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Deleted member 8791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,383
As I said last thread, hope Sony can fix their big criticisms from this gen going into next. Lack of nickname change, lack of account information change, lack of BC, lack of DS4 battery (personal pet annoyance) as well as we-can't-talk-about-it. I think some people underestimate the backlash if Sony reveals that they keep ignoring all of these issues. Espescially as Microsoft espescially are on point in regards to these, and are potentially gearing up for more first party exclusives.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
How much do you think the lack of BC will really hurt them in the PS5? As much as I'd want that, I don't know if it's a priority either way.

I think it will hurt this time. We know Xbox will have it and we know MS would triple down on the PR if Sony doesn't have it.

People are also a lot more invested in their digital library on PS4 than they were on PS3. Telling those people they gonna lose all their shit and rebuy, again, their favorites on PS5? I dunno if that's going to fly next time around. I have a feeling this generation was the gen for remasters and consumers aren't going to be as tolerant next gen.
 

Casual

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,547
Well deserved success.

Regarding the BC, I hope it's only there if it doesn't increase hardware cost. If it does, I'd rather have that money be used on giving the console better specs from a CPU/GPU/RAM standpoint. I've already played the PS4 games I wanted to play on my PS4.
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,415
Glad sony remembers what got them here. Hope they take what made PS4 successful and add to the formula. $400 price point, making the system easy to develop for, quality exclusive games, give indies a platform to succeed. Only thing I would add is BC support that was in past consoles like PS2 and PS3. Also continuing to support PSVR, as I think its truly game changing when done right.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,168
Austin, TX
Can't imagine how difficult it is to line up some quality launch games but I feel like that needs to happen with ps5. ps4 is such a great console, you'll need a damn good reason to make the transition. I mean, personally speaking, cross-gen games that run better (ie a higher framerate/res) is enough for me to make the jump. But the general public? I dunno.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
The logic would be that it's the one feature Microsoft can really lord over their heads. That being said, I don't know if BC is a sure thing either. What I'm curious about is IF they do end up including it, how they're going to deal with the remaster market. TLOU sold like millions of copies of their remaster. Do they just give away all that free extra revenue?
That's true, but I think the question is, how important is it to the larger market? Like, is backward compatibility actually going to hurt Sony's standing in the market in the next generation? As an example, as much as I would like for Sony to support backward compatibility and digital continuity, am I really not going to buy their system once the next God of War or The Last of Us hits the PS5? Because I would. I think Sony knows that too- as long as WWS keeps up their output, they have an almost Nintendo like impunity.

People are really mad about the existente ps4 tittle don't be playable at ps5... I sure Xbox Next will have bc in mind if you consider the sucess of Xbox in that departament.
Its all about launch tittles, a problem of ps4 in the start of his era with lack of games. I forgive Sony because that horrible CELL cpu with is indeed hard to BC. Now with x86 arq is no other excuse.
While I do agree that with x86 it'd be harder to explain or excuse to the market, I also think that, ultimately it will be about games, as you say. Sony launching the PS5 with a Horizon 2 exclusive to it, and everyone will buy it, even if there is grumbling about the hardware's perceived deficiencies itself. It happened with Switch too.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Well now that's a lot more interesting than what is in the OP.
Hopefully they push AI, because nearly nothing is doing now. I don't expect that next gen either at this rate sadly.
Dont post here then, lots of threads on era to participate in.
Check my post above. Just saying the link in the OP has nothing worse discussing, but the topic in itself is interesting, as shown in later links.
Why do you think so? They're totally going to overcompensate for the CPU
Even if they compensate on the CPU (which will be hard if it's a regular APU again) AI is something that has never really been pushed outside of PC, for various reasons.
AI is just really hard to MarketWatch unlike graphics and similar. Wish it'd change.
 

Outrun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,783
It is hard to fault Sony on their games output. That's for sure.

