Phil Spencer: Amazon and Google are ‘the main competitors going forward’ in relation to Sony and Nintendo’s ability to create a cloud infrastructure

Zen · Feb 5, 2020

Phil is being clever by name dropping Sony and Nintendo while actually talking about infrastructure. An unaware investor would conflate them and that's his angle.

I hope that in 10 years the physical infrastructure of data cables, centers, and nodes around the world will be much improved, because unless that gets majorly revamped saying 7 billion is a bit of a stretch no? That was always the major shortcoming of streaming games.

rokkerkory · Feb 5, 2020

Good grief, I feel whenever Spencer says anything fanboys from both sides come out of the woodwork to support or crucify him.

DoradoWinston · Feb 5, 2020

Wollan said:
Microsoft not evolving their controller

If you you ignore the shit ton of stuff they have done with controllers this gen then yes

superbright · Feb 5, 2020

LewieP said:
Yes they did. Did you read the part of my post where I said I was thinking of Halo and Forza etc.

Why do you think Ori and Cuphead etc aren't on Playstation? I think the most likely explanation is that Microsoft don't want to release their games on their most direct competitor.

But Phil isn't talking about games, he's talking about cloud. If Microsoft did see Sony as competition then why provide azure as the backbone for Ps Now which could potentially strengthen their brand? To me that signals that it's because they see bolstering Sony's offering as an opportunity which could allow them to be a part of a whole portfolio of services. Let's say Microsoft had their own service and they were also providing the technology for PS Now and a Nintendo streaming service, Azure platforms would have a way larger catalogue of established, well known games that Google and Amazon simply couldn't compete with. It's about selling the tech not the box.

GUNDAM STARDUST · Feb 5, 2020

Google trying to shoehorn into all of MS traditional businesses. They are absolutely out to kill MS. Amazon is a juggernaut with AWS and has the capital to be a problem. I can absolutely understand why Phil would say that. These guys are fighting over a rather large and lucrative pie.

TheUnsungHero26 · Feb 5, 2020

Seems like people aren't looking at the bigger picture (or reading the article...). This is about the infrastructure, of which Microsoft is absolutely competing with Google and Amazon.

LewieP · Feb 5, 2020

superbright said:
But Phil isn't talking about games, he's talking about cloud. If Microsoft did see Sony as competition then why provide azure as the backbone for Ps Now which could potentially strengthen their brand? To me that signals that it's because they see bolstering Sony's offering as an opportunity which could allow them to be a part of a whole portfolio of services. Let's say Microsoft had their own service and they were also providing the technology for PS Now and a Nintendo streaming service, Azure platforms would have a way larger catalogue of established, well known games that Google and Amazon simply couldn't compete with. It's about selling the tech not the box.

He said:

I don't want to be in a fight over format wars with those guys while Amazon and Google are focusing on how to get gaming to 7 billion people around the world.

Whilst actively engaging in a format war with Sony and Nintendo.

But anyone who scrutinises this inconsistency must be a fanboy.

Shpeshal Nick · Feb 5, 2020

Wollan said:
Already we see Microsoft not evolving their controller because of cross-gen

Why would you need to evolve near perfection? They added they only thing they arguably needed to add in a share button. They shrunk the size down slightly and adjusted the DPad.

That's about as much as you'd want to evolve a controller that's effectively perfect.

superbright · Feb 5, 2020

LewieP said:
He said:

Whilst actively engaging in a format war with Sony and Nintendo.

But anyone who scrutinises this inconsistency must be a fanboy.

I'm not making any accusations about you friend, I hope you didn't think I was trying to.
All I'm trying to do is have the discussion about what he means. To me I think Phil had his Azure hat on when he said this and was trying to show how serious they are about Azure for gaming by saying that's where their real business lies hence why he downplays their console business by saying they don't want to engage in format wars.

slavesnyder · Feb 5, 2020

it's nice to see microsoft sticking to the tradition of mehdi's billion-user-goal from the xbox one launch (which they only missed by a nose).

