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Oct 25, 2017
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I mean you're being pretty condescending with what you're asking here and how you're asking it. But that's unimportant

What is important is this, I don't care if Biden is the incumbent, frail, or incapable. What I care about is if that will affect his chances of winning enough to cause a visible loss and it looks like it is. So the question shouldn't be "WELL WHO IS BETTER?!" but instead "How can we turn around a bad situation that is increasingly looking worse?". If the answer is "Well stop complaining and vote harder!" then you can just log off this forum right now because that strategy won't cut it.

And what's your answer then? Biden isn't stepping down and the Dems won't remove him.

Kamala's approvals are bad but measurably better than Biden's. And I truly think she'll get a unifying bump from Democrats out of our pure desperation.


View: https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/1810347834861887522?s=46&t=zRYZP9ofkW8sFjKMKCONCg


Thank you for actually providing some substance. If it's going to be anyone it should be her, the only scenario where I can maybe see a boost.

My intent was not to be condescending, frustrated, yes, because I think we are going in circles with a lot of repeating of the same arguments that have at least been addressed almost every day and taking at face value assumptions that I see as having led to the sort of dangerous group think in 2016.

My position is that we will almost certainly lose in November with Biden, and we may lose with someone else, but the messiness of a brokered convention resulting in any of the often named candidates is far less a risk than sticking with Biden. A person who has not demonstrated confidently the capability to reverse his deficit and in polls has little room to grow positively, and due to losing a good chunk of certain demos to apathy or anger, probably makes certain states like Michigan that he needs almost certain losses. Hence me asking you what you have seen that suggests why that would magically turn around now? Cause just because you are taking the position of defending the status quo doesn't mean it doesn't require an equally robust defense. Cause democracy is on the line, and since Joe Biden seems unable to prosecute his own case as Democrats best chance, maybe someone else can do it for him?

I don't like him as the candidate either, but my thing is he isn't leaving, this is who we got, we can debate all day the merits of that. I truly believe being united behind a candidate gives us more of a chance than not, that is my only argument.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,544
I get your frustration, but if he doesn't want to step aside there's really nothing we can do.

So we either get behind him or don't. Those are the likely options at this point
Get behind what? The campaign has shown nothing but contempt for the feedback they've received since the debate. There's no plan, there's been nothing of substance that they've put forward for how they're going to counter the public's widespread perception of his inability to be President for four more years.

"Stop talking about it" isn't going to work on swing voters. Every Democratic member could stop talking about it this instant and that's not going to roll back the clock on everyone else's perceptions. And as I've been told many times as a leftist, we can't alienate those swing voters.

I'd love to move past this if the campaign could recognize their raft is stuck on a rock and that they need to do something to push off it. Telling everyone on board the raft to stop talking about the rock isn't going to do anything.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
Oh, I disagree.

It's actually a rapidly developing car crash. He's headed for a brick wall.

Our options remain the same.
There is no plan, though. His polling today is bad. The plan was the debate. Now, it's… what?

I'd feel better if there was some sort of plan besides "trust us bro" from the campaign, but they've had active antipathy towards changing anything. And part of that is because of the candidate. There's nothing wrong now with trying to do everything up until the convention to stop them from themselves.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,676
Get behind what? The campaign has shown nothing but contempt for the feedback they've received since the debate. There's no plan, there's been nothing of substance that they've put forward for how they're going to counter the public's widespread perception of his inability to be President for four more years.

"Stop talking about it" isn't going to work on swing voters. Every Democratic member could stop talking about it this instant and that's not going to roll back the clock on everyone else's perceptions. And as I've been told many times as a leftist, we can't alienate those swing voters.

I'd love to move past this if the campaign could recognize their raft is stuck on a rock and that they need to do something to push off it. Telling everyone on board the raft to stop talking about the rock isn't going to do anything.

Okay. Then keep talking about it. You can talk about it all you want.

