Police shoot and kill unarmed, naked man. Police response: ‘Being naked doesn’t remove threat’
- Thread starter Enzom21
- Start date
Its not logic. Their second post was abundantly clear on how they felt about the guy being put down. They attempted to justify it with the knife argument.. but that is nonsense. Some people enjoy this sort of shit. Its not really going to be an honest discussion when the point of view is already set in stone. Every discussion point just evolves into another goal post move. Its a shame, but its expected. This shit is A-Ok in this country. Unarmed/Armed/Naked. You'll likely be shot by police if you're a person of color, and rome will support it.
All of this is just depressing, truth be told.
Its just astonishing that we have video of cops wrestling people to the ground, because thats part of their training/job. Now all of a sudden, they MUST shoot a naked man because he might take their gun from them? Its like cops are so Brave and trained in one hand, then in the other? Its my grandmother with a gun and grease on her hands.
considering most places should have taught them how to do a takedown yes?
User banned (1 week): advocating for police brutality and disingenuous arguments
I wonder if people would want him to be shot if he got out of the car and charged towards a cop.
I know I would.
I wanted him shot period. But they're not gonna kill one of their own if they can help it.
Why is it that the naked Waffle House shooter, who happens to be white, can be apprehended alive but a black guy that killed no one has to be 'put down'?
Are black men consider human Pit Bulls or something? Do we need commercials explaining to people that we are not more dangerous than the average human being?
Are black men consider human Pit Bulls or something? Do we need commercials explaining to people that we are not more dangerous than the average human being?
That's too easy of an escape for him.... I'd rather him held accountable at the hands of the courts (death penalty) or held accountable in jail by other inmates.
But until then... I'd want authorities to get as much info out of him. About his links to other potential sick fucks. To get something beneficial out of his future death.
I think your injecting way too much emotion into this and looking for race angles that may or may not be there. Just a few pages back was a similar situation with a white male who was shot in the back and killed by police. He was naked and unarmed when he was shot as well. Also, maybe you need to step away and cool off if your not willing to discuss the topic in a civil manner because I don't think it's as "clear-cut" as you think it was.
If clearly unarmed person running towards an officer, them or their partner, made them shoot then they shouldn't be a police officer. If the police panics in such situations so easily, they aren't fit to serve as a police. I think firing him is least that should happen.
Cops aren't Judge Dredds. And I also already told you about a case where person was taken alive for stabbing multiple people (10, 2 of them died) while still threatening people with the knife. And his intent was to die, not get arrested.
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In at least some departments, being too smart has disqualified applicants before.
If you saw a man punching another man on the street, do you think that man would deserve to be shot dead?
Again, the Waffle House shooter, who was consider armed and dangerous when he was on-the-run, was apprehended alive. He was nude as well. That is a near like for like situation, except that man actually shot and/or killed people. And he was white.
I've already said that the race angle is impossible to ignore because it is an omnipresent feature of how American police were formed, how they continue to operate, and how black victims and perpetrators are characterized. If you think it's completely irrelevant because a naked white guy was killed, and that my anger is unnecessary, you're free to do so, but your belief nor individual case studies do not deny long, storied, and studied patterns of behavior, and I'm not gonna let people handwave away that continuing history.
I'd rather they get him alive, question him on what his deal is, and who put him up to it, then let him rot in jail. That's a harsher punishment than death (quick way out).
Police officers would rather kill someone than maybe having to subdue someone physically.
Disgusting.
Disgusting.
Pretty much. There are a lot of people who automatically assume black men are more dangerous.
ITT we have people that enjoy seeing/hearing about others being shot and killed.
This Is America. I understand now.
This Is America. I understand now.
Possibly, but I'm not the guy to decide that. From my perspective, it was a regrettable and preventable situation if we had a better-trained police force. I don't think the officer panicked but instead was forced to make a call with very little time and defaulted to what he was trained to do. It's why I'm reluctant to go at the officers in this particular situation. They did the job they were trained for, it's the system that's fucked.
The guy from the link a couple of pages back I was talking about?
Well sure, it's a wider problem than just this particular case. I absolutely agree with that. It's a problem with what cops are allowed to do, so they also do it if that's also what training focuses on. Unless of course this would lead to some consequences as I think it should, but that's yet to see. I found Vox article earlier that stated "Police academies psend 110 hours on firearms and self-defense. They spend 8 hours on conflict management" Now that 8 hours if ridiculous, but that 110 hours is too. Especially in a country where even civilians can be carrying firearms. In Finland people do own guns too, one of the highest per capita after the US. But people aren't allowed to carry guns wherever they might go, gun licenses aren't given for "self-defense". So there's a lot less people armed with weapons around, that shit stays locked up unless you are at the shooting range or hunting. So why do American police train for firearms and self-defense for half of the time that Finnish police does. And why the hell is conflict management 8 hours, it's basically one day at the academy given for that.
