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Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
14907ddf-462b-4fdc-81d2-afed5b3f47a5.jpg


I'm sure that almost everyone here knows about Rare and their history. They started as a prolific developer mainly for NES, and they eventually became a very close partner to Nintendo during the SNES and N64 years. While it's not like their games were the only ones that defined those consoles, there's no doubt that they played an important role in their success, and you can even see their influence on Nintendo even now. They basically shaped Donkey Kong to something more than a Mario villain, with the Donkey Kong Country series. They bolstered Nintendo 64's back catalogue with 3D Platformers, shaping what's essentially a golden age for the genre. They also released a lot of high-profile titles that catered to an older demographic, something that was important for Nintendo with the advent of PlayStation 1. In general, I just can't think that Nintendo from 1990 to 2000 would be the same without them, for better or worse.

And then the Microsoft acquisition happened. Rare's output around 2003 wasn't as strong as before, so I assume that did play a role in why Nintendo "accepted defeat". Microsoft was making their first steps into the video games industry then, and the addition of a studio with a lot of experience and its own IPs, that greatly defined the years before their arrival, was certainly more than enticing I assume. In any case, whether that was a good or bad thing is another matter, but it's certain that their output went through many changes after they became a first party studio for Microsoft. It feels like that most of their initial releases in that period were kind of similar in tone to what they had for Nintendo actually, but as far as I can see they never quite managed to match their original output. Sequels that weren't as good as the originals and series like Viva Pinata that tried to have some of the spirit of Rare in them, but didn't quite manage to do it. And while I'm sure that not everyone will agree with the previous statement, I'd argue that the state of the company in late 2000s and early 2010s is quite telling. Kinect was the focus on Microsoft at the time, and the company known for some very beloved franchises and games had become a shell of its former self.

Kinect was a weird phase of the industry in general, funnily enough spearheaded by Nintendo with Wii's motion controls. And as a lot of phases, it eventually stopped. The next phase of the industry, which is still true to this day, were Games as a Service and this is what was Rare's, a very different Rare's probably, next venture. I'd say that this game was successful for Microsoft, especially as GamePass game, even if a lot of aspects of it seemed shaky at first. But still, it was a far cry from what the old fans would expect from that company. And today, after games that basically promoted an extra piece of hardware and a service, it seems Rare is ready again to make a single player experience, with Everwild, which seems like it's their next big game. And while Rare has changed a lot since the 90s, Microsoft has also changed since 2003, as the whole landscape did.

I wanted to make that short introduction, but there are sure a lot of details I've left out or stuff that I've missed. In any case, the point of this thread is the question I have as a title, when was Rare at its best? Is it the era that gave us beloved franchises like DKC and Banjo, and games like Goldeneye 64? Or, despite the Kinect games, which fall into a category that I assume is universally disliked in a forum like this one, post-Microsoft Rare has displayed, and continues to display promise, and manages to surpass the output of their former self after all, being part of such a colossus. Honestly, I always thought Rare is one of the most fascinating stories in the industry, from the point of view of a consumer at least because I'm sure it's not as rosy for everyone involved. And that story feels more relevant than ever considering how "hot" acquisitions have become. Even if the amount they got purchased for isn't as big as a lot of more recent acquisitions, it feels like one of the biggest ones in terms of a "cultural" impact for hardcore gaming communities of the past.

So here you go, please tell me what you think about all this.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Obviously the Nintendo era.

Banjo, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Diddy Kong Racing, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Donkey Kong

That's who Rare was and always will be to me.
 

PucePikmin

Member
Apr 26, 2018
3,796
Late SNES to early N64 era. Golden era started with first Donkey Kong Country, ended with Jet Force Gemini.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,447
São Paulo, Brazil
They had their best years during the first half of the N64's lifetime.

By Banjo-Tooie and Conker their games had already become bloated and way too formulaic.
 

Tomacco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,008
Commercially, I believe the Kinect crap outsold everything they had done previously. Admitting being nastalgic, the 64 games were the best, but I do have faith that the best is yet to come
 

Terbinator

Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,285
People will say the Nintendo era but Sea of Thieves is actually their singular best work, slightly advantage given its live service, but still.
 

NekoNeko

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
18,481
N64 era is extremely dated and borderline unplayable, the first MS decade was awful and now they're mediocre so i'm saying SNES.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,678
Rare during the Nintendo 64 was obviously one of the best studios in the industry (and the best one imo) but I think they have finally found their new identity and their marks since their intended come-back at E3 2015 and that they're starting to reach their previous levels again.

Rare Replay, Sea of Thieves are really great games (and did extremeley well contrary to Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker: Live & Reloaded, Viva Pinata, Banjo-Kazooie, Nuts & Bolts, Kinect Sports Rivals, etc.. which were all notable commercial failures) and I'm sure that Everwild will be too.

At least, the Rare of 2021 is the best and most successful Rare we have since the buyout in 2002. And the closest to the Rare of the Golden age. They're a very special studio and I'm glad that they're still here in the industry and most successful than ever almost 36 years later.

