President Biden: "I am running…no one’s pushing me out. I’m not leaving."

Nola · Jul 9, 2024

PeakPointMatrix said:
I actually agree with the Majority Report's read on AoC here. Imagine if the most radical leftists all sounded the alarm for Biden to step down, repelling the centrist dems that hold the bulk of sway on the matter because it's what the "extremists" want. She's playing politics in the smartest way:

View: https://youtu.be/epG9I3L_P-U?t=651

Maybe, I wont dismiss that explanation, but she could just do more along like the rest of the squad and mostly stay quiet or play Switzerland.

Same effect that doesn't risk a sound bite 6 years from now if Biden loses catastrophically and she's stuck with this anchor around her neck the way the Iraq War dragged down Biden, Hillary, and other Democrats in 2008.

Gavalanche · Jul 9, 2024

It's still crazy that both candidates are 80. Can you imagine having that job at 80? That is a little nuts.

NinjaScooter · Jul 10, 2024

Emwitus said:
they know the republicans do not play by the rules. democracts are so busy clamoring about mental aptitude and ability to rule. If trump was the nominees they would do the same BUT he isn't and the republics would vote for hitler. by the time they wake up and realize that this energy would be better spent to smear trump it will be too late. The goal should be to get whatever is left of Biden into power. Then kamala can take over if need be. Yall blinded.

Republicans not playing by the rules is exactly why "But Trump!" and "lets talk bout Trump being a felon!" isn't going to work. A lot of you seem to look at the elocorate as binary. Its not just an either/or.. Biden and the dems job is to get people to vote for him which is less and less likely to happen if he has to spend what's left of his campaign on the defensive, which is exactly what is happening right now and will continue to happen because Joe Biden is incapable of getting in front of a camera and sufficiently putting to rest the fear and concern that was created by his debate performance. We don't live in a perfect world and this game isn't fair. Trump and Biden are not viewed the same. Those are the cards we've been dealt and simply saying "The matter is closed" isn't going to change that.

SaintBowWow · Jul 10, 2024

Nola said:
This is one of those rare times where I think AOC has deeply missed the plot

If there is an angle Im not even sure what it is other than maybe she's trying to pivot more centrist or demonstrate she can be a good party soldier to lay the ground work for higher office? Regardless, this is one of the few times her responses come off as performative and harmful in a way AOC normally avoids.

At a certain point it just becomes clear that Biden isn't stepping down and the only play is to support the party's nominee. Any further pressure to step down just makes him an ever weaker candidate in November if he's still in the race, which seems like it will be the case at this point.

Cartwynd · Jul 10, 2024

SaintBowWow said:
At a certain point it just becomes clear that Biden isn't stepping down and the only play is to support the party's nominee. Any further pressure to step down just makes him an ever weaker candidate in November if he's still in the race, which seems like it will be the case at this point.

She should just not say anything right now then. She can say all that when we are to that point.

Shizuo-Kun · Jul 10, 2024

effingvic said:
"He is running against Donald Trump, who is a man with 34 felony convictions. Not a single Republican has asked for Donald Trump to not be the nominee. I'm here to win in November"

I don't get why this is constantly brought up when Biden is told to step down. Saying "YOU WANT BIDEN TO STEP DOWN BECAUSE OF HIS AGE? WELL, THEN WHAT ABOUT TRUMP AND HIS CONVICITIONS?" doesn't really achieve anything. Republican figureheads, media and voters don't care about Trump's convictions, and even if they do, they want a conservative government again. I'd wager most Republican supporters don't want Biden to step down, because he's helping their campaign at this rate.

On the other hand, Democrat supporters want Trump to stop running (or to be in jail), while also calling for Biden to step down. This whataboutism regarding Trump's convictions in response to Biden criticism is getting old now and senseless. Reminding everybody that Trump is a criminal won't change the fact that Biden is a polling nightmare right now. Furthermore, the fact that so many Democrats are supporting Biden right now feels hollow and out of touch with everyday Americans, fearful for their country's future.

