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AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Maybe he does have inside info on this topic, but I'd like Dusk Golem to clarify his stance re: the power debate. I think we all expect better resolution from XSX, but you're still talking about a very minor delta. So a game natively running at 4K on XSX will run just shy of that on PS5 (theoretically), but it's going to be extremely difficult to tell unless you're looking quite closely at the image, which most people do not do if you look at normal viewing distances relative to TV size.

It almost sounded like he had inside information on something that hasn't been revealed. The only thing I could think of is that Microsoft is going to increase the clocks while Sony isn't. But even if that gets Microsoft to~13 TF, the gap would still only be 27% which is smaller than the 40+% we saw this generation.

Furthermore, the CPU and Memory are basically a wash this gen, when they certainly WERE NOT last gen (well, CPU was mostly). The original Xbox One had a significant memory bandwidth disadvantage, and the PS4 Pro also had a significant disadvantage compared to Xbox One X, but the memory bandwidth for PS5 vs XSX seems to be fairly evenly matched relative to compute performance.

Regarding cost, I don't see the SSD being a huge difference in terms of price. Sony has less of it, for one, and their approach is certainly very innovative but I don't think it will mean it is prohibitively expensive. I think the difference in RAM setup for XSX will have a larger price delta than the SSD cost, but that's pure speculation. I suspect those higher bandwidth chips come at a pretty high price which is why MS opted to not be completely unified. Sony ultimately decided to go with one big pool of slower RAM instead. You have to think that MS also probably has a higher cost of miscellaneous components like power supply, cooling, etc. due to a (theoretically) more power hungry APU.
I was surprised to see that DF now has almost a million subs. I think their face/offs do matter more than we might think, and if they simply say one version is better than the other, i dont think people will care if the difference is 18% of 50%. there are also the worst case scenarios to account for, like CoD Ghosts last gen which ran at only 720p on the x1 and double the resolution on the PS4 despite only a 40% boost in tflops. RDR2 ran at native 4k on the x1x and around half the pixels on the PS4 Pro despite the fact that the difference in tflops was only 44%.

I remember Cerny pointing out how Ray tracing is very bandwidth taxing, and sony has a 25% less of it and it has to share that with their fancy new 3d audio engine. microsoft not only has 44% more CUs which is where the ray tracing hardware resides, but they also have more ram bandwidth to feed it. ray tracing should in theory scale with clocks so it should still be a 18% difference in rt performance, but i think we will definitely have games where we see worst case scenarios like cod ghosts and rdr2.

I am not saying that the Xbox winning face/offs will convince everyone to switch to the Xbox. Just pointing out that this is how MS expects to compete against sony's advantage. Despite making all new mistakes this gen, Phil has at least ensured that he has the most powerful GPU in a next gen console. Same goes for Lockhart, once again, he has ensured that he will have the least expensive console on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if Lockhart was revived last year because Sony was going out there buying up exclusives.

Besides, if Sony was so confident in the power of their console, I dont think they would go out on this spending spree. While I also dont think that the delta between the two is that massive, clearly Sony thinks its substantial enough to lock in these mega exclusives to ensure people dont jump ship.

Lastly, DF face/offs are going to be extremely interesting next gen. XSX might have better resolution, but is DF going to take into account the 3d audio enhancements or adaptive triggers in the PS5 controller? I would argue that in games like CoD knowing if a player is walking right behind you or having triggers with proper tension when pulling triggers is far more valuable than a few more pixels. But I am not sure if DF would focus on those things. They should but i dont think they will. There is also the UI enhancements which supposedly launch you straight into races from the home menu within seconds in WRC. If you could launch into a round of Warzone matchmaking right from the PS UI without even launching the game, thats going to be very appealing.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,609
Seattle
In what universe is an 18% advantage "not much better"?

The same universe where 129% faster raw SSD transfer speeds won't make difference? Everyone knows the paper specs, and next to nobody here really knows for sure what it will mean in practice for titles on both consoles. We've had months of hashing out the specs in relevant threads, and clearly that doesn't really change anyone's mind. Nor is it the specific topic posed by this thread, which has a whole lot more to do with how different strategies and business models will stack up for consumers known what we do about market share and mindshare at the moment.