1) 1994-2001
2) 2015-now
3) 2002-2008
4) before 1994
(.........................)
5) 2008-2015
 
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Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,781
Toronto
Seems kind of cheating to group their SNES and N64 games together, more interesting to narrow the scope.

You wrote a lot in your OP but I'm still confused how you think anyone would choose a post-N64 Rare, even if someone liked Viva Pinata/Nuts & Bolts or Sea of Thieves, their closest highs.
 
Oct 27, 2017
707
Miami, Florida
Seems kind of cheating to group their SNES and N64 games together, more interesting to narrow the scope.

You wrote a lot in your OP but I'm still confused how you think anyone would choose a post-N64 Rare, even if someone liked Viva Pinata/Nuts & Bolts or Sea of Thieves, their closest highs.

SNES and 64 is fair, it was only a Six year period. With regard to your second comment, it may just be a generational/age thing.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
8,015
California
N64 Era IMO. I think that they can get back to where they were if they continue on the same path. Sea Thieves is doing wonderful things for them and I am very happy to see this.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
Love modern Rare. Their new way of being open with the community is better than the secretive Rare way back then.

The N64 time was very special, too, for all the obvious reasons.
 
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Nov 2, 2017
4,480
Birmingham, AL
Nintendo Era was when they were the most creative, but Microsoft era is where they made their best games.

And it feels like the creative side is returning. Sea of Thieves is an amazing game. One of their best, and it's only getting better. And Everwild looks really unique. I'm super curious what it ends up being.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,395
Rare are so damn fun for these discussions because their history is so broad and wide reaching.

I have soft spots for most of their eras. Their NES stuff was really creative. Cobra Triangle is amazing and RC Pro-Am was fun as hell. I grew up bouncing from loving to hating Digger T. Rock.

Their Spectrum/BBC Micro stuff was legendary. Truly important stuff for the history of British game design.

Obviously their SNES output with Killer Instinct and the DKC games was a golden era.

And the N64 was where they just knocked it out of the park and, arguably, beat Nintendo at their own game to a large degree. Banjo, GoldenEye, Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, Conker, Diddy Kong Racing... that's the one.

Fell off during the GameCube/Xbox era to a good extent. I mean... Star Fox Adventures. Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Not the finest.

They got creative during the 360 eras. I don't think many will say it was their finest time but the Viva Pinata games and BK Nuts and Bolts are three absolute rough gems.

Even their much despised Kinect days were arguably top tier as far as Kinect software went. Kinect Sports was huge for them and genuinely the best Kinect title.

Modern Rare is special to me. Sea of Thieves is my favourite game of last generation and possibly top five of all time for me. It's a game that I've put thousands of hours into and made real, proper friends all over the world through playing. Meaningful relationships where I'd travel across the world to see people (if I could). All because of some dumb pirate adventures. It's definitely my World of Warcraft in that respect.
 
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Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I don't think it's at all controversial to say that the time between Donkey Kong Country and Conker's Bad Fur Day were the company's golden age.

Even if Sea of Thieves is good now that's one game versus years of top tier content.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,721
Beginning of the MS era is my opinion. Conker remake had a really fun multiplayer mode, Kameo was a pretty fun and interesting adventure game, Perfect Dark Zero exists (haven't played it), Viva Piñata and it's sequels were also great, and lastly Banjo Nuts and Bolts was a fun little game too.

So that's my pick, because that's the era which has the games that have aged the best and had the most diversity. The N64 era games are fine but haven't aged as well and were all very similar
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,469
Pre-Microsoft. SNES to early N64 days.

They made all of these between 1994-2001:
DKC
Killer Instinct
DKC 2
DKC 3
Goldeneye
Diddy Kong Racing
Banjo-Kazooie
Perfect Dark
Banjo-Tooie
Jet Force Gemini
DK64
Conker's Bad Fur Day
 
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eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,327
N64-era, but I've found Rare to be an extremely hit-or-miss company. They've made so many games, but really only a small percentage are really worth playing imo.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Yeah, definitely SNES to early N64 for the longest streak of great and varied software. Their output post MS acquisition is comparatively weak but Viva Piñata is an excellent series and they really turned Sea of Thieves around after a bumpy start. Haven't been this excited about the studio in close to two decades.
 

Damn Silly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,201
Pre-Kinect 360 era.

Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero were (personally) great fun as launch titles (though I understand why fans of the original PD aren't big on Zero)
Viva Pinata and Viva Pinata: Trouble In Paradise are easily Rare's best games.
Nuts and Bolts is a terrifically creative game, and my favourite of the three BK games (albeit as someone who played 1 and Tooie after, but is still a big fan of collectathons) and was arguably ahead of its time when you look at how creative games like Minecraft blew up and continue to be incredibly popular to this day.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
1994-2001.

They were the greatest developer the world has ever seen during that 6-7 year period.
 
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OP
OP
Qurupeke

Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
You wrote a lot in your OP but I'm still confused how you think anyone would choose a post-N64 Rare, even if someone liked Viva Pinata/Nuts & Bolts or Sea of Thieves, their closest highs.

