Which will you throw in the PC Storage first?

  • Pikachu

    Votes: 590 16.2%
  • Eevee

    Votes: 571 15.7%
  • Your hopes and dreams

    Votes: 2,083 57.4%
  • Jmon

    Votes: 387 10.7%

  • Total voters
    3,631

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,722
So all the play with none of the work? Do you really understand what IV's are? You want shit to be easy because you don't want to do it? That's what Hyper Training is for. Let me guess it bothers you to raise a Pokémon to level 100. I seriously thought you had some intriguing idea.

Do you understand that a Pokémon that has a 31 IV in defense can take a hit better than a Pokémon with 0 IV? Same goes with Attack IV's with hitting harder. So we going to ignore that for convenience and I don't just like it so scrap it?

You're idea of improving the Meta game is by taking out a function of the Meta game and replacing it with nothing like gen 1. Speaking of gen 1 I'll take it to the Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee games where Masuda has said a lot of the features are not coming for this game because he wants to unite the casual audience and the core audience and hopes they can enjoy this game together. What I'm getting from you is that you want a gen 1 Meta game. Well I have great news for you because the Let's Go games will be casual as fuck for people who don't want or care about the breeding and IV system. Hell, in one of those interviews for this game will have leveling feature for this game. You get exp for just catching Pokémon and without Pokémon even being in a battle. Should we just scrap battles? I don't give a shit about Showdown or whatever the hell its called. I play the Pokémon games that are publish by Nintendo. If you want easy go type in 31s across the board and have at it.

I'm not going to debate with someone who's only argument is "I don't like it so scrap it."

Thanks for the replies and I hope you have a good day.

I have a pretty simple question for you. What do EV's and IV's add to the games except for busy work?

You can have a great team of pokemon with excellent type coverage and synergy and an understanding of the metagame but if you are not willing to spend hundereds of hours breading perfect pokemon then you are unable to compete because your going to get trounced by perfect IV teams. Thats a big problem with a game thats meant for kids. Yes, I know you can play theough the single player and have fun battles with your friends without worrying about any of that, but thats besides the point imo.

You act like breeding for IVs is some super engaging process. Its clearly just a time sink.

Until the timesink is removed ill just enjoy the stories and then mess around on showdown since its actually accessable for people who just want to enjoy battles without all the baggage.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,156
Limburg
I have a pretty simple question for you. What do EV's and IV's add to the games except for busy work?

You can have a great team of pokemon with excellent type coverage and synergy and an understanding of the metagame but if you are not willing to spend hundereds of hours breading perfect pokemon then you are unable to compete because your going to get trounced by perfect IV teams. Thats a big problem with a game thats meant for kids. Yes, I know you can play theough the single player and have fun battles with your friends without worrying about any of that, but thats besides the point imo.

You act like breeding for IVs is some super engaging process. Its clearly just a time sink.

Until the timesink is removed ill just enjoy the stories and then mess around on showdown since its actually accessable for people who just want to enjoy battles without all the baggage.

Apparently it needs to be said again:

Breeding for IVs is not optimal in S/M & USUM. You can use bottle caps at lvl 100 to achieve the same effect.
 

Deleted member 2340

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,661
I have a pretty simple question for you. What do EV's and IV's add to the games except for busy work?

You can have a great team of pokemon with excellent type coverage and synergy and an understanding of the metagame but if you are not willing to spend hundereds of hours breading perfect pokemon then you are unable to compete because your going to get trounced by perfect IV teams. Thats a big problem with a game thats meant for kids. Yes, I know you can play theough the single player and have fun battles with your friends without worrying about any of that, but thats besides the point imo.

You act like breeding for IVs is some super engaging process. Its clearly just a time sink.

Until the timesink is removed ill just enjoy the stories and then mess around on showdown since its actually accessable for people who just want to enjoy battles without all the baggage.


When I first wrote that post I didn't understand the person I quoted. If you scroll down alittle you'll see me and that person finally got on the same page.

AND!!!!

I have this feature that's just for you. It is called Hyper Training that will raise your Pokémon battle stats as if they were 31 IVs.

I've said this before when I came back in Gen 6 the best Pokémon I had was a 3IV one and I was able to win more than I lost battling randoms online. I only ever started breading for better stat Pokémon when I grew a desire to battle better trainers.

