I really like what RJ did with TLJ, but a romance between Rey and Kylo is just dumb as fuck. I guess it's a good message to the audience that the protagonist should romance a genocidal maniac who also phisically ane mentally abused her. :/
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Rian Johnson confirms Reylo would have happened under his direction
- Thread starter Deleted member 52442
- Start date
Rey to Finn maybe, but not Finn to Rey.
But I guess in the end it doesn't matter, because genocidal space nazi wins again simply because he's a hot white boy.
What's up with the hero having feelings for and trying to redeem their main antagonist? A villain that has already killed a lot of people, including the hero's mentor figure. Yikes, dude.
Well, when you lay it all out like that you make it sound so bad.
I don't really care about Reylo as a pairing because I think Rey and Kylo Ren are more interesting as rivals who see parts of themselves in each other than lovers, but I personally don't like the vitriol people show at the mere mention of support for it.
It's not that I don't agree that a straightforward, no-awareness interpretation of it would be bad, but Rey's attraction to Kylo Ren is basically inversely proportional to how much of a space nazi he's being. The set up is basically that Rey will try to get him to change, and if he is willing to be changed, to drop this wannabe sithlord shit and get his act straight, then and only then is she willing to accept him, be that a friend or partner. It's obviously a fantastical idea of a relationship, built on the classic "I can change the cute, troubled bad boy!" dynamic, and that's a bit YA, but honestly it doesn't seem to be that far out of line with anything SW wasn't doing already.
As it played out in TRoS, it's basically the same arc as with Vader, except between lovers instead of father and son. If the issue is that the relationship is toxic or that the movie shouldn't frame the space nazi as sympathetic, fine, but then I hope it's equally applied to Vader. I don't think we should be applying a double standard just because rescuing a potential love interest from his evil urges is more of a teen girl thing than how succeeding and rescuing your father from his evil urges is a teen boy thing.
Personally, with regards to how it played out in TLJ, it works to frame their relationship romantically because the tension of the movie is whether Kylo Ren can be convinced to stop the path that he's on now. Besides just that kind of being the assumption that two attractive people with similar interests that are (presumed) heterosexual will probably be into one another, there is also the real life element that romantic partners are one of the strongest ways you can get a person dabbling with nazi ideas to exist that spiral. And with this, it also tempts Rey because while she's offering Kylo the escape from being a knock off Vader, he's offering her the familial partnership she's been hurting over all her life.
As a narrative device, dangling Reylo in TLJ worked perfectly. But the end of the movie has her closing the door on that, so what would Rian Johnson do with an Episode 9 if he got it? Well, who knows. But my hope would be she'd end up with Finn. She wants family, and he's been willing to be that since minute one of when they met.
It's not that I don't agree that a straightforward, no-awareness interpretation of it would be bad, but Rey's attraction to Kylo Ren is basically inversely proportional to how much of a space nazi he's being. The set up is basically that Rey will try to get him to change, and if he is willing to be changed, to drop this wannabe sithlord shit and get his act straight, then and only then is she willing to accept him, be that a friend or partner. It's obviously a fantastical idea of a relationship, built on the classic "I can change the cute, troubled bad boy!" dynamic, and that's a bit YA, but honestly it doesn't seem to be that far out of line with anything SW wasn't doing already.
As it played out in TRoS, it's basically the same arc as with Vader, except between lovers instead of father and son. If the issue is that the relationship is toxic or that the movie shouldn't frame the space nazi as sympathetic, fine, but then I hope it's equally applied to Vader. I don't think we should be applying a double standard just because rescuing a potential love interest from his evil urges is more of a teen girl thing than how succeeding and rescuing your father from his evil urges is a teen boy thing.
Personally, with regards to how it played out in TLJ, it works to frame their relationship romantically because the tension of the movie is whether Kylo Ren can be convinced to stop the path that he's on now. Besides just that kind of being the assumption that two attractive people with similar interests that are (presumed) heterosexual will probably be into one another, there is also the real life element that romantic partners are one of the strongest ways you can get a person dabbling with nazi ideas to exist that spiral. And with this, it also tempts Rey because while she's offering Kylo the escape from being a knock off Vader, he's offering her the familial partnership she's been hurting over all her life.
