Rockstar employees were working "100 hour weeks" for RDR 2 [UPDATE: Rockstar's response]

Hilarious_Bearious · Oct 15, 2018

Thorrgal said:
A bunch of jokers who never had a jod that required crunch complaining about an issue they don't understand, while the Rockstar employees are living their dream...

Is this in reference to a complain of any sort from them? Why don't we ask them what they think?

" On no, the y can't complain!! Even anonymously!""

Guys, Rockstar is not North Korea. Get a grip on reality

What an incredibly naive view of the world.

Many workers doing 12 hour shifts in horrible conditions in Chinese factories for under $200 a week are literally living their dream of escaping a life of poverty as farmers... Should we feel happy for them and not change things?

Butt-shot Katana · Oct 15, 2018

CaviarMeths said:
This should be absolutely unacceptable for employee's health and work-life balance. Game development industry is in dire fuckin' need of some strong unionization.

Unions are a good first step, but employee owned development houses should the the goal.

v_iHuGi · Oct 15, 2018

Insanity.

TemplaerDude · Oct 15, 2018

Those conditions are inexcusable

nacimento · Oct 15, 2018

TheKeyPit said:
It's not legal to work more than 48 hours in Germany.

Which is quite irrelevant for most high-prestige jobs, tbh. Anyone in big law, investment banking or strategy consulting works more than that in Germany. You could complain officially, but you would be burned in the industry.

The law is more for mid-level and low-level jobs.

MegaSackman · Oct 15, 2018

Nintendo said:
That only happened "several" times. They have normal working hours.

Just a whiplash once in a while.

Camstun187 · Oct 15, 2018

It's been said to have been an entirely healthy work environment.

They only cracked a whip from 4AM-10AM.

Next, the Trunchbull oversaw things with something called an "iron fist" and a "chokey".

Then, at 6 PM they got to do arts and crafts for 2 minutes before being served a single kernel of corn, enough water to sustain a pulse, and another 4 hours of horse ball detail until bedtime.

Odesu · Oct 15, 2018

Thorrgal said:
A bunch of jokers who never had a jod that required crunch complaining about an issue they don't understand, while the Rockstar employees are living their dream...

Is this in reference to a complain of any sort from them? Why don't we ask them what they think?

" On no, the y can't complain!! Even anonymously!""

Guys, Rockstar is not North Korea. Get a grip on reality

A letter by employees and their wifes & spouses is in the OP, there are tweets by rockstar employees embedded in this very thread.

Faithless · Oct 15, 2018

Thorrgal said:
A bunch of jokers who never had a jod that required crunch complaining about an issue they don't understand, while the Rockstar employees are living their dream...

Is this in reference to a complain of any sort from them? Why don't we ask them what they think?

" On no, the y can't complain!! Even anonymously!""

Guys, Rockstar is not North Korea. Get a grip on reality

Baby Bird · Oct 15, 2018

The sad thing is, the game is probably gonna sell a gazillion copies, make a gorillion dollars, and employees won't see most of that money.

The AAA game industry is becoming more and more of a sshithole.It kinda makes me feel relieved that, at least in this small shitty part of the world related to the hobbie I enjoy, I take no part into.

Tigress · Oct 15, 2018

ObbyDent said:
it's utopian because it's fucking impossible to get entire Mass consumers to stop buying whatever you're selling. The only way to fix everything I fucking list it is through regulation, not blaming the consumer for it

This, right here. I mean look at this thread. How many people in this thread do you think will stop buying rockstar games over this? And this is on a forum that has a lot of liberals, the type of people most likely to care about this. And we are just a small part of gamers. Even if the people in this forum boycotted r*, I bet it wouldn't be enough to make it worth their while to change.

Yerffej · Oct 15, 2018

Camstun187 said:
It's been said to have been an entirely healthy work environment.

They only cracked a whip from 4AM-10AM.

Next, the Trunchbull oversaw things with something called an "iron fist" and a "chokey".

Then, at 6 PM they got to do arts and crafts for 2 minutes before being served a single kernel of corn, enough water to sustain a pulse, and another 4 hours of horse ball detail until.

Oh shit I take it all back.

Orb · Oct 15, 2018

I don't know how we make this stop, but it has to.

delete12345 · Oct 15, 2018

Spyder_Monkey said:
Oh hell yeah it did. Of course it was in various stages of pre-production for at least a few years but the game itself took a long time to make.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/vu...redemption-2-interview-with-dan-houser.74837/

Ah I see it now.

Development began in 2010. Motion and Performance Capture began in 2013 with over 1,200 actors, 700 of which had lines.

TheUnseenTheUnheard · Oct 15, 2018

More than 500000 lines of code. I only need to write 1500 this semester.

kpaadet · Oct 15, 2018

They are just living their dream yo!!

Vicious17 · Oct 15, 2018

I know Glassdoor isn't 100% reliable, but reading through it about Rockstar makes me question the "IT'S THEIR DREAM JOB AND EVERYTHING IS PERFECT EVERYONE LOVES IT!" comments.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Rockstar-Games-Reviews-E20887.htm

A score of 3.1 and low "reccomend to a friend" and "approve of CEO" ratings don't really scream "satisfaction" imo.

