Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
I know your intention isn't to compare BotW and RDR2, but there will probably be some thinking that is the intent. For me personally, I found it difficult to continue with the clunky controls on PC and over-the-top animations, to the point I just stopped playing despite having a ball with the mission story content and overall story themes. I'm not going to bash my head against mechanics that feel like they were overtuned for the sake of realism just to get to the good story bits.

In a way, that's why I prefer open world games like BotW, in how it presents the world and it's mechanics to the player for them to choose what to do. That would not suit Red Dead mind you, as they are two entirely different concepts, but it does give me more freedom to enjoy everything.
 

giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,653
I'll let you in on a secret. Every open world game's gameplay is at odds with its story. Every single one of them. It's inherent in the genre.
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,785
I have probably a few hundred hours in it together on PS4 Pro and PC. The game has a whole lot of issues.
  • I agree with OP about the story beats being repetitive and later on it escalates too quickly.
  • When the game's main and side missions are done there is not much to do in the world beyond cause mayhem. You can't join the world's economy beyond being a hunter. There are no random generated bounties or maybe selling stuff from your farm and so on. You also run out of stuff to buy and scarcity is generally not a problem in the game.
  • Aiming on consoles is incredibly awful. If there is ever a game that needs gyro aiming it's this. It's hard to configure so hitting things without a ton of auto aim is possible at short and medium range. No problem on PC.
  • Worst auto aim implementation I have ever seen. Automatically move your reticle? Come on, that's awful. Just invisibly curve the bullets to the target so the player does not feel they are not in control.
  • The law is way too aggressive. They will send a 10 man bounty hunter mob after you for a $10 bounty. Those guys are willing to risk their lives for the per man bounty equivalent of two shots of whiskey in a Saint Denis bar.
  • There is not enough chance for de-escalation once the shooting starts, again due to the limited AI and aggressive lawmen.
  • The enemy AI when shooting starts seems to be basically "rush the player". Go to the end of the docks in Saint Denis and start shooting and you will see lawmen coming over and over again until the bodies are stacked 100 men high. It needs more nuance like law fleeing and regrouping if too many die or calling in the cavalry or something like that.
  • The law is always stacked against the player. NPCs don't follow the same laws at all. If someone starts a fight, the law will arrest you.
  • The use of letterboxing in cutscenes without understanding that narrower aspect ratio should also mean wider field of view. It's just such a shit choice with zero benefit to the games visual as it marks things as cutscenes instead of organically shifting from gameplay. On ultrawides it even pillarboxes which is just stupid.
It's a very ambitious game with a whole lot to like about it and it's a wild ride until everything is done.
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,785
That being said, I still love this game, and it's story is still heaps better than pretty much every other AAA game. It took me 80ish hours to get through my first playthrough, and that's longer than I even play a lot of games. But I think all it's little problems dug in with players and that's what caused the drop off. Not to mention the fact that Rockstar had a perfect opportunity for at least 2 story based DLC (Charles and Sadie) but instead decided to keep pushing that Red Dead Online bullshit down our throats. I think if Rockstar was more realistic about the game's flaws, released a DLC/an Expansion pack, and was actually dedicated to continuing to support the game, more people would be vocal about loving the game.

I agree. I would have loved to be able to play as Sadie at least and obviously a RDR1 remake is also something that is obvious considering the full RDR1 map is in there. But since porting that game over would be a big task in itself I understand that it might still be something Rockstar is working on. I just hope they sell it as a DLC rather than a new game so you can play RDR2 and RDR1 back to back.

The online stuff as the money maker has been terrible as it has ruined GTA already. I have zero hopes of GTA VI being anything but something to push people to its online mode.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
The O'Driscoll Gang, Leviticus Cornwall, Agent Milton, and Angelo Bronte are supposed to be some of the antagonists in the game, but they are used very sparsely and certainly not enough to leave an impression. I could also write a whole essay on why Micah is a terrible character that adds nothing to the story, but all I will say for now is that the conflict is most interesting between Arthur and Dutch. Micah seemingly only exists to remind players that Dutch is bad actually, damaging the existing subtleties of his character. In general, Micah being as cartoonishly evil as he is makes for a strange addition to the cast of (mostly) well-rounded, nuanced characters in Dutch's gang.

