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TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,369
Boston
Incorrect.

Digital Audio formats like 7.1 or 3D audio are high bandwidth. They send a lot of digital information over to the receiver, and they need to do it at a certain speed.

An optical port is a digital out, but can't carry enough information to support a 7.1 or 3D audio signal going to the receiver.

Its not a "licensed decoder" issue, the cable simply can't carry the signal. It's like asking why you can't get a 1080p signal to your TV using composite or S-video.

As for getting HD audio via the controller's connection that's using Bluetooth not a "stereo jack" to pick up the signal from the Ps4. I don't know a ton about Bluetooth audio but I'm pretty sure it's highly compressed and severely limited compared to what would be comi

Sorry was being unclear. Once the audio is decoded, there's nothing stopping it from being sent over optical, except receivers removing their optical out ports and general CP concerns.

Yes, the bitstream data it too high bitrate (supposedly), but I was thinking more in line after its been decoded.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
I'd be curious how many people this actually effects.

I actually use Optical Audio on my setup but it takes the signal that i sent to the TV and pushes it forward to my receiver and the only reason I do that is because when I upgrade to 4K TV my receiver didn't do 4K pass through so this was a work around.

The situation here then is likely you have
a) an old receiver (like 15+ years) and/or
b) A TV that is either so old or so cheap that it doesn't do optical pass through (which is fairly standard)

I have to think Sony figured it wasn't worth including this for such a small group of people (and maybe those people should consider upgrading their equipment).
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,069
Sorry was being unclear. Once the audio is decoded, there's nothing stopping it from being sent over optical, except receivers removing their optical out ports and general CP concerns.

Yes, the bitstream data it too high bitrate (supposedly), but I was thinking more in line after its been decoded.

It gets decoded by the receiver or similar device. So a high bandwidth digital connection goes from the PS5 to a receiver, that device decodes it into an analog audio signal, then sends the analog audio to your speakers.

Once the receiver has it, TOSLINK is pointless.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,590
This and the lack of 1440p support pretty much seals the deal for me. I'll be putting the money into a new PC instead, which may not be such a bad idea anyway since we'll see more first-party titles being ported.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,625
This and the lack of 1440p support pretty much seals the deal for me. I'll be putting the money into a new PC instead, which may not be such a bad idea anyway since we'll see more first-party titles being ported.

Is it confirmed they aren't doing native support again?
 

Ensoul

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,348

Amazon.com: 4K HDMI Audio Extractor Spiltter, avedio links 1080P HDMI to HDMI Audio Converter + Optical Toslink SPDIF + RCA L/R Stereo Analog Audio, HDMI Audio Adapter for Chromecast, Fire Stick,Blu-Ray Player: Electronics

Amazon.com: 4K HDMI Audio Extractor Spiltter, avedio links 1080P HDMI to HDMI Audio Converter + Optical Toslink SPDIF + RCA L/R Stereo Analog Audio, HDMI Audio Adapter for Chromecast, Fire Stick,Blu-Ray Player: Electronics

I think that does the picture as well but I am going to assume there is some lag or loss in picture quality using that as a pass through?
 

Flash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
377
Only drawback with removing the SPDIF Input is if the PS5 wouldn't be capable of recognizing certain DAC/Amps that use USB.

I know it's a minority but Audiophiles with certain setups probably find this disappointing. SPDIF is great because it's plug and play no drivers necessary. Not always the case with USB connectivity.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
I legit just bought a Logitech surround sound system that doesn't have HDMI audio lmao:


For fuck's sake Sony.
Also have this setup. Fantastic speakers but the lack of HDMI is the downer. Having to rely on Optical is fine for consoles with the port but now we have to rework things. Guess I have to get a HDMI/Optical Toslink thing and make do. Shame. Don't really want to get rid of great speakers, just because of the port loss.
 

androvsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,518
You guys don't have optical out on your TV's?
TCL at least have optical out, but there's often a lot of additional lag. Sounds like it's a common problem with TVs that have a Roku OS.

Only drawback with removing the SPDIF Input is if the PS5 wouldn't be capable of recognizing certain DAC/Amps that use USB.