LewieP · Feb 5, 2020

superbright said:
I'm not making any accusations about you friend, I hope you didn't think I was trying to.
All I'm trying to do is have the discussion about what he means. To me I think Phil had his Azure hat on when he said this and was trying to show how serious they are about Azure for gaming by saying that's where their real business lies hence why he downplays their console business by saying they don't want to engage in format wars.

Yeah that wasn't directed at you, just at others in this thread that seemingly don't want anything Phil says to be questioned at all.

I know what he is talking about. It is absolutely disingenuous to pretend that they are not competing with Sony or Nintendo though. They obviously are.

They are actively engaged in a format war with Sony and Nintendo. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I also don't think it's really useful to pretend otherwise.

Wollan · Feb 5, 2020

Shpeshal Ed said:
That's about as much as you'd want to evolve a controller that's effectively perfect.

I think a gyro is something that's a norm on most other platforms at this point.
They could also build in support for full 6DOF tracking by building in some IR leds (invisible to the human eye) etc.
I personally enjoy gamepads with speakers, there's neat things done using that (probably more so combined with haptics).
A touch pad I'm indifferent to but a touch screen would make sense to me for offloading UI etc.

MykhellMikado · Feb 5, 2020

Trup1aya said:
Sony announced last year that they were switching to azure.

No they didn't, they signed a memorandum of understanding to begin exploring how and if they could use Azure. It's basically just a public statement that they have entered the exploratory and negotiation phase they haven't even agreed to anything or committed to using Azure.

K Samedi · Feb 5, 2020

Nintendo's SCD patent makes sense when I read this article. It's not that hard for Nintendo and Sony to figure this stuff out. MS is just acting a little over confident. Nintendo and Sony will invest billions of needed but I don't think they will. They will find a smart way to create their own cloud services and I think they will treat it as a supplementary service instead of going all on on it. And that's how it's supposed to be because most people will not have ideal conditions to play cloud. You will need offline options.

TheGhost · Feb 5, 2020

MykhellMikado said:
Sony was never using Azure.

They signed a deal like a year ago
NVM read your response above.

So they are definitely not in a good position

hussien-11 · Feb 5, 2020

DoradoWinston said:
Everyone who reads the article:

"Yea he ain't wrong"

Everyone that reads the title and thinks they know exactly what he is talking about:

"That's only if you forget about PSNOW"
" Yeah right that's just so he can tell his boss they best Stadia"

He is not talking about cloud services in general, he is talking about cloud in the context of video games and reaching more consumers, this is what the whole original article (Protocol) is about, otherwise why Sony and Nintendo are mentioned in the first place? they are not software/tech companies like Microsoft and Google. the article isn't only about infrastructure but gaming in general.

Phil Harrison:

"From a broader industry perspective, we are now seeing the shift from games being device-centric, which has been the model for the last 40 years, to a model where the data center becomes the platform," Harrison said. "This shift to the cloud will be the defining change in how games are created and played."

Now is this the truth? where is this shift? it is not really happening right now but the steps to make it happen are whats done. now the infrastructure is there but does it mean it will become the definitive way to play video games in the future? not necessarily, Sony and Nintendo both can force their hardware-centric approach on the market for many years to come, and Microsoft would still compete with them in that space.

Cloud gaming at this stage is still an uncharted territory. Phil Spencer is not only talking about infrastructure, he is also talking about reaching wider range of consumers that, in his opinion, traditional consoles like Sony and Nintendo can't do:

(He added: "I don't want to be in a fight over format wars with those guys while Amazon and Google are focusing on how to get gaming to 7 billion people around the world. Ultimately, that's the goal.").

Most people who own smartphones already play video games, video games are the apps that people spend money on the most around the world.

BTW, I don't understand why my last post had an infraction, if mods here don't want to allow any meaningful discussion without jumping the gun then tell me that and I will stop posting, we are not kids here, and not everyone should agree about everything the mods think is true or necessary.

