• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Recently discovered a medical study regarding the safety of chiropractic, study states "further investigations are urgently needed" regarding safety

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
I've recently found this medical study regarding the safety of chiropractic, the study states that life threatening complications had been reported when it deals with "spinal manipulation" and the conclusion states that "further investigations are urgently needed" when it comes to the safety of chiropractic:

3pSNh7X.png


Study Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rtOOzEXN0FZGCFMuFfaf9YbXv3h3aKp5/view

Since, this study is clearly stating that chiropractic needs more safety evaluations, why are health insurance companies allowing coverage for chiropractors? I was looking through my provider directory for my MediCare Advantage plan and they have chiropractors listed.
 
reconceptualize

reconceptualize

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,509
Somewhere in Zanarkand
1. It's one study. In a field like that, you'll need more than one study to create any kind of educated theory.

2. The study is from 2009. There's a decade of research out there that's since been published, and I suspect these authors have also continued work in the field. Why not look up what else they written and published in that time?

3. Compare this article with other articles in the field. You'll probably find more people continuing their research interest along with others rebutting it; that'll give you a far better picture of this particular article's worth.
 
SolicitorPirate

SolicitorPirate

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
Assuming this is the seminal study in the area (I doubt it, for reasons stated by the poster above), there's a pretty big research to practice gap. Depending on the field, it can take an average of up to 17 years for research to start informing practice in a real world setting.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
If someone has access to medical studies, could they look to see if there's any recent medical studies when it deals with the safety/establishing the safety of chiropractic?
 
fontguy

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,171
I find it hard to believe that chiropractors, of all people, aren't on the up and up.

 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Can someone explain exactly why are health insurance companies allowing coverage for chiropractors? I was looking through my provider directory for my MediCare Advantage plan and they have chiropractors listed.
 
GYODX

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,258
Chiropractic is quack science. That fact should be common knowledge, but it isn't.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
SolicitorPirate said:
Sorry, maybe I'm dumb but I'm not entirely sure what the question is. Are you asking if people can just look up studies?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Many studies are locked behind paywalls that costs a lot of money, I was wondering if anyone has a subscription to these medical studies and could look to see if there's been more recent studies on the safety/establishing the safety.
 
mugurumakensei

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,355
KSweeley said:
Can someone explain exactly why are health insurance companies allowing coverage for chiropractors? I was looking through my provider directory for my MediCare Advantage plan and they have chiropractors listed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

because so many buy into it and other "alternative medical care" in the US over proper medical care
 
Stinkles

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I have an acquaintance who said my spine surgeon was a fraud and a good chiropractor was what I needed for a massive disc lesion. However she also believes in homeopathy despite having been forced to admit it's nonsense and moving the goalposts to powerful placebo effect.

I suspect my back injury was seriously exacerbated by the one chiropractor I did visit.
 
neon_dream

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
KSweeley said:
Can someone explain exactly why are health insurance companies allowing coverage for chiropractors? I was looking through my provider directory for my MediCare Advantage plan and they have chiropractors listed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Insurance companies also pay for acupuncture.

They pay for it because people want it, not because it works.
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,464
JB1981 said:
It doesn't look safe but seeing that there's seemingly very few problems that result from these adjustments than it would seem the method is relatively safe?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From the SBM link above:
Up to half of patients report short-term adverse effects from manipulation, such as increased local or radiating pain; and there is a rare but devastating complication of neck manipulation: it can injure the vertebrobasilar arteries and cause stroke, paralysis, and death.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It (spinal manipulation) can be on par with physiotherapy for lower back pain but aside from that it's total bunk.
 
SatoAilDarko

SatoAilDarko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,836
I've tried to tell my sister about how Chiropractry is pseudo-science but she swears by the benefits she gets from it during her pregnancy and now in the weeks afterward. It's apparently a big relief to her.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
I just feel sad so many people go to chiropractic "schools" and get certified, etc. Why waste your life on unproven nonsense? Might as well become a tarot card psychic.
 