I know it's a minority but Audiophiles with certain setups probably find this disappointing. SPDIF is great because it's plug and play no drivers necessary. Not always the case with USB connectivity.
I got the impression Sony was still going to support USB, which should be okay-ish for a lot of headsets. Do the DAC/Amps you're talking about work on PS4? If so, they should (emphasis: should) be okay on PS5 too.

As for the headsets, most of the PS4 headsets have USB audio support for chat, but there's an OS option on PS4 to pipe all audio through the USB. It's limited to stereo, but that's exactly what you want for Tempest surround audio. They'll lose chat/game level adjustment from the headset, though it should still be adjustable in the OS.
 

Flash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
377
TCL at least have optical out, but there's often a lot of additional lag. Sounds like it's a common problem with TVs that have a Roku OS.


I got the impression Sony was still going to support USB, which should be okay-ish for a lot of headsets. Do the DAC/Amps you're talking about work on PS4? If so, they should (emphasis: should) be okay on PS5 too.

As for the headsets, most of the PS4 headsets have USB audio support for chat, but there's an OS option on PS4 to pipe all audio through the USB. It's limited to stereo, but that's exactly what you want for Tempest surround audio. They'll lose chat/game level adjustment from the headset, though it should still be adjustable in the OS.
Oh idk. I haven't owned a Sony system in a while. I know the PS3 it's capable of recognizing certain DACs from the USB. I am more talking about external Audiophile level DACs.

I own a AUNE X1s and I'm pretty sure the Xbox would not recognize it if I connect it through USB. Thankfully X1X has the SPDIF output. Would be a shame if both consoles kill the spec.
 

NekoFever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,009
With the cable going from the system to the receiver and from the receiver to the tv, how would any other audio from the tv that ISN'T the PS5 get output by the receiver?
Everything goes into the TV via receiver. That's why modern receivers have 5-10 HDMI inputs.

My TV has an HDMI cable from the receiver and a power cable going into it and nothing else. Everything else plugs into the receiver.
 

ps3ud0

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
It does but that goes to my soundbar. I guess I could get a splitter for that signal for headphone use. It's a pain but manageable. Unless someone has a better suggestion?
That's what I do with my DAC and speakers. It's not that expensive to setup. In my setup though it is just a splitter so have to remember to switch off the speakers when I want to use headphones...

ps3ud0 8)
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,869
Everything goes into the TV via receiver. That's why modern receivers have 5-10 HDMI inputs.

Please don't let this be just quickly throwing out a number just to emphasize the focus of a receiver and let this be something you've seen.... Have you actually really seen one with 10 inputs? Most of the ones I've looked at peak out at 7 and maybe there's the rarity of an 8, but nothing in the 9 and 10 range.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,478
It can do lossless stereo audio, which is all you need for headphones.
The advantage it has over HDMI is that it's electrically isolated—which can really make a difference when using low-impedance headphones with some devices, or less expensive DACs. I have a Behringer audio interface that is very prone to picking up noise if it's not isolated. And in some setups, HDMI has a large delay.
It's also much easier/cheaper to record if you're wanting to capture audio.

Being an older standard does not mean it's obsolete.

That sounds like exactly the kind of subset of fringe cases that make it fine to exclude the tech on every console, provided there's an external solution... which, according to the OP, there will be.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,047
That sounds like exactly the kind of subset of fringe cases that make it fine to exclude the tech on every console, provided there's an external solution... which, according to the OP, there will be.
I intended on following up with some of the other posts here later, but since you replied to me directly:
I don't anticipate that a $40 active HDMI adapter to pass through a 48 Gbps HDMI 2.1 signal problem-free, and just for the sake of extracting S/PDIF audio.

I also won't deny that it probably makes sense for Sony/Microsoft to remove the port.
The main issue I have is with people saying that it was superseded when it still provides advantages for many setups. HDMI is not inherently better for stereo audio - particularly with headphones.
And $40 is not necessarily cheap for someone that is still holding onto an older sound system. A lot of people here act like anything less than five figures is nothing, and if you haven't upgraded your hardware recently you're being lazy about it - so something like this was the incentive you needed.
 

Shadow

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,137
Most TV's don't output surround through its own optical, correct. Some do though so you'd have to check your manual.
Current TV is a cheaper one from 2007 so probably not, but I'll check.