Frankly, comparisons are going to make a whole lot more sense once we start seeing games running on both consoles. Not having seen a single forthcoming game running on Series X hardware makes it extremely difficult to draw any conclusions about how the specs on paper translate to actual games.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,463
Pencils Vania
I find this "they are not trying to compete with each other anymore" mentality really weird.

If thats the case then for example we wouldnt have a standoff right now with who is going to announce their price if Microsoft doesnt see Sony as a competitor.
They still want to try and sell as many Xbox consoles as possible. No one is saying they are giving up.

They want the XSX to be in step with or cheaper than the PS5 if possible. They are doing their best to make sure it has a respectable launch performance.

Microsoft just don't seem to be pulling out all the stops like previous gens to try and directly battle Sony in sales units. They are instead focusing on what they need to do to achieve their goals and visions for the Xbox brand.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
I'd say a significant "receipt" was Halo Infinite and we saw how that turned out....

It's no wonder people think what they do when there's been little to no Series X gameplay.
Frankly with the Xbox game showcase supposedly not even showing anything running on Xbox Series X, it's hard to gauge any relative game performance, but even so what Dusk is suggesting here breaks any factual information we have from the specs sheets. Hence I compared it to the secret sauce arguments in 2013.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,959
In what universe is an 18% advantage "not much better"? If you told me one car is 18% faster than another car, I'd say that's a lot fucking faster. If I had to choose how to play a multiplat game, I'm picking the console that's 18% faster.

I get that this forum is very pro Sony, but facts are facts. The XSX is a significantly more powerful system.

You don't need to be so defensive. As a percentage my understanding is it's less than the tf value difference of PS4 to Xbox One. And much less than the difference between the Pro and One X. I would consider both of those cases only slight improvements with the One X being the greater difference obviously.

As said in my original post Tf aren't everything and there may be other factors that lead to the advantage Dust Golem is hearing about, and again there isn't a point in bickering over numbers when we'll get to see the games soon.
 

Jerm411

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,740
Clinton, MO
Frankly with the Xbox game showcase supposedly not even showing anything running on Xbox Series X, it's hard to gauge any relative game performance, but even so what Dusk is suggesting here breaks any factual information we have from the specs sheets. Hence I compared it to the secret sauce arguments in 2013.

Agreed, I fail to see where this huge gap will come from...
 

brokenswiftie

Prophet of Truth
Banned
May 30, 2018
2,921
if 18% is significantly more powerful
then PS4 must have been considered next-gen compared to the Xbox one with 50% more GPU power
 

JoJoBae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
Layton, UT
Saying that don't mean much .
You have say how it will work in games and what the diffidence could be .
For eg can you see the diffidence in Res if one system 18% lower when this gen was 40% and some could not tell and the higher you go the harder it get.
Power is a selling point for sure but you still have to show it and not everyone looks DF.
My counter question to all of this theoretical stuff: Is the percentage difference truly that small when we're dealing with processing loads this large? Think of everything a base PS4 can pull off and the processing load that can take. It's not small. This is all armchair and I have no idea. I just wanna play games man.
The same universe where 129% faster raw SSD transfer speeds won't make difference? Everyone knows the paper specs, and next to nobody here really knows for sure what it will mean in practice for titles on both consoles. We've had months of hashing out the specs in relevant threads, and clearly that doesn't really change anyone's mind. Nor is it the specific topic posed by this thread, which has a whole lot more to do with how different strategies and business models will stack up for consumers known what we do about market share and mindshare at the moment.

Frankly, comparisons are going to make a whole lot more sense once we start seeing games running on both consoles. Not having seen a single forthcoming game running on Series X hardware makes it extremely difficult to draw any conclusions about how the specs on paper translate to actual games.
And this. I know we need to have stuff to discuss. And I know this would get debated to death anyway. I remember all the Wii U secret sauce and XB1 hidden GPU stuff. It was exhausting. We've not seen enough from either system to really draw a conclusion.