I am not saying that the IVs cannot improve because they can. I even feel that Hyper Training can be improved upon to make it easier and more accessible.

I was also a dick in that post you quoted. Should've went about it better.


EV's are pretty graet because you control them and how they're spread. You can choose to make you're Pokémon faster or hit harder or maybe even take a hit better.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,580
First thing I want to do is apologize for the post before. I didn't mean for it to come off like one of those high horse bullshit post or imply you're lazy even though it did come off that way. My bad for that.

No worries, I got too hostile myself. We're good.

This is just a opinion and I have no proof.

I just replied to a user and said something like "I think the IV system was introduced to put a soft wall between the more competitive players from the casual ones." That's the only reason I can think of for its introduction.

I have guesses but I genuinely have no idea what the true reason was. They have stayed around where as in gen 4 for example the split between types being related to what stat your pokemon uses became physical and special instead. So they have no issue changing big things.

You're right Hyper Training while it's a welcome addition and can be improved so that you can reduce a IV to zero or at any set value is Game Freak casualizing the IV system and makes it so that breeding is a big waste.

The thing about hyper training for me is just that I can put in the work to breed a bunch of shell pokemon with good IVs and Dittos of every nature so that I can effectively make useful pokemon much easier if I put in a lot of hours to get to that point. So having to level to 100 and the IVs not being permanent makes it much more a compliment to breeding than a replacement. Like if I'm fine in 4 stats but really meh in 1 I can just boost it with a bottle cap.

How does Game Freak fixes that? Easy by making improvements to the IV system. But even then the improvements would make it even more complicated it is now (even though I don't view it as complicated).

It has Hidden Power attaches to it and honestly for the most part that's useless.

They can create a system (well it's actually a nightmare if done poorly) base on a Pokémon Nature where if you go for a 4IV build you get points from the none perfect IV that you can put into other stats? Yeah that won't work.

OH!!!! Tie the mother fucker to a fifth move slot.

You have a perfect 6IV Pokémon enjoy your 4 moves. Perfect 5IV Pokémon enjoy your 4 moves.

You have 4 IV's you get a 5th slot for a status or set up move.

You have 3 IV's you get a 5th slot and anymove is available for that Pokémon to learn. If it can learn it.

Honestly, the issue with that is I'd purposely take 30/31 IVs if I could have a 5th move slot. In a heartbeat. Coverage is super important. Besides speed, I'm willing to be below 31 if it meant an extra move slot.

I don't know how you fix IVs. They've made a lot of adjustments to let players control these things. I just find the whole process of making a pokemon is drawn out. Especially given I have made a pokemon, took it online and gotten thrashed to the point where I was like "back to the drawing board" and because of moveset and stat spread (mostly nature, but the games flip flop on reseting EVs) I can't really salvage something with good IVs without just starting again.
 

Beje

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,806
Doing an SOS chain in the last gen and reaching 32 (which is not that complicated) grants you a guaranteed 4 perfect IV Pokémon. Bottle cap farming can be done extremely easy and fast now and lets you get the last 2 IV to perfect as well. Only thing left is the nature but dittos and destiny knot takes care of it, and if you need to change the ability there's an item you can purchase for it too. Now EV training, do a 14 kill chain with the necessary power item equipped (7 if you have pokerus) and there you have 252 points. Repeat the other stats. Congrats, perfect Pokémon in under an hour.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
What postgame content did BW2 have beyond PWT? I'm about to start White 2 after finishing the hide-and-seek minigame that is White's postgame (even if Volt White adds a couple cool cameo battles based on PokeSpe).

That's exactly the opposite of what it did lmao.
Not sure if I'd call it postgame content or not, since while you can't do lots of it until later on and you have lots of Pokémon to work with, it starts to unlock during the main game, but either way, one of the really cool things I personally like in BW2 is the PokéStar Studios stuff.

Basically, the feature sells itself as being about creating movies with your Pokémon. But it's really more like the Battle CDs in Pokémon XD, if you've ever played that. And if not, basically, they're more like little puzzles, revolving around figuring out which Pokémon/which move is appropriate to solving that particular movie, or puzzle if you will. Then, once you're done, you get a little movie as a reward.

And it's not only that--each film has a good ending (when you pick the right move/solution to the puzzle), a bad ending (for most other outcomes), and a secret "weird" ending that unlocks when you technically fulfill the requirements for the puzzle, but instead way other than the intended solution.