MykhellMikado · Feb 5, 2020

superbright said:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-and-sony-make-nice-announce-partnership-/1100-6466963/

already explained its a Memorandum of understanding but let's just get it straight from the horses mouth:

"Under the memorandum of understanding signed by the parties, the two companies will explore joint development of future cloud solutions in Microsoft Azure to support their respective game and content-streaming services. In addition, the two companies will explore the use of current Microsoft Azure datacenter-based solutions for Sony's game and content-streaming services. By working together, the companies aim to deliver more enhanced entertainment experiences for their worldwide customers. These efforts will also include building better development platforms for the content creator community."

https://news.microsoft.com/2019/05/16/sony-and-microsoft-to-

explore-strategic-partnership/

MykhellMikado · Feb 5, 2020

TheGhost said:
They signed a deal like a year ago
NVM read your response above.

So they are definitely not in a good position

I keep saying this, Sony already said how they were going to tackle cloud streaming back in May when they announced it. Sony already beat everyone to the most obvious solution that no one wants to talk about...

MykhellMikado · Feb 5, 2020

superbright said:
But Phil isn't talking about games, he's talking about cloud. If Microsoft did see Sony as competition then why provide azure as the backbone for Ps Now which could potentially strengthen their brand? To me that signals that it's because they see bolstering Sony's offering as an opportunity which could allow them to be a part of a whole portfolio of services. Let's say Microsoft had their own service and they were also providing the technology for PS Now and a Nintendo streaming service, Azure platforms would have a way larger catalogue of established, well known games that Google and Amazon simply couldn't compete with. It's about selling the tech not the box.

Yes this is correct, but as pointed out he was very vague in discussing the backbone vs the services. Azure, Google, and AWS can all provide the backbone which is true. But he also talks about games and game services in such a way that the other game providers directly compete in.

hussien-11 · Feb 5, 2020

MykhellMikado said:
But he also talks about games and game services in such a way that the other game providers directly compete in.

Exactly, and they can force their own approach on the market too.

TheGhost · Feb 5, 2020

MykhellMikado said:
I keep saying this, Sony already said how they were going to tackle cloud streaming back in May when they announced it. Sony already beat everyone to the most obvious solution that no one wants to talk about...

Because people played it and it's not enjoyable , psnow will have to be abandoned as a name to remove the stigma.

rokkerkory · Feb 5, 2020

Azure is quickly catching up to AWS and in some ways beating them. Good times ahead for competition.

Pyro · Feb 5, 2020

He's not wrong. Sony has made the choice to use Azure, meaning MS makes money on their own games and the competitions. And I don't think Nintendo is even interested in cloud tech.

StudioTan · Feb 5, 2020

LewieP said:
He said:

Whilst actively engaging in a format war with Sony and Nintendo.

But anyone who scrutinises this inconsistency must be a fanboy.

Another way to interpret that (and what I think he's saying) is that he doesn't want to be focused on a format war over 100 million customers with Sony and Nintendo when there is a much bigger pool of potential customers they could reach using the cloud. In that sense while Sony is still competition the real competition are Google and Amazon as those are the companies that are positioned to compete in that larger space with MS.

Look at it like this, if you were competing to get into the Olympics and were already ranked top 3 in the world but still had to compete in smaller competitions to qualify you could truthfully say your real competition were the other athletes in the top 3, even if you were still competing against inferior athletes during the years leading up to the Olympics in order to qualify to represent your country. (Just to clarify, I'm not saying Sony is inferior when it comes to gaming, they just don't have the infrastructure MS does.)

He's talking about the big picture for Microsoft, they want to expand beyond traditional console users.

It's the same way Apple used to be their direct competition until the companies started to expand into different markets. They let Apple take over the smartphone and tablet markets despite being there first. They were just too early (and then too late). They don't want that to happen with cloud gaming as well.

Valcrist · Feb 5, 2020

DoradoWinston said:
If you you ignore the shit ton of stuff they have done with controllers this gen then yes

Yeah, that would have to not be counted because if it was that post would make no sense given the existence of the Elite controller as well as the Adaptive Controller.

MykhellMikado · Feb 5, 2020

TheGhost said:
Because people played it and it's not enjoyable , psnow will have to be abandoned as a name to remove the stigma.

No, that's not even necessary. In their investors meeting Sony pointing out that most people will use their consoles close to home or even in their homes. All 100 million PS4 console out right now do this and Sony pointed that out. Play the games you already own, anywhere in the world, for free and on any device.