Maybe I could word this better, but it feels like they're making extremely valid criticism regarding Biden's age into a "YEAH, BUT WHAT ABOUT REPUBLICANS/TRUMP" thing, when it's just a Biden issue. They're preaching to people that already hate Trump/Republicans, while doing nothing to address swing voters (who they need).

SaintBowWow said:
At a certain point it just becomes clear that Biden isn't stepping down and the only play is to support the party's nominee. Any further pressure to step down just makes him an ever weaker candidate in November if he's still in the race, which seems like it will be the case at this point.

I don't doubt that many Democratic voters/politicians will continue to support Biden, but they're doing nothing to persuade those on the fence.

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

By the time AOC becomes a viable candidate for presidency, she will likely had to made a lot of concessions and sacrifices. The democratic machinery doesn't really allow full-on progressivism it seems. People really need to start thinking outside of the box, outside of electoral politics. The game is rigged, especially against the oppressed. Not saying that people shouldn't vote until there's a better way of organizing, but don't think this system is for "the people".

B-Dubs · Jul 10, 2024

Reflecting Sky said:
By the time AOC becomes a viable candidate for presidency, she will likely have to have made a lot of concessions and sacrifices. The democratic machinery doesn't really allow full-on progressivism it seems. People really need to start thinking outside of the box, outside of electoral politics. The game is rigged, especially against the oppressed. Not saying that people shouldn't vote until there's a better way of organizing, but don't think this system is for "the people".

Let's be real, calling for Biden to step down is not necessarily a progressive position. Centrists and liberals have done it too.

Real talk, it feels like people hate her because she doesn't do what they want her to do at every single point in time. She's her own person with her own opinions and beliefs. Beyond that, her job is to represent the people of her district to the best of her abilities. Her duty is to them, to make sure their voices get heard, to make sure their concerns get air, and not to any single ideology and certainly not to randos on the internet.

Macam · Jul 10, 2024

Cartwynd said:
She should just not say anything right now then. She can say all that when we are to that point.

She's just answering the question she's being asked. If she didn't answer, you'd all be yelling at her anyway for not taking your position.

B-Dubs said:
Real talk, it feels like people hate her because she doesn't do what they want her to do at every single point in time. She's her own person with her own opinions and beliefs. Beyond that, her job is to represent the people of her district to the best of her abilities. Her duty is to them, to make sure their voices get heard, to make sure their concerns get air, and not to any single ideology and certainly not to randos on the internet.

All of this.

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

B-Dubs said:
Let's be real, calling for Biden to step down is not necessarily a progressive position. Centrists and liberals have done it too.

Real talk, it feels like people hate her because she doesn't do what they want her to do at every single point in time. She's her own person with her own opinions and beliefs. Beyond that, her job is to represent the people of her district to the best of her abilities. Her duty is to them, to make sure their voices get heard, to make sure their concerns get air, and not to any single ideology and certainly not to randos on the internet.

Of course, because they are positioned further to the right I guess? They approach it from a slightly different position. But to see AOC standing up for Biden to stay in, while everything is on the line? Kinda disappointing to be honest. She might not have another choice. And that's my point; it's a machinery that filters things out.

B-Dubs · Jul 10, 2024

Reflecting Sky said:
Of course, because they are positioned further to the right I guess? They approach it from a slightly different position. But to see AOC standing up for Biden to stay in, while everything is on the line? Kinda disappointing to be honest. She might not have another choice. And that's my point; it's a machinery that filters things out.

You do realize she could just disagree with you right? Like, your opinion is not the be-all, end-all of this situation. Multiple people can see the same situation and come to different conclusions based on the evidence and their own experiences.

This is the exact sort of thing I'm talking about! She's not some perfect socialist waifu, she's an actual person who is going to do what she thinks is right. That means we're going to disagree with her from time to time and that's ok, it doesn't make her shit. It makes us all human.

Watershed · Jul 10, 2024

I will say: Biden looks and sounds a lot more "with it" during his NATO speech. Far less tripping over his words or slurring compared to other recent speeches. He also looks healthier. Whatever drugs they've given him, keep it up. This is the Joe Biden we need to see 24/7 if he isn't going to drop out.

