Patreon panhandling, entitlement etc

AussieCedric · May 1, 2018

Does anyone else find it weird when content creators are making impassioned pleas for donations, despite earning way above average working wages on Patreon already? Or when you do pledge to someone and they don't even thank you? How about when they keep directing you to their discord server which they're never active in? Charging per month and not releasing anything...?

Call me cynical I guess, but I've been encountering these things quite a lot lately. I really like he concept of supporting creative endeavours through small regular donations however it feels like a lot of creators these days take support from strangers for granted and come off rather entitled

Curious to see what everyone thinks about the platform and what kind of engagement they've come to expect, or if they feel some creators tend to overreach?

JCHandsom · May 1, 2018

AussieCedric said:
Does anyone else find it weird when content creators are making impassioned pleas for donations, despite earning way above average working wages on Patreon already? Or when you do pledge to someone and they don't even thank you? How about when they keep directing you to their discord server which they're never active in? Charging per month and not releasing anything...?

Call me cynical I guess, but I've been encountering these things quite a lot lately. I really like he concept of supporting creative endeavours through small regular donations however it feels like a lot of creators these days take support from strangers for granted and come off rather entitled

That's the only one that I have issues with, otherwise it's as simple as "Pay me money and I'll entertain you"

bremon · May 1, 2018

This seems to be hugely popular with podcasts that are already full of advertisements.

Seesaw15 · May 1, 2018

AussieCedric said:
Or when you do pledge to someone and they don't even thank you?

Sounding like a real Peggy Olson OP.

Fat4all · May 1, 2018

with the people i watch/listen to usually the most i hear about their patreon is "hey, if you like my stuff and want to contribute consider donating to my patreon. you get bonus whatssits and early thingys"

doesnt really bother me much

Deleted member 25712 · May 1, 2018

I don't have a problem paying for a product I like and not paying for a product I don't. And I don't think it's entitlement to ask for compensation for work.

tino · May 1, 2018

Youtube actually are fucking the content creators over.

I only patreon one young kid who make model planes, but if my favorites like RLM say they need money to continue, I would patreon them.

Again its entirely voluntary based, this is how the artists made their living from classical greek to renaissance, depends on patronages of small group of people.

Maximo · May 1, 2018

Fat4all said:
with the people i watch/listen to usually the most i hear about their patreon is "hey, if you like my stuff and want to contribute consider donating to my patreon. you get bonus whatssits and early thingys"

doesnt really bother me much

Same here, don't have an issue with them having ads either most Patreons are ad free if you pledge, if not my App has a 30 second skip button. Clicking that a few times skips them so it's not a huge deal.

Rizific · May 1, 2018

Don't mess with crowd funding. Easy.

tsampikos · May 1, 2018

I think you're judging too large a group by a select minority and that you seem bitter about the working wage thing despite that not having anything to do with how a page is run.

Smh at calling it panhandling.

I wanna see some examples of people taking their audience for granted and still getting paid for it. I run a patreon page and that notion seems ridiculous.

moblin · May 1, 2018

It's easy to see why it's used like this; it's basically a glorified tip jar except the patrons can broadcast to everyone else how good of a community member they are. The creator basically gets free money in exchange for valueless in-group perks that matter a great deal to some. It's also a way to monetize when media networks are gradually becoming more wary of purely algorithmic systems.

The begging could be annoying but I honestly don't really have an issue with it generally. Maybe I don't listen to enough of that kind of media, but isn't it usually at the beginning or end of content and only lasts a few seconds?

Although even just brief mentions can set people off. People go apeshit when Wikipedia asks for a few bucks every few months.

Deleted member 33887 · May 1, 2018

I mean, they have to pay taxes, likely their own health insurance, their work equipment, etc. I don't really see the point in comparing salaries- if they are good at what they do and people agree (by supporting them), then who are you to judge? If they get too aggressive about it people will likely stop supporting them.

I haven't ever actually seen a case of a creator not making anything. And thanking is nice, but at some point it is unwieldy.

0451 · May 1, 2018

I mostly don't mind it. I've only recently noticed that there are accounts on Twitter and YouTube that ask for money/compensation but don't produce original content and just retweet other people or benefit from other people's content and that rubs me the wrong way. Otherwise, I'm okay with someone wanting compensation for their work.

Eidan · May 1, 2018

If donations help them make a living so they can create content, who am I to say what the limit of the donations they receive should be?

corasaur · May 1, 2018

Patreon income isnt their take-home pay. Its their business revenue.

