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goonergaz

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,710
I had my month trial, then when it lapsed I was offered 3 months for £8 and that's lapsed so I have another £8 for 3 months offer...so, that's 7 months for £16 of which I get about 20% off through deals so around £2pm.

They have started putting new games on it too...so hardly surprising they have 'millions' of subs...I wonder also how many of those subs are people using 1month trials with multiple accounts and bing points?

Be nice to get some real figures.
 

Deleted member 16365

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,127
So long as you get new games day and date as the regular release, and the price is the same as two titles for an entire year of GP it's really a no brainer.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,799
I mean, it would be cheaper for me. That's in my self interests. I'm all for it.

It's in your self interests in the short term because you'd get a quality game for less, but if they're not able to make a healthy profit by having those top-tier AAA games on this service then chances are you would no longer get top-tier AAA games in the future. We'd probably wind up with games that are chopped up to sell DLC or half-assed (compared to what we're getting now) because they can't justify the necessary budget for such a title.
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,605
Goes to show that content is more important than ever for them. I imagine the numbers will grow even more when the likes of Gears 5 and Halo Infinite launch and people play those games month after month.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
Some would argue that Xbox Live is $10/month as well. If we're discussing the actual pricing per month that is. Buying an annual sub works out to $5 per month, though it's obviously all up front.
Does anyone actually waste money like that and just buy a month at a time of Xbox Live? And even then, that's if you pay MSRP. They're very frequently on sale.

I'd bet most people are only spending $10-$15 per month total for game pass and Xbox Live.
 

Ismailman

Member
Oct 29, 2017
145
Black Friday has 12 month Gamepass for $70 and Live is usually goes for $40.

Just buy your yearly passes on Black Friday and you get both for under $10/month. Just an insanely ridiculous value.
 

Fishook

Member
Dec 20, 2017
814
I still reckon a awful lot of kids/casual gamers buy Xbox live codes etc from stores. Not everybody can afford or justify large amounts in one go. It the same people who buy stuff like consoles/laptops on credit and you end up paying nearly double.
 

Taffy Lewis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,527
You can't take advantage of those deals (most of the time) until you are 3 months without subscribing.

Even the deals that does not have that caveat are only offered to those that are not currently subscribing.

They have all kinds of deals all the time, even for users that are currently subscribed. Just recently 6 month cards were half-off on Amazon.
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
Ya I was iffy at first with it, but now I'll always be a subscriber. Greatest deal I've ever had in gaming,
 

Deleted member 15447

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,728
I went happy with it when I got my X and played a bunch of older games. Still felt the value was there.

But new releases such as Forza, Grip, Crackdown and more make it a no brainer.
 

Memento

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,129
How much software does Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo sells per year on average? First party software I mean.

If we had that data we could extrapolate how many subscribers these companies would need to have to outgross the raw revenue they make with software sales per year.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
I wonder how many users it has to have to be profitable considering subscription revenue x games put on the service budget?

Lets say it has 2 million users right now, that means: 2 million x $10 = 20 million dollars per month.

If they had 10 million subscribers, that would mean $120 million in revenue per year from the service. $120 million cant cover a single big AAA title productions values nowadays. Lets take Halo Infinite for example, that game will definitely be 100+ million (budget + marketing). So they would need an entire year at an astounding install base of 10 million subscribers to pay for 1 AAA game on their service. Then you can say they will still get revenue from the game selling at $60, but I would guess as the service becomes bigger, people will eventually get their first party MS games only on GP.

And I am not even couting the third party royalties, which we know nothing how it works...
10 million users would brought over 1bi in annual revenue (1.2 to be more exact)
 

Chris.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,920
Yeah I realized that after posting it lol.

I wonder if these companies make more than 1 billion in first party software revenue per year?