The other issue I have with the story is how the gameplay feels at odds with the story that is being told. This is a game about redemption, yet even by early Chapter 6, Arthur is still going along with Dutch's kooky plans, getting tons of people killed for dubious reasons. It was kind of funny that Arthur was portrayed as having a righteous anger towards Strauss in booting him from the group during chapter 6, as if usury was a substantially worse sin than Arthur's murders. I don't have a problem with excessive amounts of violence and death in "grounded" stories like this, nor am I one to whine about ludonarrative dissonance. But in this game, it feels like Arthur's character progression is antithetical to the cookie cutter shooting galleries that serve as the core gameplay until the game's very end. Even though the reasons for that violence change from aggression to defending himself and his community, some sequences, like the killing of Leviticus Cornwall, still rubbed me the wrong way.

Whatever the reasons, I know I can't be the only one who feels this way about RDR2's initial acclaim versus the post-release perception. Red Dead Redemption 2 did not go on to be the unanimous game of the year after all. God of War was not my personal GOTY that year either, but I think it being picked over RDR2 highlights just how quickly public perception changed in only a few months.

I don't want to end this post on a negative note, so I will say that RDR2 is an achievement in many other areas. As mentioned before, the performances are incredible. On a technical level, this is the most impressive game I've played in my life. Despite being a game for the 8th generation of consoles, I don't anticipate games with this level of detail and fidelity to be normalized for a while.

So what do you think of Red Dead Redemption 2 these days, Era? I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say, especially if you do love RDR2 the way it was initially reviewed.
The game follows a structure that Rockstar have used frequently:

- The hero forced to do what he's doing under an external pressure (russian mob in GTA4, mafia debt in GTA5, Pinkerton in RDR etc.)
- He wants to give up, but the more he's trying the deeper he sinks ("I don't want to be a gangster no more so I do gangsta stuff to escape.")

And sided with that professional contradiction, a key element of his past needs to be deciphered :

- A betrayal during war in GTA4, a betrayal after a heist in GTA5, the reason of a disband in RDR, an ambiguous war medal in LA Noire etc.
- The hero is always there because of this past story,, and so he needs to solve/confront it to escape his present.

But in RDR2 both process are interrupted and not carried until it becomes a real turn-over. We won't understand what really happened in Blackwater, and Arthur is sent to death just to hang up with RDR1.

So while I agree that the game is an outstanding achievement, the reason why people can felt crumpled without knowing clearly why seems because of dead angle or weakness in the writing, the best exemple would be on interpreting Dutch's motivations.
 

Danielsff

Member
Aug 5, 2019
112
Red Dead Redemption 2 is an absolute masterpiece. Best visuals of last gen (and still is), incredible chatacters (Arthur Morgan is the best character ever), the world is so natural, filled with secrets and easter eggs.
I understand the game is really slow, but i think this is part of it.
I loved it end it clicked me, and will love it forever.
 

Z-Brownie

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,936
i droped the game for think the game was too boring, picked it up last month to try it again and, surprise, my opinion did not change ... can't enjoy it :(
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
all the bits where it has to be a game just suck.

It's far too long
there's no progression
the camp means nothing
money means nothing despite it being the character's driving force
every animation feels like sludge
every missions feels like some ps2 bottom of the barrel on-rails event
there's no use for stealth
the bounty system makes no sense
the world is empty and something you really only realise when you see the same events happen over and over. It's like living in the Truman show.
and the multiplayer sucks
 

Jasper

Member
Mar 21, 2018
740
Netherlands
The loud voices on ERA claiming the game is garbage are not the target audience but have not yet realized that just because they are 'gamers' not every single video game has to appeal to them.

It's the ultimate Western-but-as-a-video-game and it absolutely gets every single aspect of being a Western right. The sound, the pacing, the world, the characters. So ******* good.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,241
One of the best games ever made period.

30fps and playing with a controller was really bad but after the PC version with silk smooth 60fps and mouse aiming it's perfect.
 

bes.gen

Member
Nov 24, 2017
3,536
definition of mixed bags
great visuals, nice world building, terrible controls, on the rails horrible main missions
 

Castia

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
636
Brilliant game I loved it

The only game in years that actually felt next gen in terms of graphics etc, masterpiece in my opinion.
 

Bait02

Member
Jan 5, 2019
645
Overall I think the story is great (actually one of the best I've ever seen in game) but I agree the game drags itself too long in the end, but the problem isn't really the story here, it's more about repetitive gameplay.
At the end I think RDR2 raised the bar in many aspects, mostly related to open world interactivity and world building in general, plus narrative is overall great.
On the other hand, the core gameplay loop and the design of the main quest are good but not great; on those aspects I think Rockstar did a better job overall on GTAV.
I don't have a precise ranking for this gen yet....but I thnk RDR2 would sit probably in my top10 but not in the top5.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,383
It's immersive to a fault. I love the game but damn Rockstar, let me play the missions the way I want to, don't be so rigid in your design.
 

mingo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
821
London
I hated the game, it never got going for me. From start to end it was boring and had poor gameplay and controls. I waited for that moment for the game to click and it never did. The only thing that was good was the graphics and the somewhat serviceable story.