Also, trying to find ways to fund a creative business in an internet era where people want content to not have upfront cost isnt panhandling.

Now, its totally possible to have shitty patreon ads. Just saying they arent automatically terrible if theyre just going "please consider supporting"

AussieCedric · May 1, 2018

tsampikos said:
I think you're judging too large a group by a select minority and that you seem bitter about the working wage thing despite that not having anything to do with how a page is run.

I'm not bitter about anything? I pledge to lots of people on patreon, I've just noticed lately a few seem to be pretty lame and I'm wondering how others feel about it

Hypron · May 1, 2018

I will be supporting this one dude (Dogen) for the next couple of months because he offers very useful lessons about Japanese pronunciation/intonation to his patrons. After I've gone through all the content I probably won't continue doing so though, because $10/month is a bit too steep over the long term. It's good value if you just subscribe for a couple of months though.

crimsonECHIDNA · May 1, 2018

Whole bunch of sour grapes there. Not sure which content creators you're referring to, but as long as they're producing the content their patrons pledged for, I see so no harm.

Opto · May 1, 2018

Donations are fickle. Things are in flux and who knows when patreon decides to make another bad decision? I don't need a thank you, I'm getting their product way below market value and they offer most or all of their content for free. If they're not making stuff for months with no reasoning behind it, I get being annoyed by that, but then stop your pledge.

AussieCedric · May 1, 2018

corasaur said:
Also, trying to find ways to fund a creative business in an internet era where people want content to not have upfront cost isnt panhandling.

I know, like I said I already pledge to about a dozen creators and support the platform wholeheartedly

Pikelet · May 1, 2018

Unless you were promised something that wasn't delivered, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on in most of these cases.

Were you promised more than one piece of content per month?
Were you promised that there'd be no more ads in your podcast feed if you sent money via Patreon?
Were you promised a personalized thank you note?
Were you promised that they'd remain active in a Discord server?

If the answer to the above questions are all no, and you remain upset at the content creator anyway, then the person who has issues with entitlement is probably you.

wenis · May 1, 2018

if whoever is running a patreon stops giving me content or the content becomes something i just dont want anymore, i just stop giving them money. I've got no problem with the patreon method. they're still working for that money at the end of the month and I'm still getting product. it's not panhandling in the slightest.

i much prefer this to kickstarter. the product is there, i can drop in and out depending on my own financial situation. patreon is actually pretty great.

SugarNoodles · May 1, 2018

My initial thought is that their content might involve collaborating with and paying other people.

AussieCedric · May 1, 2018

crimsonECHIDNA said:
Whole bunch of sour grapes there. Not sure which content creators you're referring to, but as long as they're producing the content their patrons pledged for, I see so no harm.

I'm not interested in a witch hunt, naming names etc

I'm just talking about the general attitude people have towards it and how it's used

Meg Cherry · May 1, 2018

Honestly, I don't really care how frequently I get thanked for pledging. I like paying money to support people whose work I enjoy. Bonus episodes, early access, or Discord access are all totally supplimentary.

That said, it can get overwhelming fast. Especially with people who try to make the leap into being full-time content creators when they don't have the audience to make a sustainable living. I've had to step away from a number of creators, because it felt like they were literally begging for their lives every time they posted a Patreon/Kofi/Cash/PayPal link.

Ometeotl · May 1, 2018

Patreon is fine as long as the creators are keeping to their promises and content releases. My issue is with that Ko-fi site, which is basically just "I would like you to give me money please".

corasaur · May 1, 2018

AussieCedric said:
I know, like I said I already pledge to about a dozen creators and support the platform wholeheartedly

Yeah sorry, was slow adding the "having shitty ads is totally possible" bit. I should've also said "all my podcasts have been fine about it so far."

BringBackSonics · May 1, 2018

OP, did you really need a thank you for your 3$ a month patronage?

melikefishnchips · May 1, 2018

The rise of patreon admist the YouTube adpocalypse always seems weird to me given that the service model for YouTube was (and technically still is) completely free for both creators and viewers. while I think creators should be compensated, it feels weird for creators to basically be like "if you don't support me than this content goes away"

Deleted member 17092 · May 1, 2018

I don't watch any vloggers/streamers of any kind on any platform. Pretty sure I'm not really missing anything. Just don't watch any of that stuff OP, problem solved.

