Remember when Legend of Dragoon was a cult favourite and it can't even make the top 100 here.
Probably because it's terrible.
Remember when Legend of Dragoon was a cult favourite and it can't even make the top 100 here.
Nothing you just said has anything to do with people who bought the game finishing it, apart from play time.You don't think the completion rate is because it's a decade-old remaster of a PS2 game a lot of people already played, with no advertisement, no 3 mobile games that advertises the FF12 cast constantly, no post-launch support, no enhanced release, no movie and with a playtime of 40 hours as opposed to 23 ?
Nothing you just said has anything to do with people who bought the game finishing it, apart from play time.
All I was saying was XV appeals to a mainstream audience more because action combat is more intuitive than having to script AI.
Me: Maybe fewer people beat XII because it's harder to figure out between battle system and quests.
You:"Yeah but FFXV has a tie in cell phone game."
Like... huh?
Opinions. From the same range on this list, I'd say that FF VIII, FF X, DQ VIII are even less "essential".
You're talking about marketing and sales and I'm talking about game difficulty. You're just angrily typing random words now without any regard to what anyone is actually saying and bringing up stuff from other threads. I mean, I guess if you want to be FFXII's FrontierGamer then have funFF15 is a modern game with a modern marketing strategy that is wholly centered around the FF15 universe in order to keep the game relevant. FF15 is a game as a service that intends to sell you content that is mostly contingent on the player investing time into the game, FF12 is not. You're using data to make the wrong conclusions about both games. But this is to be expected from someone who said FF12 has no story a few hours ago in another thread.
honestly doesn't deserve it, hence why it is a cult favoriteRemember when Legend of Dragoon was a cult favourite and it can't even make the top 100 here.
It's a good game, the gameplay is fun and original and the art style is nice (even if the Wii limitations are evident with the more realistic style). The story is meh (the characters are not bad at all) but you will enjoy your time with the game.I have the box of last story on my windowsill and still I keep forgetting it exists.
FFX at 28 ahhhhhhh yeah. Deep breath. What a stinking pile of utter shit to be at the 28th best RPG of all time.
Worst in class voice acting check. Script from the bottom of tween idiocy check. Battle system boring as fuck check. Horrible music scattered throughout check. Linear as hell check. Has one of the worst end boss fights in an RPG. Just awful with cheesy, terrible rock music to boot. Every time Wakka or the lead lady open their mouths I want to drown myself. OMG that voice acting is so damn bad. Auron was the only saving grace.
Maybe the Japanese voices are better IDK, but I won't ever be coming back. It took me two plus years just to finish it.
This is why I didn't even vote. Nostalgia and awful taste combining to make a really weird list. Most lists are like this, but every now and then I have hope something will change.
It seems like a lot of good games are getting the shaft here, and it's pretty obvious the average voting age is really young.
Not a problem though. Just thought I'd comment.
If a Luna games does not make this list it is invalidated by objective standards of taste :).
Remember when Legend of Dragoon was a cult favourite and it can't even make the top 100 here.
Admittedly not that many, but those I have, have aged horribly and I would not recommend them to anyone but the most dedicated/hardcore. Hell, even Phantasy Star I probably wouldn't recommend to most players even if it was incredible at the time and aged relatively well. Ultra-retro games just are not very accessible or "essential" anymore.How many RPGs from that period have you played to make such claim?
That would make tons of games on this list also not RPGs... And those gear loadouts are extremely defining of the character at the moment you are using them. It's a different way to customize your character than raw stats, but deciding that it's "stat growth and nothing else" that determine what's an RPG or not seems arbitrary.I disagree. For me, RPGs are about developing, defining your character(s) as you progress through the game. In MHW, it works in reverse. The longer you play the game, the less defined your character will be because you have tons of gear that can be swapped out on the fly and which drastically alters your playstyle.
Sigh.
Sure, but voting for your favourites would have helped bump off games you like less by propping up games you like more. Like my Demon's Souls example. It beat FFVIII (a game I hate) by 2 points, and those 2 points were factored by the fact that Demon's Souls was my highlight vote (giving it 4 points instead of the normal 2 for the rest of the list).My main complaint is seeing FFX on another best of list. Making a resetera list with that game off of it logically would not have solved my problem.
Now now, negative/dissenting opinions are fine to have and he's allowed to criticize the games he wants. But I agree he should have voted because just coming here to bitch without having voted is very poor form.So no time to vote but plenty of time to shitpost a game you don't like. Glad you could join the ongoing discussion your opinion is very valuable. /s
One can easily argue that old WRPGs like Wizardry, Ultima and Bard's Tale are essential for their historical value. I agree they don't play well in today's standard. I couldn't get into those games.Admittedly not that many, but those I have, have aged horribly and I would not recommend them to anyone but the most dedicated/hardcore. Hell, even Phantasy Star I probably wouldn't recommend to most players even if it was incredible at the time and aged relatively well. Ultra-retro games just are not very accessible or "essential" anymore.
