Yep. Which also ties into Poe's arc. All these arcs converge and dovetail into one another simultaneously. It's smart writing.
People are too quick to judge The Last Jedi before Episode IX comes out
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
- Start date
For context this is how I'd rank the Star Wars films to date:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Last Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Rogue One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Return of the Jedi
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Last Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Rogue One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Return of the Jedi
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
No, I do. In one movie they've managed to make the prequel trilogy a better piece of Star Wars than the $T. The SWHS was a cheap cash in too, but it at least had more ideas going for it. With that said, both movies are very different:
1) The "cameo appearance" character actors support the main cast, rather than heaping them with scorn and stealing their spotlight (as they do in "The Last Jedi").
2) The main cast contributes directly to the success of the rebels, rather than failing utterly in every. single. thing. they. do (as they do in "The Last Jedi").
3) The central theme of Star Wars -- that a small, brave group with good intentions can stand up to a malevolent superior military force and achieve significant gains, if not outright victory -- is upheld (unlike in "The Last Jedi").
The Star Wars Holiday Special does have a few things in common with "The Last Jedi", though.
1) Long, irrelevant sequences which are tedious and do not serve to advance the plot in any way.
2) New "main" characters who are useless and/or repugnant.
Neither of which are any good, but at least one makes for a good RiffTrax experience. I haven't quite seen TLJ's to compare, but something tells me it's one of two movies that could not be saved by a Rifftrax.
It's kind of interesting to see how many were disappointed with TLJ. I left the theater like I had been punched in the gut. It was a 180 from TFA, where I left and went to buy another ticket right away.
It's just as interesting to see how many absolutely loved TLJ and proclaim it one of the best of the franchise as well. :)
It's so weird reading Star Wars threads in the EtcetEra section. I mean it is like a different universe than the community thread. The community thread is nearly endless positivity and love of Star Wars.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/star-wars-ot-new-canon-new-forum-tlj-spoilers-ok-no-e9.786/
Community threads are almost always positive. You should look outside of your bubble, Cheebo. You might be surprised.
This is how I'd rank them to date:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. A New Hope
4. The Force Awakens
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Last Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
You probably think you are being really witty calling it the "$T". Instead you sound like a internet kid from 2001 calling Microsoft "M$" lol.
It is impossible to watch the behind the scenes doc and come away with the impression Rian Johnson did this film for the $$$. Dude clearly poured out his heart into this film, whether you like it or not.
She wasn't in immediate danger, but okay. Well, you can still be a coward if all you care about is one person. I usually say it's a retread of his arc in TFA, though. I was hoping Finn would go in a different direction.
Did you miss the part where he wanted to save her because the homing beacon she has would lead her right to where the First Order was shooting at the fleeing Resistance? He wanted to save her from coming back and getting blown to pieces.
I did not miss that part. Felt like an excuse. He wanted to save her, but also wanted to get away from the fighting as well. Why leave the beacon with Poe? Why not take it with him?
I like Rogue One more every time I see it. I love how it's the only movie in all nine SW films to truly show why the Empire is so feared, as it shows what life is like under Imperial rule close up. And then the last 40 minutes is one of the absolute best battles ever put to film in a Star Wars movie. The detail and care put into crafting every part of that final battle is just so wonderful to watch, right down to the view of the surface battle from the transparent floor of the Rebel frigate. Followed of course by one of the best Darth Vader moments in the entire franchise, showcasing exactly why he is so incredibly feared by everyone, something the prequels completely failed at delivering. It may have some pacing issues in the first half and some of the characters could have been better fleshed out, but overall RO is a masterpiece IMHO.
By contrast, I loathe TLJ more with each subsequent viewing. I've seen it two times now and I have zero desire to ever watch it again, much like the prequels. I may youtube some scenes of it now and then, but the overall narrative of TLJ saddens me greatly. I'm looking more forward to Solo now than Ep 9, and a year ago I would never have believed I'd be saying that.
