Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,571
Never really got into gen 6 games (played them, just couldnt like them like the others), but from the objective POV Z-moves are 100% a game changer, one move in the right timing can change the tide of the battle.
btw side note, serbeii is an amazing site and I love it.
Yep, Z-Moves are ridiculously powerful but take an item slot for balance. They can 100% change the tide of battle.

Then the Z-Status Moves. Take Z-Splash. Boosts Attack 3 stages
Z-Transform - Completely heals you before transforming
Z-Hone Claws - Boosts your attack by 1 before boosting your attack and accuracy by 1

And my favourite

Z-Trick-or-Treat - Boosts each of your stats by 1 before turning your target into a part Ghost-type
 

PrimeOtime

Member
May 28, 2020
44
Yep, Z-Moves are ridiculously powerful but take an item slot for balance. They can 100% change the tide of battle.

Then the Z-Status Moves. Take Z-Splash. Boosts Attack 3 stages
Z-Transform - Completely heals you before transforming
Z-Hone Claws - Boosts your attack by 1 before boosting your attack and accuracy by 1

And my favourite

Z-Trick-or-Treat - Boosts each of your stats by 1 before turning your target into a part Ghost-type
Absolutely agreed, and since Dmaxing/Gmaxing is basically Mega+Z-moves, It applies too.
Gimmicks or not, they're still hugh changes to the battle system and to pokemon as a whole.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,571
Absolutely agreed, and since Dmaxing/Gmaxing is basically Mega+Z-moves, It applies too.
Gimmicks or not, they're still hugh changes to the battle system and to pokemon as a whole.
I've been using Barraskewda as a support Pokémon lately through Dynamax as it has a wide boosting movepool, can outspeed a lot, and can do decent damage.
 

PrimeOtime

Member
May 28, 2020
44
I've been using Barraskewda as a support Pokémon lately through Dynamax as it has a wide boosting movepool, can outspeed a lot, and can do decent damage.
That's also a hugh reason why I love those mechanics, pokemon like Barraskewda would've never get that sort of attention without stuff like that.
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Nov 7, 2019
11,879
Germany
I disagree and agree. It is still the same system (thankfully) but it always adds new things, wether people like em or not is a different matter. I think barren some broken exceptions Dmax/Gmax for example is really cool and allows for "lesser" Pokemon to be viable in a way they never were before.
 

Nihilego_Khu

Member
Mar 12, 2018
131
Well, OP confused several concepts.
I admit that gimmicks are different from basic system design. But this is a process which is still developing constantly. Early gens(from 1 to 4) mainly designed the whole battle system and made it complete, which was more like giving a skeleton. The latter gens added muscle and blood(the so-called gimmick) to generate a lively character(the balanced and stable battle systems now). And GF knew that the system cannot just accomplish the addition calculations, and they needed time to also solve the subtraction problems, or the complex and redundant system would explode in the end.
Gimmicks make a lot of sense. In Gen6, you need to consider every mega when you form your team, and the battle is mega-focused. In Gen7, Z-moves bring more balance to the mega environment. While now, pokemon are more inclined to learn steel or ground type moves due to the Dynamax gimmick. All of the above are battle influences derived from the new gimmicks. I'm looking forward to other new gimmicks in the future gens.

They've basically been evolving and iterating rather than revolutionising each generation. And that's fine. It has progressed, it just hasn't massively shaken up

I will argue that Megas, Z-Moves and Dynamax HAVE progressed battles. It's a shame Megas & Z-Moves aren't presently in Gen 8. However, Megas were in SMUSUM and were heavily used in battles. They didn't just drop it then, despite many seemingly asking them to. I do hope Z-Move and Megas do return in the main games. We know they're going nowhere: Mega Evolution is to be shown again in the anime 2 weeks after it comes back and both exist in one form or another in Masters (Z Moves are essentially Sync Moves in Masters).

Megas and Z -Moves changed things up, you had to think about it in multiplayer. Who should I have as a Mega? When should I drop the Z-Move? Dynamax opens this up even further by having any Pokémon capable of doing it without the need for a held item. It makes more Pokémon usable. Hell, I'd even argue the best Z-Moves aren't the ones that do damage, but ones that boost up your Pokémon.

Hell, look at Durant. Who'd use Durant really? However, it is seeing increased use because of Dynamax.
Adding more and more systems will end up with coupling problems, and debugging will become more difficult. Also, focusing on one new gimmick should not be influenced by older sub-systems, because this will limit the design process for the new features.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
I've said it before, but I think battles could really take advantage of positioning in some way, like using a small grid (ala Radiant Historia). They could use it to better differentiate terrain, which is currently just weather with different effects (and maybe naturally have it, in the same way overworld weather can manifest in battles). Plus it would add slightly more strategy. I'm not entirely sure how they'd use it, or if it would do much 1v1, but it'd be cool if that was in conjuction to moving more to 2v2 as the default
IIRC Fossil Fighters had this, with its 3v3 format having different attacks hit different positions and some passive skills only triggering on some positions/affecting different places. It's something I wish more non tactics turn based RPGs try their hands at.

Game Freak has created the strongest PvP turn-based RPG battle system that exists today.
To be fair, there's not many PvP turn based RPGs at all.
 

Mzril

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
435
I'd be willing to accept the removal of Hidden Power if it meant that IVs were gone too.

It just keeps like Pokemon continues to tack on its subsystem management BS (Hunting for specific Gmax pokes, Max Candies for instance)when it's the worst part of the competitive scene.

You just waste so much time breeding over experimenting with setups and having fun. There's a place for mechanics like EVs at the least, but nature and IVs I would say are more detrimental to the game if anything else.