ROMs & ISOs: when does it become immoral to play them?

[Deleted member 932]

I'm interested in knowing when you think it becomes immoral to play the rom of a game - mainly in regards to retrogames. Basically I believe there are 3 factor to keep in mind.

1) Do I own the original hw?
2) Do I own a physical copy of the sw?
3) Did I rip the rom myself?

Of course if all these 3 conditions are satisfied I think it's safe to say that playing a rom is perfectly fine. But what about if you own both the hw and the sw but, for the sake of convenience, you simply decide to download the rom from the internet? What if you own the game, but not the console, and you decide to download the game? Now this sounds pretty immoral, but where is the difference between doing that and, for example, asking a friend to lend you her console for just a short while, so that you can rip the game and then give the system back to her?

Additionally there are games which really don't require the original hw to be turned into isos, like for example PS1 games which can simply be extracted from the cd with a common reader. I guess that in this specific case condition 3) would translate to extracting the bios from your own PS1.

The topic becomes especially problematic imo if you keep in mind that many companies still make money out of digital resales of older titles, so I think it's important that one must own both the original hw and the original sw. As for the 3) condition, I think it really depends on the system. For instance I use my own PSP to rip images from my collection of UMDs, but in all honesty even if I own a PS1 I haven't taken the time to extract the bios from my own system.

edit: Added another option to the poll for those who think that it's not necessary to own the game if it is difficult to come by, like for example PD saga (it is implied that otherwise they'd be ok with simply owning a physical copy of the game).

 

[Heromanz]

I don't know never it's really up to you

 

[RooMHM]

More than 24h of ownership real time if you don't own it ?
That's what's written everywhere ?

 

[Thrill_house]

As long as you own the game your golden imo. Only time I feel its ok not to if its some obscure game from 20 years ago that just got a translation or something. In that case, I would say fuck it torrent that shit.

 

[White Glint]

If the game is readily available for purchase from the publisher then there's not much excuse to downloading the rom.

If the game isn't available for purchase outside from eBay scalpers then go ahead. Games are the work of dozens to hundreds of people and they were made to be played, not to be lost to time.

Fuck the cops screeching PIRACY IS ILLEGAL.

I'll take my 3 day ban now thank you.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I think it's fine not to own it if you can't buy it from anywhere but the used market. The publisher isn't losing money so who cares.

 

[Deleted member 16849]

Piracy is such a dirty term. I prefer saying 'copyright infringement'.

 

[Deleted member 14313]

I do not think you must even own the original software necessarily. You should of course own the original software if there is still a way to buy that software that will put money in the hands of the developer/publisher. But if there is no longer a way to do that then I don't give a fuck.

Edit: 100% agreed with White Glint

Edit 2: I also think copyright should go back to being ~30 years. It certainly shouldn't exceed the lifetime of the author(s).

 

[Deleted member 8861]

If it isn't offered first hand anywhere in your country, go wild

 

[Thrill_house]

If the game is readily available for purchase from the publisher then there's not much excuse to downloading the rom.

If the game isn't available for purchase outside from eBay scalpers then go ahead. Games are the work of dozens to hundreds of people and they were made to be played, not to be lost to time.

Fuck the cops screeching PIRACY IS ILLEGAL.

I'll take my 3 day ban now thank you.

Click to shrink...

This guy gets it. This right here.

 

[OrangeNova]

Aside from owning the software, I look at it this way:

Is it reasonable for me to purchase it(can I walk into an EB/Walmart and buy it)? Not at all.
Can I purchase it Digitally? No.
Then is there a way to play it through emulator? Yes.

There's also some time, I don't think I'll emulate switch, even though I own games for it until it's off the market for a bit. I'd say the 3DS is different because I don't want to squint at 240p.

 

[Vlaphor]

I would say that it all boils down to either how available it is to purchase through official store fronts.

If they want us to buy it, then sell it to us.

More than 24h of ownership real time if you don't own it ?
That's what's written everywhere ?

Click to shrink...

When I was first getting into emulation ages ago, I thought that was an actual rule and that there was a way they could tell if you didn't delete the roms.

I got up at night one time after I remembered that I didn't delete some of the roms I had downloaded that day.

 

[Benzychenz]

We're talking strictly morally?

If you own the game but download it for convenience I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Likewise, if you don't own the game but the publisher has no interest in rereleasing it on modern storefronts (as in you basically have to buy second hand off eBay) then I also wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[VariantX]

Emulators are not illegal and its fine to rip software you own yourself. I used to rip my PS1 and PS2 games and play them on PC at way higher resolutions and framerates that the original hardware could support. Games like Valkyrie Profile 2 and FFXII looked amazing at 1080p...shame it kept crashing my pc so I never really played them that far.