For th record, I'm still buying the shit out of this game. I'm not boycotting shit.

texhnolyze · Oct 15, 2018

Tigress said:
This, right here. I mean look at this thread. How many people in this thread do you think will stop buying rockstar games over this? And this is on a forum that has a lot of liberals, the type of people most likely to care about this. And we are just a small part of gamers. Even if the people in this forum boycotted r*, I bet it wouldn't be enough to make it worth their while to change.

Yeah, Era only has like 40k+ members lol. Even if all of us boycotted the game, it'll mean nothing to them.

What needs to be done is more outlet to publish this story. It will not change the fact that crunch has happened in RDR2 development, but it might affect Rockstar's future projects. What can we do as a very small part of the internet? Share this story, the more followers you have, the better.

NHale · Oct 15, 2018

SilentRob said:
A letter by employees and their wifes & spouses is in the OP, there are tweets by rockstar employees embedded in this very thread.

They were just happy of living the dream of barely seeing their significant other for a long period of time or watching the kids get to enjoy the joy of not seeing their father or mother for more than 2 hours per week at best that they had to write a letter "complaining" so others don't apply for the same job and take their dream away from them.

Nintendo · Oct 15, 2018

10k said:
Have you tried the combat and driving in GTA games? Or played any missions?

Driving is the best in any non-racing open world. The combat is very casual I agree but not bad especially on PC. I love their linear mission design. They make every mission unique and special instead of repetitive objectives like other open world games.

DryCreek · Oct 15, 2018

MrWindUpBird · Oct 15, 2018

The amount of people waving this aside because it's Rockstar is fucking pathetic. "Crunch isn't that bad! If I can work 16 hours a day then surely everyone else is okay with it too. Who needs to see their family when you can just sleep at the office." Absolutely shameful that so many are defending this practice.

julia crawford · Oct 15, 2018

TheUnseenTheUnheard said:
More than 500000 lines of code. I only need to write 1500 this semester.

My last semester project had 10 kloc ;_;

Nerdyone · Oct 15, 2018

There are a ton of manual labor jobs where people work insane hours and nobody cares. The second that a programmer has to work a few long weeks then everyone is up in arms. I remember when I was younger, I worked two full time jobs, one in an office and one in retail after work. I did it so I could make ends meet. It wasn't the end of the world and after a few years, I stopped.

Even now when you take travel into consideration I probably work 80 a week quite often. It's really not the end of the world.

MysticGon · Oct 15, 2018

I understand every industry has its "peak season" where sacrifices are made, union or not. But I find this unsympathetic to your workers, especially if they are being forced to work that many hours, either directly or suggestively.

Nerdyone · Oct 15, 2018

Kafkaa said:
The amount of people waving this aside because it's Rockstar is fucking pathetic. "Crunch isn't that bad! If I can work 16 hours a day then surely everyone else is okay with it too. Who needs to see their family when you can just sleep at the office." Absolutely shameful that so many are defending this practice.

Then quit. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads. Many of these programmers make 6 figures as well as make bonuses.

Sabercrusader · Oct 15, 2018

It sure is nice (read, terrible), that when I explain to people why I decided not to work in the games industry, I can point to things like this.

I feel for those workers. That's crazy. I value my free time far too much to deal with that.

There's really no amount of pay in the world that would make me deal with that consistently either. The pay doesn't mean much if you can't even live your life whatsoever outside of work. I really don't care if it means games take longer to come out, developers need to unionize.

Deleted member 19218 · Oct 15, 2018

Thorrgal said:
A bunch of jokers who never had a jod that required crunch complaining about an issue they don't understand, while the Rockstar employees are living their dream...

Is this in reference to a complain of any sort from them? Why don't we ask them what they think?

" On no, the y can't complain!! Even anonymously!""

Guys, Rockstar is not North Korea. Get a grip on reality

For some people, it's not easy to find a job and when you have responsibilities like a family to care for you are extra careful to not rock the boat and get on management's bad side. So, some people don't complain. They just keep it to themselves, do their work and hope things can improve in the future. I do think though that 100 hours is an exaggeration on second thought however. I don't think that literally happened. I don't think they CEO/Director would openly boast about this if it were true.

JK-Money · Oct 15, 2018

the industry needs to change thats fucked up

Green Yoshi · Oct 15, 2018

EssCee said:
This is basically how all video games are made,

Bullshit.

Crunch only exists if the project management is bad. It leads to more mistakes and increases the development time of your game. That's one of the reasons why the game got delayed.

If a publisher releases AAA open world games every few months they learn that lesson eventually and become more professional over time.

ffvorax · Oct 15, 2018

This is so bad to hear... not gonna support this game on day one. Not that is gonna change anything... probably is more about the governement to take care about these kind of situations, this would never happen in many european countries by law.

DryCreek · Oct 15, 2018

RecRoulette · Oct 15, 2018

Sabercrusader said:
It sure is nice (read, terrible), that when I explain to people why I decided not to work in the games industry, I can point to things like this.