And it may not sound like it, but unlocking all that stuff is really fun, especially since a lot of the movies involve scenarios that you just don't see elsewhere in the main Pokémon games. Like fighting against a mechanical Tyranitar's, time-traveling, fighting said time machine, going to a world where Pokémon became the dominant hyper-intelligent species and train and capture humans instead (yes, I'm serious about that), and all kinds of wacky stuff like that if just the fun of figuring out the various puzzles aren't enough.

Seriously, PokéStar Studios are great and are definitely part of the main Pokémon games' history that don't get anywhere near the love they should, IMO.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Apparently it needs to be said again:

Breeding for IVs is not optimal in S/M & USUM. You can use bottle caps at lvl 100 to achieve the same effect.

Apparantly it needs to be said that this 'great alternative' is a giant waste of time all the same. The problem isn't breeding, it's the timesink.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,722
When I first wrote that post I didn't understand the person I quoted. If you scroll down alittle you'll see me and that person finally got on the same page.

AND!!!!

I have this feature that's just for you. It is called Hyper Training that will raise your Pokémon battle stats as if they were 31 IVs.

I've said this before when I came back in Gen 6 the best Pokémon I had was a 3IV one and I was able to win more than I lost battling randoms online. I only ever started breading for better stat Pokémon when I grew a desire to battle better trainers.

I am not saying that the IVs cannot improve because they can. I even feel that Hyper Training can be improved upon to make it easier and more accessible.

I was also a dick in that post you quoted. Should've went about it better.


EV's are pretty graet because you control them and how they're spread. You can choose to make you're Pokémon faster or hit harder or maybe even take a hit better.

The thing with hyper training is that while it is indeed easier its still a grind to get bottle caps (correct me if im wrong.) Its a lot easier than breeding though.

Like I said in my post yes you can beat joe shmoe with some random guys but if you wanna get serious about it, youve gotta have good IVs. Its possible that im overstating this because like I said before my main experience with competitive pokemon is playing on showdown where every pokemon has perfect stats.

I do like the concept of customizing your pokemons stats to make them faster or have better defense exc. I just wish it was more assessable to do so.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Doing an SOS chain in the last gen and reaching 32 (which is not that complicated) grants you a guaranteed 4 perfect IV Pokémon. Bottle cap farming can be done extremely easy and fast now and lets you get the last 2 IV to perfect as well. Only thing left is the nature but dittos and destiny knot takes care of it, and if you need to change the ability there's an item you can purchase for it too. Now EV training, do a 14 kill chain with the necessary power item equipped (7 if you have pokerus) and there you have 252 points. Repeat the other stats. Congrats, perfect Pokémon in under an hour.

Yeah, and lets just skip the part where your mon has to be lvl 100 first for that 'under an hour'(which is blatantly untrue to begin with). So a whole lot of shit and several hours to get a single functioning mon, -assuming- you already have everything set-up already.

Yeah this system sounds great. Definitely not convoluted or a big waste of time at all. I bet my friends interested in the online aspect are gonna get right into competitive with this simple stuff.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,156
Limburg
Apparantly it needs to be said that this 'great alternative' is a giant waste of time all the same. The problem isn't breeding, it's the timesink.

It's really not a big timesink compared to how it was in previous gens. Could it be better? Sure. This poster know what's up though:

Doing an SOS chain in the last gen and reaching 32 (which is not that complicated) grants you a guaranteed 4 perfect IV Pokémon. Bottle cap farming can be done extremely easy and fast now and lets you get the last 2 IV to perfect as well. Only thing left is the nature but dittos and destiny knot takes care of it, and if you need to change the ability there's an item you can purchase for it too. Now EV training, do a 14 kill chain with the necessary power item equipped (7 if you have pokerus) and there you have 252 points. Repeat the other stats. Congrats, perfect Pokémon in under an hour.
 

Beje

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,806
Streamline the process so it's not as convoluted is perfectly fine, as it would change busywork with something a little bit more meaningful or involved. I'm the first one that agrees that we should not rely on as much information from outside the game as we do.

However, just discussing that EVs/IVs should go away and/or people should get perfect Pokémon by default or get to directly punch in the values you want is high bullshit as wanting to take part of a competitive community putting zero effort and zero time and still being good. There's already a product if that's what you want, it's Showdown and the Smogon tiers.
 