As a narrative device, dangling Reylo in TLJ worked perfectly. But the end of the movie has her closing the door on that, so what would Rian Johnson do with an Episode 9 if he got it? Well, who knows. But my hope would be she'd end up with Finn. She wants family, and he's been willing to be that since minute one of when they met.
Arguing that the story would have gone differently if a different director had the next movie is exactly why the sequel trilogy is so bad. When you plan a trilogy like that you should write an overarching plot you're trying to play out rather than having each movie make it up as it goes along and worst of all have each of them done by somebody else so there's just no consistency at all. Each movie tries to set up plot threads for the next which then discards them and sets up its own. If you just want to meander make one of those TV shows with no continuity between episodes.
He's also a neo nazi who's such an incel that he dies after kissing a woman for the first time.
I watched Rise Of Skywalker for the first time on Sunday, and it was...fine? 🤷♀️
Needed more Rose, definitely didn't need the kiss. Should have just made it a moment of mutual respect between Force-users before Ben fades away. Glad he didn't get anything like the cutesy redemption I was fearing.
Having re watched VII & VIII, and now IX over the past three weeks, I will take the Sequel Trilogy and all potential for future storytelling it creates over the trash-heap of the Prequels any day of the week.
Needed more Rose, definitely didn't need the kiss. Should have just made it a moment of mutual respect between Force-users before Ben fades away. Glad he didn't get anything like the cutesy redemption I was fearing.
Having re watched VII & VIII, and now IX over the past three weeks, I will take the Sequel Trilogy and all potential for future storytelling it creates over the trash-heap of the Prequels any day of the week.
Quite. It might be that the full interview comes out that there's more to it but from the information we have, people have made the jump from "There was a romantic aspect to Rey and Kylo's relationship" (which I agree is creepy and problematic in and of itself) to "Rian Johnson confirms Reylo would have happened under his direction!"
The more interesting development - as it was something that actually was going to happen at a point in time - is whether it would have happened in Colin Trevorrow's Episode IX. I don't view Trevorrow as a saviour - not least because his movies are dreadful - but I am interested in what he would have done differently.
Reylo is a once in a life time generation love. Ben fading away is like jack freezing to death imo
Bleh that's disgusting but not not a surprise he started that shit and JJ just concluded it. But why though why must their be romantic tension between the genocidal mentally torturing Nazi?
Really? Was that that between the mind torture or his multiple attempts to kill her and the multi-planet genocide?
Yep.
The title only further fuels the false narrative that Rian "ruined" Star Wars.
There's also the implication that Abrams felt beholden to deliver on what Johnson had set up in The Last Jedi, which... I don't know if people have seen Rise of Skywalker, but...
I don't think there's anything wrong with villain redemption stories... "But he did all these terrible things", yeah, but the villain has to do some villainous things in order to be redeemed later? Not much of an arc if he's a good guy from the beginning.
That said I can understand the argument that Kylo was too evil to be meaningfully redeemed, like blowing up the planets. Another reason why this trilogy should've been actually planned from the beginning.
That said I can understand the argument that Kylo was too evil to be meaningfully redeemed, like blowing up the planets. Another reason why this trilogy should've been actually planned from the beginning.
Ain't it the truth, dude couldn't even beat out the genociding neo-nazi.
Without more information it's impossible to know exactly what RJ would have done. There was always a romantic undertone to their relationship in TLJ because they were two sexy, lonely, virginal wizards, but the movie is fairly clear that it's Rey's (naive) vision of Ben Solo that she is drawn towards, not the monster that is Kylo Ren.
TROS tried to follow that up but did it in the most inept way possible, Adam Driver literally doesn't have a single line of dialogue after Ben turns back and his reunion with Rey just feels bolted onto the final act and all it's cartoon silliness. I don't think it's impossible to write a story where Rey and a reformed Ben have a genuinely romantic moment, but TROS just wasn't it.