I feel for those workers. That's crazy. I value my free time far too much to deal with that.

There's really no amount of pay in the world that would make me deal with that consistently either. The pay doesn't mean much if you can't even live your life whatsoever outside of work. I really don't care if it means games take longer to come out, developers need to unionize.

I know a lot of folks with the same sentiment and I can't blame them.

Cornyzuka · Oct 15, 2018

Yopis · Oct 15, 2018

How long do they get paid vacation when the game wraps?

KingSnake · Oct 15, 2018

This is disgusting. From bragging about it to not hiring enough people to allow your employees to have a decent life. All brought to you by the company that will brag about making the first 1 billion from the same game as soon as it happens. Shameful. The company and all the defenders in this thread.

パンダさん · Oct 15, 2018

The game industry is fucked up.

Scuffed · Oct 15, 2018

Do they get a ton of time off after at least or right into grinding the next game?

ElNino · Oct 15, 2018

rob305 said:
This is only for a short period of time though. I've worked in investment banking clocking 80hrs regularly, sometimes towards the 100s. True, you dont have a social life during that time, but its also not the end of the world. Think of it as working on an oil rig for a month or 2, only you get to sleep at home.

My spouse works for one of the big accounting firms, and while it might not always be "the end of the world", her "working hours" is most definitely a concern that affects our day to day life in a very real way. When you need to take time away from your "work" in order to support your family, then it makes it very difficult on your spouse/kids/family. If you are single, then maybe it's easy to wave it off but the burn out is very real and impacts more people than just the employee.

Rudolph · Oct 15, 2018

I mean it sucks but your gonna buy the game and support the bad business practices anyway because no one ACTUALLY cares.

Deleted member 2620 · Oct 15, 2018

I sincerely and deeply hope we see unionization grow in game development and in general.

Sabercrusader said:
It sure is nice (read, terrible), that when I explain to people why I decided not to work in the games industry, I can point to things like this.

I'd imagine this is a common sentiment, yeah. This is where I'm at as well.

HououinKyouma · Oct 15, 2018

Ugh, I understand that crunch is a thing (and something that needs to be rectified), but bragging about it? Rubs me the wrong way.

Still though, I'm obviously a hypocrite because I'll be playing this day 1.

Deleted member 5764 · Oct 15, 2018

This is pretty fucked up, and obviously Rockstar isn't the only company doing shit like this. Stories like this frustrate me greatly, because I feel like there's not a clear course of action for me as a consumer. If I refuse to buy the game, my choice may not not be noticed and/or may send the wrong message.

ResilientBanana · Oct 15, 2018

I bet this news will not stop a single person from purchasing it.

Nerdyone · Oct 15, 2018

Hodgy said:
NO THEY DONT.

not in the UK the average is much closer to £40-50k (and thats being generous) up north its probably more likely to be £35k

also its not standard practice to get paid overtime.

QA usually get paid overtime but they generally also get paid min wage too.

no one should feel required to work over 40 hours a week, jsut because you work more than that and you can manage it doesn't mean its okay.

They are exempt employees so of course they aren't getting OT.

If they don't want to do the work then get a different job. It's not physical labor. They are sitting in front of a computer all day.

CrazyDude · Oct 15, 2018

Green Yoshi said:
Bullshit.

Crunch only exists if the project management is bad. It leads to more mistakes and increases the development time of your game. That's one of the reasons why the game got delayed.

If a publisher releases AAA open world games every few months they learn that lesson eventually and become more professional over time.

Then the majority of games developments have bad project management, because this keeps happening all over the industry.

DryCreek · Oct 15, 2018

Deleted member 31817 · Oct 15, 2018

Nerdyone said:
They are exempt employees so of course they aren't getting OT.

If they don't want to do the work then get a different job. It's not physical labor. They are sitting in front of a computer all day.

Lol

Leeway · Oct 15, 2018

I work in the animation industry which has its own set of problems but it has the same mentality when it comes to crunch as well and frankly it's disgusting.

I've barely started reading this thread and I'm depressed seeing so many people defending these practices. Needing to crunch so much for a prolonged period of time is a result of bad planning. It's not something to be proud of, period.

Nerdyone said:
There are a ton of manual labor jobs where people work insane hours and nobody cares. The second that a programmer has to work a few long weeks then everyone is up in arms. I remember when I was younger, I worked two full time jobs, one in an office and one in retail after work. I did it so I could make ends meet. It wasn't the end of the world and after a few years, I stopped.

Even now when you take travel into consideration I probably work 80 a week quite often. It's really not the end of the world.

Yes, and you probably get paid for every single one of those accountable hours.

Thebeast! · Oct 15, 2018

I bet dan goes in at 8 and leaves at 2

Rockstar employees were working "100 hour weeks" for RDR 2 [UPDATE: Rockstar's response]

Prophet of Regret

One Winged Slayer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Shinra Employee

Prophet of Regret

Took the red AND the blue pills

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account

One Winged Slayer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

User requested account closure

The Wise Ones

User requested account closure

Deleted member 31817