Deleted member 2340

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,661
No worries, I got too hostile myself. We're good.



I have guesses but I genuinely have no idea what the true reason was. They have stayed around where as in gen 4 for example the split between types being related to what stat your pokemon uses became physical and special instead. So they have no issue changing big things.



The thing about hyper training for me is just that I can put in the work to breed a bunch of shell pokemon with good IVs and Dittos of every nature so that I can effectively make useful pokemon much easier if I put in a lot of hours to get to that point. So having to level to 100 and the IVs not being permanent makes it much more a compliment to breeding than a replacement. Like if I'm fine in 4 stats but really meh in 1 I can just boost it with a bottle cap.



Honestly, the issue with that is I'd purposely take 30/31 IVs if I could have a 5th move slot. In a heartbeat. Coverage is super important. Besides speed, I'm willing to be below 31 if it meant an extra move slot.

I don't know how you fix IVs. They've made a lot of adjustments to let players control these things. I just find the whole process of making a pokemon is drawn out. Especially given I have made a pokemon, took it online and gotten thrashed to the point where I was like "back to the drawing board" and because of moveset and stat spread (mostly nature, but the games flip flop on reseting EVs) I can't really salvage something with good IVs without just starting again.


I forgot you had a competitive mind.

For the fifth slot you would be able BS you're way.

I was thinking the if it's a 4 IV and the fifth was a supporting move the two IVs would almost have to be at zero which would bring down the overall rating of that Pokémon.

And for the 3 IV Pokémon that can use any move it's capable of learning as a fifth the missing IVs would have to be pretty low to bring down its overall rating to unlock the Fifth move slot.


I know it won't happen and I'm just not ready yet to give up on the IV system yet because I believe it can revamped to a point where it brings something to the table.
 

Angry Chair

Member
May 14, 2018
102
I have a pretty simple question for you. What do EV's and IV's add to the games except for busy work?
Without either or natures, the amount of things one Pokemon can do is minimized. The most used Pokemon in the current VGC format is Incineroar with 56.24% of people having him on their teams and yet he is used in tons of different ways as his most common build is used just 3.716% of the time.

https://pikalytics.com/pokedex
Yes, and this betterment can be achieved through removing IVs. Simple.
Just removing IVs is not a valid solution. Gamefreak should just lower the requirement to use bottle caps to level 50 because that's the standard competition battling level.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Streamline the process so it's not as convoluted is perfectly fine, as it would change busywork with something a little bit more meaningful or involved.

However, just discussing that EVs/IVs should go away and/or people should get perfect Pokémon by default or get to directly punch in the values you want is high bullshit as wanting to take part of a competitive community putting zero effort and zero time and still being good. There's already a product if that's what you want, it's Showdown and the Smogon tiers.

I don't think there's anything to gain by removing EVs as they're so integral to builds, but removing IVs barely affects anything and just removes a big problem.

It's not like having perfect IV mons makes you good anyway, it only makes your mons not objectively worse than everyone else. The actual part of being good in competitive is learning the different strategies people use and how to counter them, making different builds and seeing what works, predicting opponent decisions and the like.

To make a comparison to a Fighting Game for example, two Ryus will always technically be equal in character strength, but its the player that knows how and when to use moves and has mastered advanced mechanics that'll actually win.

Same case with Pokemon. Removing IVs just makes Pokemon equal initial ground, and everything else will always be determined by player skill. There doesn't need to be a barrier just to get that equal initial ground.
 

Deleted member 2340

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,661
The thing with hyper training is that while it is indeed easier its still a grind to get bottle caps (correct me if im wrong.) Its a lot easier than breeding though.

Like I said in my post yes you can beat joe shmoe with some random guys but if you wanna get serious about it, youve gotta have good IVs. Its possible that im overstating this because like I said before my main experience with competitive pokemon is playing on showdown where every pokemon has perfect stats.

I do like the concept of customizing your pokemons stats to make them faster or have better defense exc. I just wish it was more assessable to do so.


I can't swear by this because I haven't done it personally yet but you can get them daily in the festival plaza and there's this (not really) hack with level 2 lottos. The first prize you always get from them is always going to be a bottle cap so when you get one just delete it and find someone in the festival plaza with it and re get it to get that first bottle cap. Rinse and repeat.

