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Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
I think video game graphics doing reflections so poorly and inaccuarately for so long has made many people who play them often think the world is much less shiny than it really is. Definitely agree with you there.
My very matte keyboard as well current has a darkened reflection of my hand easily visible on it too!
I am still disagree with you on that. Yes, real world is more shiny than what game tends to represents, but the effect in Control is still too much, especially on matte surface like concrete.
The thing is, there is a big impact between the viewing angle and reflexion. For exemple, in my office, this is a wood flooring. If the viewing angle between me, the floor, and the object is close to 90°, almost no reflexion. But if I do the same thing while crouching, I can see the reflexion becoming more apparent. If I lie down (while managing not to be seen by my coworkers), so the angle is almost 0°, this is a reflexion fest.
But I don't think RT managed that and this is why it is a reflexion fest not matter what is the angle.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,396
Seattle
Im trying to stay optimistic with the haptics but i currently dont enjoy any form of haptics on any system. Turn them off immediately. So have my doubts that I will find the new version useful/enjoyable
Yeah haptics tend to be a "deja vu" scenario as we've heard the same marketing for almost every rumble advancement over the years.

But personally I don't turn them off, and do have some hope that they really will wow me so we'll see.
 

MakgSnake

Member
Dec 18, 2019
608
Canada
Here is another look. The USB Port seems different..

EN2NjYaX0AEXnH8
 

MakgSnake

Member
Dec 18, 2019
608
Canada
I'm liking the extra chunky look, although I prefer my ps4 over my xbox I think the xbox pad is better, actually I'd argue the switch pro controller is the best of them all
Really eh. I like the feel of the Switch Pro controller but not the over all look. Looked very MadCatz.

I love DS4 controller. I hope they don't change much for DS5 and that apparent leak image is real.

I love Xbox One controller as well. Sits so well. So glad they didn't change much on Series X controller but heard they are making it smaller. Not sure how I feel about that.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
6,749
United States
The problem is that the last two gens have both seen one of the major companies fuck up in a large, loud fashion by what is essentially coincidence. The sixth generation is indeed how I expect this to go in terms of companies retaining their current market share. And again - things like the 360 quadrupling the Xbox market share and the X1 cratering are due to specific things that we already know aren't happening this time around.

I think part of this is that I feel a few more things are known than you do. I'm now pretty much at the point where I'm treating Klee's info as almost certainly true, so I think we can argue under the assumption that both consoles will be $499 12-13TF boxes.



MS bringing two consoles is, I agree, the big shakeup, which may well shift more marketshare their way - though I still find it questionable. Keeping your current PlayStation library, saving money by trading in your PS4, and getting a much more performant console seems like a better deal to me than saving $150-200 on Lockhart. They might get more PS4 owners buying Lockhart as a secondary machine, though. As for MS not having all their problems this time... it will certainly help, but I feel like it will only put them on par with Sony at launch. Honestly, I feel like Game Pass might be more effective at dragging Sony fans over the line.

Really, we can't be sure of a lot of things. But I do think that at this point we can pretty definitively say there won't be a screwup on the scale of PS3 or X1 this time, which is why I still disagree with using them as examples. It feels like in the past, console hardware creation and launching was more twisted and experimental, with weird technology, different release dates and hubristic fence-swinging, but it's now stabilised into something more straightforward and predictable. Which is good for removing barriers to game creation.

That's a fair take. I don't really disagree at a macro level, and my personal bet would also be that PS5 is closer to 12 than 9.

But to be clear, the only precedent we have for a $200 price gap is the gen when Sony got roasted for their high price and MS quadrupled their share. If Lock really comes in at $299 and PS5 is at $499, I would consider no significant change in market share to be the bigger surprise.

Microsoft must have projected that both Series X and PS5 will have near similar performance and they will both be priced at $499 for the Lockhart strategy to be effective. Beyond being able to undercut PS5 in price significantly, Microsoft can offer an upgrade path to the more powerful Series X with a trade-in offer. I suspect those units may end up in Microsoft's next gen xCloud offering. If the performance difference is much larger (assuming the 9 vs 12 Tflops rumor holds) then Sony will have to lower the price of the PS5 closer to $399 which will make it much harder to sell Lockhart.