Here's hoping for some kickass hardware for the PS5.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I'm an Xbox owner, but PS4 is a beast. It hit the right price and power from the start, has/had quality exclusives, snatched the marketing deals for some of the biggest games (Call Of Duty, FIFA and Destiny among others), and basically is THE console in most of Europe. Italy, for one, features plenty of shops where you barely find any Nintendo or Microsoft product but Sony's everywhere. They learned from their mistakes from PS3 and here we are. Success and mindshare are not necessarily eternal, they'd do well to listen to their fans' wishes a bit more. This generation is in their pocket either way, but if they come out next-gen with a console that is priced the same as the next Xbox, has a similar or lower quality hardware, and also has none of the stuff their rivals offer (crossplay with other consoles, backwards compatibility, services like Game Pass or "background" stuff like refunds) things could shift rapidly. Of course, they always have a lot of impressive IPs to work on and the fact that a lot of Japanese publishers put their games on PlayStation pretty much by default, though this trend is slightly changing finally. We'll see. Either way, their success this generation is comparable to that of PS2.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,092
How much do you think the lack of BC will really hurt them in the PS5? As much as I'd want that, I don't know if it's a priority either way.
It will ultimately depend on what the launch line up is like, if it's good most probably won't care, but no PS4 BC would just be a dumb move, as it's just leaving money on the table, give MS a big early advantage and piss off their most loyal customers for nothing.
For me it'd be the difference between day 1 buy to day whenever it has a enough games I want buy.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,125
Seems like the PS3 mistakes still plays a big role in PS4's bosses.

That part stuck out for me:

He had trust with the developers - whatever he made, the top developers would be able to work on them and understand them. He didn't see the need to involve game developers in the design of the system - that's how the PS3 was made. And you know how successful it was."

This was what they drove home during the PS4's reveal through its release. I'm glad it's still something they take seriously as I want the next console to also be easy to develop for so developers don't have an extremely hard time making even larger, more ambitious games.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,867
I really would like to know why PS1 classics didn't make the transition to the PS4.
Isn't PS4 incapable of reading regular CD-ROMs?

Or if you mean the digital ones, that I'm not sure -- Probably because they wanted to include PS2 as well?
Could be for business reasons as well, only they know.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
Check my post above. Just saying the link in the OP has nothing worse discussing, but the topic in itself is interesting, as shown in later links.

Even if they compensate on the CPU (which will be hard if it's a regular APU again) AI is something that has never really been pushed outside of PC, for various reasons.
AI is just really hard to MarketWatch unlike graphics and similar. Wish it'd change.

You should check out The Last of Us P2 E3 gameplay video.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
I think it will hurt this time. We know Xbox will have it and we know MS would triple down on the PR if Sony doesn't have it.

People are also a lot more invested in their digital library on PS4 than they were on PS3. Telling those people they gonna lose all their shit and rebuy, again, their favorites on PS5? I dunno if that's going to fly next time around. I have a feeling this generation was the gen for remasters and consumers aren't going to be as tolerant next gen.

It will ultimately depend on what the launch line up is like, but no PS4 BC would just be a dumb move, as it's just leaving money on the table, give MS a big early advantage and piss off their most loyal customers for nothing.
For me it'd be the difference between day 1 buy to day whenever it has a enough games I want buy.
I think there is a possibility that Sony has some attrition over the issue, but I think in the end, to the larger market, backward compatibility has never mattered (and the market is also trained to not expect BC in their home consoles in general).
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
That's true, but I think the question is, how important is it to the larger market? Like, is backward compatibility actually going to hurt Sony's standing in the market in the next generation? As an example, as much as I would like for Sony to support backward compatibility and digital continuity, am I really not going to buy their system once the next God of War or The Last of Us hits the PS5? Because I would. I think Sony knows that too- as long as WWS keeps up their output, they have an almost Nintendo like impunity.
Good point. I think it would definitely hurt at the start of the generation ("I can play all of my old games" is a pretty significant selling point, especially when you add "I can play all of my old games, but better" to the equation"), and fucking up your momentum from the beginning could have lasting consequences. But other than that, would it influence people who only buy it for first party exclusives? Maybe not.

That being said though, I think it WOULD influence the people who only buy it for FIFA or COD or whatever. I think having BC would help in ensuring those people stick to your platform. Lacking BC on the other hand could have those people drifting, depending on how sweet the deal is on the other side.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,672
Isn't PS4 incapable of reading regular CD-ROMs?

Or if you mean the digital ones, that I'm not sure -- Probably because they wanted to include PS2 as well?
Could be for business reasons as well, only they know.
Digital ones, obviously. I guess there might be some third-party licensing issues or something. It's bizarre to me that they let a relatively easy revenue stream fall by the wayside.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
I think there is a possibility that Sony has some attrition over the issue, but I think in the end, to the larger market, backward compatibility has never mattered (and the market is also trained to not expect BC in their home consoles in general).