And I know people predisposed to Sony at the moment are gonna wanna point out Ratchet or whatever for PS5, but that was dropping frames like a mofo and the dimension jumping was cool but you could see the system struggling to load things during them. I want some good performance and I ain't seen it much yet. Once we're closer to release on everything I expect it all to start looking and running much better.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
My counter question to all of this theoretical stuff: Is the percentage difference truly that small when we're dealing with processing loads this large? Think of everything a base PS4 can pull off and the processing load that can take. It's not small. This is all armchair and I have no idea. I just wanna play games man.
If you want to be this reductive and shallow, the GPU difference between base PS4 and XB1 was worth 2 Xenos Xbox 360 GPU's purely from TF performance. Certainly you wouldn't suggest TLOU2 looks 2 Halo 4's tier better than something like Gears 5 on base XB1?
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,968
Besides, if Sony was so confident in the power of their console, I dont think they would go out on this spending spree. While I also dont think that the delta between the two is that massive, clearly Sony thinks its substantial enough to lock in these mega exclusives to ensure people dont jump ship.

This line of reasoning don't ever make sense .
If you don't do it someone else will that is how the market is and we know others are trying .
MS is trying to compete by doing the same thing Sony is countering them with a bigger budget .
Content is one thing MS and Sony will be fighting directly for compare to other things they doing different .
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
I was surprised to see that DF now has almost a million subs. I think their face/offs do matter more than we might think, and if they simply say one version is better than the other, i dont think people will care if the difference is 18% of 50%. there are also the worst case scenarios to account for, like CoD Ghosts last gen which ran at only 720p on the x1 and double the resolution on the PS4 despite only a 40% boost in tflops. RDR2 ran at native 4k on the x1x and around half the pixels on the PS4 Pro despite the fact that the difference in tflops was only 44%.

I remember Cerny pointing out how Ray tracing is very bandwidth taxing, and sony has a 25% less of it and it has to share that with their fancy new 3d audio engine. microsoft not only has 44% more CUs which is where the ray tracing hardware resides, but they also have more ram bandwidth to feed it. ray tracing should in theory scale with clocks so it should still be a 18% difference in rt performance, but i think we will definitely have games where we see worst case scenarios like cod ghosts and rdr2.

I am not saying that the Xbox winning face/offs will convince everyone to switch to the Xbox. Just pointing out that this is how MS expects to compete against sony's advantage. Despite making all new mistakes this gen, Phil has at least ensured that he has the most powerful GPU in a next gen console. Same goes for Lockhart, once again, he has ensured that he will have the least expensive console on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if Lockhart was revived last year because Sony was going out there buying up exclusives.

Besides, if Sony was so confident in the power of their console, I dont think they would go out on this spending spree. While I also dont think that the delta between the two is that massive, clearly Sony thinks its substantial enough to lock in these mega exclusives to ensure people dont jump ship.

Lastly, DF face/offs are going to be extremely interesting next gen. XSX might have better resolution, but is DF going to take into account the 3d audio enhancements or adaptive triggers in the PS5 controller? I would argue that in games like CoD knowing if a player is walking right behind you or having triggers with proper tension when pulling triggers is far more valuable than a few more pixels. But I am not sure if DF would focus on those things. They should but i dont think they will. There is also the UI enhancements which supposedly launch you straight into races from the home menu within seconds in WRC. If you could launch into a round of Warzone matchmaking right from the PS UI without even launching the game, thats going to be very appealing.

I think that enthusiasts have an interest in comparisons of popular games, but I don't believe that substantially sways their decision. This is doubly true of casuals. 1 million DF subscribers vs. the entirety of the PC, Xbox, and PS userbase is fairly small. Ray tracing scales fairly well with resolution/compute. I wouldn't think too much into it being that big of a difference.

Sure, certain games will slant more to XSX or PS5 (relative to the power difference)...that's just the nature of game development. Very few people would look at a 2160p vs. 1960p difference and say that the latter is unacceptable and that they will buy one system over the other for it. It's ultimately going to come down to preferred ecosystems, friends lists, exclusive games, services, and pricing.

