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Police can force you to disclose your passwords, Oregon judge rules

Deleted member 8860

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Welp. There go those 5th Amendment rights.

The status quo was that police could force you to unlock your phone via fingerprint or other biometrics, but not based on knowledge stored only in your memory. Now the Oregon court of appeals has upheld a lower court judge's ruling that the plantiff was required to unlock her phone via password in order to allow police to search it for evidence of her crime(s).
 
Stinkles

Stinkles

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Oct 25, 2017
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Um this isn't going to stand.

at all.

edit

wow at the lady though. DUI meth head. Injuring children. Phew
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

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This is after they've gotten a warrant, not when it's a random cop walking up to you.
 
PennyStonks

PennyStonks

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Most of my passwords are the muscle memory of WoW moves. Pretty sure I can legally tell them my password without any relevant information being passed on
 
BDS

BDS

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Eat My Jorts said:
"I don't recall my password, officer."
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thekonamicode said:
"I do not recall"
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Courts have actually ruled that this defense is invalid because of the impossibility that you would forget a password you enter several times a day.

EDIT: This comment blew up and everybody has a different snarky gotcha response so a few reminders:

1. I didn't write the law. Arguing with me over whether or not it makes sense won't solve anything. I don't even agree with it

2. The ruling, like most similar rulings, is specifically in regards to your phone PIN code, which a court once ruled is something you enter so frequently that you couldn't possibly forget it. Courts have generally ruled that passwords cannot be turned over to law enforcement if you don't want to give them, although obviously as we've just seen this is a rapidly-evolving area of case law. There is no settled precedent on this

3. Again, as stated above, if you use a password manager or some other form of encryption for your passwords, they will demand that you hand over the master password, encryption key, or whatever you use to access the password(s). And again, whether or not this is a lawful request is obviously up for debate

4. If you are actually in such deep legal shit that you need to desperately prevent the police from accessing your phone or hard drive, stop taking legal advice from people on ResetERA and contact a lawyer, the ACLU, and/or the EFF immediately. None of this is settled case law and you are going to need to fight for it in court
 
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Ferrio

Ferrio

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Oct 25, 2017
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jman2050 said:
I mean, they can try
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security.png
 
Officer Big Mac

Officer Big Mac

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Oct 28, 2017
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I'll refuse to comply, declare I'm the subject of a witchhunt and accuse the police of refusing to give me their password.
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

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Plead the 5th, that'll never hold up in court

Say no

You dont have to participate in something that will incriminate you. Make em work
 
Deltadan

Deltadan

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BDS said:
Courts have actually ruled that this defense is invalid because of the impossibility that you would forget a password you enter several times a day.
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Hopefully google records how many times I've had to use the "forgot my password" feature so i can use it as a defense.
 
BDS

BDS

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The Albatross said:
Y'all ever heard of password managers?
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You have a password manager for your phone PIN? Because unless it randomizes every single time you unlock the device it's still the same argument. You can't "forget" a password you use ten times a day and a judge won't buy it.

Deltadan said:
Hopefully google records how many times I've had to use the "forget my password" feature so i can use it as a defense.
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The ruling is solely for unlocking a phone, not for other passwords, although they'll obviously try to force that precedent and hopefully get shut down by these valid counterarguments when it happens.
 

Deleted member 12790

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BDS said:
Courts have actually ruled that this defense is invalid because of the impossibility that you would forget a password you enter several times a day.
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real talk, I actually, literally did this once. It was honestly disturbing. One day, like 7 or so years ago, I forgot my debit card pin after having the same card for a couple of years. Seriously, went to the bank and dozens upon dozens of attempts. Had to bring my Social security card and tax forms to prove my identity to order a new card and change the password.

It can happen, and has literally happened to me without any sort of ulterior motivation.
 
Surakian

Surakian

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Oct 27, 2017
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I don't actually know my passwords. I just type them by muscle memory.

I also haven't typed a password in ages...

I guess I better not commit a crime in Oregon.
 
Dest

Dest

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Jun 4, 2018
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Encryption is great, passwords are great, but always be ready to physically destroy your device.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Sean C. said:
That's a logical ruling. If the police have a warrant, there's nothing unusual about a person being required to comply with it and facilitate access.
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The very first thing the cop told me when they (incorrectly) served a warrant to raid my place in college was "you have the right to remain silent"
 
Kirblar

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Krejlooc said:
The very first thing the cop told me when they (incorrectly) served a warrant to raid my place in college was "you have the right to remain silent"
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You don't have the right to deny access to a search of physical stuff though. You can't put stuff in a safe and refuse to open the safe.

Well, you can, but they're gonna be within their rights to bust the safe.
 
Polaroid_64

Polaroid_64

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BDS said:
What's the master password to your password manager?

At some point, there's a password you know, in your head, that's connected to everything else, and that's what the cops want.
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Don't use one. And I haven't used my yahoo mail in years to reset any.

I am not saying that the judge or jury could not hold that against me according to law, they just wouldn't get the password from me at least.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Kirblar said:
You don't have the right to deny access to a search of physical stuff though. You can't put stuff in a safe and refuse to open the safe.
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I can refuse to speak the code to enter the safe. The police are free to access the inside of the safe all they want... if they can do it. You literally don't have to say a single word to the police.

Well, you can, but they're gonna be within their rights to bust the safe.
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So let them try to bust into the phone.
 
BDS

BDS

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Kirblar said:
You don't have the right to deny access to a search of physical stuff though. You can't put stuff in a safe and refuse to open the safe.

Well, you can, but they're gonna be within their rights to bust the safe.
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The previous rulings on this were that the key to a safe is a physical object, so the police are entitled to demand it. However, if you had, for example, a combination lock, it's possible (never fully resolved) that they cannot force you to tell them the combination. That was the basis for previous rulings that police could not force you to turn over a password, because it's something only you know, and you are entitled to not self-incriminate.

In any case, this appeals ruling is directly contradictory to other appeals court findings so I guess this is going to the Supreme Court at some point.
 
jediyoshi

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I don't remember a ton of my passwords. If I scrapped them from my password manager, I'd be as lost as anyone.
 
The Real Abed

The Real Abed

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This gives me an idea. Apple (And Android makers) should implement a "self destruct passcode" that you can set yourself (So it doesn't end up being some well known code) that when entered will erase the phone completely and set it up as new.

Does anyone do this? Seems like a brilliant security option.
 
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