And thus, P5 takes the top spot BABBBBBBBY
And thus, P5 takes the top spot BABBBBBBBY
To trick your enemies, you first have to trick your allies
It has to work one of these times right?
I disagree with both this statement and the overall bandwagon notion that Torment's narrative is forever untouchable.No other game on the entire list comes close to PS:T's writing and story.
I found Planescape mind-numbingly frustrating to play, and Drakengard had an equally great story.This doesn't make any sense, Drakengard is a hack-and-slash that is mind-numbing boring and completely devoid of any fun sub-system. Planescape is a dialog-focused RPG and it's pretty great at it, it features a lot of ways to complete quests, good reactivity and sub-systems that actually work well with its main gameplay system.
I disagree with both this statement and the overall bandwagon notion that Torment's narrative is forever untouchable.
I found Planescape mind-numbingly frustrating to play, and Drakengard had an equally great story.
Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Bloodborne, Nier: Automata, Witcher 3, Fallout: New Vegas.
That's not cherry picking, that's a major cut-scene in the game. In fact, dancing and singing about the Watchers is how Mana spends 90% of her screentime.
Kswinston mentioned a few pages back that we'd be getting the top 10 tomorrow in two groups one early on and another later on so there can be time to discuss them in between each set being released.
I'm well aware, but that's not reflective of Drakengard's story as a whole.That's not cherry picking, that's a major cut-scene in the game. In fact, dancing and singing about the Watchers is how Mana spends 90% of her screentime.
Yup. Sounds about right.Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Bloodborne, Nier: Automata, Witcher 3, Fallout: New Vegas.
Well... "towns/dungeon/overworld exploration" is a new addition to your definition.Action is a game type- there are expectations in the game mechanics, flow and controls. Same with strategy and sports. Sports could be a theme of an RPG, but for it to be an RPG it needs to have the characteristics and mechanics that make that experience an expected one when it is classified as an RPG. Dragon Age Origins and Lufia 2 are both clearly RPGs- they meet the expectation of the experience of playing an RPG. They both have similar characteristics- time in menus (battle, dialog, party management, quest/journal, map, inventory) as well as towns/dungeon/overworld exploration.
When you sit down to play a game and you feel like playing an RPG, both of those games meet that expectation of experiences. Someone may not like the style/art/atmosphere of WRPGs and prefer games like Lufia 2, but that is neither here nor there.
BGS first person RPGs like Morrowind and Fallout 3 are both perfect examples of RPGs- quest journal, dialog (which are most certainly menus), skills, equipment, map, lorebooks, terminals, VATS (which as you said can be avoided, but still too much of an ideal mechanic for many situations not to use). What is one of the most popular mods for Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim? UI mods, because you're frequently in menus. In Fallout you can change the color of the PIP-Boy, because you're looking at it a lot.
I'm not making a case that menus deserve more love or anything absurd like that, I'm merely pointing out that it would be beneficial to understand the main characteristics that defines what an RPG is to us instead of just flailing around classifying every single game that has leveling/progression/inventory an RPG. We just don't talk about or think too much about time in menus when we think about or discuss RPGs, but that's really a defining part of the game flow that makes it the experience we expect when we feel like playing an RPG.
It's not so much about adhering to tradition for the sake of tradition, but for making sense and being consistent with how we classify things for the benefit of making sense when discussing them. I'll go back to my example of the person asking for an RPG recommendation- is that even a valid question when the answer could be either Borderlands or Chrono Cross? Those two games are entirely disparate experiences, with entirely different focuses.
I hope you are using the pluralis maiestatis 'cause I do not think that menuing is seen as such an integral part of RPGs and their feel by most. I personally see the use of menus in RPGs as necessary evil. It is used because a non menu approach is not possible or to difficult yet.but that's really a defining part of the game flow that makes it the experience we expect when we feel like playing an RPG.
Sure, but under that same general broad RPG feeling that encompasses Lufia and Dragon Age I would also feel Borderlands.When you sit down to play a game and you feel like playing an RPG, both of those games meet that expectation of experiences. Someone may not like the style/art/atmosphere of WRPGs and prefer games like Lufia 2, but that is neither here nor there.
Just elaborating on this point because people have been conditioned to think that going through a thousand gratingly, painfully slow random turn-based battles per game is somehow more intellectually stimulating
That's true. Random encounters is probably one of the less intellectually stimulating things in the genre. They're almost never a real threat to the party and most of the decision making on player's part is purely mechanical and not in any way tactical (especially true in case of classic turn-based JRPGs). I guess this type of encounter design can work well if done with more dynamic combat system (something like Resonance of Fate) but even then it can be annoying after awhile.Just elaborating on this point because people have been conditioned to think that going through a thousand gratingly, painfully slow random turn-based battles per game is somehow more intellectually stimulating
What's worse is that I've seen plenty of people on these boards acknowledge that the predictable, slow battles aren't intellectually stimulating but argue that they are still important to 1) extend playtime and 2) weed out players unwilling to "work" for rewards.
someone never met malboros, I seeThat's true. Random encounters is probably one of the less intellectually stimulating things in the genre. They're almost never a real threat to the party and most of the decision making on player's part is purely mechanical and not in any way tactical (especially true in case of classic turn-based JRPGs). I guess this type of encounter design can work well if done with more dynamic combat system (something like Resonance of Fate) but even then it can be annoying after awhile.
Octopath traveler having random battles is part of the reason why I haven't bought it yet honestly.
Pillars of eternity and Divinity:OS (1 haven't played 2 yet) are waaaaaay to low!
With just one passive skill that you can get very quickly, you can go though a full map with only one encounter. Sometimes none if the path is not too long.
Going to play D:OS2 soon since i only have a PS4, can't wait! As for PoE, i might overvalue it's quality simply because that type of game is very rare to have on PS4. But i really loved it and can't wait for PoE 2 on PS4.D:OS2 is way better, and deservedly higher on the list. PoE is great, but as time goes on is probably going to be less regarded. It's a solid 8/10, but some parts of the game are a bit weak and I didn't feel it was best in genre in any aspect. It's not quite an instant classic, and now that CRPGs are back in vogue (somewhat) its spot as the herald of new CRPGs is going to be taken by other games. D:OS2 is a solid contender at the moment, or PoE 2 with all DLC (and some patches) might be it.
The battles are great in this game... it doesn't annoy me to battle them.Octopath traveler having random battles is part of the reason why I haven't bought it yet honestly.
Well I give up on The Witcher 3 due the battle sustem after brought the game lolI can't believe that some people might not buy a game juste because of a detail such as random battles. I'm glad to be a forgiving gamer.
Then Pokémon Let's Go might sell more than I thought.
Re: Divinity Original Sin, I always see the same "the story is goofy" comment. That's honestly the main reason I've put off playing it and its sequel, despite everything else being appealing. I'd just find it kinda hard to get into a CRPG if the story doesn't really take itself seriously.
Like, is it on par with characters like Shale in Dragon Age Origins or is it more, I dunno, Paper Mario/Fable levels of goof?