It is without a doubt fake, the guy made up nonsense for all the Disney Star Wars movies to date. Yet people weirdly keep falling for him. Do not waste your time.
Honestly, Rian isn't really the problem here too much. His work on the Kylo/Rey/Luke stuff is....alright? I actually don't have too much nostalgia here, but he has something of an interesting idea on what to do with them, the axing of the mysteries and the halfassing of everything else in the movie just collapses. I blame Kennedy for producing a new trilogy with no clue as to what it's gonna be about and handing it off to whoever to do whatever with. The $T was made with no ideas other than "Let's rush out a new Star Wars Trilogy and make money!" Well, they did, but they forgot to deliver any consistent semblance of quality.
Rogue One is down there with PM and AoTC for me. I really wanted to like that movie cause I loved the idea of a dark character driven dirty dozen movie ala Mass Effect 2 but god the characters were just nothing. Movie literally put me to sleep.
TLJ is probably my 3rd or 4th favorite. The Luke, Rey, and Kylo stuff was incredible. Poe is a charismatic character and Snoke was fun to watch in his gold bathrobe. Finn and his subplot is the one big sore spot along with me still not caring about the wider Rebels/Empire conflict and worldbuilding stuff. 9 needs to get the main 3 rebel characters(Rey, Poe, Finn) together for some good scenes, crazy how this hasn't happened yet.
TLJ is probably my 3rd or 4th favorite. The Luke, Rey, and Kylo stuff was incredible. Poe is a charismatic character and Snoke was fun to watch in his gold bathrobe. Finn and his subplot is the one big sore spot along with me still not caring about the wider Rebels/Empire conflict and worldbuilding stuff. 9 needs to get the main 3 rebel characters(Rey, Poe, Finn) together for some good scenes, crazy how this hasn't happened yet.
I am only ranking actual canonical Star Wars live action films. Star Wars Holiday Special isn't even a film.
I mean I didn't include The Clone Wars and Rebels either despite being canon because they are animated and pretty much every Star Wars fan likes those.
The mass upset over The Last Jedi is the saddest thing ever. It's absolutely where the story should be going and the only thing that felt like it dragged was Poe's story.
TLJ was such an utter shitshow, the likes of which I haven't seen before in this franchise
I'm not going to dismiss IX because of that, but at this point I also don't really care anymore lol
They had a lot of potentially cool stuff to work with for VIII. I didn't like TFA, but it wasn't as downright offensive as TLJ, so they could have taken the story anywhere in the sequels.
Then Johnson decided to just ruin everything for the sake of subversion. I don't think there is much left for IX honestly, because almost all of the characters have been dragged through the mud in this film.
I expect some Hunger Games nonsense, at least that's the vibe I got from what they were playing at in TLJ at the end.
I'm not going to dismiss IX because of that, but at this point I also don't really care anymore lol
They had a lot of potentially cool stuff to work with for VIII. I didn't like TFA, but it wasn't as downright offensive as TLJ, so they could have taken the story anywhere in the sequels.
Then Johnson decided to just ruin everything for the sake of subversion. I don't think there is much left for IX honestly, because almost all of the characters have been dragged through the mud in this film.
I expect some Hunger Games nonsense, at least that's the vibe I got from what they were playing at in TLJ at the end.
TLJ made me not care anymore. Finn and Poe were turned into useless morons, Finn moreso than Poe. Toying around with Rey makes me not care...she's somebody, no she's nobody, but will she be somebody? Doesn't matter now, cause the revelation will never overcome the dicking around. Backstory of Snoke? Who cares, he's dead and was entirely poorly conceived and executed anyway. The only half interesting person left is Kylo. Perhaps they should just spin his story off and forget the rest. It's more or less dead.
But here the thing, people will shit on TLJ for "throwing away plot points" when it straight up answered them simply because they didn't like the answer. You can literally point out the connective tissue and get ignored. After a while, that's not "someone having a different opinion", that's just a really stubborn fanboy.
