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PC Gaming Era | April 2019 - Goodbye, Uzzy is your new King

Tombstone for Orange should say:

  • Windows ME is a good operating system

    Votes: 42 16.4%

  • UN Ambassador for PC Gaming

    Votes: 34 13.3%

  • Report this Orange man

    Votes: 10 3.9%

  • Still thinks PC Gaming is dead

    Votes: 22 8.6%

  • ༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ (I have no idea if this one is allowed)

    Votes: 57 22.3%

  • nice thread btw :)

    Votes: 91 35.5%
  • Total voters
    256
  • Poll closed .
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Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Wok

Thanks for that. It did wonders.

I noticed a fun fact with the numbers though. Seems Valve puts F2P game reviews under "other", so games like DOTA2 give crazy numbers (0.46% valve cut), lol. Guess I need to filter those ones out, but that's fine. It never made any sense to add them anyway being F2P and all.
 
.exe

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,270
(User) reviews, as an aggregate, aren't a measure of a game's quality; they're a measure of a game's reception and public perception, Rami.
 
alr1ght

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,060
PhaZZe said:
Mine now say Borderlands GOTY, no changes in options (FOV) or ingame textures
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Mine is a separate entry
IWCwjXX.png


Now it's out of order too.
 
Hektor

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
spineduke said:
wtf Rami

Now he's truly gone into the deep end

full-on consumer anti-advocate
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Now?

He has always been on the consumers-should-stfu-and-buy-our-games-train.

It was literally him i was thinking of when i posted this a few hours ago:

Hektor said:
Mike Rose is a cool dude. His input is usually fairly valuable because he tends to talk about how the game industry is raher than how it should be in a perfect gamedev utopia like some others.
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In Ramis opinion, gamedevelopers are never, ever wrong on anything and consumers are an entitled plight they have to deal with.

I got zero respect for this bitter dude.
 
spineduke

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,759
eonden said:
Rami was always for putting the developer over the consumer.
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i feel his rhetoric is becoming more and more extreme and emboldened in recent months

his twitter persona is coming off as the "angry developer/gamer" sterotype.

and to further add

his success with Nuclear Throne owes hugely to the whole user review metric that he so seemingly hates
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,094
spineduke said:
i feel his rhetoric is becoming more and more extreme and emboldened in recent months

his twitter persona is coming off as the "angry developer/gamer" sterotype.
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Rami was a guy who had to be told by teachers in South Africa that it might not be a good idea to tell the students to leave school and pursue their dreams because he didnt realize the issues that could cause (because there not being that many social safety nets there as in his home country).

Rami is a great spokemans for indies, but he clearly suffers from focusing too much on the indie side without considering the customer side.

Edit: Just in case I put the source. I wanna point out that he did realize his mistake after it was pointed out.
 
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spineduke

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,759
eonden said:
Rami was a guy who had to be told by teachers in South Africa that it might not be a good idea to tell the students to leave school and pursue their dreams because he didnt realize the issues that could cause (because there not being that many social safety nets there as in his home country).

Rami is a great spokemans for indies, but he clearly suffers from focusing too much on the indie side without considering the customer side.
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The weird thing is he travels around a lot, so I'm not sure why his worldview is lacking - he's very privileged yet seems unable to understand how and why the rest of the world struggles. Generally, he seems really unhappy. Maybe I'm wrong, but all the telltale signs are there.
 
Hektor

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
eonden said:
Rami was a guy who had to be told by teachers in South Africa that it might not be a good idea to tell the students to leave school and pursue their dreams because he didnt realize the issues that could cause (because there not being that many social safety nets there as in his home country).

Rami is a great spokemans for indies, but he clearly suffers from focusing too much on the indie side without considering the customer side.
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Wait what.

That's not just a bad idea in south africa, that's a terrible idea everywhere, safety nets or not.
 
ArjanN

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,122
Rami's POV makes more sense when it's about some indie dev eating ramen for 5 years in his mom's garage betting everything on their dream game. it kinda falls apart when it's about Gearbox or Epic.
 
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,641
But when you pull something like this in Sekiro you really feel good. Too bad that i missed jump attack at the end for pure perfection :(


 

KoolAid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,681
I am curious about how the hell the reviews of the games Epic has moneyhatted will look like when they come out on Steam. Are they gonna be bombed on the premise of "fuck you, you were in the epic store although now you're not"?
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,094
Rosenkrantz said:
This is something I don't understand. If he hates customers then for whom he makes video games?
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He doesnt hate consumers. He just thinks that developers (and in this case, indies) have a tough time and deserve more. He just puts all the focus on them instead of realizing that it is a more complex ecosystem... where the customer is the one making it sustainable.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Maybe of interest to some:

Overestimating the numbers by not taking into account the top games on Steam only take 20% now, and instead assuming everyone has the old 30% Valve cut. By taking the top 100 games on Steam, filtering out the F2P games, and using reviews to approximate Steam copies vs external keys. I calculate Valve's actual average cut to be:

19.65%

The reality is that this is likely lower. There are a lot of problems with the model, but that should be a decent upper bound.
 
Shelbyville Milhouse

Shelbyville Milhouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,384
Chet and Rami are both good people.
Rami talking more for developers than for customers isn't a bad thing, it's just a different view point, even if I disagree with him.
 