Please look it up to get the proper way to do it before attempting because I haven't done it yet myself. I don't want to lead you the wrong way and have you waste your time if my info isn't 100% accurate.
 

Beje

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,806
Without either or natures, the amount of things one Pokemon can do is minimized. The most used Pokemon in the current VGC format is Incineroar with 56.24% of people having him on their teams and yet he is used in tons of different ways as his most common build is used just 3.716% of the time.

https://pikalytics.com/pokedex

Just removing IVs is not a valid solution. Gamefreak should just lower the requirement to use bottle caps to level 50 because that's the standard competition battling level.

Just that would be a very good solution, bottle caps at 50, make them possible to purchase, offer an easy way to reset EVs aside for farming berries and you pretty much only have to look at nature and whether or not you want the hidden ability.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Just removing IVs is not a valid solution. Gamefreak should just lower the requirement to use bottle caps to level 50 because that's the standard competition battling level.

I'm really not seeing the actual problem with removing them, but even if they're not removed it could be made significantly easier than that. Just make bottlecaps a fairly affordable item in stores which you can buy in bulk with some decent money, and they can be used on any level.

Boom, IVs kept, timesink almost gone.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,156
Limburg
Yes, and this betterment can be achieved through removing IVs. Simple.

Nothing simple about that bud. Removing the stats people have already balanced their teams for isn't simple. You act like a flat global removal of IVs would have a flat global effect. This is demonstrably not the case. If my entire alakazam build is based on a focus blast killing specific dark threats with an EV spread and IVs to match, removing IVs would make it much less powerful and able to kill less threats. Entire teams are balanced around specific EV/IV setups right now. Ok, so you made hidden power not IV dependent, ok? So what? Now the 28IVs I put into a stat for HP Ice or whatever don't count for shit. Now I'm just 2 IVs short with this build.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,722
Without either or natures, the amount of things one Pokemon can do is minimized.

I snipped out more of your post than I intended to but this is very interesting to me. Back when I was into competitive (gen 5) this was definitely not the case (I think.) And as interesting as I do find it I dont think that EVs or natures should be removed. I did lump EVs into my initial post but I do think acquiring EVs has been simplified enough to make them fairly assessable. Having to earn BP in order to get the items that make EV training easier is still a bummer.

My real nemesis is IVs which like I said before, are a huge time sink. While having IVs makes for more intricate builds and I dont necessarily think they should be removed I just think it needs to be simplified. It's way easier to create a lot of builds on showdown because you can create a pokemon in like 2 minutes. When you have to spend a bunch of time breeding IVs it's just flat out not fun. When your playing a shooter, fighting game or racing game you improve by playing and practicing, not walking back and forth on a path for 20+ hours trying to hatch the right pokemon. I understand that some people probably spend hours practicing blocks in the training mode in a fighting game and that sucks too.

That's what makes showdown great. You get all of the fun of messing with stats and builds without the grind.
 

Beje

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,806
Having to earn BP in order to get the items that make EV training easier is still a bummer.

No longer the case. IIRC in USUM all except one are scattered in Poni Island around the post-game area, and for the only one you need BP you can farm it on the Mantine Ride minigame or winning in battle royale
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,722
I can't swear by this because I haven't done it personally yet but you can get them daily in the festival plaza and there's this (not really) hack with level 2 lottos. The first prize you always get from them is always going to be a bottle cap so when you get one just delete it and find someone in the festival plaza with it and re get it to get that first bottle cap. Rinse and repeat.

Please look it up to get the proper way to do it before attempting because I haven't done it yet myself. I don't want to lead you the wrong way and have you waste your time if my info isn't 100% accurate.

As great as that advice is and I really do appreciate it, it a not a real solution to the problem as much as it's a workaround to the problem.

No longer the case. IIRC in USUM all except one are scattered in Poni Island around the post-game area, and for the only one you need BP you can farm it on the Mantine Ride minigame or winning in battle royale

This is great to know. That's a great improvement to the old way.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Nothing simple about that bud. Removing the stats people have already balanced their teams for isn't simple. You act like a flat global removal of IVs would have a flat global effect. This is demonstrably not the case. If my entire alakazam build is based on a focus blast killing specific dark threats with an EV spread and IVs to match, removing IVs would make it much less powerful and able to kill less threats. Entire teams are balanced around specific EV/IV setups right now. Ok, so you made hidden power not IV dependent, ok? So what? Now the 28IVs I put into a stat for HP Ice or whatever don't count for shit. Now I'm just 2 IVs short with this build.