It's not going to change anything. He's our nominee, barring a major surprise.

I suppose that there are a few more weeks to be vocal and try to rally support, but once we get to the convention, our options as Dems is to sit this election out, or quietly accept what's likely coming, or do all we can to defeat Trump.
 

Vourlis

Member
Aug 14, 2022
4,593
United States
Based on what Biden said in the Interview and today he is LITERALLY doing this.

100%

It's pretty frustrating.

I wouldn't say that. In all honesty I do think Dem leadership across the board wanted to replace Biden with someone younger/more inspiring. They were saying this "thank you for getting us across the finish line in 2020" shit for two years now.

But like I've been saying all day, Biden is the incumbent. If he wanted to run - and he clearly did and still does - what realistically could leadership have done to install anyone else? Biden likely would've won a nasty "real" primary as well given his incumbency, although with hindsight one could argue an open fight would've been healthier. His best challenger would've been his VP, so that would've been off the board. Maybe top Dems like Schumer, Jeffries, Pelosi, DNC Chair, Obama come out in support of a specific candidate, but you absolutely knew they weren't going to do that.

Those calling this a tragedy of hubris are correct, but realistically, that is what Presidential campaigns are. I would also say Dem leadership has anticipated this fight being a tough one regardless.

I can't stress enough that Trump has unlocked something primal and evil in this country that no Democrat at the top of the ticket would or should take for granted. Everybody who said people just wanted a "normal" white dude at the helm so they wouldn't have to pay attention to batshit crazy politics every other day were 1000 percent correct, and the lesson that teaches is honestly extremely harrowing wrt electioneering and civic participation.

I don't think you're saying much different than how I feel tbh.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
22,465
I get your frustration, but if he doesn't want to step aside there's really nothing we can do.
I get that the nomination is ultimately in Biden's hands.

What I don't get is the patronization and smugness still present in liberals like the one in that tweet. We are in uncharted territory here. No one really knows what the best option to move forward at this point even is. So saying "Whatever, back to work" is a little..... eh? Back to work to do what? We don't even know if Biden is gonna be on the ticket anymore!
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,843
Nobody ACTUALLY wants Biden as president. Some people want him to stay because they are scared that he's the only electable candidate. But do they think he is the perfect person for the job of president? No way.

Why do we have to keep pretending this man is our one and only savior? He can barely keep it together. If the message is "vote to save democracy" and this is the choice that democracy gives us… that's not a very appealing message.

This is demonstrably, and very easily provably false. He has millions of legitimate supporters who unironically think he's the best man for the job, and should lead the party. He has a cult of personality that 40 years as a visible public servant affords.

It's likely not the majority of the party, but it is a non negligible part of it. Stop discounting it.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
6,469
I think swing voters, never Biden democrats and undecided Gen Z are more inclined to get fired up and vote for Kamala.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,544
Okay. Then keep talking about it. You can talk about it all you want.

It's not going to change anything. He's our nominee, barring a major surprise.

I suppose that there are a few more weeks to be vocal and try to rally support, but once we get to the convention, our options as Dems is to sit this election out, or quietly accept what's likely coming, or do all we can to defeat Trump.
And if he remains the nominee without a plan for countering this perception, then he's going to lose even if everyone in the party stops talking about it and fully rallies to him

The news won't stop! Swing voters won't! That's why we need to raise the alarm now. They need a plan or they need to move aside.
 

Macam

Member
Nov 8, 2018
2,017
Okay. Then keep talking about it. You can talk about it all you want.

It's not going to change anything. He's our nominee, barring a major surprise.

I suppose that there are a few more weeks to be vocal and try to rally support, but once we get to the convention, our options as Dems is to sit this election out, or quietly accept what's likely coming, or do all we can to defeat Trump.

It's this.

You can either make calls, organize, and vote or you can sit on here and complain about the "car crash". If you're genuinely worried about a second Trump term, that might be an useful thing to do.