I actually kinda wanted to keep the OP as neutral as possible, as while I haven't played a lot of their games, and I can't even give a straight answer to my own question, I have my preferences, haha. That said, with Microsoft at least, I wasn't actually referring as much to their earlier output, but specifically to Sea of Thieves, which feels something that is both very successful and people actually like and enjoy. But I'm sure a lot of people here dislike GaaS, so by itself it would probably be something a minority here liked. That's why I actually mention Everwild. And you'll tell me, the game isn't even out, how is that valid? And you'd be right, but it seems like a decent point to judge their intentions moving forward. It's a different Rare with big plans, that aims for something more traditional, that is at the same time much more different than anything they've done before, at least based on what we've seen.

And of course, because I'm sure a lot of people will just choose Nintendo/Microsoft era only, I think both of those eras can be broken down to shorter periods, it's fine to be more specific about what you like!
 

mudron

Member
Feb 13, 2020
850
Pretty clearly it was from Donkey Kong Country through to the end of the end of the N64 era (pretty much closing out the latter with Conker's Bad Fur Day).

If the Rare collection on Xbox did anything, it highlighted how awful most of their games before DKC were (not that I needed much reminding after having grown up playing so many of their garbage games on the NES), and shit, this is coming from someone who will go to his grave defending BK: Nuts and Bolts.

I keep meaning to blow the dust off my Xbox and give Sea of Thieves another spin - maybe after I pick up a new Xbox just to play Microsoft Flight Simulator.
 
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The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,113
That N64 era they were the best developer in gaming. Everything they made was gold, and they basically made the N64 a must have console for those who owned it. Consider this, if you took Rare games off of the consoles they developed for, which console would be affected the most?

Xbox One, Xbox 360, Xbox, there'd be almost no affect on those consoles if Rare didn't develop games for them. Like, Sea of Thieves and Viva Pinata and Kameo are fun games, they've made the consoles better, but they didn't make those consoles. Sea of Thieves was their first game that wasn't a disappointment since the Microsoft partnership, IMO. It's been almost 20 years, and after going like 5 for 5 on the N64 in ~5 years, their output has been pretty disappointing in the last 20 years.

But if you took Rare games from the N64 ... Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker, DK64, Banjo 1 & 2 ... And all of the other ones I've forgotten about (Killer Instinct, Diddy Kong, Blast Corps...), that's a serious murderers row of games on the N64, and I think the console doesnt' nearly have the same impact that it did. Back in the 90s, the N64 was developing this reputation that you'd get serious games on the Playstation -- sports, alternative, action, RPG, story-based games -- and then the N64 would have those classic franchises like Mario Kart, Mario 64, Zelda, Donkey Kong... But then Goldeneye like, readjusted all of those expectations (Turok did too TBH but it doesn't have the same legacy as Goldeneye), where suddenly the N64 was a console that had amazing classic Nintendo franchises *but also* had the best shooter and the best multiplayer game, and the best licensed game *EVER*. I think some people kinda forget back in 1996/1997, it was the norm that licensed media games were bad outside of sports/racing (and honestly I think Goldeneye is one of the only great licensed games up until Arkham Asylum ... the expectation was that most licensed games would be kinda average to outright bad, with a handful that were above average but usually not as good as the unlicensed competition). Goldeneye was (and probably still is) the best movie game ever made. Going all the way back to E.T. there was an expectation that licensed movie games would be kinda bad -- JAWS, Nightmare on Elm St, Ghostbusters games -- and while there have been some hits (Genesis 90s Disney titles like Alladin and the Lion King or Castle of Illusion & Mickey Mania, The Star Wars game on N64, etc), none were all time great smash hits until Goldeneye. Hell I even rented the next 007 game, Tomorrow Never Dies, when it came out for PSX thinking it might be a Playstation-version of Goldeneye. Of course it wasn't, that game sucked.

SNES obviously they had Donkey Kong Country, but the SNES was already a *made* console when DK Country came out and it was like a chef's kiss at the end of that generation.

So, it's obviously the N64.
 
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NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,807
It's hard to imagine Rare ever topping their SNES-N64 golden days, and it's certainly not for a lack of trying. Between the release of DKC and Conker's Bad Fur Day, I'd be hard pressed to name a single game of theirs that wasn't quality. Even DK64 I still really enjoy to this day.
 

We_care_a_lot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,157
Summerside PEI
Perfect dark, was their best game. Never been a fan of their mascot platformers but they are good, perfect dark however was rare developing at the top of their game. Amazing that game even ran on an n64
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
94-2000

Donkey Kong Country to Perfect Dark

CBFD was the final game of the Classic Rareware era; not Perfect Dark.

Hell of a way to go out!

That being said? Ghoulies is actually a really good game for what it is; just not the game that people wanted at the time. Ghoulies is still the best post-golden era Rareware game that Rare ever made; and still has a bit of that old Rareware spark still in it.

As much as I hate what Rare became? I'll still bat for Ghoulies.

But yeah, nothing touches what Rare were during their tenure with Nintendo; not even Nintendo themselves!
 

stn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,609
Same answer that pretty much everyone else will say: SNES to N64. Way too many hits, its insane how good they were.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
I mean there was a time when they were iconic in the industry, and then there's now. I don't think it's hard to answer this question.