Eh. Miro outgrew the TNT belt. He is over as shit without it, and now he's free to move up the card. It's a net positive
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Post your controversial/unpopular wrestling opinions
- Thread starter Baphomet
- Start date
Oh boy! My time to shine! Now I can post my hot takes about AEW I've had saved up
-WWE's run with black wrestlers and other minorities as champions currently, really puts how non diverse AEW's roster is main event wise
-AEW fans legit turn me away from the product. They're hostile af, and AEW basically encourages it and the unwelcoming attitude they have for fans of both WWE and AEW or, God forbid, a WWE only fan coming to check it out
-Consistently taking shots, even small ones st the competition does nothing but pop the smart ones enough to know. Vince did the same shit when he started the XFL, taking shots at the NFL, and look where that got them
-STOP. OBSESSING. OVER. RATINGS! AEW hasn't beat MNR in ratings. Only in one demo by a very very very small amount. On a competely different day. They still didn't beat them overall but fans treated it like they were WCW beating Raw week after week after week every Monday.
It's not 1997 anymore. Ratings are not the same as they were back them and neither are these stupid demographics that wrestler journalists pushed the past year or two. A ratings war isn't gonna happen between either company for a long time. If ever. Please stop trying to rekindle this flame.
- Fuck Dave Meltzer and Alverz
-WWE's run with black wrestlers and other minorities as champions currently, really puts how non diverse AEW's roster is main event wise
-AEW fans legit turn me away from the product. They're hostile af, and AEW basically encourages it and the unwelcoming attitude they have for fans of both WWE and AEW or, God forbid, a WWE only fan coming to check it out
-Consistently taking shots, even small ones st the competition does nothing but pop the smart ones enough to know. Vince did the same shit when he started the XFL, taking shots at the NFL, and look where that got them
-STOP. OBSESSING. OVER. RATINGS! AEW hasn't beat MNR in ratings. Only in one demo by a very very very small amount. On a competely different day. They still didn't beat them overall but fans treated it like they were WCW beating Raw week after week after week every Monday.
It's not 1997 anymore. Ratings are not the same as they were back them and neither are these stupid demographics that wrestler journalists pushed the past year or two. A ratings war isn't gonna happen between either company for a long time. If ever. Please stop trying to rekindle this flame.
- Fuck Dave Meltzer and Alverz
Here's my unpopular hot take. WWE is getting too much credit for having black champions now when we sat through HHH telling Booker T nappy headed people like him don't win championships there (then pinning him clean and winning the feud) and years and years and years of bullshit like the New Day's original gimmick and Seth Rollins curbstomping Big E on MLK day.
I didn't think this was controversial or unpopular, but I totally agree with this. Foley is one of my favorites of all time.
Agreed with your assessment of AEW fans. They don't completely ruin the show for me, but they are a distraction from the content. I don't want to point fingers, but as someone that came back to wrestling semi-recently, I'm bummed this forum hasn't really helped rekindle my appreciation of wrestling. The main thread here isn't titled after the content, it's about a spiteful ratings war I don't care about. This isn't welcoming at all and it reeks of fanboyism that wouldn't be tolerated on the gaming forum.
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My hot take, although maybe not unpopular, is that the AEW Women's division is still hot fucking garbage. Britt Baker is the only woman there they give consistent time to. Hikaru Shida had the worst run of any title holder in that company because of how little the AEW and TNT brass gave a shit. I don't care if it's the network's fault. This shit needs to improve dramatically.
WWE still mistreats the minority wrestlers. They've been put in stereotypical roles. Reggie is an flipping minstrel.
That's not the main thread here. That's the ratings thread, and it's a dumpster fire. We have two bonafide wrestling communities here with crossover between em:
AEW Specific:
All Elite Wrestling |OT7| Home Of Professional Wrestling
Previously on All Elite Wrestling... honestly where do I even begin. For those of you who are new to this thread or haven't followed this promotion either ever or for a while, this is the official thread for all things AEW. You can find discussions on AEW Dynamite on TNT, Dark and Elevation on...
www.resetera.com
Wrasslin' at large:
Spooktober Wrasslin |OT| THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx8Xb5VJulQ&ab_channel=TrivialGibson What is this place. There's no Hulkamaniacs here AH IT'S NOT HOT! It's time for the spookiest time of the year Mankind One of the greatest characters in wrestling history...
www.resetera.com
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- I like MJF, but sometimes he tries way to hard to be a dick that it comes of as really fake.