And undoubtedly this power difference, even though small, is a way MS is competing. They have been extremely vocal about it at every opportunity they have, it's a feather in their cap so to speak, but IMHO it's not going to be a meaningful driver of userbase this gen. Sony's spending spree has nothing to do with them being worried about their position on power. You are really making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Sony is getting these deals because they believe it puts them in a competitive advantage and they have the market position to do so. Simple as that. MS would be doing the same if they had the same sort of leverage.
 

JoJoBae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
Layton, UT
If you want to be this reductive and shallow, the GPU difference between base PS4 and XB1 was worth 2 Xenos Xbox 360 GPU's purely from TF performance. Certainly you wouldn't suggest TLOU2 looks 2 Halo 4's tier better than something like Gears 5 on base XB1?
Joking, but can we adopt this to go with the how many gamecubes? But no, you're right. We did need DF to show us all the relatively minute differences between systems with such a big gap this time out.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
This line of reasoning don't ever make sense .
If you don't do it someone else will that is how the market is and we know others are trying .
MS is trying to compete by doing the same thing Sony is countering them with a bigger budget .
Content is one thing MS and Sony will be fighting direct for compare to other things they doing .
Well, i expected Sony to continue what they did this gen. Timed CoD DLC. Timed japanese exclusives like FF7. Exclusive content like destiny exotic weapons, strikes and i guess spiderman.

What's changed is that Sony is going all out according to some journalists and insiders. they are buying megaton exclusives that used to be third party this gen. we will have to wait and see what these are, but i cannot recall any big multiplatform games going exclusive to PS4 this gen. this in uncharted territory here. or rather we are going back to the PS1 and PS2 days.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
Joking, but can we adopt this to go with the how many gamecubes? But no, you're right. We did need DF to show us all the relatively minute differences between systems with such a big gap this time out.
Exactly, so if you apply the same 18% GPU difference between the PS5 and XSX, what would you expect? 15-25% difference in rendered pixels for multiplatform titles on average, yes? That's what everyone who isn't a fanboy is suggesting. Hence Dusk Golem saying that XSX is far more powerful and multiplatform games run much better is interesting because if I'm allowed to be blunt, it has no basis based on the facts we know and sounds like wishful thinking or delusions at worst. Taking this gen for example, the usual resolution divide was 900p vs 1080p, which aptly shows the 44% GPU difference between XB1 and PS4. Magical performance doesn't come out of nowhere
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
37,877
Like I can see a healthy skepticism about MS actually overtaking anybody, but thinking they're worse off than or even as bad off as 2013 like I've seen some say? Damn, let me into your reality. Do they have a vaccine there yet?

MS is way better than in 2013. They were a mess at the time in terms of priorities, leadership, pricing, tech, even before we talk Kinect. I'd hope no one thinks that.
An issue though is that PlayStation is a lot better than they were in 2013. They're firing on all cylinders rn. And their 1st couple ps5years don't have an indication of slowing down yet

And to make things worse, Nintendo is the complete polar opposite of the nonfactor they were in 2013.
I know people try to talk different markets, etc and all that, but at the end of the day the Switch is a video game console that will be on sale in November and December and will cost ~300 dollars, plain and simple.

From that angle, you can argue MS's path is as or more difficult, even though they're doing better
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,968
Well, i expected Sony to continue what they did this gen. Timed CoD DLC. Timed japanese exclusives like FF7. Exclusive content like destiny exotic weapons, strikes and i guess spiderman.

What's changed is that Sony is going all out according to some journalists and insiders. they are buying megaton exclusives that used to be third party this gen. we will have to wait and see what these are, but i cannot recall any big multiplatform games going exclusive to PS4 this gen. this in uncharted territory here. or rather we are going back to the PS1 and PS2 days.

It not that they change is that they now have the budget .
You really can buy up stuff when you losing 4 to 5 billion on hardware sales like PS3 gen and this gen was suppose to be death of consoles and money low.
So yes we can say we going back to PS1\PS2 Sony .
MS is now competing against early Sony and not PS3 or even PS4 Sony , the one that sold 100 million console when they first came out .
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
Well, making appealing games that people want to play worked out for Sony from the latter half of the PS3 and this entire gen, so MS needs to get their first party into gear, first and foremost.