Because if the answer is no, investing on the GamePass model is a no brainer.
$1 billion is 16.67M sales at $60. With how fast games drop in price these days you're probably looking at about ~20M sales as a more realistic figure... unless you're GTA V :P

The only company I can think of that can do that without much issue is Nintendo probably but even then they would need 2 of their big franchises out in that year to reach it which isn't always a guarantee (But then they don't have the third party to pad out a game pass equivelant, so it'd probably work out worse for them anyways). I'm not even sure if Sony would reach that this year even with GoW and Spidey.
 
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Paxton25

Member
May 9, 2018
1,899
I'm a few years this will be a billion dollar service once you include people buy DLC cheaper thro it etc. It's definitely the future of gaming for many people.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,687
The Milky Way
I had my month trial, then when it lapsed I was offered 3 months for £8 and that's lapsed so I have another £8 for 3 months offer...so, that's 7 months for £16 of which I get about 20% off through deals so around £2pm.

They have started putting new games on it too...so hardly surprising they have 'millions' of subs...I wonder also how many of those subs are people using 1month trials with multiple accounts and bing points?

Be nice to get some real figures.
Indeed, I believe 93% of Netflix's 137 million subscribers are just fake Gmail accounts and virtual cards on the free 30 day trial.
 

Memento

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,129
$1 billion is 16.67M sales at $60. With how fast games drop in price these days you're probably looking at about ~20M sales as a more realistic figure.

The only company I can think of that can do that without much issue is Nintendo probably but even then they would need 2 of their big franchises out in that year to reach it. I'm not even sure if Sony would reach that this year even with GoW and Spidey.

Ok, so my conclusion (correct if I am saying dumb stuff):

I will take Sony in 2018 to make my point.

This year will probably be their biggest ever in terms of first party software sales. Both God of War and Spiderman will easily sell 20 million together. Lets extrapolate at least 10 million out of those 20 million copies to be sold at full price, which means $600 million in revenue. The rest of 10 million will count discount codes, black friday sales, etc. Lets eat half of that price, so 10 million x $30 = $300 million. Then we have other stuff, like MLB18, Detroit, Shadow of the Colossus and other smaller stuff. Lets be gentle and say it ends up at 5 million, giving it an average pricetag of $30, which means $150 million. Then there are sales of old games. All in all, we are looking at ~1.4 billion in revenue in their best year ever and being extremely generous with every data.

To reach that kind of revenue, they would need 10 million GamePass subscribers per year, making 1.2 billion. Considering they can sell their games to 10 million different people at $60, the inference we can have here is that putting those desired games on the service would make people migrate to there, after all they will all be $10 instead of $60. So it is not that hard to make it attractive and reach that kind of audience if they want it. That said, keeping these people subscribed is another question. Keeping the content hot is the secret. What if people subscribe just to play TLOU2 and then let it expires? Content is the key here and I am sure they would find a lot of third party studios interested in putting their games on a service with so much visibility (considering 10 million subscribers).

Eventially, those 10 million subscribers can grow. But their annual revenue by first party software will never reach those highs every year. 1.4 bi per year is the exception. At 15 million subscribers they have 1.8bi revenue per year. And so on.

All in all, yeah... I think it is a good strategy.

Unless I am missing something?
 

Chris.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,920
Ok, so my conclusion (correct if I am saying dumb stuff):

I will take Sony in 2018 to make my point.

This year will probably be their biggest ever in terms of first party software sales. Both God of War and Spiderman will easily sell 20 million together. Lets extrapolate at least 10 million out of those 20 million copies to be sold at full price, which means $600 million in revenue. The rest of 10 million will count discount codes, black friday sales, etc. Lets eat half of that price, so 10 million x $30 = $300 million. Then we have other stuff, like MLB18, Detroit, Shadow of the Colossus and other smaller stuff. Lets be gentle and say it ends up at 5 million, giving it an average pricetag of $30, which means $150 million. Then there are sales of old games. All in all, we are looking at ~1.4 billion in revenue in their best year ever and being extremely generous with every data.