When I say 'remove them', I mean 'remove their worth'. Make them 31 by default, so they're essentially a non-factor.
There's very, very few scenarios where you need to actually reduce them(Trick Room, confusion damage), and even there it's not exactly a make it or break it scenario. Confusion damage isn't much of a thing for special attackers to begin with, and trick room mons are already slow enough with -Speed nature and 0 EVs in Speed that they don't have an issue functioning either way. And this is accounting for what's already an incredibly niche strategy.

So what's left? Hidden power? Assign what its type is based on something else instead, or let you choose which type you want when you learn it. There, i just made the whole dumb hidden power process infinitely easier to deal with in one shot.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
Vancouver, BC
Nothing simple about that bud. Removing the stats people have already balanced their teams for isn't simple. You act like a flat global removal of IVs would have a flat global effect. This is demonstrably not the case. If my entire alakazam build is based on a focus blast killing specific dark threats with an EV spread and IVs to match, removing IVs would make it much less powerful and able to kill less threats. Entire teams are balanced around specific EV/IV setups right now. Ok, so you made hidden power not IV dependent, ok? So what? Now the 28IVs I put into a stat for HP Ice or whatever don't count for shit. Now I'm just 2 IVs short with this build.
None of this makes sense unless you don't understand how IVs work. It is an extremely poor argument either way as you think people shouldn't have to adapt to changes in the games.
 

Magic Kaito

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
When I say 'remove them', I mean 'remove their worth'. Make them 31 by default, so they're essentially a non-factor.
There's very, very few scenarios where you need to actually reduce them(Trick Room, confusion damage), and even there it's not exactly a make it or break it scenario. Confusion damage isn't much of a thing for special attackers to begin with, and trick room mons are already slow enough with -Speed nature and 0 EVs in Speed that they don't have an issue functioning either way. And this is accounting for what's already an incredibly niche strategy.

So what's left? Hidden power? Assign what its type is based on something else instead, or let you choose which type you want when you learn it.
To be fair, they're already halfway there with solving the IV problem. All they have to do in Gen 8 is make bottle caps easy to obtain, and maybe introduce ones that let you increase/decrease in increments of 1 if they have no intention of changing how Hidden Power works.
 

Deleted member 2340

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,661
As great as that advice is and I really do appreciate it, it a not a real solution to the problem as much as it's a workaround to the problem.


Well I didn't claim it was perfect. Hell the Hyper Training itself can also be improved. It's a faster solution to the breeding and honestly it lets you keep the Pokémon you've been rolling with from story to Meta.

It's an improvement that needs to be improved and expanded in my opinion.

Rome wasn't built in a day.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,345
To get people into battling more, they should expand on Gen 7's team rental system and have some pre-built pokemon they can rent to use for battling with, similar to Pokemon Stadiums in that degree. Since there's no Ranked Battle and it's just casuals you can get away with having it, help people get online fighting sooner if they don't want to form a full team.

They could use the list of Battle Facility pokemon for it, it's a pre-built list already, why not re-use it and let people pick from it, Maybe given each set names and themes on how to use it like "Focus on spreading poison to the opponents team" or "Use Wish and Heal Bell to keep the rest of your team healthy"

(Assuming they'll have a Battle Facility that is.)
 

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
IVs and breeding overall are a huge, unnecessary bummer. What a barrier for entry to the average fan who wants to play competitively.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,929
I hope the UI design is streamlined. I just popped in Sun and the UI is a complete mess. So many menus and sub menus and changing button assignments for simple things. Hot mess.
 

Mashy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,184
Streamline the process so it's not as convoluted is perfectly fine, as it would change busywork with something a little bit more meaningful or involved. I'm the first one that agrees that we should not rely on as much information from outside the game as we do.

However, just discussing that EVs/IVs should go away and/or people should get perfect Pokémon by default or get to directly punch in the values you want is high bullshit as wanting to take part of a competitive community putting zero effort and zero time and still being good. There's already a product if that's what you want, it's Showdown and the Smogon tiers.