Gunny T Highway

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,079
Canada
I went to a chiropractor years ago. At first it helped with my back problems. Then eventually it got to the point where every other session my back hurt like hell. I just had him do the adjustment that made me feel good and never went back since.
 
hey it's that dog

hey it's that dog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,118
RustyNails said:
I just feel sad so many people go to chiropractic "schools" and get certified, etc. Why waste your life on unproven nonsense? Might as well become a tarot card psychic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People are credulous. And I mean the people learning the discipline. They don't have proper training in scientific thinking. The fact that the field exists is evidence enough for them that it's real. And then they make money and patients say it works, perpetuating the nonsense for the next generation of quacks.
 
Robochimp

Robochimp

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,678
Fitzgerald said:
On a related note, why is osteopathy a thing in the US?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's an alternative path to become a physician . The pathology group I deal with has pathologists that are DOs instead of MDs. They're clinical pathologists so they don't really have patient contact, they look at microscope slides all day. The DOs do the same work the MDs do.
 
Thordinson

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
hey it's that dog said:
People are credulous. And I mean the people learning the discipline. They don't have proper training in scientific thinking. The fact that the field exists is evidence enough for them that it's real. And then they make money and patients say it works, perpetuating the nonsense for the next generation of quacks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The sad part is that many of the Chiropractic schools require quite a bit of physical science courses.

Fitzgerald said:
On a related note, why is osteopathy a thing in the US?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

While OMM is pretty bunk, it's alternate path to practice real medicine. They are actually medical doctors.
 

Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
I was having a problem with my neck because I had been bent over a computer for a long time. I tried a chiropractor for a little while and it totally fixed me up. After I stopped my brother brought up a bunch of reasons why he was skeptical of chiropractors. I wasn't particularly moved by any of them, but at the same time I kept remembering that my chiropractor was always dressed like he was going out to a nightclub.
 
Last edited:
TRS8088

TRS8088

Member
Oct 27, 2017
826
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I had someone recommend a chiro to me before I realized what they were. Weirdest shit ever. They made me watch a video that was about how regular medicine was ruining people and the "subluxation" they do will put you back the "way God made you". That phrasing was a huge red flag, obviously. Then quizzed me on it afterwards. Was like some bizarre brain washing technique.

I got home and googled subluxation and promptly canceled the many, many daily sessions they wanted me to go to. It really felt like an insurance scam. But Blue Cross would have covered most of it.
 
I am a Bird

I am a Bird

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,273
Ya shocker swiftly jerking your neck and spine can be dangerous. There are a lot of studies that show repeated neck alignments can weaken and damage arteries in your neck. Its something I would recommend avoiding. But I'm a bird and its been a while since I checked up on it, so I could be out date on the matter.
 
Paquete_PT

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,349
I would never do those neck manipulations, heard a good amount of situations gone wrong with spinal injury
 

Deleted member 15737

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
Fitzgerald said:
On a related note, why is osteopathy a thing in the US?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because you dont know what you're talking about? Look at the training MD (medical doctor) and DO (doctor of osteopathy) receive. Look at what they are cleared to do after completion.

DO receives equal (or more) training and is cleared to do everything an MD can.

You can call OMM bunk, doesnt bother me. But that's one tool, and MANY DOs never use it. They still have all other medical options. Chiro has basically one option, they use it for everything, and claim it can cure things it cant.

Comparing a DO to a chiropractor is an insult to doctors.
 

Deleted member 2585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
The general consensus I hear is that high velocity manipulation can be unsafe. There's a bunch of case reports about vertebral artery dissections and other major adverse events from high velocity spinal manipulation. All of the faculty at my school are against seeing chiropractors. However, there isn't very much definitive evidence for or against chiropractic visits causing adverse effects, mostly because there hasn't been a huge amount of research done. There's also little evidence to actually support the use of spinal manipulation, so it goes both ways.