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

B-Dubs said:
You do realize she could just disagree with you right? Like, your opinion is not the be-all, end-all of this situation. Multiple people can see the same situation and come to different conclusions based on the evidence and their own experiences.

This is the exact sort of thing I'm talking about! She's not some perfect socialist waifu, she's an actual person who is going to do what she thinks is right.

Of course. She probably has her reasons, maybe unknown for an outside perspective. And I'm in no position to be angry or something. lol

Just wish that the democratic party was more progressive, more actually left-wing than it is. There's an effort that keeps progressives away from gaining ground.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm confused. But that's how I feel right now. :p

B-Dubs · Jul 10, 2024

Reflecting Sky said:
Of course. She probably has her reasons, maybe unknown for an outside perspective. And I'm in no position to be angry or something. lol

Just wish that the democratic party was more progressive, more actually left-wing than it is. There's an effort that keeps progressives from gaining ground.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm confused. But that's how I feel right now. :p

Again, taking a specific position on whether Biden should step down or not has absolutely nothing to do with being a progressive or not. It's purely a function of "do you think he can win the election?" If yes, then there's no reason to change. If no, then a change needs to happen. Ideology shouldn't factor into this in the slightest, it's purely about your read of the American swing voter.

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

B-Dubs said:
Again, taking a specific position on whether Biden should step down or not has absolutely nothing to do with being a progressive or not. It's purely a function of "do you think he can win the election?" If yes, then there's no reason to change. If no, then a change needs to happen. Ideology shouldn't factor into this in the slightest, it's purely about your read of the American swing voter.

I think we are talking past each other to be honest.

I agree, and that was not my main issue with AOC or Biden not stepping down, and I did grasp at it wrongly. My issue is just the nature of the democratic party itself. Like the compromises made that would make a candidacy for a progressive actually realistic. This is all outside of Biden's refusal of stepping down, or AOC's endorsement.

Fallout-NL · Jul 10, 2024

B-Dubs said:
Ideology shouldn't factor into this in the slightest, it's purely about your read of the American swing voter.

That's exactly right. Plenty of time for disappointment later.

MisterSnrub · Jul 10, 2024

I'm not American so everything I say is both completely detached from the situation (albeit not emotionally) and entirely lacking anecdotal experience. Nothing new to relate, either — just adding my tuppence to the pile.

Biden seems absolutely radioactive at this point and it is deeply sad to watch the party apparatus speak anonymously while feign enthusiasm in public. It's extremely transparent and will come back to bite all of them. I honestly see no way for him to regain lost ground. It's so weird the way this is playing out, in the UK we'd have yeeted our leader in a matter of hours after a showing like that debate, esp with the years of context and warning signs that fed into it.

None of those subsequent appearances; NATO summit; Morning Joe; the ABC interview or that one where he called himself the first black woman president, are realistically doing aaaanything meaningful to convince people otherwise. It's like being browbeaten into submission, "don't believe your lying eyes", and that is far more of a winning quality among the GOP base. For anybody else, it just triggers revulsion.

Give the nomination to Kamala, and bring in somebody even younger than her for the Veep who can communicate well. I'd rather take my chances on that than hope Biden's rapidly sinking ship can make it to land before it goes under. I understand that some think they're better off sticking with Biden based on polling/incumbency advantage but I really do think Biden has hit his ceiling, people desperately want change, and simply putting younger, fresher faces on the ticket will go a long way to achieving that.

They just need to go on an absolute campaigning blitz between now and November so that everybody knows exactly what they stand for and what distinguishes them from Trump and Biden alike. It's not a guaranteed win by any means, but it's better than an all-but-certain defeat.

blastprocessor · Jul 10, 2024

Gavalanche said:
It's still crazy that both candidates are 80. Can you imagine having that job at 80? That is a little nuts.

I retired at 46 l don't know what drives people to work at 80.