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Yep. Some people can pretend that they aren't doing it, but its really disappointing to see people say that they would like to see someone shot.
Charging an officer when naked seems a pretty clear situation to me, yes. The person clearly needs to be stopped and is a threat but at the same time it's also true that there's no reason lethal force should magically become the only possible option in such a scenario. I refuse to accept that, particularly when such scenarios are handled non-lethally by other professions in the United States all the time and by cops in other countries all the time as well. There's no reason it should be any different for cops in the United States.
And also saying "shrugged off a taser hit" is adding information into the scenario we don't know. All we know is that the taser was ineffective. We don't know why. It could have simply missed. Or it could have simply had bad contacts/the contacts hit too far apart from each other to make a complete circuit. Or it could have just had a weak/bad charge. Or, y'know, any of the other billion other reasons why tasers are very often said to be an unreliable choice in general and why people often defend cops when they opt to go directly for a firearm and don't bother using a taser whatsoever. Very interesting how all those reasons vanish though as soon as the taser is used, and that magically means it did in fact work 100% perfectly and that the contacts were in fact perfect, it was a direct hit, it was fully charged and just "shrugged off" as if we could possibly know that...
And then something else that occurs to me reading this. Since we're clearly holding officers to the standards of average individuals here and not the higher standards officers of the law should be being held to (and thus, y'know, being trained to handle stuff like naked individuals of all possible things without needing to use lethal force, but apparently that's too much to ask for someone who receives special training for situations MUCH, MUCH more dangerous than that), but since we're at it, a question occurs to me...
Since officers are so perfectly normal and average and nothing more, I'm sure they have memory lapses and forget stuff all the time, just like the rest of us, right? Y'know, like forgetting our car keys or phones or TV remote controls and can't for the love of us, remember where we placed them, right? Happens to the best of us, all the time, as much as we wish it wouldn't happen, it does, and we're all only human and all that, right? And if anything, because cops have incredibly stressful jobs and are at times doing all kinds of shit for hours at end, if anything, that must happen at least slightly more often to them on average, because of all that stress, and lack of sleep, and stuff, right? If it happens to us, it must happen to them, but no big deal, right? Who cares about if they forget a phone or whatever? Happens to everyone.
Well, what I'm getting at here is, if they truly are just like the rest of us, and we're concocting scenarios like "what if he went for the officer's gun!" well, what if, because of all the stress of the job and stuff, and being human like the rest of us, the officer forgot his service weapon back at the station? Surely, because they're human like the rest of us, that type of thing must happen all the time. A gun being so important doesn't stop stuff like that from happening, as shit like car keys and the like are also very important (can't go anywhere without them), but it doesn't stop us from losing track of the things all the time. Our brains give no fucks about what's important and what isn't. Doesn't stop us from losing track of them, at all, unfortunately.
So what would happen in this situation if the cop, being a normal person just like the rest of us and not being held to a higher standard in any way, whatsoever, forgot his weapon at the station (or forget to bring ammo/make sure it was loaded, or any number of situations like that)? How would the cop handle the situation then? Would he be able to or not? That's what I'm curious about. If he's able to, as someone of his position should be able to (especially given that they're expected to face situations much more dangerous than this all the time), then what was the need for the firearm in the first place? And if he can't, if the cop literally is completely incapable of fending off a naked assailant in any way without a firearm, then... well, is that someone who you can really expect to keep you safe? To protect you and keep you from harm? If they're that dependent on a firearm, for everything and are literally nothing without it? Because that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence and sound like the person I want protecting me from bad guys, if they literally turn into nothing without their gun and that's literally all they have and that's all there is to them.
Or is it the case that this is a situation where cops do in fact turn into super-humans? That they're terrified of their guns being stolen and the like, like it's a Hollywood movie, but that they never, ever, in the history of ever would ever forget to bring their weapon with them or make sure it's loaded or any of that and have absolutely perfect, flawless memories no matter how stressed they get or how rough a day they have?
Either way, just find it interesting... That people bring up all these crazy scenarios that rely on cops being flawed or average or imperfect in some way or another and hold them to no higher standards than anyone else, but despite that, the possibility of a cop just forgetting their weapon or something is never mentioned and never brought up at all and that's one thing they seem perfect at. Very interesting, that.
No, I don't think the race angle is impossible to ignore, I think that the details of the story are slim and that you were painting a disingenuous picture of a man who was peacefully surrendering when that's literally the only thing we know he wasn't doing. Again, have an opinion but don't get mad because the details are not as clear-cut as you think or want them to be. alls I'm saying
The police should have to follow the same fitness requirements as the military and should go through the same training.