Polls and election results can change (hi, France), but only if you work and vote for it. It doesn't guarantee some sharp turn around or make you feel better about Biden, but presumably we're at least aligned on preventing the worst of the two outcomes.

So you despise him because he is old and thinks he has the mental faculty to run a country? Which by the way , he Is doing now.

Ding, ding.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,287
Honestly Kamala isn't the greatest candidate but Biden stepping down in favor of her could be an inspiring moment to try and repair the campaign.

It has to be Kamala. Everyone else will have to build a campaign from nothing in these months, its basically impossible.

She could still lose, mind you; but Biden's polling is so bad it seem he will lose the popular vote, which is insane. At least Kamala lets the party recognize they need a change and she can criticize the current state of the government.
Here would be my one pushback even though I largely agree and also think Harris would surprise people.

Harris Team and Biden Team reportedly don't always get along if reporting is correct. At least some of Harris's staff issues had to do with new faces more aligned with Biden than her own and it created friction. Some reporting I've read is that internally one of the reasons many in Biden's orbit are being headstrong is they feel Harris is too weak and plagued by analysis paralysis. I think they are wrong, but I don't really know how I could be certain of that.

Harris also never got off the ground much in 2020, and most conclude much of her infrastructure was bad and the campaign workroom bordered on toxic at times.

I do think it's fair to say that in regard to quickly launching an election campaign, a sitting governor or senator that just won their elections in 2022, would actually be much better positioned to quickly ramp up a functioning campaign than Harris. So that would be your Newslm, Whitmer, Shapiro, Warnock, and Wes Moore. Whitmer actually has the added benefit of being a former Vice Chair at the DNC so she has some deeper party resources she can maybe pull from.

Still, I think Harris is the obvious choice and I personally think she can win.
 

Autumn

Avenger
Apr 1, 2018
7,279
It's just that Democrats are a LOT more panicky about anything and tend to be skittish. Both the ones in office and on social media - as evidenced by this forum.
I think that a lot of people including me were confident Biden was going to win. He had the money, organization, and Trump was convicted. Things were looking up.

Yet in a span of a week the election turned upside down. Trump is no longer the focus, the supreme court gave a him a partial win and the polls are not helping.

Also a lot of negative Biden info has been dumped about his family, his personality, and inner white house workings. He was kinda a blank slate persona wise and now he's coming off as a annoying grandpa.

It's a lot for people who think that this is one of the most important elections in America history.
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,282
So you despise him because he is old and thinks he has the mental faculty to run a country? Which by the way , he Is doing now.
I despise him for not having a succession plan to pass the torch to someone capable of running an effective campaign and beating the fascists.

He goaded Trump into doing the early debate to disprove the notion he is too old to run, and failed miserably. He confirmed the worst fears of many - that he is too old to do this again.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
It's this.

You can either make calls, organize, and vote or you can sit on here and complain about the "car crash". If you're genuinely worried about a second Trump term, that might be an useful thing to do.

Polls and election results can change (hi, France), but only if you work and vote for it. It doesn't guarantee some sharp turn around or make you feel better about Biden, but presumably we're at least aligned on preventing the worst of the two outcomes.
Yeah we're trying to do something about it. Stop the car crash before it becomes impossible to not see it happen in real time. Saying "well get in line or we'll lose" is dismissive and if we do get in line, it doesn't matter. We will still lose. That's why we're losing our minds now before it's too late.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
6,469
Exactly what's the process for Biden to step down? Does he have a press conference and announce it or will just be his press secretary delivering the message?
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,843
Their plan is Thursday, putting on a good face after two weeks of quelling the party behind doors. Then Biden is on the road throughout the summer.