I got to the Yakuza 0 part of the playlist, and the voiced song didn't make much of an impression on me, but the three instrumental ones were exactly my kind of jam.
This is why we need more contemporary RPGs! Driving rock soundtracks! :P
FFX at 28 ahhhhhhh yeah. Deep breath. What a stinking pile of utter shit to be at the 28th best RPG of all time.
Worst in class voice acting check. Script from the bottom of tween idiocy check. Battle system boring as fuck check. Horrible music scattered throughout check. Linear as hell check. Has one of the worst end boss fights in an RPG. Just awful with cheesy, terrible rock music to boot. Every time Wakka or the lead lady open their mouths I want to drown myself. OMG that voice acting is so damn bad. Auron was the only saving grace.
Maybe the Japanese voices are better IDK, but I won't ever be coming back. It took me two plus years just to finish it.
This is why I didn't even vote. Nostalgia and awful taste combining to make a really weird list. Most lists are like this, but every now and then I have hope something will change.
It seems like a lot of good games are getting the shaft here, and it's pretty obvious the average voting age is really young.
Not a problem though. Just thought I'd comment.
If a Luna games does not make this list it is invalidated by objective standards of taste :).
oh you mean the optional stuff you can ignore and still beat the game?You forgot some of the most annoying side quests ever found in a game. Capturing beasts, chocobo 0:00, and lightning dodges. I'm still baffled by the love this game gets.
And at least FFX actually has some good side quests/activities to go along with the (justifiably) criticized ones.oh you mean the optional stuff you can ignore and still beat the game?
I mean Xenoblade 1's sidequests are beyond garbage but we still love that game to death, because they are optional
Also once again this isn't a thread ranking the best RPG's. It's what people consider essential to play.
If you only played a remake of Dragon Quest III, you shouldn't be making claims that NES version was better than Phantasy Star.I do want to raise Dragon Quest III, though. It was the best DQ at that point, which basically means it was the best JRPG as well. It sold over 3 million copies on NES alone, which makes it the best selling RPG of that era by a huge margin as well as a true social phenomenon in Japan. And it's perfectly enjoyable even today, at least the SNES remake I played is.
Some of us were on vacation! I would have loved to have given Unlimited Saga its sole pity vote.Now now, negative/dissenting opinions are fine to have and he's allowed to criticize the games he wants. But I agree he should have voted because just coming here to bitch without having voted is very poor form.
oh you mean the optional stuff you can ignore and still beat the game?
I mean Xenoblade 1's sidequests are beyond garbage but we still love that game to death, because they are optional
As far as I know this thread considers all versions of a game to be one, and uses the earliest release date.If you only played a remake of Dragon Quest III, you shouldn't be making claims that NES version was better than Phantasy Star.
You should just complain about Blitzball instead as all the things you mentioned are completely optional. That's like saying Bloodborne isn't that good because chalice dungeons are disappointing.You forgot some of the most annoying side quests ever found in a game. Capturing beasts, chocobo 0:00, and lightning dodges. I'm still baffled by the love this game gets.
Yeah, the voting here does. The way your post was worded, I thought you said it was the best JRPG when it first came out.As far as I know this thread considers all versions of a game to be one, and uses the earliest release date.
You should just complain about Blitzball instead as all the things you mentioned are completely optional. That's like saying Bloodborne isn't that good because chalice dungeons are disappointing.
You should just complain about Blitzball instead as all the things you mentioned are completely optional. That's like saying Bloodborne isn't that good because chalice dungeons are disappointing.
That's not my opinion, just the impression I got over the years on the Internet. DQ3 is the best DQ among the first three, I don't think there's any arguement about that. DQ was the predominant JRPG franchise around 1988, the sales number speaks for itself. DQ3 would easily win best JRPG from 1988 and prior, if the poll is held in Japan.Yeah, the voting here does. The way your post was worded, I thought you said it was the best JRPG when it first came out.
Complaining about individual games being on the list is odd, for sure. I think once people realise this list is a popularity contest, rather than an essential "reading list" of RPGs, then it becomes a lot more palatable.
Agreed, the game was average for me until the wedding. From here goes downhill, I never finished the game even if I think that I was only a few hours from the ending.Everything after the wedding is just a rushed mess in my opinion. I just have to look at Seymour to realize how he just becomes a full-on crazy villain because the writers were out of ideas to pad the game further. I have never seen a FF tank so hard in its final stretch, the final dungeon was not even one.