Guess what? You can literally do this right now.

MP! · Feb 5, 2020

I think nintendo would partner with someone ... not create their own... and they won't be in for YEARS

LewieP · Feb 5, 2020

MP! said:
I think nintendo would partner with someone ... not create their own... and they won't be in for YEARS

If anyone it's probably nvidia, who they already have an extensive mutli-year partnership with.

TheGhost · Feb 5, 2020

MykhellMikado said:
No, that's not even necessary. In their investors meeting Sony pointing out that most people will use their consoles close to home or even in their homes. All 100 million PS4 console out right now do this and Sony pointed that out. Play the games you already own, anywhere in the world, for free and on any device.

Guess what? You can literally do this right now.

Yeah.....and I've heard podcasters say it's not a great experience....right now. Compared to Xcloud

DoradoWinston · Feb 5, 2020

DarknessTear said:
Yeah, that would have to not be counted because if it was that post would make no sense given the existence of the Elite controller as well as the Adaptive Controller.

that part is weird but also the fact that its somehow seen as a bad thing consider the dualshock controller still hasnt seen a massive change its still very recogniazable as the dualshock controller but I guess it doesn't count.

Stoopkid · Feb 5, 2020

Andromeda said:
Phil said once the Pro was not competing against the XBX, it was competing against the XB1s because Pro was not a true 4K console.

Xbox’s Phil Spencer: PS4 Pro is an Xbox One S competitor, not a true 4K console

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

Having a cloud is not enough to gain marketshare. Anybody with money can rent and use some cloud service.

Amazon, Google ? If I was MS I would be more worried about Nvidia because their Xcloud service most important competitor is going to be Nvidia Geforce now, not Stadia.

As it's Spencer talking so I assume he is (should be) talking about gaming services and not datacenters for companies.

Phil's a great pr guy.

MP! · Feb 5, 2020

LewieP said:
If anyone it's probably nvidia, who they already have an extensive mutli-year partnership with.

that would be my guess too... but I'm still surprised there's no local streaming option on switch from PC yet... and we're 3 years in. I guess we'll see

Shpeshal Nick · Feb 5, 2020

Wollan said:
I think a gyro is something that's a norm on most other platforms at this point.
They could also build in support for full 6DOF tracking by building in some IR leds (invisible to the human eye) etc.
I personally enjoy gamepads with speakers, there's neat things done using that (probably more so combined with haptics).
A touch pad I'm indifferent to but a touch screen would make sense to me for offloading UI etc.

The original Xbox One pads has IR which interacted with Kinect.

elenarie · Feb 5, 2020

rokkerkory said:
Good grief, I feel whenever Spencer says anything fanboys from both sides come out of the woodwork to support or crucify him.

Let them fight. :D

MykhellMikado · Feb 5, 2020

TheGhost said:
Yeah.....and I've heard podcasters say it's not a great experience....right now. Compared to Xcloud

you should try it sometime I've been using it for the past 15 years. I can also say from experience it's 100% based on your home setup. I have near flawless experiences. I even have a PSTV I purchased which acts as a PS4 extender so I can play in my bedroom.

Deleted member 6730 · Feb 5, 2020

Google's not competition.

Sausage_Poison · Feb 5, 2020

Can Google and Amazon even hold a candle against Microsoft right now?

Chaos Legion · Feb 5, 2020

Interesting he didn't mention Apple, who is circling the gaming drain and could very well pour billions into creating a cloud infrastructure that could rival them and almost did at one point. So from that point, I do think he's just talking about cloud infrastructure.

Still, Sony probably should have gone with AWS.

Jon God · Feb 5, 2020

Arrogant MS /s

Slowsonic · Feb 5, 2020

He's 100% correct, as he is talking specifically about infrastructure for cloud gaming. PS NOW is a competitor to GamePass, but a potential customer for Azure service. Even if Sony somehow decide to build their own infrastructure for PS NOW, unless they start to sell that infrastructure as a service to others, they are not competing with MS in the iaas area like Amazon and Google.