You do know A New Hope was written as a standalone film, right? ESB was handed off to whoever to do whatever with.
People like to make up their own narrative on how these were made.
"Single vision".
Fuck outta here with that.
Disney got Star Wars locked up harder than any single of their other franchises, to the point where people actually working on the movie don't see the completed movie until the release. I'd be very, very surprised if anything legit leaks.
They didn't know. Also that leak sort of confirms that incest could be a Skywalker family tradition.People like to make up their own narrative on how these were made.
"Single vision".
Fuck outta here with that.
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Most of us know better than to venture there lol :)
This isn't true XD
People like to make up their own narrative on how these were made.
"Single vision".
Fuck outta here with that.
A singular vision is not 'they had everything planned out ahead of time'.
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would like to know this as well. when he first tries to escape, he makes a point of mentioning wanting to get the beacon away from there.
im guessing since they had a plan allowing the fleet to escape, he felt comfortable leaving it behind in case something went wrong at the casino.
Could've allowed for some drama between him and Rey if she came back while Finn was still on Canto Bight.
They didn't even speak to each other until the end, right?
It's the best Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back. It really doesn't need anything to make it better. Except perhaps explain what that Dark Side Cave is exactly. That was very WTF huh?
His plan was to briefly go to a Casino Planet and then go onto the First Order ship. Unless he planned on escaping during the mission, it was safer with Poe.
Like?
Your suggestion undercuts half of the movie's plot.
So you better have something there.
NOBODY expected ANH to be the smash hit it was (except maybe Alec Guiness). Hence why the story is self contained, sequels were not a guarantee. That is NOT the case with the sequel trilogy so really, they should've planned it out better knowing they had three films to work with from the start.
Impressive. Everything you said in that sentence......
..was right! I 100% agree.
I really hope the payoff of XIII is to watch all these characters doing a bunch of stuff together.
i don't remember unfortunately.
he would have had plenty of opportunity to stash the beacon well out of harms way on canto bight. it would have meant rey wouldn't know where the resistance was, but i'm thinking finn would prioritize her safety above all else.
What about that sounds like a good idea to you?
And Finn and Rey didn't speak, they just had a the hug. They both referred to each other throughout the movie, but no lines.
the "out of harms way" part.
cheers!
It's actually pretty comparable to the Justice League thread in term of how many people have already made up their mind and refuse to change.
She could've told Finn about her plan to meet with Kylo. Finn is all about protecting her and would tell her to get with the fleet and help them with the Millennium Falcon, but she's adamant about meeting Kylo again. Finn feels hurt because she just came back and now she wants to go meet the guy who sliced his back and killed Han on the off chance that she might change him. Rey will throw the fact that Finn managed to change at Finn, so why couldn't Kylo. Boom. Drama.
Yeah, they referred to each other, but didn't actually interact with each other until the end. I wanted them to meet a lot sooner than that.
So all that so she could have the EXACT same conversation she had with Luke.
Fantastic.
Them being far apart for the whole movie, made their reunion mean more. The moment of the Resistence really seeing Rey and what she could do for the first time, I wouldn't trade that for the world. Would I have liked some dialogue, afterward sure, but I don't think the lack of hurt the movie.
Yes, the same, exact conversation she had with Luke where Luke feels hurt that she just came back to him and now wants to meet the guy who sliced his back.
Luke wasted my time and I need to go help the resistance by turning Kylo.
Let me stop on the rebel ship to tell Finn I'm going to do something I know he won't like, assuming he's even awake.
Say what you will about the quality of TLJ, but it grossing less than TFA almost certainly had nothing to do with the quality or reception of the film
In this situation, Finn would be on Canto Bight having taken the beacon with him. That's what I assumed we were talking about, that he would take the beacon with him which would allow for more drama between them than what we got in the film.