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Project Eve first trailer (PS5/PC)
- Thread starter Rosebud
- Start date
To each their own, I guess, as I get older I find myself becoming less and less comfortable with grisley depiction of realistically rendered humans being murdered for the sake of fun gameplay, and I gravitate more towards less realistic violence in games (such as side scrollers or games based on ridiculous action vs. monsters or zombies).
We all look out our own windows. I used this point before, but I'm an illustrator and I know a lot of illustrators/cosplayers who frequently find it fun to either design or dress up as sexualized characters -- some of these people female, (meanwhile the overwhelming majority of people in this thread dictating what is okay for a female character design to be like are male) so I guess from my perspective I view all of this as kind of normal and victimless. I agree the Eden character is a cringy design, but I'm not willing to take it to the dramatic extremes that some in the thread are when complaining about it.
Only if the clothes are skin tight like those plug suits from evangelion. And have the jiggle physics from dead or alive. Otherwise you're a sexist prude who relishes in ultra violence.
/s
bingo. Though I do believe who you responding to already understands but is just playing the devils advocate to be a troll.
I was planning on staying away from the shitshow this thread has devolved into, but...
... A sexualized depiction of a character is somehow equivalent to someone comparing black people to monkies?
Do you not see how damaging sexualization of women can be at a society level?
I'm making the point that just because it's fictional means jack shit. I had to use extreme racism to go against the "It's just a video game" to prove the point that a game could dehunanize someone playing the game.
Except that I'm not? I think you've spent too much time in an echo chamber and should talk to more people.
It definitely feels like the devs are trying to mix Platinum and Yoko Taro energy together, which is both a good thing and a very very bad thing.
"Had to"? I have no idea why whenever people want to make their extreme points around here, they see to having black people be their go-to in their examples.
Overtly sexualised and specifically designed for the male gaze, for one. Generic, boring and devoid of any real personality for two.
Because some people are too stupid to understand anything else and might be able to grasp a comparison to racism. I don't see why you're too stuck up on this point. The object was to show dehumanization in games can have an effect.
It really is funny how blatantly derivative of Platinum's games this is. Even the ponytail is designed to look like Bayonetta's sashes.
Looks like she has more clothing now than in the reveal. But barely more.
Action looks good, should be interesting even if does not seem wholly original.
You really don't see why someone might take issue with your example on a personal level, or your choice to be dismissive of it as being "stuck up" on it?
i am torn between appreciation for what looks like really fun combat and kickass music and disdain for the character designs and male gaze camera work of the trailer
this thread though. dump it straight into the trash
this thread though. dump it straight into the trash
🙄
I mean, we have tons of threads about sexual assault/harassment on this very forum, on the front page. How sexual images change how we perceive the opposite sex. If you talk to anyone in person about experiences with sexual assault and sexual harassment in your community or neighborhood I bet you can get tons of information about how people feel emboldened to degrade women based on their experiences. Talk to your cosplayers about their experience with creeps in the community fam.
The problem doesn't necessarily lie with individuals creating or cosplay with sexualised characters. There's fan-art or sexualisation of characters who weren't sexualised in the first place. However, it's not abnormal to see pushback towards sexualised designs, considering there's an expectation or skewed view created as you've constantly been exposed to such designs. We've seen more than often that women are sexualised and there are numerous examples to be found as to how problematic that can be.
E.g. What's the purpose of quiet having the design she has in mgs5, other than the plot reason given in that game given as justification. Lady and Trish in DMC5 aren't as sexualised as the main characters, why is there no equivalency in that regard?
Looking at the volume of sexualised female characters there are much more characters like MC and even the person at the end of the trailer than male characters, especially in this subgenre. Show me how many character-action games don't have a sexualised design like the characters in this game.
This character is just one of them and you can agree that there's no necessity for this character to be as sexualised as she is now, right? Whether that's only in design but also framing, via camera/jiggle etc.
It doesn't seem out of place to see some criticism or pushback towards such designs as sexualised women are more than often normalised rather than being abnormal. Also, there's a difference between a sexy character and a sexualised character also, for which the latter applies to this character imo.
Idk, perhaps someone will articulate better of what I'm trying to say.
There's also no direct correlation between the violence on display and the design of the character.
anyway, I like character-action games, the combat looks cool, but the design is off-putting.
I was directly talking to another person and used a note saying it was a fucking outrageous example. That person I was talking to didn't see how fictional game characters affected real people. I used a stupid outrageously racist thing to prove that yes you can dehumanize someone in a fictional setting.
What's the actual problem. That I referenced that racism still exists with America and its a fucking travesty or that I used a black person as racism instead of some other minority to explain to a dumb poster that didn't understand that dehumanization does exist in a game.
Explain the problem to me please.
