Politico: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[Deleted member 4090]

So what would it take to pass a law to make abortion legal in all 50 states? Regardless or Mancin and Sinema, there are a few Republican senators, such as Murkowski, who are opposed to this decision.

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A constitutional amendment. Any law straight up says "States can't pass laws that ban or restrict abortion" would be challenged and struck down by the court. Not even just by this court, but really any. The federal government is good at spending and taxes but actually restricting what states can or can't do isn't how the US government was structured. Stuff like "the drinking age must be 21" is a good example of how complicated stuff is to actually get passed in a way that withstands scrutiny.

 

[subpar spatula]

So what would it take to pass a law to make abortion legal in all 50 states? Regardless or Mancin and Sinema, there are a few Republican senators, such as Murkowski, who are opposed to this decision.

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Either somehow vote out a lot of Republicans or...

Democrats lost. Unless something drastic happens, the rights will continue to be stripped and there is nothing a protest of cardboard signs will do to change that.

Biden could literally say, "student loan will be forgiven if you vote out Republicans" and that might move the needle to where you want. But he actually has to do it first.

 

[Kraid]

I mean, voting is a potential remedy, but while the Republicans have been stacking the courts with FedSoc shitheads they've also disenfranchised millions of voters, put even more extreme gerrymanders in place... and already have the SCOTUS for a generation. The SCOTUS where five of the six "conservative jurists" were appointed by Republican presidents who lost the popular vote, and the sixth's wife tried to help plan a coup? It's just calvinball now, and the sooner we delegitimize the court the better. Just start ignoring them.

 

[less]

So what would it take to pass a law to make abortion legal in all 50 states? Regardless or Mancin and Sinema, there are a few Republican senators, such as Murkowski, who are opposed to this decision.

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The issue (one of them at least) at the end of the day is the filibuster and you're going to need to get 50+1 votes to change it enough to make a law abortion legal pass but don't hold your breath for any Republican to do that at all when Sinema and Manchin won't change the filibuster.

 

[Royalan]

Then what did you mean? I literally don't understand what your disagreement with what I posted was. Please explain. I'm not being flippant here.

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I'm going to be very blunt: I'm not going to treat you like a kid here.

I'm a Queer Black person who lives a hair's breath above the poverty line their damn selves. I take issue with the idea that I would frame any argument as justifying the suffering of people who are like me. For this reason, there is a hard limit on how far I'm willing to engage with what you wrote.

I will only distill my point further: I don't buy the motivations of a lot of people who are advocating violent revolution while downplaying voting. I don't.

 

[onadesertedisland]

A constitutional amendment at this point, but even then SCOTUS could just reinterpret it. It's a living document only when they say it is.

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Remember the quote about democracy when the right cannot achieve their goals through it, they will abandon it. They saw their path narrowing, and instead of changing their policies, sought to seize the judicial branch which is absolutely undemocratic.

 

[Hasseigaku]

"Just do..." statements are extremely frustrating right now.

The deck is stacked against us either way we go. Our votes are worth less.

If we respond with violence, the likelihood is that we will be met with disproportionate violence.

I'm not saying give up, but don't pretend like we have easy choices available to us.

 

[III-V]

I think women should call for a nation wide general strike. I hope they do. Let men that try to take away their autonomy understand the power that they have.

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Are you a woman?

 

[pirata]

This post is brought to you by: "Voting is useless. There will need to be an uprising eventually."

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Fuck you, I always vote. I don't deserve to live in a corrupt oppressive system. Do you honestly believe that you do? Do you honestly believe that I do? Do you honestly believe that everyone else in this thread deserves to? Does the existence of people who don't vote for reasons other than being manipulated by a corrupt system justify our oppression? Does it make us all deserve it? I say fuck no!

 

[Ashlette]

If you don't think voting is good enough anymore, then help out democrats in your state by donating and making calls before election day, then vote.

I understand the nuances of this. Some democrats are too shitty to support in good conscience. Plus, if said democrats end up being the tie breaker then things will get frustrating for sure. But I feel that both are side effects of US politics shifting rightward, which happened because republicans kept winning elections in the 80s. And if enough democrats are sworn into congress, those bad apples won't matter anyways.

I wish more people saw these elections as a means rather than an end. If they moved US politics leftward, then they will see less shitty democrats run for congress and more progressive bills appear on the table. But as long as people give up, this cycle of frustration will continue.