To reach that kind of revenue, they would need 10 million GamePass subscribers per year, making 1.2 billion. Considering they can sell their games to 10 million different people at $60, the inference we can have here is that putting those desired games on the service would make people migrate to there, after all they will all be $10 instead of $60. So it is not that hard to make it attractive and reach that kind of audience if they want it. That said, keeping these people subscribed is another question. Keeping the content hot is the secret. What if people subscribe just to play TLOU2 and then let it expires? Content is the key here and I am sure they would find a lot of third party studios interested in putting their games on a service with so much visibility (considering 10 million subscribers).

Eventially, those 10 million subscribers can grow. But their annual revenue by first party software will never reach those highs every year. 1.4 bi per year is the exception. At 15 million subscribers they have 1.8bi revenue per year. And so on.

All in all, yeah... I think it is a good strategy.

Unless I am missing something?
There's also the benefit of a larger userbase that were basically given your game for free to sell DLC and MTX to. But yeah. Plus people will always buy games outright so it's not like game revenue will be $0.

But 10M is a large number for a subscription service, especially locked down to Xbox/PS/Nintendo only. Might be able to reach it when it comes out on PC and streaming services comes out. But let's not underestimate 10M subscribers either (I get the impression you think it's easily done, jumping up to 15M and stuff... 10m is a difficult task). As good as a deal as it is, it's probably never gonna get the latest FIFA, COD, GTA and so on day and date.. And that instantly makes it crap value for a large part of the userbase who only buy those games year in year out.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
You can also get gamepass and gold for free using MS rewards... Comparing non permanent deals and/or giveaways seems kinda pointless, it's better to stick to msrp.

If you only want to use the best MSRP available at all times, price for Gold plus Gamepass for 12mo. is $180. The Price for PS Now is the same. So at worst they cost the same. But the $99/yr option happens every year like clockwork and makes a reliable price below what is typically available for Gold plus Gamepass even including sales. People farming MS rewards aren't comparable.

Unless I am missing something?

You are missing the fact that Sony keeps all the revenue from first party game sales and MS is probably sharing a huge portion of Gamepass revenue with third parties. The more subscribers MS has, the more expensive the third party licencing becomes.
 

Memento

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,129
You are missing the fact that Sony keeps all the revenue from first party game sales and MS is probably sharing a huge portion of Gamepass revenue with third parties. The more subscribers MS has, the more expensive the third party licencing becomes.

Do we have any idea how much the third parties receives in a situation like this?

Is it download-based? The more downloads your game gets the more you receives?
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
This image blows my mind. No way I thought PS Now (even with the much higher install base) would be this high.

Sony not only has a much higher instal base, their service has been out much longer and charge twice as much. Game Pass is a baby and it's only been the past 7 months the quality picked up. They're giving it away to gain mindshare. Wouldn't be surprised to see that revenue tripled this time next year.
 

NightmareT

Banned
Aug 21, 2018
116
I was surprised it took until post #140 for the pie chart to appear.

Game Pass will do really well when (if?) Microsoft gets their first party output truly in gear.

I'd say 1.4 million. Millions being plural requires there to be a multiple of a million, so at least two million.


is interesting, on spanish we say "1.4 milloneS", not "1.4 millon" it reads back

english is not my primary language but i find this

GjZQjJg.png
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,588
I wonder how many users it has to have to be profitable considering subscription revenue x games put on the service budget?

Lets say it has 2 million users right now, that means: 2 million x $10 = 20 million dollars per month.

If they had 10 million subscribers, that would mean $120 million in revenue per year from the service. $120 million cant cover a single big AAA title productions values nowadays. Lets take Halo Infinite for example, that game will definitely be 100+ million (budget + marketing). So they would need an entire year at an astounding install base of 10 million subscribers to pay for 1 AAA game on their service. Then you can say they will still get revenue from the game selling at $60, but I would guess as the service becomes bigger, people will eventually get their first party MS games only on GP.

And I am not even couting the third party royalties, which we know nothing how it works...

10 million times 10= 100 million times 12 = 1.2 billion.