I agree and believe strongly that if PS5 is confirmed 12TF+ $499, MS will be the ones holding the biggest party the next day. They would love for their biggest competitor to limit their own audience to enthusiasts for as long as possible.
 

Aladan

Member
Dec 23, 2019
496
Sony gives developers access to low-level API so they could "code to the metal". It's great for squeezing more out of the console, but it means that if the metal changes, things could break. In order to have full BC support with no performance issues or bugs, Sony needs the PS5 to mimic the PS4's hardware perfectly.

RDNA knows how to do that, GCN is a subset of RDNA so if RNDA disables certain parts like shared cache between WGPs, it basically transforms back into GCN. The exact same things happen in the CPU, using the Mark Cerny patent, it shuts down everything that makes it Zen until you are left with a Jaguar. That's Sony's BC mode, transforming the hardware to match old hardware. In addition, Sony matches the clocks of the original hardware, that wow they achieve 1:1 emulation.

Sony allows the user to boost the hardware in BC mode, which means up the clocks to PS5 specs and the same goes for memory bandwidth. So in boost mode, in theory, the GPU will act just like a PS4 Pro GCN GPU running at 2Ghz (if that's the PS5 clock) and a Jaguar CPU running at 3.2Ghz (if that's the PS5 clock). If we assume PS5 has 2Ghz GPU, 3.2Ghz CPU and 572GB/s memory, it means that in boost mode BC games will enjoy an increase of:
PS4 Boost Mode:
CPU - 100%
GPU - 150%
Memory Bandwidth - 227%

PS4 Pro Boost Mode:
CPU - 50%
GPU - 120%
Memory Bandwidth - 164%

Thank you for the reply. :)

Sounds like this whole process could be done on any Zen/Navi combination Sony may use. But how will Microsoft do this?
 

Hockeymac18

Member
Nov 14, 2017
832
Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a growing, vocal and loud anti-Playstation narrative in this thread of late.

And it's kinda strange because everything that's being contested has actually been previously officially addressed or announced.

Weird.
I'm not really picking up on any anti-PlayStation vibes... If anything, the majority of this thread is (overall very positive) discussion of the PS5. There also isn't as much talk of Xbox, comparatively.
 
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riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,396
Seattle
Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a growing, vocal and loud anti-Playstation narrative in this thread of late.

And it's kinda strange because everything that's being contested has actually been previously officially addressed or announced.

Weird.
There are some Playstation fans who are really want more info and are mad and/or worried because they feel like there is more info for Xbox than Playstation (or at least more solid guesses).

It amplifies into seemingly more "anti-Playstation" than it is... a lot of it really is people who are PS fans who are now worried because of lack of information. There's some concern trolling but it's mostly just overly-concerned PS fans as far as I can tell.

And a few big Xbox fans scattered about being overly pessimistic towards Playstation of course lol
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
Thank you for the replay. :)

Sounds like this whole process could be done on any Zen/Navi combination Sony may use. But how will Microsoft do this?
MS MO works more like a PC. Developers code to a thick API layer that abstracts the hardware, think of it as a translator. It means that developers have less low-level access, but when MS replaces the hardware under the hood, they can update the "translator" to work on the new hardware.
 

shyhh

Member
Jan 7, 2020
20
This. When I had PSX as a kid I had 5 games total, after years. Similar story with X360(but I became adult midgen, so I had more money later on). Ability for parents to ensure steady cost and game package is huge. And as a kid I played on old TVs and monitors, so I seriously doubt they will care about fidelity that much, as many PC gamers that still enjoy the hobby despite having rather weak rig.

I think many overlooked how subscription models like Game Pass can do to the industry as a whole. How most profits are made by a handful of games while many quality ones go unnoticed. Subscription allows gamers to rediscover games in the most economic way while at the same time provide a steady income to as many game developers as possible. While i personally did not sign up to Game Pass, i am sure many will and that is a good thing :)
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
EN2NjYTXUAAzn_Y


These are probably fake as I mentioned in the other thread but I hope they are real or close to real. Never a big fan of Light Bar.
I love the look. I liked the light bar honestly. Replacing it with some kind of low power customizable multi-color light accents on the controller would be something I would like to see.
 