That said, I think MS are aware they can't beat Sony's HW sales WW, and therefore are banking on turning people into Game Pass-subscribers. I think they'll do just fine and find their place in the gaming market.
 

TuMekeNZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
Auckland, New Zealand
I think all 3 companies will be fine and while they are competing, they can all thrive if positions don't greatly change next gen.
PS5 will no doubt be the biggest selling console and keep bringing in mega $$ for Sony.
Xbox is now available in more places via Game Pass and xCloud so should be a good money maker regardless if XSX sells big numbers or not.
Nintendo will just keep doing their thing in being an essential system to own next to your PC/PS5/XSX.
 

hubertuss03

Banned
Oct 9, 2018
1,182
Yep. i feel like people here are getting too cocky lol. When those DF comparisons start rolling in after launch and MS performs better in every single one of them, the narrative is going to change real fast.

RAM bandwidth, gpu power, and a small advantage in cpu power will all but ensure MS never has a worse performing game. Watch Dogs RT will be a great first test because unlike other games that might run at 4k 30 or 60 fps locked, watch dogs with ray tracing will not run at native 4k, let alone native 4k 60 fps.

And while Sony has a fancy SSD, i dont see any devs taking advantage of it for cross gen games beyond faster loading. When people see that cod runs best on XSX, they will naturally gravitate towards it.

Of course, thats why sony is talking so much about the 3d audio and controller features because they know thats where they will have the advantage.
Maybe you forget but actually from 3 years all 3p games run better on XOX than Pro.
And people dont gravitate towards it naturally.

My tip for you: stop dreaming.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Well, i expected Sony to continue what they did this gen. Timed CoD DLC. Timed japanese exclusives like FF7. Exclusive content like destiny exotic weapons, strikes and i guess spiderman.

What's changed is that Sony is going all out according to some journalists and insiders. they are buying megaton exclusives that used to be third party this gen. we will have to wait and see what these are, but i cannot recall any big multiplatform games going exclusive to PS4 this gen. this in uncharted territory here. or rather we are going back to the PS1 and PS2 days.

Sony didn't have the luxury early on. I remember MS grabbed some pretty big timed exclusives just because the perception of the Xbox brand was predicated on the 360's legacy. At the time people kept questioning whether Sony could even compete due to the PS3. Remember Titanfall? Tomb Raider? Those were big properties that they had exclusivity on.

Those deals are drying up/gone because it's abundantly clear by now, 7 years on, that Playstation has a huge market advantage. This legacy (much like the 360 gen prior to it), makes it easy to convince third parties on an exclusivity deal knowing that PS5 may very likely have a >2:1 advantage.

Basically their huge market position allows them to sign exclusivity deals much cheaper than Microsoft can going forward into the next generation. And they are seemingly OK with taking that advantage. We'll see how it shapes up.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,463
Pencils Vania
I think all 3 companies will be fine and while they are competing, they can all thrive if positions don't greatly change next gen.
PS5 will no doubt be the biggest selling console and keep bringing in mega $$ for Sony.
Xbox is now available in more places via Game Pass and xCloud so should be a good money maker regardless if XSX sells big numbers or not.
Nintendo will just keep doing their thing in being an essential system to own next to your PC/PS5/XSX.
It does seem pretty much this straight forward this gen. We'll see how it plays out.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,463
Pencils Vania
Maybe you forget but actually from 3 years all 3p games run better on XOX than Pro.
And people dont gravitate towards it naturally.

My tip for you: stop dreaming.
For instance, I personally know that my PS4 Pro performance wise is pretty crummy compared to Xbox One X. But I wanted a console that could support my 4K TV, and I was already tied into Sony's PS4 ecosystem, I also wanted their exclusives. If I ONLY cared about power, I would gotten a One X.

The big multiplatform games I cared about mostly ran the same on both pro models, except One X would usually get a higher native res. Only time it was noticeably worse was Saints Row Remastered. Frame rate is substantially worse on PS4 Pro compared to Xbox One X.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,255
Actually quiet easy, once you realize that winning doesn't mean selling more consoles but making more money.
I understand that hardware sells corresponded to money made so far, but Microsoft is literally changing the game currently.
Xbox is turning into a brand and not "just" a box of hardware.