 

[Shadow of the Void]

This is a fucking nightmare, one that we knew (or should have known) was coming when Trump won in 2016 (by the skin of his teeth, thanks in part to "Never Hillary" "progressives"). The fascist takeover of America has gained yet more ground. I have real fears that the United States will still exist as an intact entity 20 years from now, and it may not be a peaceful dissolution. However bad you think things are getting, they can always get worse.

This news also means Trump's SCOTUS picks literally fucking perjured themselves during their confirmation hearings, surprising precisely no one with a working brain.



The consequences that should come with lying under oath will come sometime around never.


And George Carlin's comments on abortion are just as relevant today as they were in the 90s:

 

[Omegasquash]

Yes. I know. I ran campaigns for a living before I became a lobbyist.

I'm still asking, so what? You have to use these services to get elected. Campaigns are very difficult dances and it takes professionals to run them successfully. That takes money and services.

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Some services, sure. The money donated to politicians still often goes to corporations that lobby against our best interest at the end of the day, though. Working in campaigns, you know where the money goes, and it isn't to the campaign staff or mostly to services (not ads) or tech they license. Donate where you like, but look at the FEC and state contribution databases (where available) first, is all I'm saying. Some campaigns absolutely do NOT need your money. Save it. Donate it to a local food bank or somewhere where it'll have real impact.

Do you even understand how campaigns work? That's the point of campaigning, using money to spread your name and get votes. WTF should they be doing?

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Deeply, and I don't appreciate that opening "question". And they should be spending it differently. AKA not on terrible ads, but investing in people on their staff and educating that staff to use tools that enable the campaign to more meaningfully connect with people.

 

[Morrigan]

It's not just about congress. It's about the state senate and assemblies too. Which is where
1. State election law and who gets disenfranchised is created.
2. It's THE farm system where future congressman and senators cut their teeth.

Redistricting is so much more than how Congress is chosen. It sets the stage for the entirety of political divisions in our lives.

And we can control the narrative because there are more of us than there are of them.

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Yeah you're right, I was just oversimplifying to explaining the difference between that and the senate

 

[Naiad]

People need to start boycotting corporations who backed politicians that helped further this. Maybe some financial blowback will cause these companies to reconsider donating to Republicans.

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I'm not sure if boycotting corporations would have any effect or even help if some of those corporations have a strong lead into the market and a stranglehold on consumers. They know it too.

Companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Verizon, Toyota, AT&T, Walmart, etc all donated to Republican Congressors in the past...boycotting against them were we to find out that they backed this up would go no where.

 

[Lakeside]

The people wealthy and educated enough, sure, but go look at a map of African Americans during slavery and 100 years later. The lack of migration is eye opening.

And one of the sociological reasons this is explained is that when the boot is pushed down harder and harder on a communities neck, it simply erodes both the avenues through which you can make life changes and makes a person more dependent on their network of family for basic survival.

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Thanks for this, good perspective.

 

[Barzul]

I think women should call for a nation wide general strike. I hope they do. Let men that try to take away their autonomy understand the power that they have.

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There are women that want this ban.

 

[E_i]

"Hey, I'm from the future. Roe vs Wade will be overturned."
"By who?"
"Donald Trump."
"Hahahhahahahaha. Go fuck yourself."

 

[mbpm]

Tbqh I think the whole voting Hangup is just a case of framing.

Voting isn't enough but you should do it, and whatever shall we say, extra-electoral efforts you get up to short of a miraculous revolution is also not going to be enough, but you should also do that.

If anyone is looking for being absolved of having done enough we won't get it unfortunately. Just do what you can

 

[III-V]

This is a fucking nightmare, one that we knew (or should have known) was coming when Trump won in 2016 (by the skin of his teeth, thanks in part to "Never Hillary" "progressives"). The fascist takeover of America has gained yet more ground. I have real fears that the United States will still exist as an intact entity 20 years from now, and it may not be a peaceful dissolution. However bad you think things are getting, they can always get worse.

This news also means Trump's SCOTUS picks literally fucking perjured themselves during their confirmation hearings, surprising precisely no one with a working brain.



The consequences that should come with lying under oath will come sometime around never.