Staf · Jul 10, 2024

blastprocessor said:
I retired at 46 l don't know what drives people to work at 80.

You love what you are doing? I love working as a biostatistician and i can easily see myself working past the retirement age (whatever that is when i'm old).

LordFlash · Jul 10, 2024

blastprocessor said:
I retired at 46 l don't know what drives people to work at 80.

Ego. Just pure ego.

Doubt he would be this desperate to continue to work if he was working a cashiers job.

Fallout-NL · Jul 10, 2024

Staf said:
You love what you are doing? I love working as a biostatistician and i can easily see myself working past the retirement age (whatever that is when i'm old).

Consider yourself part of an extremely lucky minority.

blastprocessor said:
I retired at 46 l don't know what drives people to work at 80.

Shit, all that oil money right :P

bremon · Jul 10, 2024

MisterSnrub said:
It's so weird the way this is playing out, in the UK we'd have yeeted our leader in a matter of hours after a showing like that debate, esp with the years of context and warning signs that fed into it.

To be fair, it's incredibly close to the election, which causes some to hesitate. Plus, UK parties change leaders like they're changing clothes. And that's when they're *in* power, if the latest Tory run is anything to go off of. Canadians tend to stick with who brought them to power and only failure tends to lead to a leadership change. Americans seem similar; the power of incumbency is generally enormous, but this is a weird year where both are vying for a second term.

ryodi · Jul 10, 2024

B-Dubs said:
You do realize she could just disagree with you right? Like, your opinion is not the be-all, end-all of this situation. Multiple people can see the same situation and come to different conclusions based on the evidence and their own experiences.

This is the exact sort of thing I'm talking about! She's not some perfect socialist waifu, she's an actual person who is going to do what she thinks is right. That means we're going to disagree with her from time to time and that's ok, it doesn't make her shit. It makes us all human.

You'd hope the more people see of Trump in that time will drive down enthusiasm for him but being a Republican means playing politics on easy mode so unless he collapses at the lecturn I expect none of his incoherent ramblings to have an affect on whether people will vote for him.

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

MisterSnrub said:
I'm not American so everything I say is both completely detached from the situation (albeit not emotionally) and entirely lacking anecdotal experience. Nothing new to relate, either — just adding my tuppence to the pile.

Biden seems absolutely radioactive at this point and it is deeply sad to watch the party apparatus speak anonymously while feign enthusiasm in public. It's extremely transparent and will come back to bite all of them. I honestly see no way for him to regain lost ground. It's so weird the way this is playing out, in the UK we'd have yeeted our leader in a matter of hours after a showing like that debate, esp with the years of context and warning signs that fed into it.

None of those subsequent appearances; NATO summit; Morning Joe; the ABC interview or that one where he called himself the first black woman president, are realistically doing aaaanything meaningful to convince people otherwise. It's like being browbeaten into submission, "don't believe your lying eyes", and that is far more of a winning quality among the GOP base. For anybody else, it just triggers revulsion.

Give the nomination to Kamala, and bring in somebody even younger than her for the Veep who can communicate well. I'd rather take my chances on that than hope Biden's rapidly sinking ship can make it to land before it goes under. I understand that some think they're better off sticking with Biden based on polling/incumbency advantage but I really do think Biden has hit his ceiling, people desperately want change, and simply putting younger, fresher faces on the ticket will go a long way to achieving that.

They just need to go on an absolute campaigning blitz between now and November so that everybody knows exactly what they stand for and what distinguishes them from Trump and Biden alike. It's not a guaranteed win by any means, but it's better than an all-but-certain defeat.

As a fellow outsider I kinda share your view. His speech at NATO was good I think, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't necessarily regained confidence in a lot of people I think.

Xorus · Jul 10, 2024

effingvic said:
View: https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1810456097402331404

Feels like a miss from AOC dying on this hill despite all the news and polls coming out. Figured she'd be more thoughtful or cautious.

