Axiom Verge didn't click with me the way I was hoping but big props to JeremyParish for including The Mummy Demastered. Even with the initial balance issues (which seem to have been mostly ironed out now) I had a lot of fun with the game and it's great to see it still getting recognition a year from release.
Ori, technicality or not, was definitely robbed though.
here's an actual source for, uh, ori being as indie as journey, unravel, and mega man zero (i.e. not)
also for god's sake. every platformer that's not a linear a->b progression isn't a metroidvania. like, how could you possibly count vvvvvv as one? there's no new abilities, or even "keys", in the entire game.
(and cave story has one, the booster. perhaps two if you count the jelly or whatever, which is just used to get the bubbler)
also also i don't hold igavanias in high regard at all, specifically because of their level design
but i grew up on metroid games and feel that hollow knight is probably the best metroidvania that's not... those? thinking on it i suppose i could maybe see how it's closer to castlevania's Enemy Hallways but hk at least is like, less stiff (by not limiting you to one (1) static attack type per weapon)
also for god's sake. every platformer that's not a linear a->b progression isn't a metroidvania. like, how could you possibly count vvvvvv as one? there's no new abilities, or even "keys", in the entire game.
(and cave story has one, the booster. perhaps two if you count the jelly or whatever, which is just used to get the bubbler)
I honestly think there's matter to discuss about what makes a metroidvania. I admit that putting VVVVVV in this may be reaching as there's no real obstacle in your way that require something to be passed. But upgrades aren't exactly what makes a metroidvania a metroidvania. I don't know if there's a game that did it yet , but it's posssible to have a metroidvania integrating knowledge based keys instead of upgrades. Rabi Ribi comes close to that as you can completely sequence break everything and fight the "final" boss (most boss fights can be fought in any order) without a single upgrade, just by using your knowledge of how the game works.
A good example that most people will probably understand is the case of New Londo in Dark Souls. You can go to New Londo from the start, but if you're a newcomer you won't be pleased for several reasons. You can't really fight the enemies there at first, and they deal a lot of damage. But if you know what you're doing, you can unlock a late game area and an entire part of the map without ever fighting what's supposed to be the "first" boss post tutorial. You don't even need the master key to do so. You didn't get any upgrade but its just knowledge that led you to find alternative paths for new playthroughs.
I think that what is the bread and butter of metroidvanias is the idea that you have often several paths opened at any time. There's most of the time the "classic" way to beat the game, the classic path, but if you're a bit curious, try to experiment, alternative paths are there just waiting for you. The best feeling I had in a Souls was when I knew I had 4-5 paths open and I didn't know where any of these were leading me. That's a feeling that can only be induced by the usually big sprawling complex map design that you find in a "metroidvania" game. I understand "Metroivania" as an adjective that's refering to non linear 2D/3D level design, something that you find in Metroid but also the Igavanias ( SotN and post-SotN castlevanias). However, nonlinear doesn't mean that you're completely free to go anywhere freely, it requires rules to be satisfying and that's something that's quite hard to get right. And even if stacking linear levels on each other is something that works (that's the case for SotN's inverted castle and the normal castle past a certain point), I'm not sure this is the end all be all of what nonlinear level design should be.
I'm not sure if we can put Rain world in the metroidvania category according to the metroid definition (get upgrades, unlock progression) but in term of nonlinear level design, this game blown me away last year. I admit it's a hard game and not for everyone, but it tried to be creative on so many levels, that its lack of recognition keeps saddening me, especially considering its stellar level design.
I don't know if there's a game that did it yet , but it's posssible to have a metroidvania integrating knowledge based keys instead of upgrades. Rabi Ribi comes close to that as you can completely sequence break everything and fight the "final" boss (most boss fights can be fought in any order) without a single upgrade, just by using your knowledge of how the game works.
i think toki tori 2 is like that? and sort of the witness also (have played that one). i'm kind of on the fence with those though, since... yeah, not tied to actual game progression but your personal knowledge
I have that from a Humble Monthly last year. I should get around to playing it at some point.
Toki Tori 2 is well worth playing and I enjoyed most of my time with it, but I don't think it fully delivers on the potential of its premise, both because the core puzzle mechanics aren't as varied as they should have been (way too many revolve around getting a frog to burp a bubble), and because the limited control you have over the other creatures doesn't square well with the extremely precise manipulation of them required to solve puzzles, especially later in the game; it's basically the same kind of problem that a lot of physics-based puzzle games suffer from, even though TT2 has no proper physics of any kind.