In the end you have to combine the winnings from hardware sells, subscriptions and games sold.
And Microsoft is pretty decently set up for that.
 
Oct 28, 2017
30,479
Yes they can compete with Sony, it doesnt mean they can or will "win" ( selling more Series Xs than PS5s) but they dont have to.

Good games are the most paramount of obligations for Microsoft to complete. They competed with Sony after the greatest console of all time, the PS2. There should be no reason that cant compete outside if them shitting the bed from orbit
 

Tsuyu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,548
In my opinion, if Microsoft console has the same games/ specs / price / controller as Sony, the latter will still come up top due to its global brand appeal.

The 360 / PS3 era sales figures prove that and now with more people going into digital and PS4 having 2x(?) more sales LTD than Xbox One, it's harder to compete due to people already made investment in the ecosystem of both consoles.

Sony also has a niche advantage in getting the lion share of console games made from Japsn and they are making investments into Chinese developers.

That said, I do believe Microsoft could compete with Sony. They need to build reputation for first party games first.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,839
I was surprised to see that DF now has almost a million subs. I think their face/offs do matter more than we might think, and if they simply say one version is better than the other, i dont think people will care if the difference is 18% of 50%. there are also the worst case scenarios to account for, like CoD Ghosts last gen which ran at only 720p on the x1 and double the resolution on the PS4 despite only a 40% boost in tflops. RDR2 ran at native 4k on the x1x and around half the pixels on the PS4 Pro despite the fact that the difference in tflops was only 44%.

I remember Cerny pointing out how Ray tracing is very bandwidth taxing, and sony has a 25% less of it and it has to share that with their fancy new 3d audio engine. microsoft not only has 44% more CUs which is where the ray tracing hardware resides, but they also have more ram bandwidth to feed it. ray tracing should in theory scale with clocks so it should still be a 18% difference in rt performance, but i think we will definitely have games where we see worst case scenarios like cod ghosts and rdr2.

I am not saying that the Xbox winning face/offs will convince everyone to switch to the Xbox. Just pointing out that this is how MS expects to compete against sony's advantage. Despite making all new mistakes this gen, Phil has at least ensured that he has the most powerful GPU in a next gen console. Same goes for Lockhart, once again, he has ensured that he will have the least expensive console on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if Lockhart was revived last year because Sony was going out there buying up exclusives.

Lastly, DF face/offs are going to be extremely interesting next gen. XSX might have better resolution, but is DF going to take into account the 3d audio enhancements or adaptive triggers in the PS5 controller? I would argue that in games like CoD knowing if a player is walking right behind you or having triggers with proper tension when pulling triggers is far more valuable than a few more pixels. But I am not sure if DF would focus on those things. They should but i dont think they will. There is also the UI enhancements which supposedly launch you straight into races from the home menu within seconds in WRC. If you could launch into a round of Warzone matchmaking right from the PS UI without even launching the game, thats going to be very appealing.
People can see results for themselves and DF isn't going to exaggerate an ~18% difference that will be more imperceptible than ever that may well be offset by the crazy efficiencies in PS5's design. The difference between consoles would have to be dramatic and/or problematic for people to gravitate towards one console over another in any substantial number, or even for a narrative to take hold. The power narrative is on hold until MS can show something and right now it doesn't look like they actually have anything to push it with. In fact, it's absolutely possible for Sony to run away with that narrative if their own internally produced games look better for the first year. It's also like you mentioned, the biggest difference between these consoles will end up being I/O throughput and differentiators that actually impact the gameplay experience like certain controller features. Not only that, but if PS5 is the easier console to develop for, then doesn't it make as much sense for developers to support features unique to the to that console, as it does for them to go the extra mile to make the most of XSX?

Besides, if Sony was so confident in the power of their console, I dont think they would go out on this spending spree. While I also dont think that the delta between the two is that massive, clearly Sony thinks its substantial enough to lock in these mega exclusives to ensure people dont jump ship.
One is not at all connected to the other. Sony's primary task with PS5 is having PS4 owners transition to it faster than ever before, and spending big on third-party exclusives is part of this strategy. That's practically all there is to it.
 