Pretty much this. The people complaining about EVs and especially IVs just dont want to work and spend the time on a relatively simple process. It really isnt hard to get what you want and you dont need to 6IV everything. 5IV mons are already easy to get and are very usable in the competitive space. Its, again, another instance of wanting to simplify the game even more when it honestly just needs a few changes.

Bottlecaps are also so dang useful if you dont wanna put in the effort.

IVs and breeding overall are a huge, unnecessary bummer. What a barrier for entry to the average fan who wants to play competitively.

It really isnt.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,135
Off topic but I have a question on hatching eggs in ultra moon.

I'm going for 2 shiny eevees, have shiny charm and am using masuda method (have an umbreon I caught and evolved and a Japan Eevee).

From what I understand the eggs go through a cycle and a shiny can be determined such as with that Magikarp method.

I've been keeping my eevees in the daycare while I hatch 5 boxes worth at a time. Does that mess anything up? I'm worried I'm "skipping" eggs which might have been shiny. I'm up to 700 hatched with no shiny (which is acceptable..)
 

shan780

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
2,566
UK
IVs and breeding overall are a huge, unnecessary bummer. What a barrier for entry to the average fan who wants to play competitively.

it is easier than ever to get desirable IVs and natures. it's not like you are completely screwed if your IVs aren't perfect anyway.

one of the main ideas in Pokemon is training up your team and putting in effort to become "the very best", and part of that means putting in time to research the mechanics

admittedly, they do need to do a better job of explaining the mechanics behind EVs and IVs in-game
 

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
Breeding being location-based, time-based, and limited to like 2 or 3 slots means it a tedious, unfun process attractive to only the most tenacious players.

IVs are only stats. Numbers. It's akin to an 80's roleplaying game, or a text adventure on an old computer. As long as you have graphics, you shouldn't have to use your imagination. IVs need representation by colors, clothes, body type, auras, customization, or something else that's visible on the model in-game.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,955

considering its the one thing preventing me from bothering to play more online, it most definitely is. You can test teams on showdown before deciding to spend many hours of your life grinding out the best possible versions of those Pokemon to use in that team. The grind isn't even fun, its just busywork in a game where you already need to level up to 100 to even use a disposable item to fake-max your IV even though online battles are at level 50?

If you want to do pokemon battles competitively and dont want to take the time in game just play on
https://pokemonshowdown.com

That removes all personality from the game, and they're not the pokemon that you trained so theres no personal connection.
 

Mashy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,184
It could stand to be about 70 times more intuitive than it is.

I mean they already made it much easier in S/M with the inclusion of bottle caps. You dont need perfect IV Pokemon to be competitave and there are also communities out there that trade breedjects. Heck, half the time on wonder trade youre likely to get a breedject which you can use to start your breeding process.

Could it be more streamlined? Yes. But is it a massive barrier and an UNNECESSARY bummer? No, it really isnt. They have made it much easier than it used to be and will probably make minor changes for the 2019 game. It really isnt that hard to start.
 

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
I mean they already made it much easier in S/M with the inclusion of bottle caps. You dont need perfect IV Pokemon to be competitave and there are also communities out there that trade breedjects. Heck, half the time on wonder trade youre likely to get a breedject which you can use to start your breeding process.

Could it be more streamlined? Yes. But is it a massive barrier and an UNNECESSARY bummer? No, it really isnt. They have made it much easier than it used to be and will probably make minor changes for the 2019 game. It really isnt that hard to start.
I thought about why I didn't like the mechanics altogether and posted some suggestions above.

They fixed HMs by adding the Ride Pokémon mechanic. They just need to do that with breeding and IVs in some way and they could have a far more enjoyable experience on their hands.
 

Magic Kaito

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
The grind isn't even fun, its just busywork in a game where you already need to level up to 100 to even use a disposable item to fake-max your IV even though online battles are at level 50?
Almost forgot about that. Yeah, the level requirement for hyper training is just plain dumb and needs to be lowered/dropped.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,156
Limburg
Breeding being location-based, time-based, and limited to like 2 or 3 slots means it a tedious, unfun process attractive to only the most tenacious players.

IVs are only stats. Numbers. It's akin to an 80's roleplaying game, or a text adventure on an old computer. As long as you have graphics, you shouldn't have to use your imagination. IVs need representation by colors, clothes, body type, auras, customization, or something else that's visible on the model in-game.