Anastasis

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
What would the chances be of having RT in PS4 titles? Not just disabling cores, but using those cores for RT? Would need to be patched heavily, correct?
 

Aladan

Member
Dec 23, 2019
496
MS MO works more like a PC. Developers code to a thick API layer that abstracts the hardware, think of it as a translator. It means that developers have less low-level access, but when MS replaces the hardware under the hood, they can update the "translator" to work on the new hardware.

Thank you again DrKeo !
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
I'm not really picking up on any anti-PlayStation vibes... If anything, the majority of this thread is (overall positive) discussion of the PS5. There also isn't that much talk of Xbox comparatively.
When there is Xbox news (like Phil's chip picture) it jumps like 2 pages an hour, so it is just a slow news day.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,396
Seattle
What would the chances be of having RT in PS4 titles? Not just disabling cores, but using those cores for RT? Would need to be patched heavily, correct?
I would guess pretty high for games that already have RT support on PC.

It should be a great way to get your game noticed on the new systems as people transition.

edit: This is assuming Sony has a good path for developers to release "BC Patches" like MS does on Xbox One. If Sony is going to make BC a prominent feature they might already have those things in the works. "X number of games getting patched for launch day" is going to potentially be a metric we see coming out of this gens console race.

I never quite understood treating BC like a second class citizen.. as it encourages people to upgrade to the new generation quite nicely before tons of new "next gen" games come out.
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
What would the chances be of having RT in PS4 titles? Not just disabling cores, but using those cores for RT? Would need to be patched heavily, correct?

I don't know what kind of quality RT would be possible (framerate, number of rays per pixel, number of bounces ,etc), but I think it's safe to say that it's intense enough of a process that it would compromise what else you could do with the GPU and so won't end up in big games on current gen consoles.

Other approaches to dynamic lighting, shadows and GI (see Metro Exodus, The Tomorrow Children) are likely to provide betters results that if those games switched to straight up RT for lighting.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,556
Smaller SSD makes no sense to me which is why I said no way under $200. Smaller SSD makes this look cheap and weak to the consumer instead of a 1080p/1440p machine. If they sell it in 1-2 years time when parts are cheaper and to carry sale momentum in a similar fashion the Switch Lite did, that would make sense and tell people to buy a second xbox for the family.

If you understand that 1080p/1440p games will have much smaller assets than 4k games, why does a smaller SSD make "no sense"?
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,396
Seattle
My only concern about these new adaptive triggers is the durability over time.
That type of thing is testable; there are entire companies that do nothing but build robots that hammer on devices and simulate wear over time.

Knew a guy who worked for a company like that in Redmond; told him what laptop I had.. he told me that within 2 years my left hinge connecting my screen would crack and eventually break, and he was right lol

There's gaps in what they can test because it's not a human hand doing the testing (so no sweat, natural oils), but the actual mechanical parts are tested pretty well.
 

Searsy82

Member
May 13, 2019
863
That type of thing is testable; there are entire companies that do nothing but build robots that hammer on devices and simulate wear over time.

Knew a guy who worked for a company like that in Redmond; told him what laptop I had.. he told me that within 2 years my left hinge connecting my screen would crack and eventually break, and he was right lol

There's gaps in what they can test because it's not a human hand doing the testing (so no sweat, natural oils), but the actual mechanical parts are tested pretty well.

Oh I agree completely, and its not like any concerns I have will prevent me from buying one. Just something Im keeping an eye on. Particularly because the more fancy features something has the more they tend to cost.

They've worked great on my xbox controllers this whole generation so far. Should be fine I'd imagine.

These arent the same as the impusle triggers. The DS5 can reportedly adjust the amount of tension required to press the trigger depending on the action being perfomed in the game. Which means moving parts that are prone to wear down over time.
 

mullah88

Member
Oct 28, 2017
951
Another exciting thing about the upcoming consoles is being feature rich from the get go. We always have these consoles launching barebones and then features being added over time. I'd hope the ps5 and xsx will at least have everything the previous gen had and then more....Sony a better DVR is much needed. A high res recording and framerate please
 
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