 

[potentialtodisplease]

I don't want to answer this question.

 

[Anoxida]

As long as you own the software you're good in some cases the game is not officially being sold anymore then no sw is fine too.

 

[Valcrist]

Morally, if a game is not available on any modern physical or digital storefront and the only other way to get it is dropping $150-1500 on eBay, I say download away. The developers of that game do not get a cent of your second hand purchase, as nice as it is to have the actual copy of the game.

Also, a lot of the rarest games are sold by people who made reproductions. I don't think you should give those people money either. Magical Chase is a good example.

 

[ghostcrew]

Even if it's an old game that isn't in print anymore, you're still technically taking a copy of something that isn't yours. I guess it's always immoral. How much you care is up to you. Everyone's got different levels and tolerances for immoral stuff. I personally think downloading a digital file from the 80s that is out of print now is very low on the evil scale. I'm fine with it. I understand that it's not mine to take and I shouldn't really be doing it though. The justification is 'because I want it, I don't think it'll hurt anyone and I don't think I'll get in any trouble'.

 

[Stiler]

To me it's simple.

1. Is the game available to buy currently via gog/steam/etc?
2. Can you buy the game from the publisher?

If no to either, I think it's ok, if a publisher doesn't want to sell the game then I believe that people should be able to use the roms/emu's to play said games.

However if you can buy the game legally via gog or other services then no it's not right.

 

[Menome]

If the game is readily available for purchase from the publisher then there's not much excuse to downloading the rom.

If the game isn't available for purchase outside from eBay scalpers then go ahead. Games are the work of dozens to hundreds of people and they were made to be played, not to be lost to time.

Fuck the cops screeching PIRACY IS ILLEGAL.

I'll take my 3 day ban now thank you.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much my opinion on it too now that I'm an adult with the disposable income to purchase things that I want. Used to indulge more back when I was in high school and could only buy games twice a year on birthdays and at Christmas, but nowadays, no excuse if it's available to buy.

 

[Deleted member 932]

Added another option to the poll for those who think that it's not necessary to own the game if it is difficult to come by, like for example PD saga (it is implied that otherwise they'd be ok with simply owning a physical copy of the game).

I think one interesting question in this case would be: suppose you download the rom of a game you own because it's almost impossible to track down a physical copy and there hasn't been a digital release yet. If in the future a digital release eventually happens, would you feel compelled to buy it even though you have already played the game?

 

[Benzychenz]

 

[VerySerious]

More than 24h of ownership real time if you don't own it ?
That's what's written everywhere ?

Click to shrink...

That's just a myth, though. There's no such thing as a "24-hour rule"; it's considered copyright infringement the moment you download it, no matter how long you keep the ROM.

 

[Treasure Silvergun]

I don't think morality really enters the picture when you decide to play a game on an emulator that wasn't officially sold to you by an official publisher.

Also, morality really isn't the point of the matter. "Is it legal?" is the only thing that really matters from a practical standpoint. Chances that you actually own the original hardware and software and that you ripped the game yourself are pretty slim, let's face it. And if you actually do, why would you want to play on an emulator, someone may ask?

Consider this: whenever Nintendo rereleases NES Super Mario Bros, they're actually selling you the ROM. From a technical point of view, it's always the same product. From a practical point of view, though, it's not. Because the emulator you use to play it on the Wii is not the same you use on the WiiU which is not the same you use on the 3DS which is not the same you use on the NES Mini. You don't buy one of these and have the right to download one of the others and play it for free.
Unofficial emulation is the same. When you create a copy of the ROM, it could be argued that you created a version of the game that wasn't sold to you by Nintendo, and to which you have no rights. Yeah, it may be technically legal, but then, how is it legal for Nintendo to keep reselling it as a different product without acknowledging that you may have an original copy from 1985?

My point: there is no "morality" involved here. There's the law, and the law may always be twisted and adapted to make the whole emulation thing illegal in its every step. Stores and websites have been shut down for this. You want to fiddle with emulators, ROMs and ISOs, you do it at your own risk. You have very few, very shaky "rights" here.

 

[Issen]

Is the game readily available on modern platforms? If not, then knock yourself out, as far as I'm concerned.

And if it is but you've already bought it and currently own it, then feel free to download it and play it on emulators or whatever. Most likely the version sold to you doesn't work right anyway. Megaman X Legacy Collection SNES skips frames and has input lag.

I don't advise doing this however as it's not legal in most countries.

 

[Cymbal Head]

Are you a cop? You gotta tell me if you are.

 

[Deleted member 5086]

The framing of this thread encourages posts that go against our policy on advocating piracy. As such, it has been closed to further replies.