Guacamelee is easily my favorite of the three here I've played, and the best non-Metroid game in this particular subgenre I've played, period.
i think toki tori 2 is like that? and sort of the witness also (have played that one). i'm kind of on the fence with those though, since... yeah, not tied to actual game progression but your personal knowledge
I actually don't think Toki Tori 2 is quite like that. I like Mark Brown, but after I actually beat the game I found that video (that was posted in here) to kinda be a misrepresentation of it. If you come across something new, you can fairly easily figure it out right then and there just by deduction and experimentation, so it's possible you'll never really get stuck. The branching paths aren't soft or hard locked so it's not really sequence breaking, it's just a mostly non-linear puzzle game by design. It's unlike The Witness where it is extremely unlikely to crack its locked doors with new mechanics unless you've found the "tutorial" panels for those mechanics and taught yourself, aka the "keys" to the doors.
Don't feel bad. I got fooled too. I don't like the game at all, which is crazy because i love the animation, the combat, and the character designs. However, none of the world design or exploration is what I'm looking for in a metroidvania experience. In fact, both games that I was hyped for, Dead Cells (which I bought and really dislike) and Chasm (which I didn't buy but looks like everything I wanted until I saw the reviews).
Check out this fairly excellent video explaining metroidvanias. I, too, seek that fluidity, combat, and character design of Dead Cells, with the world design and exploration and NON ROGUE LIGHT/LITE elements ala Symphony of the Night. Although Dark Souls is 3D, it fits the bill.
Any list that recognises the genius of Toki Tori 2+ is automatically a good list. It is the definition of a hidden gem.
Other than that, I'm really surprised by how much low-key acclaim The Mummy Demastered has gotten. There must really be something to it. Edit: Chasm, too! I completely glossed over it...
The simple reason for that is that despite their great visual qualities, none of these games make the map and the level design shine by itself (and when I mean level design, I'm not talking about looks of the levels). What makes a powerful metroidvania is the non linear exploration and how it tries to offer new ways to explore without falling back on already overused mechanics, and I think that Hollow Knight is the opposite of that, as Hollow Knight is a longer copy of Symphony of the Night, without the inverted castle. Sure the fights are good and tighter than in SotN, but it never goes beyond that: a big bug nest with plenty of linear levels very samey from a level design standpoint and a boss at the end of each area. I've read plenty of people calling it "the dark souls of metroidvanias" but too few to actually talk about the level design even though it's one of the real strengths of the Souls games. I had actually numerous flashbacks of the empty castlevania corridors while playing Hollow Knight.
I love the exploration in Hollow Knight once it gets to a certain point, I dunno what you're talking about. Suppose it's more of a "full scope exploration" than a "individual area exploration" even though I'm still digging for little things...
As much as the Greenpath made me glad that the whole game wasn't going to be visually boring, I was not sold on Hollow Knight for visuals, or music, or the 40-hour playtime.
As someone who loved finding all the Sunken Scrolls in Splatoon and find myself on the unpopular opinion side of Octo Expansion for not having it (it's a great expansion but I do not want the devs to "just do that again" for Splatoon 3), I tried searching for more shit in Axiom Verge after I'd beat the main story and I got like... maybe a couple more notes than what I'd found before. Didn't find any secret areas beyond the one I found early. When I learned that they were randomized I went "yeah, fuck that."
I love the exploration in Hollow Knight once it gets to a certain point, I dunno what you're talking about. Suppose it's more of a "full scope exploration" than a "individual area exploration" even though I'm still digging for little things...
As much as the Greenpath made me glad that the whole game wasn't going to be visually boring, I was not sold on Hollow Knight for visuals, or music, or the 40-hour playtime.
I love metroidvanias, I've been loving metroidvanias since I played super metroid nearly 20 years ago on the snes my parents got me in a garage sale. It's a genre that can take any form as long as devs are creatives. Kirby and the amazing mirror was a metroidvania while respecting nearly zero conventions of the genre (disposable upgrades, beat the bosses in any order). And indies have shown that you could expect this kind of creativity in low budget homemade games. As such, here's a list of games that weren't included in Polygon's list and that scratch the itch I have with the genre in order to explain why I have trouble with HK being heralded as the #1 indie metroidvania .
- Aquaria: by removing gravity all together and establishing a sprawling map with nearly no up nor down (the game takes place in water), it used songs for keys, and made a real effort to avoid conventions of the genre. Sadly it was made when the indies weren't the stars they are now (the pre super meat boy era, and it's funny that super meat boy has Aquaria's protagonist as an unlockable character).