It would have 5.1 if you use a lossy format like DTS / Dolby Digital. You just won't get 5.1 over lossless formats like DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD. Your TV has to support passthrough of those bitstream formats, too.
Ok got it. I'll have to check if my tv supports the formats, as I said above, probably not.

Thanks!
 

LightKiosk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,479
Fair enough. Does your monitor have an audio out back for headphones or speakers? If it does, you could go console -> monitor -> sound bar maybe?

As an update, I tested it with my Switch and it works. Monitor audio in OSD set to 100, Switch going to monitor via HDMI and 3.5mm from monitor going to line-in on PC which is set to listen-in on PC with Default playback device. Switch audio active only when on that input which is exactly what I wanted. I can just repeat this same exact process with PS5 HDMI going directly into monitor and I'm all good as the rest is already set up from the PC end.

Bless monitors with 3.5mm out ports.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,221
Washington, D.C.
As an update, I tested it with my Switch and it works. Monitor audio in OSD set to 100, Switch going to monitor via HDMI and 3.5mm from monitor going to line-in on PC which is set to listen-in on PC with Default playback device. Switch audio active only when on that input which is exactly what I wanted. I can just repeat this same exact process with PS5 HDMI going directly into monitor and I'm all good as the rest is already set up from the PC end.

Bless monitors with 3.5mm out ports.
Huzzah! Glad it worked!
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
So what HDMI 2.1 full spec splitter do people recommend? Will they all have to use some sort of power and use a USB port or wall port?
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
PS5 HDMI -> HDMI Input on Receiver -> HDMI Output Receiver -> HDMI TV
Audio receivers with HDMI have passthrough so that it takes the sound signal and pushes the video signal to your display.

thanks - but does this mean then that my receiver have to be turned on in order for my TV to display the PS5? Like, if I just want to use the PS5 without using my receiver and sound system in order to save electricity?

and are there actually any gaming headsets that has this double HDMI port (passthrough) yet? if not, then the ps5 already seems crippled.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,221
Washington, D.C.
thanks - but does this mean then that my receiver have to be turned on in order for my TV to display the PS5? Like, if I just want to use the PS5 without using my receiver and sound system in order to save electricity?

and are there actually any gaming headsets that has this double HDMI port (passthrough) yet? if not, then the ps5 already seems crippled.
Some receivers do passthrough if the receiver is off, so it won't have to be on
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,869
thanks - but does this mean then that my receiver have to be turned on in order for my TV to display the PS5? Like, if I just want to use the PS5 without using my receiver and sound system in order to save electricity?

If your receiver supports pass through while off, you can do it, but it's probably not a common feature on lower end receivers. You're probably better served with ARC/eARC if you want to turn your receiver off sometimes. I just wouldn't bother trying to micromanage the electricity usage though. It won't save you much doing so.
 
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MattDoza

Member
Oct 27, 2017
207
Eastern WA
*cries in Acrtis Pro Wireless*

Hopefully Steelseries can get the DAC to work just over USB like it does on PC. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 

Lord Error

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,374
It would have 5.1 if you use a lossy format like DTS / Dolby Digital. You just won't get 5.1 over lossless formats like DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD. Your TV has to support passthrough of those bitstream formats, too.
I have a LG OLED TV from 2015 (I think) and I only get stereo from the TV optical throughput. No DD5.1 no DTS (the two old formats that Toslink supports). I can get both the DD5.1 and DTS when plugging receiver directly into PS4 however. I think this is generally the case with most TVs that are not absolute newest from what I've heard.
I doubt this TV has eArc, but I'll have to check if it has a dedicated HDMI port for that. It would simplify my cables significantly if I could do this, not to mention improve my next gen console situation.
 

Arkham

Member
Nov 12, 2017
322
I have a LG C9, Ps4 Pro and recently acquired the Arctis Pro Wireless Headset. This headset was a big investment to me and this thread has me worried about not being able to use the Pro Wireless with surround sound via Optical.

What the heck are my options at this point? Frustatring af. 😔

Tell me about it. I have the same gear. I wonder if we'll be able to just survive via USB. Fuck I hate audio connections.

You guys don't have optical out on your TV's?