I agree, I would prefer the camera were less lecherous and the design less cringy. That's not how I do things in my game. However, I do at times find sexy character designs fun (either gender, anyone) so I'm not automatically offended by this in theory. I just find this a bit too much for my own tastes as it prevents me from taking the rest of the game seriously (not sure if it's asking to be taken seriously, I guess..).
OP
OP
There's difference between making something sexual and objectifying a character.
And in fact, gamers tend to hate when something sexual, but not for their pleasure is done (see a certain TLOU II scene).
FWIW I think there is a big difference in agency between a cosplayer wanting to dress up in a skimpy outfit and a fictional character designed to pander to a particular target demographic. The latter has no agency beyond what the designer grants her or allows her to do -- because her appearance isn't something she can control, while the former at some level is acting of their own accord. Which isn't to say that the latter can't also be objectifying, but the video game character is quite literally an object, which I think is maybe why people react more extremely to the depiction rather than what cosplayers etc. do with it.
Also I don't think people are saying what a female character design can and cannot be, just expressing their disappointment with what it is currently. For myself, personally, its much more about the spotlight sony has shone on this in light of recent events (e.g. at Actiblizz and otherwise). These kinds of games featuring these sorts of designs will always exist and I don't think there should be legislation or anything against them existing (if only because of all the slippery slopes you would end up introducing), but I think the criticism and response is important to both help keep the broader issues in mind while playing (and possibly even enjoying!) the game, as well as hopefully create things with broader and less problematic appeals in the future.
I think that's what gets me. At least Bayonetta has a fun gimmick and the character's personality is great. 2B design is sexualized but I see the appeal and even like it myself. This just feels like a mixture of both but the result is really generic.
When it's against the same old shit and sexism and base dismissals of said sexism then yeah. It's the same song and dance and I'm sick of it. It's disgusting and ridiculous.
Also they got permabanned. For previously also dismissing concerns about -underage- sexualization so I think I'm ok.
I guess my point was that there are a variety of people who enjoy this type of thing, and especially in the art/concept art world it's very common for female artists to also enjoy drawing and designing very sexualized female designs. A lot of the criticisms I see are overly reductive. In any case, I see it as a taste thing. If it's not for you, it's not for you, and leave it at that.
Exactly. Fictional characters have no agency aside from what they're given by their writers and art designers. A real-world cosplayer can do whatever she wants with her body, including making a sexy costume based on an existing design and then adjusting it to be less male-gazey. It's her choice how she presents herself to the world.
Meanwhile this character, and so many others like her, is designed by a committee of people to appeal specifically to a subset of male game and anime fans. She has no agency, she has no choice, she's simply stuck wearing whatever the art designers think is maximum sexy, similar to how A2 in Nier Automata lives in a post-apocalyptic world but somehow has not found a single pair of pants in the ruins of humanity? Who the hell is A2's butt constantly being on display for? It's not like she's a sexual being herself.
Incredible!
This thread is something else lol. Game looks sick and I'm interested to see more updates in the future.
User banned (1 month): Sexism. Trolling. Antagonizing another member. Account in junior phase.
can't imagine it with what they have shown so far. the dichotomy between this and the Forspoken thread is something else.
All of you will be ashamed of your words and deeds
*game releases, female character is portrayed way worse than anybody would have thought previously*
Ah, well. Nevertheless...
*game releases, female character is portrayed way worse than anybody would have thought previously*
Ah, well. Nevertheless...
wait wow wow wow hold up. Yoko Taro?
In any case, I agree that the male gaziness of game camera and the character design are a disservice to the otherwise awesome art direction. Main character looks like a random NPC from a Korean MMO or something. So vanilla.
Yea, but there's a subtlety to that and Atom made that point already so I'm not going to add more on that.
I'm not offended, but I'm rather disappointed 😅
User banned (1 month): Sexist trolling
I want to read more about how fictional characters have no agency and how the character should wear real pants from superhero fans with a skin-tight full body suit wearing character as their avatar, I haven't had enough yet.
https://twitter.com/yokotaro/status/1436113252241469462
He just writes "Buy" lol
But yeah it was not the positive aspects of bayonetta that I saw in the first few seconds.
However I'm a sucker for this type of world and combat.
Lots of people enjoy things that are harmful to certain communities, that doesn't mean that concerns raised by said community should be dismissed as 'a taste thing'.
That's kind of my reaction to the trailer as well, and as a result it doesn't look very interesting.
Yeah, I take it back. Looking at the trailer again now that I'm not half asleep, the character design is nowhere near as good as I initially thought it was. Still like the colour palette of it, but there's skintight and then there's that. And the gratuitous genital shots are, of course, a bit much.
If you truly can't see the difference between Rogue's design and what these developers are doing with their character and the constant crotch, chest and ass shots, that's on you.