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Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
People can see results for themselves and DF isn't going to exaggerate an ~18% difference that will be more imperceptible than ever that may well be offset by efficiencies in PS5's design. The difference between consoles would have to be dramatic and/or problematic for people to gravitate towards one console over another in any substantial number. It's also like you mentioned, the biggest difference between these consoles will end up being I/O throughput and differentiators that actually impact the gameplay experience like certain controller features. Not only that, but if PS5 is the easier console to develop for like is very much the narrative, then doesn't it make as much sense for developers to support features unique to the to that console, as it does for them to go the extra mile to make the most of XSX?
While I don't at all expect the dedicated hardware like coprocessor in the SSD and cache scrubbers in the GPU of the PS5 to make up for the gap in compute power, I am very much interested to see what gains these will bring, if they are even significant.
 

JoJoBae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
Layton, UT
While I don't at all expect the dedicated hardware like coprocessor in the SSD and cache scrubbers in the GPU of the PS5 to make up for the gap in compute power, I am very much interested to see what gains these will bring, if they are even significant.
Either way you know first parties are gonna be able to do some ridiculous stuff on PS5. Look at what they do now with what they have.
 

Neural

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,820
Italy
They aren't even competing with Sony anymore.
I'm still kinda of confused on the whole power comparison between the 2 consoles. We got people saying the Series X is far more powerful than PS5 and others saying it's even smaller than this generations power gap. So which is it?

Well, when DF comparisons will start coming, we'll know for sure and times will start getting really interesting.
 

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,001
Two ways

"easiest" is to simply give enough reasons to make people buy their systems over Sony. That means exclusives; first party or otherwise. The latter of which makes Gamepass even better. This also means having more games take advantage of the power of the console rather than the half ass it can run on everything strat they are going with now. Unfortunatly the nature of the game is that their studios just got going so those games are a ways off. And thus the money used for hatting is tied up...sooooo

The other less tangible way, is to Nintendo it and find their own niche and be happy with that. I think gamepass is a good start....just don't know how viable that is overall.

I don't think it is wash tho. Sony is always due for their hubris getting in the way IMO. I can still see the price being higher than most expect for example...but if they are truly throwing money around then, that might be null and void....but just know their pockets aren't infinite either. All it takes is putting your money on the wrong horse...and welp
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
Either way you know first parties are gonna be able to do some ridiculous stuff on PS5. Look at what they do now with what they have.
Of course, but most importantly we're getting high end consoles from both companies at launch yet most people are more interested in bickering over ultimately insignificant differences between the two. As a game programmer, the leap in power from all fronts is exciting.
 

JoJoBae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
Layton, UT
Of course, but most importantly we're getting high end consoles from both companies at launch yet most people are more interested in bickering over ultimately insignificant differences between the two. As a game programmer, the leap in power from all fronts is exciting.
I've been guilty of it for sure. ping ponging back and forth too.


I am thankful for that. I'm literally to a point where I have no idea how much better games can look with the hardware we can even make. So I'm excited to be in that headspace. Like a kid who doesn't think Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast will ever be surpassed. Veering extremely off topic there though, my bad.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,839
While I don't at all expect the dedicated hardware like coprocessor in the SSD and cache scrubbers in the GPU of the PS5 to make up for the gap in compute power, I am very much interested to see what gains these will bring, if they are even significant.
I should have said "somewhat" make up for it, because I don't think a power gap will be closed this gen. It's more of a case of looking at existing DF comparisons, and being honest in what you see. The current differences are not tremendous even with a ~40% GPU difference. DF comparisons going forward are dealing with less than half of that difference and also with taking into account any PS5 hardware efficiencies which could render the on-paper gap even smaller. The power difference will be there no doubt, but will likely not even be half as noticable as it has been this generation.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,093
Might start with taking countries outside of "tier 1" seriously. When Xbone dropped here they showed up late and with 3000 fking units, exclusive to Amazon only. By that time Sony had already sold 100k units.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
I've been guilty of it for sure. ping ponging back and forth too.