The C9's optical is buggy from what I hear. :(
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,221
Washington, D.C.
I have a LG OLED TV from 2015 (I think) and I only get stereo from the TV optical throughput. No DD5.1 no DTS (the two old formats that Toslink supports). I can get both the DD5.1 and DTS when plugging receiver directly into PS4 however. I think this is generally the case with most TVs that are not absolute newest from what I've heard.
I doubt this TV has eArc, but I'll have to check if it has a dedicated HDMI port for that. It would simplify my cables significantly if I could do this, not to mention improve my next gen console situation.
Make sure audio out is set to bitstream on both the TV and the PS4 (not PCM)
 

Aswitch

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,128
Los Angeles, CA
Ugh this just hurts me alot. Heavily relied on Optical since 360/PS3 Gen. Have my headsets hooked up with that in mind. I have an audio extractor setup to pull it from hdmi though so as long as that's the same quality, this will lessen the impact for me. Feels close to samsung and apple dropping the headphone port to me. Yeah it's old, but just reliable an expected to me ig. But nintendo hasn't used it and I managed to workaround that so.
 
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2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,580
Disappointing, but not surprising.

I hope the optical splitter mentioned is not specific to Astro stuff and not too pricy. I don't have Astro stuff, but run the optical out separately from HDMI currently. I'd totally buy one for PS5 and/or Series X to keep my current setup intact.
 

Aswitch

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,128
Los Angeles, CA
thanks - but does this mean then that my receiver have to be turned on in order for my TV to display the PS5? Like, if I just want to use the PS5 without using my receiver and sound system in order to save electricity?

and are there actually any gaming headsets that has this double HDMI port (passthrough) yet? if not, then the ps5 already seems crippled.
My Onkyo receiver has that feature(standby) where you can set it to the last used hdmi port or dedicate a specific hdmi port to passthrough when it's powered off. Another thing to be aware of though is that there isn't an offical hdmi 2.1 receiver released so far so you would be bottlenecked to 4k60fps(depending on your receiver and tv capabilites).
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
Some receivers do passthrough if the receiver is off, so it won't have to be on
If your receiver supports pass through while off, you can do it, but it's probably not a common feature on lower end receivers. You're probably better served with ARC/eARC if you want to turn your receiver off sometimes. I just wouldn't bother trying to micromanage the electricity usage though. It won't save you much doing so.

My Onkyo receiver has that feature(standby) where you can set it to the last used hdmi port or dedicate a specific hdmi port to passthrough when it's powered off. Another thing to be aware of though is that there isn't an offical hdmi 2.1 receiver released so far so you would be bottlenecked to 4k60fps(depending on your receiver and tv capabilites).

thanks - but what a shitshow I must see. Everything is just needlessly complicated instead of just having a dedicated audio port on the PS5.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,221
Washington, D.C.
thanks - but what a shitshow I must see. Everything is just needlessly complicated instead of just having a dedicated audio port on the PS5.
I mean, you can always just use an extractor at that point and create an optical port. Optical is old tech for audio. The bandwidth is severely limited and it can't carry HD audio formats.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,869
thanks - but what a shitshow I must see. Everything is just needlessly complicated instead of just having a dedicated audio port on the PS5.

I know everyone has different setups, but I've always found using HDMI for everything funneled into the receiver and then a single HDMI cable to the TV to be anything but complicated. If anything, it's way more simple than how things used to be when I had component cables, optical cables, etc all scattered about and I've been like that for 12 years now. I would even argue trying to micromanage the power usage on the receiver is way more needlessly complicated than my current setup.
 

Deleted member 9857

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,977
*cries in Acrtis Pro Wireless*

Hopefully Steelseries can get the DAC to work just over USB like it does on PC. Keeping my fingers crossed.

hopefully they'll work to make it compatible with the Series X as well :-/ the A50s are gonna be updated to do so but Steelseries approach has been buy a headset that natively supports Xbox instead *face palm*
 

Venture

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,585
Disappointing, but not surprising.

I hope the optical splitter mentioned is not specific to Astro stuff and not too pricy. I don't have Astro stuff, but run the optical out separately from HDMI currently. I'd totally buy one for PS5 and/or Series X to keep my current setup intact.
There's a lot of them already available for around $20 and up. The only thing I don't like is that all of them seem to require am external power source.