As much as I agree Biden should step aside at this point, I think this is smart political calculus by AOC. She's one of the best we have, and there's no need to really wade against the nominee flow for little reward. She's with the party and nominee publically. If Biden steps down, no one's going to hold that position against her.

Starlite · Jul 10, 2024

At this point unless party leaders actually grow a spine and privately tell Biden he should step down, it simply isn't gonna happen.

Public statements from any other Democrat isn't gonna do much unless the vast majority of elected federal Dems come out against him, which is clearly also not gonna happen.

Xando · Jul 10, 2024

View: https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/1811005358049038527?s=46&t=tdfOySFNbqEXmO2PBpFsQQ

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPu6Vf67YA0

RaspberryRhythm · Jul 10, 2024

effingvic said:
View: https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1810456097402331404

Feels like a miss from AOC dying on this hill despite all the news and polls coming out. Figured she'd be more thoughtful or cautious.

she's always been an establishment shill you just werent paying attention.

this is extremely non surprising from her

cb1115 · Jul 10, 2024

View: https://x.com/politico/status/1810962954398937291?t=gUBEYQAkCXV2MYupBie1lw&s=19

if you're a Dem and have to fight to win NY...

Xando · Jul 10, 2024

cb1115 said:
View: https://x.com/politico/status/1810962954398937291?t=gUBEYQAkCXV2MYupBie1lw&s=19

if you're a Dem and have to fight to win NY...

This is like a train crash everyone sees coming but no one has the courage to tell conductor to use the emergency brake.

misery mired · Jul 10, 2024

cb1115 said:
View: https://x.com/politico/status/1810962954398937291?t=gUBEYQAkCXV2MYupBie1lw&s=19

if you're a Dem and have to fight to win NY...

new york is potentially a battleground state now? what in the ever-loving hell. the last time new york went red was before the nes came out in north america

what are some words/phrases we can start using to describe this that are stronger than "dire," "abysmal," and "a wretched gash ripping asunder the fabric of our very psyches"?

Planx · Jul 10, 2024

Xando said:
This is like a train crash everyone sees coming but no one has the courage to tell conductor to use the emergency brake.

Hold on now we've also got people telling us that actually the train is breaking speed records and we should stop being panicked for no reason

entremet · Jul 10, 2024

Xando said:
This is like a train crash everyone sees coming but no one has the courage to tell conductor to use the emergency brake.

did you read the article, it's mostly NY Dems wanting more money for campaigning lol.

NY machine politics are a joke.

Reflecting Sky · Jul 10, 2024

New York of all places. Quite an achievement I must say.

MisterSnrub · Jul 10, 2024

RaspberryRhythm said:
she's always been an establishment shill you just werent paying attention.

this is extremely non surprising from her

/s ?

Booshka · Jul 10, 2024

Gonna have to redesign the harm reduction trolley problem analogy.

Liberalism left to rot lead us here, the problem was back at the train station.

Xando · Jul 10, 2024

entremet said:
did you read the article, it's mostly NY Dems wanting more money for campaigning lol.

If the poll margin going from +23 to +8 isn't going to ring the alarm bells in camp biden i don't know what will.

I guess we're just going to pretend everything is fine and act surprised in november

Lo-Volt · Jul 10, 2024

entremet said:
did you read the article, it's mostly NY Dems wanting more money for campaigning lol.

NY machine politics are a joke.

Some of it is discussing real polling weaknesses, though (private and public polling showing Biden's support is soft, suburban pushback, Gov. Hochul winning by only six percent in her race in 2022).

MazeHaze · Jul 10, 2024

Planx said:
Hold on now we've also got people telling us that actually the train is breaking speed records and we should stop being panicked for no reason

And those same people also will excitedly scream "why is nobody asking Trump to use HIS emergency break hmm!!??? " while Trump's is completely snapped off the train and on fire.

Thordinson · Jul 10, 2024

entremet said:
did you read the article, it's mostly NY Dems wanting more money for campaigning lol.

NY machine politics are a joke.

Because they are losing in swing districts and could lose more.