UpToDate basically recommends spinal manipulation only when nothing else has worked.
14CrEti.png


As for the difference between chiropractors and DO's, DO's are actually medically trained (and can specialize into other areas of medicine). As far as I know, the methods DO's use are generally low-velocity and try to minimize the risk of permanent and transient damage. Chiropractors use much less subtle methods and have significantly less medical training.

Also:
15TV0XX.png
 
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,568
I go to the chiro whenever i sprain a muscle, not for the adjustments though, they'll treat you with massage/electro therapy/heat, they also are able to identify which muscle/ligament/tendon is sprained.

I dont know if it helps heal the muscle faster but the pain relief is evident as soon as your done. Its just a $25 co pay on my insurance. If my back or neck was fucked up id go to the doctor.
 
vitamind

vitamind

Member
Nov 1, 2018
219
Fitzgerald said:
On a related note, why is osteopathy a thing in the US?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well as a physician who sparingly uses certain techniques (more muscle related stretches/soft tissue techniques) as an adjunct...some patients get relief. I don't really do any HVLA ("cracking") techniques on anyone but my wife who actively requests it.

Erheller said:
As far as I know, the methods DO's use are generally low-velocity and try to minimize the risk of permanent and transient damage.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Your mileage will vary. I again don't really use them unless a friend/family member really wants it. Not because I'm worried but more so because I can likely achieve similar results doing other things. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 
vitamind

vitamind

Member
Nov 1, 2018
219
Nihm said:
I agree DO's are 100% legit, but I've never quite understood their relationship to Osteopathy, which is not 100% legit. I've only ever had DO's as an adult, and I've never once heard that shit mentioned. The only difference I've noticed is less enthusiasm for prescriptions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are things that a lot of DOs while in school outright believe are BS/eye roll. How heavy your school is on certain areas of OMM differ.
 

Deleted member 15737

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
Nihm said:
I agree DO's are 100% legit, but I've never quite understood their relationship to Osteopathy, which is not 100% legit. I've only ever had DO's as an adult, and I've never once heard that shit mentioned. The only difference I've noticed is less enthusiasm for prescriptions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A DO receives training in osteopathy. It's mostly a combo of stretching, feeling, and massaging. Most DOs dont depend on it much. But it's a tool they can use if they think it might help. And I believe there are cases where it can help.
 
Trup1aya

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,476
KSweeley said:
Can someone explain exactly why are health insurance companies allowing coverage for chiropractors? I was looking through my provider directory for my MediCare Advantage plan and they have chiropractors listed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's crazy man. I won't go near a chiropractor, but I know so many people who swear by it. I can't understand why insurance would cover it if it wasn't somehow saving them money.
 
jelly

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Isn't it just air popping between the joints that people think somehow is fixing them back to an original position. It's bizarre. Can your body be put out of alignment? Wouldn't it a muscle, tendon problem?

I wouldn't do it but know a few people that go though and think it helps, temporarily apparently.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,807
I'm genuinely surprised in this day-and-age how many people still talk about chiropractors as if they aren't scam artists. Because they are.
 
Masoyama

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
KSweeley said:
Can someone explain exactly why are health insurance companies allowing coverage for chiropractors? I was looking through my provider directory for my MediCare Advantage plan and they have chiropractors listed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Health insurers are lobbied to include dangerous and bullshit medicines like chiropractic and against funding known therapies that don't bring in as much cash.
 
The Argus

The Argus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,291
My dad is a surgeon and was the head editor of The New England Journal of Medicine and has told me that it is no secret that Chiropractic "care" is an absolute sham. An extremely dangerous one at that. They are not medical doctors. If you went to a real doctor for your bones you would be at a orthopedic practice or physical therapy, not some strip mall quack.

The reason he told me this all was when I asked if he knew any good ones in the city after an accident I was in. He just laughed and got me in touch with someone who actually helped and was covered by my insurance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.