Once more, you do not have to breed for IVs since Sun and Moon. You can hyper train them with bottle caps. If you keep restating incorrect assumptions it doesn't make them corrects.
 

Deleted member 2340

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,661
I mean they already made it much easier in S/M with the inclusion of bottle caps. You dont need perfect IV Pokemon to be competitave and there are also communities out there that trade breedjects. Heck, half the time on wonder trade youre likely to get a breedject which you can use to start your breeding process.

Could it be more streamlined? Yes. But is it a massive barrier and an UNNECESSARY bummer? No, it really isnt. They have made it much easier than it used to be and will probably make minor changes for the 2019 game. It really isnt that hard to start.


Just a heads up. I had a 12 hour car ride today and I've spent the better part of it doing what you're doing explaining everything I can about the IV system and the Hyper Training and right now it feels like someone opened up my skull and took a massive shit in it. It's only worth it if you leave the thread after 10 minutes of trying to get your point across.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,580
I mean they already made it much easier in S/M with the inclusion of bottle caps. You dont need perfect IV Pokemon to be competitave and there are also communities out there that trade breedjects. Heck, half the time on wonder trade youre likely to get a breedject which you can use to start your breeding process.

Could it be more streamlined? Yes. But is it a massive barrier and an UNNECESSARY bummer? No, it really isnt. They have made it much easier than it used to be and will probably make minor changes for the 2019 game. It really isnt that hard to start.

Sun and Moon made breeding a lot easier but you still gotta remember that games exist before S&M. People have had to deal with breading for decades. The fact that it's finally only moderately shit instead extremely shit is not a "gotcha". Bottlecaps being usable at level 50 would help a ton though. Whoever mentioned that I agree. And I agree with you that you don't need perfect IV pokemon to compete (not at all actually), but I super don't see the point of IVs from a competitive standpoint. It's busy work with the end goal being that all competitive minded players have essentially just raised every pokemons base minimums 31 points.

EVs allow for builds that have variability built in when combined with natures. Do you go for a jolly nature with more EVs Invested in attack and say hp or do you go adamant all out attack and accept being outsped in certain scenarios but with power as a make up. In combo with stat buffing moves you can create lots of mixes. IVs don't actually do shit for the strategy building of a mon. That's why its a shitty mechanic imo. It's literal busy work. SOS chain 32 times is busy work even if it's easy. It's just a mechanically pointless inclusion. What reason is there to not go for 31s besides hidden power and trick room?
 

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
Once more, you do not have to breed for IVs since Sun and Moon. You can hyper train them with bottle caps. If you keep restating incorrect assumptions it doesn't make them corrects.
You responded to the post, but didn't address the actual grievances elaborated upon. My problem isn't mainly with the ease of getting perfect Pokémon, it's with the lack of appeal of the mechanics themselves.
 

shan780

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
2,566
UK
Sun and Moon made breeding a lot easier but you still gotta remember that games exist before S&M. People have had to deal with breading for decades. The fact that it's finally only moderately shit instead extremely shit is not a "gotcha". Bottlecaps being usable at level 50 would help a ton though. Whoever mentioned that I agree. And I agree with you that you don't need perfect IV pokemon to compete (not at all actually), but I super don't see the point of IVs from a competitive standpoint. It's busy work with the end goal being that all competitive minded players have essentially just raised every pokemons base minimums 31 points.

EVs allow for builds that have variability built in when combined with natures. Do you go for a jolly nature with more EVs Invested in attack and say hp or do you go adamant all out attack and accept being outsped in certain scenarios but with power as a make up. In combo with stat buffing moves you can create lots of mixes. IVs don't actually do shit for the strategy building of a mon. That's why its a shitty mechanic imo. It's literal busy work. SOS chain 32 times is busy work even if it's easy. It's just a mechanically pointless inclusion. What reason is there to not go for 31s besides hidden power and trick room?

you might want to have a specific one if you need to be slower or faster than a specific Pokemon in doubles, or you might want to minimize your attack IV such that you can deal with specific threats while taking minimal damage from confusion. IIRC an odd HP value will allow you to avoid dying from 2 stealth rock switch-ins as a Pokemon that's 4x weak to it

edit:
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/stakataka/vgc18/

this VGC 18 stakataka set wants 17 defence IVs so that the defence stat is as good as it can be while keeping the attack stat higher so beast boost will raise attack
 
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