- Chuck Taylor is a good wrestler with a personality and he should be wrestling for the TNT title.
- Young Bucks are ok , they are not my favorite but most people seem to really really hate them on a personal level and l find that creepy.
- Chuck Taylor is a good wrestler with a personality and he should be wrestling for the TNT title.
- Young Bucks are ok , they are not my favorite but most people seem to really really hate them on a personal level and l find that creepy.
One of my controversial opinions is that nothing can be worse than WWE because Vince regularly changes things on a whim and thus literally nothing can be believed to matter. They have even announced cards a week ahead and then none of the matches happen.
They might have a cool match or two, but without a consistent context, it's meaningless.
(Also, if you read the AEW thread here, we're constantly complaining about little and not so little things, no one is calling it perfect!)
Honestly, I'm at the point that this isn't an unreasonable opinion. I said it before and I'll say it again: You don't have to watch AEW, but you *definitely* shouldn't be watching or supporting WWE.
Queue the weirdos who think that Tony Khan's father (not even Tony himself!) donating to Trump is equal to literally a bullet point list of atrocities that the McMahon family are directly involved with.
Another one is that Jim Cornette is the Steven Crowder of wrestling, and the fact that people still bring up what he says like it matters is very disappointing. Having a funny story from the mid 90's isn't worth his extremely racist and bigoted ass having any voice in the wrestling world, and the sooner he's out of it, the better.
my weird opinion: botches sometimes enhance matches by introducing a natural feeling awkwardness into an otherwise choreographed encounter.
(depends on the botch, the kind I like are ones where you see someone struggling to do something but then achieving it or a reasonable improvised reaction to a mistake, not when someone whiffs on a move by a mile.)
(depends on the botch, the kind I like are ones where you see someone struggling to do something but then achieving it or a reasonable improvised reaction to a mistake, not when someone whiffs on a move by a mile.)
Jim Cornette is a top ten all time promo. Shame hes a real life twat.
Vince McMahon is a top ten all time performer. But same as above.
Ibushi is a great in ring wrestler, easily one of the best in the world. But hes not a top guy to the level that new japan needs, hes not in the same leauge as Okada, Tana or Naito in terms of charisma. Ill just add on to this that multiple belts gimmick always suck and it killed new japan for nearly a year.
Vince McMahon is a top ten all time performer. But same as above.
Ibushi is a great in ring wrestler, easily one of the best in the world. But hes not a top guy to the level that new japan needs, hes not in the same leauge as Okada, Tana or Naito in terms of charisma. Ill just add on to this that multiple belts gimmick always suck and it killed new japan for nearly a year.
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bray wyatt sucks and has always been the worst part of everything he's been involved in.
a botch in a match between two good wrestlers usually adds to the match.
seth rollins is boring as sin, in and out of the ring. he has a good look and that's about it.
max caster isn't very good at wrestling, nor is he very good at promos. just go away heat from me.
sammy guevara won't ever be a top guy because he's incredibly unconvincing as a face or a heel.
the 4 horsewomen aren't very entertaining and have been passed by by other wrestlers (this may be a consequence of wwe booking tho)
a botch in a match between two good wrestlers usually adds to the match.
seth rollins is boring as sin, in and out of the ring. he has a good look and that's about it.
max caster isn't very good at wrestling, nor is he very good at promos. just go away heat from me.
sammy guevara won't ever be a top guy because he's incredibly unconvincing as a face or a heel.
the 4 horsewomen aren't very entertaining and have been passed by by other wrestlers (this may be a consequence of wwe booking tho)
not hot, controversial, or unpopular. just the truth.
three counts no longer make sense, and the overall structure of a scripted fight should have evolved to more closely match UFC where there are submissions, TKOs, KOs, and stoppages.
The whole "I'll let you lay on me for two seconds, make direct eye contact with the ref the entire two seconds, and then at the very last second the opponent needs to help me lift my shoulders" is embarrassingly bad, and this is coming from someone who fucking LOVES wrestling and watches hours and hours of It every week and has for over a decade.
The whole "I'll let you lay on me for two seconds, make direct eye contact with the ref the entire two seconds, and then at the very last second the opponent needs to help me lift my shoulders" is embarrassingly bad, and this is coming from someone who fucking LOVES wrestling and watches hours and hours of It every week and has for over a decade.
is any of that any dumber than "I'm going to push you to the ropes with somehow enough force to make you run at them and bounce back"? It's wrestling. Suspension of disbelief is part of the package.
Zack Sabre Jr. looks like Gumby and his ring attire doesn't help.