While it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for PS5 I think it's handing their direct competitor a massive win and adds to their momentum. If Sony keeps handing MS these kinds of wins there will be a tipping point.
 

MisterR

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,463
While I do agree that with x86 it'd be harder to explain or excuse to the market, I also think that, ultimately it will be about games, as you say. Sony launching the PS5 with a Horizon 2 exclusive to it, and everyone will buy it, even if there is grumbling about the hardware's perceived deficiencies itself. It happened with Switch too.
I mean you're right. BC is nice, but people buy new systems to play new games. If the games are there, people will buy the system. That said, with the ease of adding BC with x86, I think it will be there on PS5.
 

Lwyn

Banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
168
Again he didn't screw up the Vita, he design a great piece of hardware, that for multiple reasons didn't take off, then lost support.

He may have not screwed up the Vita hardware wise but someone did the console dirty software wise. The fact that it didn't worse than the XB1 is funny.

Also, is PS Now out of beta and opened in more countries yet?
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,092
I think there is a possibility that Sony has some attrition over the issue, but I think in the end, to the larger market, backward compatibility has never mattered (and the market is also trained to not expect BC in their home consoles in general).
I think it'll be a bigger deal next gen than ever before, just because digital has took off so much, so fast. But I agree in the grand scheme it's not super important, especially later on when the more casual consumer jump onboard.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
Sony need to do some big shit to lose mainland Europe market.

Jup.

Even the 599$ launch price, the slower first years, the bad performance of some games and the big hack couldn't stop them in the end. Almost everything that could went wrong went wrong and they still sold a bit more than MS with their 360 in the very end.

This is something many inside the us simply don't seem to understand completely. Outside of the US/Uk people don't care about anything besides Playstation and Nintendo.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,125
Let's be honest, it was mostly a good transition for them because of the massive success that was the PS1 and they had essentially no worthwhile competition for a long-ass time (a limping Sega and soon-to-be-dead Dreamcast barely count). There was nothing great about the hardware itself, had the same hard-to-work-with complaints that the PS3 had, and for the entire generation it "enjoyed" noticeably worse image quality than the DC/GC/XB. You could make the argument that the struggling Dreamcast had the superior lineup during the PS2 launch and launch window. But it didn't matter. Sony had the superior brand awareness.

The PS2 having the massive market share it did was I'm sure part of why they didn't rectify the difficulty of development for the PS3 and actually made it worse. I remember the same thing since the term "jaggies" was used over and over to describe Dreamcast->PS2 ports.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,168
Austin, TX
Yeah I don't think it's a question if PS5 will be backwards compatible with PS4. I think, with the much higher digital attach rate, that's it's a given. It would be nice if Sony did so with ps2 and ps1 titles as well.
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,152
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
Again he didn't screw up the Vita, he design a great piece of hardware, that for multiple reasons didn't take off, then lost support.

Yes, Vita is a fantastic handheld.

I doubt Cerny came up with the idea for super expensive proprietary cards, that is most likely a decision directly from Kaz or House. The Vita was an amazing handheld.

The Vita was wholly unnecessary in design. OLED screen? Didn't need it. Cellular features? Didn't need it. Power level? Too much. It would've been fine being a step above the PSP sans capacitive touch screen for $100 less. Some of these are Cerny decisions. Handhelds don't need power. He should know that. They need compelling experiences. It's why Nintendo continues to dominate.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I think there is a possibility that Sony has some attrition over the issue, but I think in the end, to the larger market, backward compatibility has never mattered (and the market is also trained to not expect BC in their home consoles in general).

I think given how the industry has evolved since even 2013 BC will matter a lot more this coming gen than it has in the past

with all the ongoing service games I doubt gamers are going to be ok with a clean break. they're going to expect Fortnite to come forward with them with all their progress, they're going to expect Overwatch to come forward with them with all their progress, etc.

my thinking is that any hardware that doesn't allow content and progress to come forward will get laughed out of the room. Switch 2, PS5, Xbox One 2. though I expect MS to get it right Sony and Nintendo are up in the air.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,092
He may have not screwed up the Vita hardware wise but someone did the console dirty software wise. The fact that it didn't worse than the XB1 is funny.

Also, is PS Now out of beta and opened in more countries yet?
Oh definitely, it got shot in the leg before it could even walk. Shame as the hardware was incredible for it's time and still great to this day, but it just never really got going.
 