A best RPG list would probably look exactly the same. The niche classics get votes because they have small but dedicated fanbases, and people vote for their favorite games regardless of what the title of the list is.I almost feel like this should be posted at the top of every page
This list can't really be "wrong", it's a subjective thing by design. Honestly a "best RPG" list would be infinitely more boring in my opinion, too. At least with this I'm getting that nudge to play some niche classics I might have ignored, forgotten, or missed altogether.
Complaining is half the fun! I hope the thread goes in full meltdown mode by the time FFVI beats FFVII and we finally settle that once and for all
FFX at 28 ahhhhhhh yeah. Deep breath. What a stinking pile of utter shit to be at the 28th best RPG of all time.
Worst in class voice acting check. Script from the bottom of tween idiocy check. Battle system boring as fuck check. Horrible music scattered throughout check. Linear as hell check. Has one of the worst end boss fights in an RPG. Just awful with cheesy, terrible rock music to boot. Every time Wakka or the lead lady open their mouths I want to drown myself. OMG that voice acting is so damn bad. Auron was the only saving grace.
Maybe the Japanese voices are better IDK, but I won't ever be coming back. It took me two plus years just to finish it.
This is why I didn't even vote. Nostalgia and awful taste combining to make a really weird list. Most lists are like this, but every now and then I have hope something will change.
It seems like a lot of good games are getting the shaft here, and it's pretty obvious the average voting age is really young.
Not a problem though. Just thought I'd comment.
If a Luna games does not make this list it is invalidated by objective standards of taste :).
I have a weird relationship with VIII. I initially played it on my pc which was a little too slow to run the game at a normal speed. Never got very far that first time, but I did fall in love with the soundtrack (Eyes on me is amazing) and my all time favorite Final Fantasy FMV: the dance.I guess I just can't understand the need to complain and invalidate a list purely because a couple games you dislike ranked. The reason this thread exists is to encourage people to try more RPG's by letting posters vote for what they find important and explaining why. Ignoring all the hard work and effort just to whine about a position doesn't contribute to the intention of this thread. If a game you like didn't place as high as you wanted then use that to start a discussion on why you personally value that game and why it's such an important RPG to try. For me personally I wanted VIII to rank higher(I'm still very happy with it's position) but instead of complaining I wrote my feelings on why I recommend the game and encourage others to give it a chance. That resulted in a couple posters wanting to give the game a try. This is why it's important to discuss games you feel deserve more attention because you never know who you will convince to try something new.
Also once again this isn't a thread ranking the best RPG's. It's what people consider essential to play.
True, although there are more accessible ones that most people haven't tried. I think using some early console ones as a gateway to more complex computer ones is a good idea. I already mentioned AD&D: Treasure of Tarmin on Intellivision but there's also Dragonstomper on 2600 Supercharger. If you can look past the simple graphics, it's much more accessible to play for the average person than something like Wizardry. And there are ARPG dungeon crawlers; Gateway to Apshai doesn't take a lot to learn how to play or require a ton of time to enjoy.I don't think that it is controversial to say that many 80s RPGs have an accessibility issue, even if the underlying design is still strong
Yeah, the Mark III sold like shit in Japan so it probably wouldn't do well in a poll. The quality of its RPGs is a separate thing, though.That's not my opinion, just the impression I got over the years on the Internet. DQ3 is the best DQ among the first three, I don't think there's any arguement about that. DQ was the predominant JRPG franchise around 1988, the sales number speaks for itself. DQ3 would easily win best JRPG from 1988 and prior, if the poll is held in Japan.
I don't think that it is controversial to say that many 80s RPGs have an accessibility issue, even if the underlying design is still strong.
Some people can power through the lack of modern QoL stuff, and still have a blast. Many cannot. So they are a bit of a mixed bag in terms of recommendations.
Luckily on the PC side of things, GoG sells many 80s classics for dirt cheap. So if you grab one during their major sales, you are at worst out the price of a coffee if you cannot deal with the lack of modern gaming conveniences.
It's interesting to realize how Japan loves FF7 much more than VI but enthusiast circles in the west are more biased towards 6. Even SQEX knows as much (but won't do any decision based on that data anyway)
Jade's 1000 Words > Koda Kumi's 1000 WordsFFX-2 has:
- A way, way better battle system
- More focused party configuration
- Dress spheres
- Koda Kumi
- A massage minigame
FFX has:
- Underwater love scene FMV
I think the facts speak for themselves.
Yeah... this is my first time seeing one of these threads, and I was hoping it would be more of the latter. My gripes with FFX are all very much subjective, but objectively I don't see anything "essential" about it. Not even in the FF line-up.Complaining about individual games being on the list is odd, for sure. I think once people realise this list is a popularity contest, rather than an essential "reading list" of RPGs, then it becomes a lot more palatable.
Personally, I think that is selling FFVII short and putting it in a convenient box.
But...I'm pretty sure VI usually comes out on top in these threads? Could be wrong.