I am thankful for that. I'm literally to a point where I have no idea how much better games can look with the hardware we can even make. So I'm excited to be in that headspace. Like a kid who doesn't think Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast will ever be surpassed. Veering extremely off topic there though, my bad.
Happens to the best of us when we inevitably have a platform of choice we gravitate towards, no worries. But yeah, having far more powerful consoles relative to contemporary PC hardware compared to last gen is great and everyone should be happy.

I should have said "somewhat" make up for it, because I don't think a power gap will be closed this gen. It's more of a case of looking at existing DF comparisons, and being honest in what you see. The current differences are not tremendous even with a ~40% GPU difference. DF comparisons going forward are dealing with less than half of that difference and also with taking into account any PS5 hardware efficiencies which could render the on-paper gap even smaller. The power difference will be there no doubt, but will likely not even be half as noticable as it has been this generation.
I love to see someone tell me with a straight face they can see the difference between 1620p and 1800p with the naked eye without zooming in. Protip: No one without an agenda can

PS: The resolution gap above is roughly 23% more pixels on a 1800p frame buffer which I think accurately represents the GPU difference between PS5 and XSX
 

JoelStinty

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,423
I think the OP post is a fair reflection of where MS are at. I know it takes time for a company to cultivate it ideas and it audience but I thought they be in a much better position than what they currently are. They have fumbled the last few months and it does feel like a little throw it at the wall and see if it sticks rather having a vision for what they want to do (which is understandable after their last console reveal where they had a clear vision got a lot of negative heat and press).

This maybe a little crass but I think they spent too much time listening to the video game community (a lot of talk of most powerful console and references to frame rates every few minutes in their showcases) and afraid of any blowback. It feels like they're releasing a console that they think fans want rather being in control of the situation themselves. They've been doing that thing which most gaming companies do where they mention their audience all the time. I kind of want to take them by the shoulders and shake them and ask them what is what they want to actually do.
 

JoJoBae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
Layton, UT
PS: The resolution gap above is roughly 23% more pixels on a 1800p frame buffer which I think accurately represents the GPU difference between PS5 and XSX
Back when I got my Pro and Wipeout came out, I did a back and forth for a few minutes. Motion blur on the game ran at 1800p, motion blur off ran at full 4k. Literally couldn't tell the difference. We're past the point where the weaker console is gonna run at something ranging from 720p to 900p, with the more powerful one looking visibly better at a glance.

On topic and to say something I've said before: I think both companies know that whoever comes in at the lower price is gonna shoot out the gate faster. So hurry up and wait on that.
 

DarkFlame92

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,775
aiming at multiplatform console players. There is a big portion that is mainly a console player and plays third party. They offer to this type of consumer the best experience. Best performance,game pass,maybe free online etc.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,024
Well this thread certainly took a weird turn with the Dusk golem comments. Specs and all discussions I have heard/seen so far does not seem to hint at a large gap at least not to the extent that is mentioned here. Changes to the hardware then?

I seriously doubt anyone would know what the prices are for these systems tho. Would be surprised if that is incorrect
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
Well this thread certainly took a weird turn with the Dusk golem comments. Specs and all discussions I have heard/seen so far does not seem to hint at a large gap at least not to the extent that is mentioned here. Changes to the hardware then?

I seriously doubt anyone would know what the prices are for these systems tho. Would be surprised if that is incorrect
It's way too late for either company to be making any significant changes to the APU at this state. Best we can hope from either are slight boost to clockspeeds and/or switching to faster RAM chips, neither of which will make the difference suddenly "far more powerful" for the XSX.
 

Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,321
With a strong 1st party they can compete.
Wont sit here and say GP is the be all for them, GP is virtual console and it play by the same rule as a console with rule number 1 being a strong 1st lineup.
 

Brix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,730
By making great games. Continuing to make gamepass excellent. And buying up timed exclusives. Or....by asking Nintendo can they put switch games on gamepass.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,315
I'm not sure they are trying to directly compete with Sony. Sure, they are all after a slice of the gaming pie but MS is now doing its own thing.
 
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