And George Carlin's comments on abortion are just as relevant today as they were in the 90s:

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They never perjured themselves. No one promised they would not revisit Roe or ever overturn it. Please don't look for 'gotcha's it is a useless endeavor. Gotcha only works when everyone plays by the same set of rules. We knew exactly who these people were, and we knew the fallout. No one who was paying any attention whatsoever is surprised.

edit: it is a funny and apt Carlin stand up

 

[pirata]

My impression is more that we need to know what we can't do to start getting to something we can. In my original post I brought this up mainly bc I really don't think it makes sense to advocate revolution like it's around the corner if we can't do that in any practical terms.

Measure before we cut basically. But if your response is something more like "don't rule it out without discussion" I suppose that's valid

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My response is never rule anything out when everything is on the line and likely no future anyway. Never take any potential source of power off the table. It's exactly what the enemy wants from us.

 

[Deleted member 70788]

So what would it take to pass a law to make abortion legal in all 50 states? Regardless or Mancin and Sinema, there are a few Republican senators, such as Murkowski, who are opposed to this decision.

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60 senate votes or 50 senate votes to kill the filibuster, then 50 votes for the law.

 

[thecouncil]

Click to shrink...

 

[JaseMath]

Fuck Republicans. This shit is a disgrace and will only further divide and already-divided country.

🗣 WHAT YEAR IS IT?

 

[Scottt]

Minimal engaging democracy should be at bottom of our list is sure a weird and tone deaf take given the recent events. But yeah sure its not like elections have consequences or anything. Better to start uprising that will lead to military junta amirighte?

And no nobody is saying just to vote. But voting is single biggest power you have. That's how you got Roe, Casy, Civil Rights, Gay marriage and various important rights as law in the first place.

And frankly even if some of you got your revoltion and new system, given your attridue towards voting you would just back here in again in couple decades. That is the fundamental problem.

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It is neither weird nor tone deaf to place the most minimal action lower than other, not-minimal actions. It is weird and tone deaf--and, again, foolish--to argue that a minimal action is the main avenue for justice.

 

[Iron_Maw]

 

[blue_whale]

The voting/not voting discussion is probably useless in this forum. I bet everyone participating in this thread is politically active. I see real no voting opinions more in my daily life where some of my friends feel it's useless. I just wish they were exposed to more opinions from the other side.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

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You know who they are. They know who they are.

 

[ChrisBliss117]

If Dems weren't going to nuke the filibuster for voting rights, they sure as hell aren't going to do it for abortion.

 

[Thordinson]

This is a fucking nightmare, one that we knew (or should have known) was coming when Trump won in 2016 (by the skin of his teeth, thanks in part to "Never Hillary" "progressives"). The fascist takeover of America has gained yet more ground. I have real fears that the United States will still exist as an intact entity 20 years from now, and it may not be a peaceful dissolution. However bad you think things are getting, they can always get worse.

This news also means Trump's SCOTUS picks literally fucking perjured themselves during their confirmation hearings, surprising precisely no one with a working brain.



The consequences that should come with lying under oath will come sometime around never.

Click to shrink...

Those comments aren't lying under oath. None of them said that precedent can't be overturned. They say that it is precedent and it is.

Precedent is precedent until it isn't.

 

[mbpm]

On an unrelated note I wonder how much things would be helped if we could somehow vote by app which was secure enough to ensure against fraud.

 

[yogurt]

If you don't think voting is good enough anymore, then help out democrats in your state by donating and making calls before election day, then vote.

I understand the nuances of this. Some democrats are too shitty to support in good conscience. Plus, if said democrats end up being the tie breaker then things will get frustrating for sure. But I feel that both are side effects of US politics shifting rightward, which happened because republicans kept winning elections in the 80s. And if enough democrats are sworn into congress, those bad apples won't matter anyways.

I wish more people saw these elections as a means rather than an end. If they moved US politics leftward, then they will see less shitty democrats run for congress and more progressive bills appear on the table. But as long as people give up, this cycle of frustration will continue.

Click to shrink...

Sadly we're too busy fighting among ourselves to do that.

Deeply, and I don't appreciate that opening "question". And they should be spending it differently. AKA not on terrible ads, but investing in people on their staff and educating that staff to use tools that enable the campaign to more meaningfully connect with people.

Click to shrink...

Isn't that what they're trying to do with social media outreach, though? As much as I hate social media it's the most common town square these days. It usually co-exists with traditional avenues like going door to door. A campaign that doesn't use social media will lose.