AndrewDean84

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,595
Fontana, California
Well, if Sony keeps up their current agenda, I might not be there next gen. I've already invested too much this gen with them to jump ship currently.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,092
The Vita was wholly unnecessary in design. OLED screen? Didn't need it. Cellular features? Didn't need it. Power level? Too much. It would've been fine being a step above the PSP sans capacitive touch screen for $100 less. Some of these are Cerny decisions. Handhelds don't need power. He should know that. They need compelling experiences. It's why Nintendo continues to dominate.
So like what a Ken PS5 would be?
Regardless Cerny did his job and very well imo, Sony didn't.
 

Ghost Slayer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,407
Jup.

Even the 599$ launch price, the slower first years, the bad performance of some games and the big hack couldn't stop them in the end. Almost everything that could went wrong went wrong and they still sold a bit more than MS with their 360 in the very end.

This is something many inside the us simply don't seem to understand completely. Outside of the US/Uk people don't care about anything besides Playstation and Nintendo.
Yup. PS, Nintendo and PC dominated in SEA here. Xbox is barely even here. Its no surprised that PS Asia actually market it and localize a lot of Japanese games
 

KiNolin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,296
Yeah I don't think it's a question if PS5 will be backwards compatible with PS4. I think, with the much higher digital attach rate, that's it's a given. It would be nice if Sony did so with ps2 and ps1 titles as well.

Ps4 should be the absolute minimum, on top of that they should try to make PS3 digital purchases playable. Also PS1 should be a must just because it's a nod to longtime hardcore fans and you can't convince me that they really can't pull off a PS1 emulator easily.
 

Jacknapes

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,185
Newport, South Wales
25 years of PlayStation. And it's nice to read that even today, the company has not forgotten it's mistakes from the past and hasn't forgotten what made them great. I've only been on PlayStation since the PS4, but i've had no issues with what i've seen so far.

When the PS5 arrives, it'll be a smooth transition as it was to PS1 to PS2. Hopefully it's fully backwards compatible with PS4 games and accessories, i'll be there day 1 if they do that.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Well deserved . A great gaming console with many games .

Hope bc is there for ps5 launch and I wish they would buy or create more studios .
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
There was nothing great about the hardware itself, had the same hard-to-work-with complaints that the PS3 had, and for the entire generation it "enjoyed" noticeably worse image quality than the DC/GC/XB.

With an RGB cable the image quality was quite decent. Of course it was no comparision to the VGA cable of the Dreamcast. But the Gamecube had a worse image quality, at least here in Europe.

The hardware was hard to work with, but still quite impressive with its two vector units. Some games like Need for Speed: Underground looked really gorgeous.
 

Pariah

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,946
I love it when some people lose it and take off their masks.

I'm the first one who wants PSX Classics on PS4, just to name a missing service, so there must always be space for criticism. But a tide of negativity when the global picture is positive, ends up feeling like a look into a parallel reality.

These last years have been good. Now they must keep getting better, the same for the rest of the industry. I'm sure they remember how volatile this industry is...
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,556
I think it will hurt this time. We know Xbox will have it and we know MS would triple down on the PR if Sony doesn't have it.

People are also a lot more invested in their digital library on PS4 than they were on PS3. Telling those people they gonna lose all their shit and rebuy, again, their favorites on PS5? I dunno if that's going to fly next time around. I have a feeling this generation was the gen for remasters and consumers aren't going to be as tolerant next gen.

It's more about preserving online GaaS comunities than simply allowing people to play old games, this time around. That's why BC will be very important for Ps5's launch.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
It's more about preserving online GaaS comunities than simply allowing people to play old games, this time around. That's why BC will be very important for Ps5 launch.

Yup. Think about the scenario where the new Xbox can play Overwatch with no issues while PS5 users gotta go pay $60 (or whatever) since it won't play their PS4 version. BC is almost a must IMO.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Its really interesting where the PS5 is going to go with the architecture.

With Cerny on the lead i think we can expect another easy to use and to develop for the Playstation again.

But hope BC will be part of the thought of the PS5 architecture.

Really?
I feel like they need to. The PS3 kind of reset the clock and the PS4 is much like the PS1. The PS5 could maybe surpass the PS2 if it followed in its footsteps and was fully BC right out of the gate and stayed fully BC for its entire lifecycle.