His best path if I'm his chief of staff is do weekly major city rallies starting in August (has to crush them all), end with a run through the south and rust belt, have Harris do a "Sister Mala" Divine 9 tour through HBCUs and colleges with large minority populations, and do whatever it takes to get a ceasefire in I-P to salvage at least something of the youth vote (ceasing aid to Israel outright will for sure doom him). Promise AOC and/or Whitmer a cabinet position or committee they'd like to get them stumping, have Obama tour again in late October to bring it home. And hope Trump falls or something.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
15,349
I think that a lot of people including me were confident Biden was going to win. He had the money, organization, and Trump was convicted. Things were looking up.

Yet in a span of a week the election turned upside down. Trump is no longer the focus, the supreme court gave a him a partial win and the polls are not helping.

Also a lot of negative Biden info has been dumped about his family, his personality, and inner white house workings. He was kinda a blank slate persona wise and now he's coming off as a annoying grandpa.

It's a lot for people who think that this is one of the most important elections in America history.
The focus can and will change in the coming weeks, just like every other election. Biden having a bad news cycle 4 months before the election isn't the nail in the coffin that some on here are making it out to be.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
Their plan is Thursday, putting on a good face after two weeks of quelling the party behind doors. Then Biden is on the road throughout the summer.

His best path if I'm his chief of staff is do weekly major city rallies starting in August (has to crush them all), end with a run through the south and rust belt, have Harris do a "Sister Mala" Divine 9 tour through HBCUs and colleges with large minority populations, and do whatever it takes to get a ceasefire in I-P to salvage at least something of the youth vote (ceasing aid to Israel outright will for sure doom him). Promise AOC and/or Whitmer a cabinet position or committee they'd like to get them stumping, have Obama tour again in late October to bring it home. And hope Trump falls or something.
That was their plan this past spring, and that the debate would change stuff and then then convention and then… the problem is that he is incapable of doing the level of campaigning necessary to do what you're asking. I just don't believe he's up to doing what you think he can do. The campaign has not shown his ability to do the stuff he needs to do, like a town hall, in order to do literally anything to assuage voter concerns about his mental acuity. How is he attacking that concern? The problem is, he can't. That's the worry.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,479
The problem with the "this will all pass with another news cycle" is the nature of the issue Biden has, and the fact that he doesn't seem at all equipped to take the necessary action to put this issue in the past. Every time he speaks in public it's going to be a constant reminder of this. Every time he does an interview. His team are going to have to go back to their initial strategy which was essentially to hide him from the media. During a Presidential campaign. He likely won't do another debate because he simply isn't capable of them anymore. I no longer have much faith in Biden or his team and don't really see any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt considering how much of an outright disaster the debate was.

Can Biden complete the duties necessary to be President? Sure. He'll have an entire team behind him assuming he wins re-election. He can always step down later. Whatever. We can argue about that, that's not really at issue.

Is Biden capable of running a successful presidential campaign? That's a distinctly different question and this is where I have my doubts. I don't think he is physically able to do that.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,287
And what's your answer then? Biden isn't stepping down and the Dems won't remove him.



Thank you for actually providing some substance. If it's going to be anyone it should be her, the only scenario where I can maybe see a boost.



I don't like him as the candidate either, but my thing is he isn't leaving, this is who we got, we can debate all day the merits of that. I truly believe being united behind a candidate gives us more of a chance than not, that is my only argument.
People pushed that message discipline attack in 2016 and it didn't get us anywhere.

The party opened up the field in 2020 and created a healthy debate to weed out weakness and galvanize strength of purpose.

I do not believe that a strategy of "ignore our lying eyes and ears" is an effective one.

As for me, I've called and sent messages with my rep's office that I support them if they publicly push for Biden to exit and that I feel changing up the ticket is scary, but it could be a jolt of energy to a party that desperately needs it.

I'd encourage anyone else to do the same

If anyone is in a union that makes endorsements for Democrats, I would encourage them to voice their frustrations as well.

If Biden makes it thru the convention I'll pivot to encouraging people to vote as I have always done(it won't mean I will gaslight reality though), but, I am not someone that subscribes to the idea that we've done nothing and we're all out of options so better to just keep doing nothing.
 