If Biden is only +8 when he was +23 before, no wonder they are ringing alarm bells.

entremet · Jul 10, 2024

Xando said:
If the poll margin going from +23 to +8 isn't going to ring the alarm bells in camp biden i don't know what will.

I guess we're just going to pretend everything is fine and act surprised in november

Polls have been broken for a while. That said, Biden is weak. I agree there. And what's your solution? Kamala?

Gavalanche · Jul 10, 2024

Xando said:
If the poll margin going from +23 to +8 isn't going to ring the alarm bells in camp biden i don't know what will.

I guess we're just going to pretend everything is fine and act surprised in november

Yeah much like 2016 when everyone knew Hilary was unpopular but we all ignored it thinking it would be fine.

misery mired · Jul 10, 2024

entremet said:
did you read the article, it's mostly NY Dems wanting more money for campaigning lol.

NY machine politics are a joke.

yeah, it's more about certain districts that are now shockingly competitive or even have trump in the lead, but it sounds like the state as a whole is still biden +8. though in 2020 it was biden +23, so, uh... still a resoundingly terrible drop

kcp12304 · Jul 10, 2024

Based on a "private poll". That's very shoddy journalism when they don't name where the poll came from even if it's likely Biden is hurting swing races in NY.

Planx · Jul 10, 2024

entremet said:
Polls have been broken for a while. That said, Biden is weak. I agree there. And what's your solution? Kamala?

I've seen this claimed numerous times now. Why are they broken? I've seen some talk about the supposed 2022 red wave that never happened, but the red wave narrative was an explicit rejection of the polls and them saying "We'll win because we'll win". The other example was a handful of special elections that weren't anywhere as heavily polled as 2022 and the current cycle

Why are polls broken and what evidence do we have of that?

higemaru · Jul 10, 2024

I think NY Dems have a bigger problem than Biden which is themselves. Hochul is maybe even more unpopular than Biden, the last three governors all resigned in disgrace, the other most visible politician in the state is Eric Adams, and the GOP finally, after twenty years, has a Republican with a name in Lee Zeldin.

entremet · Jul 10, 2024

Planx said:
I've seen this claimed numerous times now. Why are they broken? I've seen some talk about the supposed 2022 red wave that never happened, but the red wave narrative was an explicit rejection of the polls and them saying "We'll win because we'll win". The other example was a handful of special elections that weren't anywhere as heavily polled as 2022 and the current cycle

Why are polls broken and what evidence do we have of that?

I've never gotten a poll. I'm not a poll denier btw. But specifically what you mentioned. Those examples. Also, I definitely think Trump can win.

higemaru said:
I think NY Dems have a bigger problem than Biden which is themselves. Hochul is maybe even more unpopular than Biden, the last three governors all resigned in disgrace, the other most visible politician in the state is Eric Adams, and the GOP finally, after twenty years, has a Republican with a name in Lee Zeldin.

Yeah, that's my read on this. Hochul and Adams are very much hated. Adams did a lot of damage with his migrant theatrics. He's basically gave the opposition tons of ammo.

Thordinson · Jul 10, 2024

entremet said:
Polls have been broken for a while. That said, Biden is weak. I agree there. And what's your solution? Kamala?

This wouldn't be broken. This would be absolutely decimated if these numbers are that far off.

But have they been?

entremet said:
I've never gotten a poll. I'm not a poll denier btw. But specifically what you mentioned. Those examples. Also, I definitely think Trump can win.

So they haven't been broken for a while. It's just a few special elections where they were off and that's precisely because they weren't heavily polled.

kmfdmpig · Jul 10, 2024

Xando said:
If the poll margin going from +23 to +8 isn't going to ring the alarm bells in camp biden i don't know what will.

I guess we're just going to pretend everything is fine and act surprised in november

It sure seems like it as more and more cowardly Dem throw their continued support behind Biden while more and more evidence of mental decline comes out. I get it. Replacing him has risk and is scary, but the status quo is untenable and the sooner the democratic leadership realizes that and takes action the better.

President Biden: "I am running…no one’s pushing me out. I’m not leaving."

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