Chaos Legion · Feb 5, 2020

Slowsonic said:
He's 100% correct, as he is talking specifically about infrastructure for cloud gaming. PS NOW is a competitor to GamePass, but a potential customer for Azure service. Even if Sony somehow decide to build their own infrastructure for PS NOW, unless they start to sell that infrastructure as a service to others, they are not competing with MS in the iaas area like Amazon and Google.

But he's not in charge of their Azure division, nor did Sony and Nintendo ever compete with Azure. I get what he's trying to say, but also see people's reaction.

Kerotan · Feb 5, 2020

DongBeetle said:
Lmao disrespectful against who? A multimillion dollar corporation?

Well in that case you can say the opposite when he's being respectful so which is it.

Andromeda said:
Phil said once the Pro was not competing against the XBX, it was competing against the XB1s because Pro was not a true 4K console.

Xbox’s Phil Spencer: PS4 Pro is an Xbox One S competitor, not a true 4K console

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

Having a cloud is not enough to gain marketshare. Anybody with money can rent and use some cloud service.

Amazon, Google ? If I was MS I would be more worried about Nvidia because their Xcloud service most important competitor is going to be Nvidia Geforce now, not Stadia.

As it's Spencer talking so I assume he is (should be) talking about gaming services and not datacenters for companies.

Very good point. Sounds like shifting goalposts to avoid bad PR.

Trup1aya · Feb 5, 2020

Chaos Legion said:
But he's not in charge of their Azure division, nor did Sony and Nintendo ever compete with Azure. I get what he's trying to say, but also see people's reaction.

He's in charge of Microsoft Gaming not just xbox. Part of his responsibility is building and selling Microsofts gaming related Azure products and services.

In fact, i doubt MS' restructures positions Spencer as a VP if Gaming wasnt expected to bolster the overall cloud business.

JJD · Feb 5, 2020

Bullshit.

Does Netflix owns any cloud infrastructure? Or Disney?

Prine · Feb 5, 2020

JJD said:
Bullshit.

Does Netflix owns any cloud infrastructure? Or Disney?

No. Most likely use AWS and MS Azure. Why did you say bullshit when you had no idea?

JJD · Feb 5, 2020

Prine said:
No. Most likely use AWS and MS Azure. Why did you say bullshit when you had no idea?

It was a rethorical question. I knew the answer.

Tapiozona · Feb 5, 2020

LewieP said:
I don't see it at all.

I also don't really believe him. Microsoft use Youtube to promote their games and sell all their games on Amazon. They only sell Minecraft on Playstation (and that was more of a legacy thing), and only sell a couple of games on Nintendo.

You've already probably been dragged through the mud but what are you even talking about. You obviously didn't even read the truncated OP

DongBeetle · Feb 5, 2020

Kerotan said:
Well in that case you can say the opposite when he's being respectful so which is it.

Very good point. Sounds like shifting goalposts to avoid bad PR.

I feel no emotional connection to any multimillion dollar company. I don't need to pick a team. I'll take these PR statements how they are and he's right about this. Neither Sony nor Nintendo will ever have the cloud infrastructure to take on Microsoft

Donfatherbrooks · Feb 6, 2020

He is completely right and it's not even just for cloud streaming which is a small piece of the pie.
It's Microsoft's aim to provide the servers for multiplayer for other publishers/developers.
It's Microsoft's aim to provide the development tools via cloud for other publishers/developers.
It's Microsoft's aim to provide the cloud analytics to look at how to engage and keep gamers etc.

It's not just the piece the consumer sees the actual battle is for the back office processes in game development that no-one sees.

Trup1aya · Feb 6, 2020

JJD said:
Bullshit.

Does Netflix owns any cloud infrastructure? Or Disney?

No they don't... they rent servers (from MS, AWS, or Google) use them to deliver content to consumers... much like Sony and Nintendo.

So like Sony and Nintendo, Disney and Netflix aren't competitors in cloud compute. AWS and Google are...

You say Bullshit, but then immediately countered your own stance.

Phil Spencer: Amazon and Google are ‘the main competitors going forward’ in relation to Sony and Nintendo’s ability to create a cloud infrastructure

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