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RSena7

Member
Oct 26, 2017
355
Harris/Walz would make me feel the most secure. The mass appeal for voting for Biden stems exclusively from people voting against Trump. Biden's approval rating was already not doing great before the debate despite the US economy (based on the classic metrics) doing great compared to the rest of the world, the IRA, the aggressive FTC, student loan debt relief, rescheduling marijuana, making non-competes illegal, ending the rail strike and helping get rail workings sick leave, getting the US on the path toward high speed rail and increased Amtrak frequencies, onshoring semiconductor research and manufacturing with the CHIPS Act, galvanizing the world for Ukraine, and other things I am probably forgetting. Problem is, he is unable to effectively advocate for his record.

Harris can latch on to the Administration's wins while dispensing of Biden's lackluster aesthetics. Walz is the perfect pair with Harris. He's older, white, experienced as a governor and congressperson, and he has some serious left wing bonafides. I know almost nothing about campaign finance and ballot rules, but I assume Harris being part of the campaign would alleviate those potential concerns, too.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,843
That was their plan this past spring, and that the debate would change stuff and then then convention and then… the problem is that he is incapable of doing the level of campaigning necessary to do what you're asking. I just don't believe he's up to doing what you think he can do. The campaign has not shown his ability to do the stuff he needs to do, like a town hall, in order to do literally anything to assuage voter concerns about his mental acuity. How is he attacking that concern? The problem is, he can't. That's the worry.

I don't necessarily disagree with you and those who don't think he's capable. I'm just saying him actually doing the thing is his only route.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
The focus can and will change in the coming weeks, just like every other election. Biden having a bad news cycle 4 months before the election isn't the nail in the coffin that some on here are making it out to be.
It's only one news cycle if you believe he'll never have another moment like the debate, or to a lesser extent, the ABC interview. Are you confident about that?
 

PawPrints

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,504
Polling in the last few cycles has a rapidly increasing right-wing bias just based on methodology and engagement. We're not answering calls from pollsters like they are. We aren't living in our political reality like they are. We've seen it in the midterms, we've seen it in the special elections, we've just seen in it in France. Hell, even the UK, the reform party underperformed their polling by a fair bit (showing as high as 20% in the week ahead of the election and pulling 14%)

In Canada, the polling for Trudeau was dire only a couple months prior to the previous election. It swung in the two months ahead of the election as everyone became more engaged in the cycle.

I believe that will happen as here but they need to avoid as many own-goals as possible.

I agree to an extent.


Nobody snatches defeat from the jaws of victory quite like the Democratic Party.

This is gonna keep happening as long as these old pearl clutching Democrats are still around. There should really be an age limit to these positions
 

FinalRPG

Member
Oct 27, 2017
659
This is demonstrably, and very easily provably false. He has millions of legitimate supporters who unironically think he's the best man for the job, and should lead the party. He has a cult of personality that 40 years as a visible public servant affords.

It's likely not the majority of the party, but it is a non negligible part of it. Stop discounting it.

I believe this in 2020, I don't believe this in 2024. You say it's easily provable so… can you show me this proof that millions of people want him because they think he's the best?
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
15,349
It's only one news cycle if you believe he'll never have another moment like the debate, or to a lesser extent, the ABC interview. Are you confident about that?
He doesn't need to be perfect up to the election, he just needs more performances like from is SOTU and North Carolina speeches to give people confidence in him. He still capable of giving inspirational speeches.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,544
So you despise him because he is old and thinks he has the mental faculty to run a country? Which by the way , he Is doing now.
The reports we get out of his administration are that no, he's not doing that

  • One former Biden aide told Axios: "Annie, Ashley and Anthony create a protective bubble around POTUS. He's staffed so closely that he's lost all independence. POTUS relies on staff to nudge him with reminders of who he's meeting, including former staffers and advisers who Biden should easily remember without a reminder from Annie.
During meetings with aides who are putting together formal briefings they'll deliver to Biden, some senior officials have at times gone to great lengths to curate the information being presented in an effort to avoid provoking a negative reaction.