 

[III-V]

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sounds like we can put that Woman's Health Protection Act hope to rest

Fuck Manchin and Sinema with all the dicks

 

[Gpsych]

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Fuck them. That's all I have to say really.

 

[yogurt]

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What gets me about this is that people in the fall will refuse to vote for, like, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania because they don't like Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona. You know, "THOSE USELESS DEMOCRATS."

Meanwhile the other side will enthusiastically show up to vote for the boot.

 

[Metroidvania]

So what would it take to pass a law to make abortion legal in all 50 states? Regardless or Mancin and Sinema, there are a few Republican senators, such as Murkowski, who are opposed to this decision.

Click to shrink...

Even if Murkowski AND Collins (lol) vote for codifying, they won't vote to gut the filibuster, and that's that.

This news also means Trump's SCOTUS picks literally fucking perjured themselves during their confirmation hearings, surprising precisely no one with a working brain.

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From what I've read elsewhere, they weasel-worded their way out of it by merely acknowledging that it's the law of the land/is a precedent, and said 'they couldn't make decisions about a potential court case ahead of time', or something to that nature.

They acknowledge the 'precedent', but don't in any way say they'd never get rid of said precedent - Even Gorsuch (who IMO would be the most against the 'spirit' of Alito's ruling) says 'I accept (that it's) law of the land', not that he accepts/agrees with the ruling.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

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No shit.

But, wait until Republicans regain the house, senate, and presidency. The filibuster will be gone the moment Dems use it to stop something. And then voting rights will be so fucked that Dems can never gain control again.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The voting/not voting discussion is probably useless in this forum. I bet everyone participating in this thread is politically active. I see real no voting opinions more in my daily life where some of my friends feel it's useless. I just wish they were exposed to more opinions from the other side.

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Agreed, I just re-registered to vote in my new district and I haven't missed a vote since my very first one in 2004. I just no longer believe it is possible to vote our way out of this mess, not when the opposition does not believe in democracy and is openly conspiring to institute authoritarian rule.

 

[III-V]

Reposting for good measure



Pretty massive L for the Biden admin, for no other reason than it happening on his 'watch'

 

[KtotheRoc]

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These fucking dipshits have helped the rightwing so much.

 

[Bengraven]

There are women that want this ban.

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Exactly.

Every time there's a woman's march my feeds are full of conservative women telling liberal women to go home and take care of your family. Someone who was okay with the Jan 6 riot was complaining about the trash left next to a garbage can by protestors in 2017 women's march because "liberal women are disgusting pigs". Never mind that they were out protesting for HER rights.

An exboss of mine, southern baptist once said "women's rights are for the birds - it's unethical and destroys the American family". She also said that if her husband divorced her she would seriously considering killing herself because she didn't want to face her parents for the shame of failing in her duties.

And then you have the mass women voting for trump.

 

[Dinjoralo]

Voting is slacktivism. Expecting the government to fix itself because a few people in it were switched out is foolish. Nothing will be fixed until politicians are forced to bear the burden of accountability, and that will never come from law.

 

[RisingStar]

It's kinda both. Basically, Roe made abortion a right, in the context of being a medical procedure between a doctor and patient and that right to privacy cannot be denied, and Casey said that abortion must remain legal and that any restrictions could not be considered an excessive burden. As these were decided via Supreme Court decisions, they applied across all fifty states.

What this opinion does is, effectively, strikes both down as bad decisions because they are allowing a right that is not explicitly in the constitution, ignoring the rights of the State to make the decisions on if abortion is allowed within their territory. So, while abortion isn't banned in the entirety of the USA, there is now no federal protection of the procedure. So, for example, there are (I believe) 22 states that have laws ready to trigger and make abortion illegal in those areas once Roe is gone. More are sure to follow.

While I don't want to downplay the concern about abortion, because ya know, what the fuck is going on, that exact same "it's not in the constitution" logic can be applied to sodomy laws, same sex marriage laws, gender affirming care, contraceptive access, et cetera. It's a fucking disaster of an opinion.

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This is straight-up awful. I'm not American, so I legitimately didn't know abortion laws were in such a fragile state at a federal level. I always just assumed that certain states were problematic themselves.

 

[Mass Effect]

The rich have happily used abortion as a tool to advance their no-tax, dismantle the Federal Government agenda. Meanwhile they hop on a flight to get an abortion where it's legal.