Dan L

Dan L

Tried to PM someone for a tag
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,177
Regina, Saskatchewan
Though I don't agree at all with Rami's opinions as of late.
I honestly don't think he is coming from a malicious place, his view is just different and very pro indie dev over all else. he is missing the bigger picture for sure.
 
spineduke

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,759
eonden said:
He doesnt hate consumers. He just thinks that developers (and in this case, indies) have a tough time and deserve more. He just puts all the focus on them instead of realizing that it is a more complex ecosystem... where the customer is the one making it sustainable.
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at the same time, he understands the value of engaging and building community

how he gets it so right and wrong at the same time just boggles me
 
zulux21

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,386
Joshii said:
What's the difference between Borderlands GOTY and Borderlands GOTY Enhanced?
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updated visuals up to 4k
mini map
auto health/ammo pick up
6 new legendaries
a bit more customization options
harder final boss.
inventory management streamlined.

and perhaps other stuff but that is the stuff I recall them confirming.
 
InquisitorAles

InquisitorAles

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,201
Belarus
Who cares about Epic and their exclusives when Steam has a real GOTY?
240A89B3DDDB42A26FA43FB2D05C2C6E32E57E4C

I'm only half-joking
It's DEAD OR ALIVE Xtreme Venus Vacation you dirty weeb
 
Hektor

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
Nappael said:
Maybe of interest to some:

Overestimating the numbers by not taking into account the top games on Steam only take 20% now, and instead assuming everyone has the old 30% Valve cut. By taking the top 100 games on Steam, filtering out the F2P games, and using reviews to approximate Steam copies vs external keys. I calculate Valve's actual average cut to be:

19.65%

The reality is that this is likely lower. There are a lot of problems with the model, but that should be a decent upper bound.
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There's a bit of an issue with that model, you can't really approximate the split between internal and external sales via reviews because there is no reason to believe that both customers are equally likely to leave reviews.

It stands to reason that people who buy their keys on other sites are more aware of the pc gaming ecosystem and thus also more likely to use steams review feature, meaning the scale of people buying keys to leaving reviews is smaller than the scale of people buying directly and leaving reviews.

Or in other words, 2 people buying keys translate into 1 steamreview, but each review made with an in-steam copy might have 4 or more sales behind it.*

*Numbers out of my ass of course, just an example.
 
Wok

Wok

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,258
France
InquisitorAles said:
Who cares about Epic and their exclusives when Steam has a real GOTY?
240A89B3DDDB42A26FA43FB2D05C2C6E32E57E4C
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How much does that skin cost?

Hektor said:
It stands to reason that people who buy their keys on other sides are more aware of the pc gaming ecosystem and thus also more likely to use steams review feature, meaning the scale of people buying keys to leaving reviews is smaller than the scale of people buying directly and leaving reviews.
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You could also argue the opposite: people who buy directly from Steam are more aware of the Steam gaming platform and thus also more likely to use Steam features, including writing a review on Steam.

Moreover, the reviews written by people who buy from other stores are not taken into account in the Steam score, so it might not be worth it for them to spend time writing a review. So they are less likely to write a review.
 
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Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Hektor said:
There's a bit of an issue with that model, you can't really approximate the split between internal and external sales via reviews because there is no reason to believe that both customers are equally likely to leave reviews.

It stands to reason that people who buy their keys on other sites are more aware of the pc gaming ecosystem and thus also more likely to use steams review feature, meaning the scale of people buying keys to leaving reviews is smaller than the scale of people buying directly and leaving reviews.

Or in other words, 2 people buying keys translate into 1 steamreview, but each review made with an in-steam copy might have 4 or more sales behind it.*

*Numbers out of my ass of course, just an example.
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That would also be a possible cause of the numbers being overestimated, but since I cannot quantify that in any way, I'm going to just list that as assumption of the model.
 
Rosenkrantz

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,943
eonden said:
He doesnt hate consumers. He just thinks that developers (and in this case, indies) have a tough time and deserve more. He just puts all the focus on them instead of realizing that it is a more complex ecosystem... where the customer is the one making it sustainable.
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Maybe hate is the wrong word here, but when someone constantly neglects consumer needs and think that important features like reviews or forums shouldn't exist they're at the very least anti-consumer, even if they don't realize it themselves. It would be nice if Rami tried to chat with folks an tried to understand our issues with EGS and moneyhats.
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,094
Rosenkrantz said:
Maybe hate is the wrong word here, but when someone constantly neglects consumer needs and think that important features like reviews or forums shouldn't exist they're at the very least anti-consumer, even if they don't understand it themselves. It would be nice if Rami tried to chat with folks an tried to understand our issues with EGS and moneyhats.
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True, a problem we also see a lot in twitter with indies (and some reporters too! as they tend to be closer with devs than with the customer base nowadat) is that they are in another social group bubble than we are, with completely different issues and viewpoints, and sadly they hardly intersect nicely. As the tweet from the other guy says, there is nowadays an even worse interaction between developers and customers than years ago (and that is now with the rise of GAAS where customer interaction should be even more valuable!), so the rift of understanding is large.

For developers, reviews from customers are just hits (as the focus is always in the negative aspects) for something they have worked hard on. For customer, reviews is a way of expressing your opinion on the game.
 
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