"It's like, 'You can't include that, that will set him off,' or 'Put that in, he likes that,'" said one senior administration official. "It's a Rorschach test, not a briefing. Because he is not a pleasant person to be around when he's being briefed. It's very difficult, and people are scared shitless of him."

It's not just those aides. Democrats frustrated with Biden's insular senior team are well acquainted with the longtime aides who continue to have the president's ear: Mike Donilon, Steve Ricchetti and Bruce Reed, as well as Ted Kaufman and Klain on the outside. "It's the same people — he has not changed those people for 40 years," said one Democratic operative and close adviser to several members of Congress, who blamed the entire group for refusing to shift course even as Biden trailed Trump for months in the polls. "All these guys running the campaign from the White House is not working."


As a Democratic strategist in a battleground state put it: "The number of people who have access to the president has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. They've been digging deeper into the bunker for months now." And, the strategist said, "the more you get into the bunker, the less you listen to anyone."

"There's definitely groupthink," one Democratic donor-adviser said about Biden's inner circle. "They've known each other a long time. They're kind of a team of rivals. But they're not going to challenge him."

A Democratic operative in frequent communication with the White House and the campaign said suggestions can be quickly dismissed. "If I'm talking to Anita, and I say, 'what about X?' She's quick to say, 'The president's not going to do that. No chance.' It shuts off options, yes, but it also [lets] you move more quickly because they know him so well."

Another operative painted a similar picture: "They don't take dissent," they said. "If you try, then you don't get invited to the next call, the next meeting."


They're closing access to the President off and allowing the administration around him to keep ticking away. Is he directing and leading the country, or does he need his staff to curate his information so he doesn't have a tantrum?
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
He doesn't need to be perfect up to the election, he just needs more performances like from is SOTU and North Carolina speeches to give people confidence in him.
That wasn't the question. Are you confident that Biden won't have another moment like the debate or the ABC interview? Those are two of the few unstructured and live events we've had from him. What's going happen when he has to do another one, if his campaign lets him?
 

Nahbac

Member
Nov 11, 2018
2,201
I believe this in 2020, I don't believe this in 2024. You say it's easily provable so… can you show me this proof that millions of people want him because they think he's the best?
I don't think you're gonna be able to prove millions want him because they think he's the best, but you can look at polls of Democratic voters (~60% of whom want him to keep running), the fact he received over ten million votes in a primary that was already decided before it began, and the fact he's raised some of the most money of his entire campaign after the debate debacle.

We can use the poll stat to extrapolate that yes, there are millions of Democrats that think he's the best person right now. Plus people voting for him in a primary when they really didn't need to
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,843
I believe this in 2020, I don't believe this in 2024. You say it's easily provable so… can you show me this proof that millions of people want him because they think he's the best?

A non negligible amount of polled Democrats think he's fit for the job. At least as many as a fourth of them. I think it's safe to assume at his level of notoriety there are millions of supporters.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
15,349
That wasn't the question. Are you confident that Biden won't have another moment like the debate or the ABC interview? Those are two of the few unstructured and live events we've had from him. What's going happen when he has to do another one, if his campaign lets him?
of course it's possible there's another moment like that, every candidate has the potential to bomb something like that, but I also believe he's capable to have a strong performance at one of those things.
 

NullPointer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,413
Mars
The focus can and will change in the coming weeks, just like every other election. Biden having a bad news cycle 4 months before the election isn't the nail in the coffin that some on here are making it out to be.
This is so much more than a bad news cycle, and it won't just pass with the next shiny thing.