- La Mulana: I played the free version back when the devs were mimicking the MSX games, and it's a rare breed, something that can't be made by the current industry, a game trusting its players, trading the usual platforming/fight/ upgrade game loop for a platforming/(hard) puzzles/(hard) fights/ Upgrade one. If someone had told me that you can put real puzzles/mysteries in a platformer I wouldn't have believed you, but La mulana exists and it's still fairly unique. I don't know any other game that tried to make this genre work. Tight level design.
- Valdis Story: A metroidvania that shines by tying its relatively tight combat with its unlockable powers that have an effect in the map. That goes a bit beyond the usual jazz (jump, double jump, dash, charged attack) and the combat system is really good while also having 4 characters you can start your playthrough as, each playing very differently. Plenty of content and a good challenge.
- Environmental Station Alpha: It's a metroidvania that could shine thanks to its grapple gameplay mechanic alone that lets you play with momentum, but it offers much more with its secrets (I don't want to spoil too much, but the game redefines what "replayability" means. The level design is incredible.
- Teslagrad: It's a shame it never was a full fledged metroidvania as the game takes place in a tower that you're climbing (hence the lack of nonlinearity in its overall level design), but the magnetism gameplay mechanics had some great traversal/level design potential, still the puzzles are decent and it manages to use well these mechanics. I loved my time with it.
- Rabi Ribi: it's an impressive metroidvania from a gameplay standpoint, as it has a completely classic way of exploring the game, but also includes hidden tricks to completely sequence break the game to no end. There are even achievements for beating the final boss first. I understand that chibi sexy school girls isn't something popular in western culture, but underneath something that can be distasteful for some, there's a great game with solid combat and some good shmup action tied to it. I wouldn't call the level design for each area flawless though. Many very flat areas with just enough to sequence break.
- Salt and Sanctuary: It's rightfully called a 2D dark souls as it uses the same stat system/various viable builds and even if the roll would have required a bit more polish, it gets the basics right and you can sense that the level design was carefully designed, as each area has a different vibe going on, pushing you to get through temples, lost kingdoms, Inca temples, underground forests, lost places hidden in the clouds. The Dark Souls concepts are never really far, but S&S manages to decently translate them in 2D, while finding some good ideas
Like the torch that opens new physical paths
.
- Rain World : not far from being my favorite 2017 game, and that's something considering that it had to compete with P5 and BotW in my heart. It's not a traditional metroidvania as there are few upgrades to get in this game, but it shines in almost every other fields. Great level design, great looks, each area has a new definition of the word "nightmare", unsettling enemies having strange behaviors, a unique and nonlinear 3D/2D level design (the areas aren't above/next to each other but are on 3 parallel planes), hidden techniques useful to flee enemies and reaching high platforms. So many good things which make RW a game that experimented maybe too much for its own sake as the main goal of the game - surviving multiple cycles while exploring in order to open karma gates- can put off considering how hard it can be to survive in some of its ecosystems.
- Treasure Adventure Game: a very interesting free game that has a remade version on steam which looks better. The hero is searching for his father he lost several years before the game starts. It's a game full of love in which you sail from isles to isles in a wind waker fashion. You have some freedom in the order you're exploring these islands, each island having its own small story arc, some being great and visually impressive but once again I won't spoil too much. I'd say it's like wind waker in 2D, in an adventure of Link side scrolling view.
Now back on topic. For me a metroidvania should aim for what Yoku's Island Express tried (played it recently and I loved it even if it's not exactly flawless): trying new ways of exploring in a 2D setting, bringing new ways to traverse a complex map while playing with the conventions of the genre.
And while HK offers much content, plenty to see, different areas to get through, rewarding boss fights, it still ends up in the middle of the road when it comes to conventions. It uses the basic combat that was used in SotN but never goes crazy. It never gets its Space jump, its spider ball, Alucard's super jump, or anything that makes you rethink the way you play those games. I admit that the pogo stick like technique with the spikes has some merit and there are some well hidden alternative paths, ways to kill/spare the life of some bosses/NPCs. But it remains a 40 hour long game in which you never have half the moveset of Alucard in SotN, a game that is half as long, or half of super metroid Samus' possibilities, super metroid being three times shorter. Despite the great qualities of its looks, and the good boss encounters, HK never goes crazy, it never subverted my expectations and gave me more content to grind my teeth on than good concepts to build upon.
And in itself it's not that bad, to each their own, bla bla bla. What I don't like though is the wrong image it gives to a genre that has still some great sand box potential, is a great experimental ground for level design and concepts, when saying that HK is the #1 indie metroidvania . Saying that Dead Cells, Hollow Knight, Rogue Legacy are what metroidvanias should aim for, completely ruins one of the core components of this genre that is level design. An attribute very hard to quantify, but a field that's still uncharted (according to Environmental Station Alpha, Rabi Ribi and Rain World).