Hiroshi Tanahashi is a boring mid-card tier who somehow won the lottery.
The UK wrestling scene is universally terrible.
Hiroshi Tanahashi is a boring mid-card tier who somehow won the lottery.
The UK wrestling scene is universally terrible.
Wrestling fans need to stop acting like they know the wrestlers personally and know how they feel about their job or position.
"Shinsuke just wants to surf and doesn't care about his position" or "These two wrestlers are ...."
How do you know?
I remember years ago before CM Punk left, fans are vociferous in their assertions that Punk didn't that he wasn't in the main event of PPVs. Then when Punk leaves, what does he say bothered him? That he wasn't in the main event despite being champion.
"Shinsuke just wants to surf and doesn't care about his position" or "These two wrestlers are ...."
How do you know?
I remember years ago before CM Punk left, fans are vociferous in their assertions that Punk didn't that he wasn't in the main event of PPVs. Then when Punk leaves, what does he say bothered him? That he wasn't in the main event despite being champion.
It doesn't have to be dumb. It really, really doesn't.
I love comedy matches, especially as wrestling has become its own medium of artistic expression so there truly is room for every interpretation of it, but the basic formula shouldn't be two men in tights pin each other to the ground.
The basic premise should have evolved long ago to combat. That allows so much more freedom, so much more movement since not every move has to set up a pin, and it also would encourage different stories and outcomes since it would suddenly make more sense that a smaller fighter worked a bigger one, since we all know when it comes to getting knocked the fuck out it only takes a right hand regardless of size. There is no downside to changing the winning parameters, since you can still have dramatic get ups, counters, etc. when you change to MMA rules.
haha ZSJ does look like Gumby! Having a great G1 this year nonetheless!
oof, that's brutal Tana opinion I cannot agree with! I respect the guts to say that in public tho!
I dunno the UK scene but Walter is there, right? one bright spot doesn't make a scene though.
Its not about "comedy" matches. All of those established rule sets in wrestling, the things that outside of the context of professional wrestling, like a three count, like pushing guys to the ropes, like count outs, like heel champs not losing their belts on DQs or count outs, all exist in service of the match and in service of creating drama. Yes, in a vacuum a 3 count to win a match is dumb, like a lot of things in wrestling. But in the context of a heated, great match, it can serve to heighten the drama and intensity. Thats why all of these things exist. Trying to fashion things closer to "real" combat or MMA would be dumb. Just watch MMA. A "scripted" MMA fight has never not looked terrible, see RAW Underground, or see that Hager/Wardlow cage match. Wrestling is not real combat. Its not real fighting. And it seldom ever looks like a real fight or real MMA match. For good reason.
Submission, TKO, KO, etc. are all valid finishes in wrestling that happen from time to time, submissions should be used more (thank vince for thinking tapping makes people look weak). but wrestling is based on wrestling surprisingly enough, not MMA. the three count comes from that. wrestling isn't and should never be mma, worked or not. there is room for a similar style, see Bloodsport and other worked "shoot" wrestling like WXW's Ambition tournaments (these tournaments are good, you should check them out) but as a whole there isn't that much clamour for worked "shoot" fighting.
given the fact pro wrestling is essentially live theatre, finishes need to be immediately obvious to the crowd. that's why you see so much struggling on a submission and not just instant tap outs. it's why the 3 count is so pronounced. it's building up the drama and tension in the live crowd.
that is quite literally the premise of every single form of wrestling.
Do you watch wrestling outside of the US?
I don't mean to disparage, but you are completely wrong that "A "scripted" MMA fight has never not looked terrible" because they do this all the time in Japan and it works because they establish a different rule-set, and take it seriously. There are ways to kick the shit out of each other with a scripted outcome that don't look bad. It's just that the general training of wrestlers even outside the US is to the current gimmicks and spots, which aren't bad, I still love them, but wrestling will never blow up with the outlandish, dated systems it has in place currently.
If they even kept everything the same, except you no longer pin your opponent the matches just rely on a ref's stoppage I think many more people would suddenly start to watch wrestling because a fake fight that relies on a ruleset that doesn't even exist in any real fighting is dumb whereas there would at least be an immediate understanding of the win conditions if they matched closer to MMA.
I have shown literally DOZENS of people wrestling from many different promotions and the number one thing I hear is "Why do they need to pin each other? Why does this count as a pin but not that? Why don't they just knock each other out?". I hear it constantly from non-fans, more than anything else.