I never said nor implied he was peacefully surrendering. That's you putting words in my mouth.
Afaik, that's the norm in any deadly inter-person shooting, police involvement or otherwise.
it's not the same I looked up the incident you're talking about. The link a few pages back is also a similar situation as this but with a naked unarmed white male who gets shot in the back. Either way, I don't wanna be that guy that's bringing up other incidents and saying it happens to everybody because if I'm being honest a part of me feels the same as you do. I'm just saying I think that the problem lies with our culture and that I don't think this situation is one that can be easily put up as an example of police being shit. They did the job and made a call that was regrettable but also justifiable in my opinion. Police are killed every year by criminals who manage to successfully obtain an officers firearm, so I don't think they were wrong. I think that there was more than they could have done before it came to the conclusion that it did come to.
I just want to say that this is my old stomping ground.
I used stay right outside the city. Rode down Chamberlayne Ave so many times.
I just wanna mention that Richmond PD is extremely chill and predominantly black I believe. I never had ANY issues with RPD for the 3 years I was there.
I think its one of the few Departments doing it right, as alot of the officers are from the community they police. People know them. They keep it moving for the most part, really only looking for violence and making sure people safe on party nights (college town)
The actual dickheads are Chesterfield PD also known as Arrestifield.
I don't condone this killing. But with my experience with RPD, I can't help but trust their word that they tried to avoid escalation. They are one of the few departments whose word has any sort of credibility.
Terrible incident
I used stay right outside the city. Rode down Chamberlayne Ave so many times.
I just wanna mention that Richmond PD is extremely chill and predominantly black I believe. I never had ANY issues with RPD for the 3 years I was there.
I think its one of the few Departments doing it right, as alot of the officers are from the community they police. People know them. They keep it moving for the most part, really only looking for violence and making sure people safe on party nights (college town)
The actual dickheads are Chesterfield PD also known as Arrestifield.
I don't condone this killing. But with my experience with RPD, I can't help but trust their word that they tried to avoid escalation. They are one of the few departments whose word has any sort of credibility.
Terrible incident
I said your post made it sound like that and then you dismissed my opinion totally without even considering that as a possibility.
It probably sounded like that to you because I'm defending a dead black guy.
I take these two anecdotes/opinions to heart and I'll wait for bodycam footage.
As it stands, though, I am not ok with the idea of nude men being shot. There are other ways to handle situations like this. If all else fails, the testicles are every man's weak spot, under every circumstance.
So because I took a stance other than what you think I am suddenly racist or prejudice? Get your head out of your ass dude, people don't always agree and it's not always about race. You can't even have a regular convo so instead, you get mad and go straight to insults. You are definitely too emotional about this whole thing.
I never said anything about you either. I called Redhill racist. For someone accusing others of being too emotional, you sure are content to straw man me a lot.
Did you even see what I quoted lol? Calm down man, I can literally picture you rage typing at me. I made one observation and you went postal, good luck with your interactions in the real world when someone doesn't agree with you. Damn lol
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not angry at you. I'm confused at this point, because you're deliberately misconstruing every correction and clarification as "rage," probably because you're already feeling like the real victim in this scenario somehow.
Even over the anonymous internet, a black woman speaking passionately is angry.
Yeah... I really don't like to defend the police, but on this one, I kind of understand... If they shot before using the taser, maybe not, but cops aren't going to kung-fu battle people and the taser failed, so...
OP
OP
But I'm very short, cute, and unassuming- 4'11"- so do I get a slight buff?
Look, 30 is too old to be arguing on forums man, but let me break it down for you before I go.
You were dismissive of my opinion right off the bat rather than actually having a convo about my thoughts and why I think the way I do.
You most definitely tried to make me out to have a motive with your "because I'm defending a dead black guy" post but I didn't. Everyone isn't a racist in disguise online dude, I'm just giving an honest opinion on how I interpreted the story and the post you made but you had to try to "win" an argument rather than discuss anything I said. You also keep trying to steer the convo in directions that I wasn't even going in which is how I know you are mad.
And I have a tendency to get mad myself so I'm going to leave this discussion because nothing I say further will be about the topic at hand, I will just get to the point your at and start arguing with you over nothing. To everyone in here, I genuinely feel bad that a life was taken, I'm not a monster and I don't have a motive other than trying to understand why a life was taken in this situation. Goodbye
"Aren't going to kung-fu battle"? What kind of shit is this? Physically subduing a suspect is like the most basic of basicest police work. Except in America, where the concept apparently isn't understood enough to even have a actual term for it.
Sure, but the buff raises your chance of random sexism encounters
It's the callous disregard for the lives of their fellow Americans that has us where we are today. McLovin is a very disappointing human based on these posts.