I really want a Guacamelee 3. Part 2 was super dope. I want a 3 with some more fleshed out lore. I feel like the antagonist in 2 could have been fleshed out just a bit more for that extra emotional impact.
Glad Iconoclasts got some love. I think a lot of people overlooked it. Dig 2 is maybe my number one. I'm surprised Ori didn't make the cut. Either way, there's never been a better time to be a fan of the genre. So many good options.
No Timespinner? Also didn't really like Axiom Verge all that much, even though I finished it. Felt like it had good ideas but kinda went nowhere with them.
It's interesting that with all the metroidvanias I played this year I'm still far from burned out on the genre. Axiom Verge, Metroid Samus Returns, Ori and the Blind Forest, Steamworld Dig 2, Hollow Knight and border cases such as Dead Cells and Cave Story+ were all so much fun to play. If I had to pick a favorite it would be Hollow Knight
Look good, cool concept idea on paper, neat control.....
Unbalance, boring level design, very forgatable and repetitive music, lame sidequest, non existant story, bad menu UI.. yeah it wasn't really good. Wasn't happy with my 20 dollars....
L O L at axiom verge not only being #1 but being considered better than Hollow Knight. Axiom Verge is a Super Metroid Fan Game and I say that not with love but with contempt
Iconoclasts has the best boss fights in the genre, indie or not.
I'm enjoying Hollow Night (about 16 hours in) and all, but I've yet to see what's so fantastic about it that most people praise it as the best in the genre. It's nice, it's enjoyable, it's well-designed, but I can't find anything that sets it apart from its peers.
Guacamelee is a pure joy to play. A perfect mix of fun, challenge and exploration.
It also has one I'd consider one of the worst - the endurance match against the boss that slowly gases you to death was slow and unfun for me.. Great pixel art and an interesting if rough story, but I found Hollow Knight to be a more cohesive overall package
Hey I might as well create another thread so we can all gripe about numeral placements. Check the article here for some nice detailed explanations from Jeremy Parish on each entry.
And for ye of little time, the quick list
12.Shantae and The Pirates Curse
11. Toki Tori 2
10. The Mummy Demastered
9. The Messanger
8. Iconoclasts
7. La-Mulana 2
6. Chasm
5. Yoku's Island Express
4. Guacamelee
3. Hollow Knight
2. Steamworld Dig 2
1. Axiom Verge
It seems like a pretty strong batch of titles , I've got a few thoughts/stream of consciousness on most entries
- Shantae and the Pirates Curse is really the only shantae title I think stands as a strong game, the rest all border being some variety of solid but leave me wanting, definitely the entry to check out for the series.
- Despite being sold for literal pennies on WiiU numerous times, I've somehow yet to play Toki Tori 2, I actually somehow accidentally purchased the first when I meant to buy the second and then never got back round to playing 2. In general the concept where knowledge of the world and its puzzles are the keys to unlock the world's doors is a cool one, I think maybe the Witness fell under a similar sort of category in a way.
- I guess it makes sense that WayForward who tended to spend a lot of time cutting their teeth on tie ins would make an apparently solid one, even in this era where such things are rare in the console space, for a flop movie to boot! I've heard some on Era sing its praises.
- Iconoclasts is on my "to play before the years end" list, liking the idea of something that's more Metroid Fusion than Super, I am a big fan of Fusion.
- The original Mulana beat me down so fast I never returned, I live in fear of the second as a result.
- Chasm seems maybe like the oddity on this list? a recent title that I felt came and went but maybe I'm wrong, anyone here got anything to add to the Chasm discussion?
- Yoku is one of my fave titles this year despite its original premise sounding like hell on a slowly expanding island. Pinball mechanics have their inherently fiddly nature that led to a complete ball flingin' novice like me to be occasionally frustrated but ultimately its never tricky enough to trap you, I got my 100% and it was incredbily novel, beautiful as well. Worth looking at if the pixel stylings have worn you down and you want something completely different for the genre
- Me and Guac will never quite mesh as much as I'd like, its WRESTLEVANIA, which should be right up my alley, but the world structure, the hit and miss humour, the ho-hum upgrades and collectables, it all falls a bit flat with me. I finished 2 last week after a lot of dragging my feet, it's probably the better title, they even made those ill-fated memes from the first game almost retroactively amusing...almost but not quite.
Still the combat is punchy as heck and it has some nice platforming scenarios, takes that dual world mechanic from I wanna say Outland and runs with it.