I havent played RDR1 but his game has put me off that and I certainly won't be getting RDR3 whenever that will be announced and released.
 

killuglypop

Member
Jan 9, 2020
990
It's up there with GTAV for me as the greatest open world map in a videogame. My only issues were with the controls and the fact you have to walk at a snail's pace through your camp. It must be a nightmare for speedrunners lol
 

ByWatterson

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,302
"Era Is Not the World," the thread.

It's one of the most brilliant pieces of game design, ever.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,137
Chile
The other issue I have with the story is how the gameplay feels at odds with the story that is being told. This is a game about redemption, yet even by early Chapter 6, Arthur is still going along with Dutch's kooky plans, getting tons of people killed for dubious reasons. It was kind of funny that Arthur was portrayed as having a righteous anger towards Strauss in booting him from the group during chapter 6, as if usury was a substantially worse sin than Arthur's murders. I don't have a problem with excessive amounts of violence and death in "grounded" stories like this, nor am I one to whine about ludonarrative dissonance. But in this game, it feels like Arthur's character progression is antithetical to the cookie cutter shooting galleries that serve as the core gameplay until the game's very end. Even though the reasons for that violence change from aggression to defending himself and his community, some sequences, like the killing of Leviticus Cornwall, still rubbed me the wrong way.

His redemption is not stopping his own misdoings. His redemption is learning how much of a waste the whole life was and giving John and Abigail a chance at life.

I really love this game, it's one of the best of the generation.

The game is built to be a slow burn, really wants you to soak in and take it all in a deep breath. Really wants to appreciate how much society has changed for better and worse, and how much it still hasn't changed for better or worse. The gameplay being missions of shooting galleries makes sense, it's a western action game. It's a bit restrictive, but it's conpensated in how open the world is
 

cfer50

Member
Oct 31, 2017
388
Melbourne Australia
Humans in front of computers created this game and it is so uncanny it got me pinching myself. How many games leave you feeling this particular brand of existential dread? It's amazing.

Also Unshaken by D'angelo had me shook
 

Aria

Member
Nov 21, 2019
548
Im pretty much an open world addict and this is the first game I just haven't been able to complete and to put it into perspective I completed Two Worlds.

Everything is just a slog. I tried going back to my save a week ago after not playing for a year. Spent a mission walking through a swamp whilst a big crocodile ate someones leg and in the end someone said just give him some garlic. I saved the game turned it off and reflect on the 20 minutes I just spent on the game. Slowly rode to the mission point, cutscene. Active cutscene on horse where Dutch is a dick. Do something boring as shit that usually always goes wrong. Repeat the cycle. I wonder if I went and replayed the first I would feel such apathy towards it now?
 

Snarfington

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,936
It's really not what I expected from the game, but it is very special. For all its flaws, R* took the expectations of their usual mass market open-world game and put a bunch of mechanics and gameplay choices that feel like a modernised Shenmue in a lot of ways. It's really a fascinating thing.
 

BUNTING1243

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,728
One of the best games ever made. My favorite open-world. Some of the best characters in the medium. The boldest, weirdest, and most sucessful mechanical designs I've ever seen in a AAA game.

And honestly, this is often a complaint with the game, but I really loved the combat and movement.

I don't like Grand Theft Auto, I fucking love Red Dead
 
Nov 24, 2018
90
I like everything about it, other than actually playing it which is a total slog.

Bought this on release and still haven't finished the story. Played it solidly for the first month or so and hit a wall with it, where I was putting hours into the game and not making any progress which seemed to be progressing the story.

Reached chapter 5 around this time last year and haven't gone back to it since. I should probably get to it in the next four months before my first child arrives or I will never see the end.

I
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,050
My biggest issues with the game are:

  • Some main missions are too linear
  • Animations are too long
Pretty much loved everything else. Also CP 2077 clusterfuck made me appreciate R* details even more. They are in a different league.
 

DaleCooper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,853
The game always felt utterly overcooked.

Why should I care about Arthur Morgan's body vitals?
Why should I care about hyper-realistic weapon holstering with the horse?
Why should I care about hyper-realistically browsing a magazine when shopping? (Insane idea)

The game is beautiful, but was never very compelling to play.
 

EndlessNever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
It's one of the best told stories in video games. The gameplay doesn't match it, but it does just enough.
 