Just to give you some context regarding the ratings thread you mentioned.
Most of us in there will freely admit that we hate WWE and want to see its main competitor grow and challenge them.
While most people in the thread feel WWE is a terrible product, this isn't just because of some fanboy nonsense but is mostly related to the people having very real grievances with WWE as a company and the people in charge of it.
The McMahons and more specifically Vince, are horrible people with a long history of horrific actions and of treating their staff terribly. I won't go into the long list of shit Vince has done or been accused of but to say he is a monster would be an understatement.
Even if you were to look past that stuff (which people shouldn't), the way the company is run treats it's wrestlers as disposable and the booking does nothing but do long term harm to the wrestlers stock and limits their ceiling. Vince is famous for fearing he would lose his top stars to Hollywood or a competitor after the Monday night wars and so decided that no wrestler would be bigger than WWE.
Either way, while I'm happy for the wrestlers there to be making a living, WWE as a company is trash and the McMahons are terrible fucking people who should not be supported.
This sounds very Vince Russo-esque lol. The "pin" is not pushing people away from wrestling. People who watch wrestling, in 2021, know its fake. They understand that these things exist to create drama. Trying to make it more "real" isn't going to suddenly attract a wider audience. The "win conditions" aren't hard to understand or wrap your head around, and anyone who is put off by the act of a "pin" is going to be put off by any number of other incredibly over the top "fake" actions in an average wrestling match. Those people will just continue to watch UFC instead.
Sean Waltman's matches are the only good matches on any attitude era show and he still doesn't get enough credit for his work to this day.
And also, Cody Rhodes is good sometimes even great!
I also believe that mic skills aren't the be all end all way to get over, when you have guys like Dante Martin and Jungle Boy setting twitter timelines on fire while saying jack shit. Talent will always find a way regardless. Work around that shit if you have to, be a god damn promoter and promote the strengths. Don't just cut the legs off because you don't see it like most people do and think you know better.
And also, Cody Rhodes is good sometimes even great!
I also believe that mic skills aren't the be all end all way to get over, when you have guys like Dante Martin and Jungle Boy setting twitter timelines on fire while saying jack shit. Talent will always find a way regardless. Work around that shit if you have to, be a god damn promoter and promote the strengths. Don't just cut the legs off because you don't see it like most people do and think you know better.
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He is a bigger deal than Hangman and when he comes back, I fear Tony Khan is going to run with Danielson over Hangman. The people want Danielson over Kenny more than Hangman over Kenny.
If my AEW Women's division take wasn't hot then I'll come up with a new one....
"Stunning" Steve Austin in WCW was a more interesting character to me than "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. He had some the attitude but with some poise attached to it. His WCW promos really weren't that bad.
"Stunning" Steve Austin in WCW was a more interesting character to me than "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. He had some the attitude but with some poise attached to it. His WCW promos really weren't that bad.
This is the whole angle though. Kenny is a dork high on his own supply and acting like an asshole
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I just don't enjoy it , Kenny can be a good heel though (NJPW Kenny).
I will say, I'm glad Punk is back and what he's been able to do to elevate AEW's profile, but his aww shucks "Im happy to be here and want to work with all these talented young guys" persona isn't very interesting. It makes me wonder if Punk needs to be an asshole.
The point of this thread is to post controversial opnions, so I knew people woudln't agree. Either way, I wholeheartedly believe that the conditions around what makes a wrestling match are the reason why young people find it incredibly cringey and hard to follow.
UFC is more popular because there is an anarchy to it, anything can happen in those rounds. Yes, there are millions of people that will never give wrestling the time of day because it is scripted, but I will always believe that some people just want to see cool fights, but can't stand the formulaic nonsense that wrestling has become over the years. AEW is so fun because they at least lean into the dumb bullshit with The Elite and then everything else generally feels new and fun. I don't think every promotion should run like UFC, but I find it incredibly surprising there aren't some that try to run under mixed combat rules. I really think it would work and would grab a huge, new audience EDIT: in the United States.
But UFC is real. So like if a guy goes in and gets knocked out in 2 seconds, its exciting, its unexpected, it gets people talking. If a championship wrestling match ended in a 2 second knockout it would suck. The two things are not as analogous as you are portraying them to be. MMA and UFC fans aren't going to suddenly start watching wrestling if its closer to a scripted MMA match. The entire appeal of UFC/MMA (and "real" sports in general) is that they are unscripted and anything can happen. Wrestling doesn't have that luxury most of the time. So they have to work around that in different ways.