TROS tried to follow that up but did it in the most inept way possible, Adam Driver literally doesn't have a single line of dialogue after Ben turns back and his reunion with Rey just feels bolted onto the final act and all it's cartoon silliness. I don't think it's impossible to write a story where Rey and a reformed Ben have a genuinely romantic moment, but TROS just wasn't it.
Wasn't Trevorrow thinking about pairing Rey with Poe? That would have been super out of left field.
'Rise of Skywalker': Trevorrow leaked script made a Rey-Poe romance satisfying in 3 ways
Reylos would have never accepted it, but could shipping Rey/Poe have actually balanced the Force?
True but it would have been better than Reylo, anything would have been better than reylo.Wasn't Trevorrow thinking about pairing Rey with Poe? That would have been super out of left field.
'Rise of Skywalker': Trevorrow leaked script made a Rey-Poe romance satisfying in 3 ways
Reylos would have never accepted it, but could shipping Rey/Poe have actually balanced the Force?www.inverse.com
The TLJ fans here had, despite railing against anyone else doing it for years, created this headcanon where a Rian Johnson-directed Episode IX wouldn't have had Rey and Ben fall in love because he's a better director than that, among other things.
This comment from the man himself confirms that actually, no, they were wrong and their deity Rian Johnson probably would've made a movie equally as bad as Abrams did because the trilogy was doomed from the start.
Ben always being on the path to redemption, Rey always inevitably falling in love with him... Ben was never going to be the Big Bad of the trilogy, despite the fact TLJ fans insisted for years that's what the movie was setting up and Abrams "ruined".
Which also means the extremely toxic, degrading and repulsive pairing of Rey and Ben was always going to be a thing. That's what happens when you let men write a trilogy with a lead character that's a woman, after all - it stops being about what she should want and becomes about fulfilling the male fantasy.
Personally I don't think Rey needed to get with anyone but, if she did, I'd have had her fall in love with Finn. Y'know, the guy that never gave up on her and wasn't a homicidal maniac that tortured, abused and manipulated her.
This means that no matter what went down with the directors, Kylo would have been going down
The title doesn't match the tweet.
The tweet does not tell us exactly here he would have taken it, though.
Pretty much but it does tell us that Rey nd Kylo's relationship in TLJ was romantic and intimate, which was an obvious reading of that film but still completely horrendous considering the film prior.
We'll likely never know where he would have taken it because he still has a working relationship with Disney.
Some of y'all bringing up the emotional and physical abuse of this relationship is part of the reason why the sequels suck but at the same time go into other threads saying the prequels are so much better when Anakin puts Padme through so much and she says "There's good in him" as she's fucking dying because of him and going through all the fucked up shit he's done over the past 3 years.
Yeah, nostalgia doesn't play a huge factor in bias here at all.
Yeah, nostalgia doesn't play a huge factor in bias here at all.
I'm going to be generous and assume that Disney mandated that Kylo had to be redeemed before the end of the story. This is after all a shitty remake of the original trilogy when all is said and done.
However, I cannot imagine Disney requiring Kylo and Rey actually being a romantic couple. I think that's all on the directors.
Also, you can blame RJ for many things, but at the end of the day the seeds for everything shitty about this trilogy were planted by JJ. Kylo killing Han, Fin in a coma, Luke being a hermit, you name it JJ set the scene. He threw out Michael Arndt's script and reversed course by focusing on the original cast instead of the newcomers. What could have been...
However, I cannot imagine Disney requiring Kylo and Rey actually being a romantic couple. I think that's all on the directors.
Also, you can blame RJ for many things, but at the end of the day the seeds for everything shitty about this trilogy were planted by JJ. Kylo killing Han, Fin in a coma, Luke being a hermit, you name it JJ set the scene. He threw out Michael Arndt's script and reversed course by focusing on the original cast instead of the newcomers. What could have been...
There was def tension in Episode 8. But I doubt his version would have been as dumb as the kids in episode 9.
It's hilarious and tragic that all the good stuff coming related to Star Wars (like the Disney+ shows), though as excellent as they can be, are all going towards that shitshow of a trilogy. I gotta say though, I have major problems only with the last one. I think JJ and Rian did a good job on TFA and TLJ, while both of them did some mistakes in respecting each other's views on the trilogy.