Eidan

AVALANCHE
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,618
The game is an absolute masterpiece. Not a single complaint lobbed in the OP resonated with me, and really just reinforces the idea that a lot of people really will never "get" RDR2.
 
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oliverandm

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,178
Copenhagen, Denmark
I didn't start the game particularly satisfied. In fact it took me almost 20 hours before I felt truly engaged. However, when it got me it really had its claws in me and I couldn't put it down. Arthur Morgan is one my favorite characters of all time.

 

Beefsquid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
USA
It's one of the most beautiful game I've ever played, and there are some amazing characters, but the gameplay kept me from ever finishing it. There were just so many things to keep track of, it was overwhelming.
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
I struggle to stay engaged with it. I will pick it up from time to time and after a couple of sessions with it, I'll put it on the back burner because I end up feeling overwhelmed. The world map is huge and getting to new areas on horseback can take forever especially when you come across all these little emergent situations. And with the fast travel system being sort of cumbersome (as it was in RDR1), the game can run to a crawl at times.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't mind the linear mission structure. I didn't mind it in GTA V either. When there's so much freedom surrounding the missions it kind of feels nice to get into something that is a bit more guided and story-driven. I think the peak design is something like Metal Gear Solid V, but that game has shitty open world activities outside of the missions so maybe it's hard to ask for both.
 

xpownz

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Feb 13, 2020
2,224
Is there any other game that the main character has a handrawn journal that he entries every single animal he killed and location he visited with such poetry and art vision?
Also, in this other game, does the other protagonist heirs this journal to keep on with its legacy?

This, alone, made this game superior.
 

Krakatoa

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,108
I enjoyed my time playing the game overall, but the one thing that really bothered me was the animation. Getting on off a horse felt like a lag fest, as did drawing your gun, actually any movement. IMO if they removed all this crap the game would feel so much smoother.
 

Eidan

AVALANCHE
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,618
Is there any other game that the main character has a handrawn journal that he entries every single animal he killed and location he visited with such poetry and art vision?
Also, in this other game, does the other protagonist heirs this journal to keep on with its legacy?

This, alone, made this game superior.
Reading Arthur's journal after he becomes ill is harrowing at times. God this game is so good.
 

xpownz

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Feb 13, 2020
2,224
Reading Arthur's journal after he becomes ill is harrowing at times. God this game is so good.

It is an experience unlike any other. Organic and natural, credible, the handwriting is amazing, Arthur's pain in words is stunning.
It's something I've never seen before and don't think I will soon, not in an AAA title with that scale.

Also, RDR2 side-dialogues are otherworldly
 

kingslunk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
987
It's one of the best games I've ever played and I think it's the bench mark for visuals for open world games right now (The Last of Us 2 beats it for me in terms of overall visuals), but story-wise I didn't think it quite held up to that of 1. I also think it's lacking the highs that 1 reached. One of my all time favorite moments in gaming is entering Mexico for the first time, and I wouldn't say that anything came close to that in 2 (maybe the mansion was...). Red Dead Redemption 1 was my favorite game of it's generation though, so it had a lot to live up to.


2 is still an absolute masterpiece though.



I wish it would have gotten an Undead Nightmare-esque expansion, but it's clear that Rockstar's priorities are elsewhere right now.



If we're comparing it to BOTW, I think RDR2 is a much better game. I enjoyed it a lot more.

RDR2 on PC > TLOU2 in terms of overall visuals. RDR2 on pc is easily the best looking game out
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,323
I think Rockstar's gameplay and mission design get in the way of its story and world design. The aiming and shoot is awful and it sucks that so many missions devolve into killing hundreds of enemies. The O'Driscolls are our closest rivals and yet they have maybe a thousand member army vs. our like 15 gang members?
 

rafox

Member
Apr 28, 2020
501
The mission design and the actual gunpay are both misses for me in the gameplay department.
The story overall is a little repetitive and like you said, it stretches way too much. Also, the writing isn't that great either, a lot of times is just characters saying what they are thinking/feeling and all the side characters are charactures. Also there's a mission where you literally have to beat the shit out of a mentally ill person!!!!! That's crazy and offensive as fuck.
BUT even with all those flaws, there are some really tender moments in the camp, some very unique interactions in the open world, and the world itself is very reactive and has A LOT of unique content, which makes the game overall a joy to play, I liked it a lot.
Also, Arthur is such a great character!
 

Eidan

AVALANCHE
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,618
The game also has an all time great score. Fleeting Joy perfectly encapsulates the rising dread and since inevitable decline that will soon engulf the gang.

 
Oct 30, 2017
9,329
For me it's the best game last generation and definitely in the Top 10 of all time.. if not Top 5.

Masterpiece in every way.