- Hollow Knight is the true number 1, I have nothing but overflowing, gushing praise for it
- I dropped Steamworld Dig 2 halfway through, I had my fill of the digging after the first game and its expanded scope, design and then some was all good, but not enough for me to personally see it through
- Axiom Verge has some of the most inspired twists on Metroidvania items going, I feel like half the appeal is that subversion of expectations, thus I don't like mentioning what the power ups are because it feels more spoiler territory than most.
Okay, feel free to complain about the term Metroidvania in favour of your preferred exploration platformer terminology, what counts as a metroidvania and what didn't make the list
The biggest instant giveaway that Axiom Verge is going for a Metroid 1 aesthetic is the dot inside the game logo's "O." That was also a distinctive feature of the "O" in Metroid 1's font. I can't think of any other game that has that dot.
The moment I saw the game's logo, I knew it was a Metroid 1 throwback.
I love both Steamworld Dig 2 and Hollow Knight but I must say this is the first time I see someone put the former ahead of the latter in any form of context. Imo Hollow Knight is the superior title
This is purely my own subjective opinion and in no way do I mean to take away from ppl who love Hollow Knight, but I enjoyed Ori way more. Hollow Knight is a longer game with more content, but Ori was a much deeper emotional experience that will always stay with me.
Ultimately, while I enjoyed HK enough to play 55 hours of it, I think it's bc metroidvanias are my favorite genre and I enjoyed the mechanics/content. When I finished Ori, I had the same feeling as when I finish a really good book though.
Iconoclasts has the best boss fights in the genre, indie or not.
I'm enjoying Hollow Night (about 16 hours in) and all, but I've yet to see what's so fantastic about it that most people praise it as the best in the genre. It's nice, it's enjoyable, it's well-designed, but I can't find anything that sets it apart from its peers.
Guacamelee is a pure joy to play. A perfect mix of fun, challenge and exploration.
For me, the appeal is that HK is a massive game packed with secrets and unique content. If you like the art style, music, and player-driven story discovery, then I think the game really resonates. Especially if you're the type of player that enjoys the difficulty style presented in the game.
Salt&Sanctuary is not really a metroidvania game, it's really more of a souls games than anything metroid or castlevania.
You're not really dependent on powerups to progress.
It's very, very, very good sure but I don't think it's trying to be a metroidvania game at all.
That doesn't make it bad at all though.
Disagree entirely as you do in fact get various powers(brands) in Salt and Sanctuary where progress is VERY DEPENDENT that enable extended traversal through the world(walk upside down, air dash, etc...).
Many required areas and optional secrets are gated throughout the world without the use of those abilities, literally no different from a Metroid title. The threshold in which you earn them works no differently from finding a chozo statue after a boss or major milestone.
Certainly the combat mechanics and systems resemble Dark Souls(and arguably that could be considered a Metroid-like game as well), but the world in S&S taken as a whole is not dissimilar at all from much of the list.
For me, the appeal is that HK is a massive game packed with secrets and unique content. If you like the art style, music, and player-driven story discovery, then I think the game really resonates. Especially if you're the type of player that enjoys the difficulty style presented in the game.
That's the thing. I enjoy everything you mentioned except for the art style. Very good music, fun enemy design (with a few exceptions), lots of satisfying exploration and secrets, challenging bosses... But I still feel like something is missing. Also, despite being challenging, I don't get why Team Cherry chose to give bosses so much HP. I felt awesome when I beat the Soul Master without taking a single hit, but it took soooo daaaamn lonnng. Ditto for The Lost Kin: Good, challenging boss, but it must have taken upwards of 100 hits for the fight to be over. I've only upgraded my nail twice, so maybe that's why everything's taking so long.
Yea, I finished Axion Verge 100% for trophies and didn't love it. It was fine, but I'd rank it well below at least a dozen other titles.
It did have a great soundtrack and evoked classic Metroid well with some very original and unorthodox abilities. Unfortunately a lot of the gating and pathing felt obtuse, the combat was never really that great. Of the dozen+ guns to discover, only a small handful were ever useful and so few of the enemies were enjoyable to kill. Bosses filling the screen was the only interesting aspect to them as the fights were super one-note and lacked any real pattern(most involved finding the safe spot and plugging away). The climax was not really great either. I'd argue its overrated, but I can understand the appeal somewhat.
I understand Ori and the Blind Forest's exclusion because it is technically not an indie, but it feels wrong to exclude it from a list of metroidvania games by small teams. It's absolutely one of the best games of this generation, and would/should top that list.
With the exception of the brilliant Hollow Knight, most of these are merely fine games that fall into the "a novel twist on the metroidvania formula!" category.