Joke's on them because red states will 100% criminalize their residents going to another state to get an abortion. Make no mistake – they're gonna ram personhood through and red states will say that 1-day old fetuses are residents of their states

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Rich people getting abortions will face no such consequences.

The people wealthy and educated enough, sure, but go look at a map of African Americans during slavery and 100 years later. The lack of migration is eye opening.

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What? Have you not heard of the Great Migration? Something like 50% of the black population left the South last century. That's literally why a large portion of my family are in the midwest.

Either way, I think there will be an uptick in migration for political reasons across the spectrum. I also expect charity programs focused on taking "refugees" from oppressive red states and moving them to moderate/blue states to start popping up as well over the coming years.

 

[III-V]

Liz is pissed

 

[Omegasquash]

Sadly we're too busy fighting among ourselves to do that.

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Hah, that's a fair point.

Isn't that what they're trying to do with social media outreach, though? As much as I hate social media it's the most common town square these days. It usually co-exists with traditional avenues like going door to door. A campaign that doesn't use social media will lose.

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It's the way the outreach takes place. "Final Notice" email headlines or "Youngkin endorsed by Trump (ad paid for by the Democratic Party of VA)" kind of thing.

I kind of feel like social media hasn't helped us much. Like...maybe it's not the best method of outreach (accepting that it was pretty much all we had during the pandemic).

 

[JohnsonUT]

No shit.

But, wait until Republicans regain the house, senate, and presidency. The filibuster will be gone the moment Dems use it to stop something. And then voting rights will be so fucked that Dems can never gain control again.

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I don't think Republicans will get rid of the filibuster. Their strategy is clearly pass as little legislation as possible federally and let the court tear everything down. The court has shown itself perfectly capable of destroying voting rights and is more than capable of looking the other way on election fraud. Removing the filibuster would theoretically allow Dems to actually pass legislation in the future if they were somehow allowed to take back congress.

It is mind blowing that the supreme court of the US was less conservative during the time period where segregation was the norm in much of the US than it is today.

 

[Earthstrike]

A recap of how much of an idiot Jimmy Dore is:

FULL DEBATE: Jimmy Dore & Sam Seder on 2016 Presidential Election

In this Majority Report clip, comedian Jimmy Dore of the Jimmy Dore Show and The Young Turks Network calls in to debate Sam Seder on the presidential electio...

youtu.be

 

[JaseMath]

Liz is pissed

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Shoulda been president.

 

[captive]

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this is for all the "dems should do something they have the majority"
they literally can't when they're held hostage by two assholes.

 

[XMonkey]

I generally agree with you but I empathize with people who feel like voting is useless when voting has seemingly done nothing in the case of Biden. He ran on fairly reasonable promises and hasn't really accomplished anything of note. I think it is reasonable to be discouraged from voting and I think that is a goal of the GOP (if they can't take the right away, they need to at least tear down the institution).

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"Done nothing"? If anyone thinks voting has done nothing of note for Biden's presidency they're straight up not paying attention.

One of the biggest economic relief and stimulus packages in our history was passed because enough people voted for Biden and Georgian voters got us 2 Senate seats. This bill was huge and full of helpful things that will be paying off for years to come.

The first black woman Justice will be on the Supreme Court because enough people voted for Biden and denied Trump a second term and voters in Georgia did what was thought impossible and won 2 runoff Senate races in the same election.

Biden has been able to appoint the most lifetime Federal judges in the first two years of a Presidency since 1980 because enough people voted him in and Democratic voters in Georgia did what so many of the cynics said couldn't happen.

We had easy and free access nationwide to vaccines for covid because Biden was elected and not Trump.

Russia is getting their shit kicked in by Ukraine with tons of help from the US because Biden got elected and Putin's little stooge didn't. If Trump was re-elected because people sat it out then we're likely discussing how Russia is orchestrating their shadow government in Ukraine right now instead while Trump tries to tear down NATO.

I could go on.

Now imagine none of this happens if just a small amount of voters in the country and in Georgia thought their vote couldn't make a difference and sat it out.

And the reason why more isn't getting done in Congress? It wasn't because voting didn't make a difference. It's because not enough Democrats were elected. Someone can't expect to get an entire agenda passed when they only have the absolute bare minimum of margin of power with a 50/50 Senate. If you want a chance at it all you need to increase those margins, and I know of one reliable way to do that.