We're going to lose. And lose to protect the egos of those too old and frail for the fight.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
of course it's possible there's another moment like that, every candidate has the potential to bomb something like that, but I also believe he's capable to have a strong performance at one of those things.
The problem is you have to convince the electorate someone they think is too old for the job isn't too old for the job. That just isn't possible. That's not how people perceive the aging process.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
17,153
You don't though, you just have to convince them that he's a better choice than Trump.
The number one concern people have with Biden is they literally don't think he can do the job. They might not love Trump but they also think he's not too old to do the basic functions. That's an extremely impossible hill to climb.
 

Valkyr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
The problem is you have to convince the electorate someone they think is too old for the job isn't too old for the job. That just isn't possible. That's not how people perceive the aging process.
I also just feel like the debate put him in a hole he can never recover from. Even in his "good" moments, he still sounds like a old man. Those clips from 2020 posted in here highlight that. The damage is done and I truly don't see a way to fix it no matter how many speeches he gives or rallies he attends.
 

FinalRPG

Member
Oct 27, 2017
659
A non negligible amount of polled Democrats think he's fit for the job. At least as many as a fourth of them. I think it's safe to assume at his level of notoriety there are millions of supporters.

That doesn't prove anything though? 1/4th of democrats think he's fit for the job is such a terrible number to start with, but it's worse because "fit for the job" doesn't mean "number 1 and/or only democrat I would vote for". How does this inspire any confidence in you?
 

Vault Boy

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,576
I love a comment I saw today on Reddit: "We've got to take Grandpa's keys away. He's not going to like it, but everybody knows he's not able to drive anymore."
 

BFIB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,145
Just a hypothetical, if Biden (which he's going to be the nominee) comes out and gives a heartfelt statement that, while he believes he could beat Trump, the message is clear that it's time to hand the reigns to Harris and have her continue the fight. You would likely get a lot of sympathy votes from moderates/independents, and Harris could be out hammering Project 2025. Make the convention about the handing of the torch, with that full court press to Harris. Sure, it's a fast track, but you could really play the sympathy vote, energize voters, and put the pressure back on the GOP with Project 2025, and abortion as the front runner issues.

But, Biden is either going to be on the levels of Lincoln on saving democracy, or a Franklin Pierce.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,104
The number one concern people have with Biden is they literally don't think he can do the job. They might not love Trump but they also think he's not too old to do the basic functions. That's an extremely impossible hill to climb.
I keep saying it but it 100% sucks that Trump has basically been the same verbally since 2016, as in he's talking in circles and going off on tangents. So since we've seen no "decline" the media is just fine with it.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,287
of course it's possible there's another moment like that, every candidate has the potential to bomb something like that, but I also believe he's capable to have a strong performance at one of those things.
Here's my current thinking

The common wisdom strategy in today's media ecosystem is to flood the zone.

Not with shit like Bannon, but with yourself

I often read that the first advice every campaign gives when you have a poor performance is get out and do the same thing over and over.

So Biden had a historical flop on his first real unstructured, reactive situation that required him to think on the fly and fight back in an ad hoc way. The main criticism emerging that Biden can fake it intermittently when he has a teleprompter and the situation is relatively controlled, but his struggles with declining health show up when he is forced to act off-the-cuff and in the moment.

The response to that would be putting Biden at press conferences, town halls, random meet and greets, discussions with foreign leaders, and various unstructured situations to demonstrate, like in 2020, that he still has it. It's what Obama did in 2012, it's what Hillary did, it's what candidates in 2020 did, including Biden.

Instead we see the opposite. A few small very curated events with short speeches and one semi tough pre-recorded interview(that I wouldn't say went great), and once again a lot of dead air from the campaign.

Which suggests to me that Biden and/or his team have calculated that the risk of doing that with Biden is greater than the risk of letting those insinuations fester…..and that is concerning. Cause it's either a campaign mismanaging the situation, which is ominous, or Biden is not capable of communicating and prosecuting his campaign in those situations and that is equally troubling.
 
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