Arrrammis · May 1, 2018

All of the people I support on Pateon make good, consistent content, and I want them too keep making that good content, so I support them. The Patreon bonuses, like tabs for guitar music, polls on what they should look at next, early access to content, etc. is just icing on the cake. If someone is acting stuck up and taking money without releasing good content, then don't support them. Simple as that.

AlexBasch · May 1, 2018

I don't know why but I have been following the WingsOfRedemption shenanigans.

The way he delivers his "donate or get the fuck out" is glorious.

Famassu · May 1, 2018

Do these Patreons you complain about only pay for a single person? Or do they pay for a crew of some sorts? Are these videos "only" about sitting in front of a camera and talking shit with no huge expenses other than maybe the price of movie tickets or do they travel, have to do extensive research, need to get materials, pay for some VFX/design/cool video editing stuff and/or have to pay other expenses that you might not be thinking about? What kind of content do they create: short effortless videos or some high quality 30-60+ minute in-depth exposes/video essays that aren't done in a week or even a month? Where do they live?

Keyser S · May 1, 2018

The one Pateron I pledge to right now is a Youtube Lets Player, and she regularly posts a lot of content (in the last seven days it was over 11 hours of well edited entertaining video). The channel only gets around 1k to 2k views per video, which is terrible ad money, so I am happy to support this person in some small way.

AussieCedric · May 1, 2018

BringBackSonics said:
OP, did you really need a thank you for your 3$ a month patronage?

Would be nice lol

No I'm just talking about the general attitude people have towards patreon and engagement between the creator and their supporters

SteveWinwood · May 1, 2018

AussieCedric said:
despite earning way above average working wages on Patreon already

I mean they probably spend that money on like business expenses in a lot of cases. It's not just straight income so they don't have to work.

And even if it was that's what people decided it was worth!

smurfx · May 1, 2018

for the majority of them this will likely not be a lifetime career so why not get what you can. those people paying are obviously enjoying their channel or else they wouldn't be paying.

Zekes · May 1, 2018

I feel more weirdly about people having patreon links when they have 3 videos with 30 - 48 views on them

Shoes · May 1, 2018

AussieCedric said:
Does anyone else find it weird when content creators are making impassioned pleas for donations, despite earning way above average working wages on Patreon already? Or when you do pledge to someone and they don't even thank you? How about when they keep directing you to their discord server which they're never active in? Charging per month and not releasing anything...?

Call me cynical I guess, but I've been encountering these things quite a lot lately. I really like he concept of supporting creative endeavours through small regular donations however it feels like a lot of creators these days take support from strangers for granted and come off rather entitled

Is the bolded really an issue, though? I mean, not releasing content for a month after accepting monthly donations definitely is an issue, but it comes with the territory of donations. It seems a bit petty to be upset by them not personally thanking you for tossing them $5 or something a month and they otherwise deliver on the content you expect.

ThereAreFourNaan · May 1, 2018

I'm not going to get grumpy if someone's earning like 150k per year for producing content I like when there's a legion of scumbags out there earning tens of millions per annum and sucking all of the wealth out of the working classes. The number of people earning serious money is not that high, most content producers in general are earning very little for it.

AussieCedric · May 2, 2018

Shoes said:
Is the bolded really an issue, though? I mean, not releasing content for a month after accepting monthly donations definitely is an issue, but it comes with the territory of donations. It seems a bit petty to be upset by them not personally thanking you for tossing them $5 or something a month and they otherwise deliver on the content you expect.

My feelings aren't the point though, starting a thread was to see how others viewed it

I mean I don't personally have any questions for X content creator and I'm not all that interested in using Y's Discord server. I still noticed he hasn't answered any questions from any of his patrons and isn't active at all in the discord. So my question is just how normal is that and is it acceptable to most people? Does everything need to be explicity stated and paid for or is there a small of engagment you would expect?

Again it's not about me dude... those are just random examples... you can call me petty and upset if you want but that's not really what I'm going for here lol

Deleted member 6582 · May 2, 2018

Most creators don't get paid at all, only a very, very small amount make it big. We created a culture where people are too afraid to ask what things are worth and have to beg for it. It's sad. Pay-what-you-want isn't a revolutionary pro-consumer pricing model, it's bullshit that benefits platform holders that get a cut of your hard work whether or not you can afford eat.

ZeroX · May 2, 2018

AussieCedric said:
Does anyone else find it weird when content creators are making impassioned pleas for donations, despite earning way above average working wages on Patreon already? Or when you do pledge to someone and they don't even thank you? How about when they keep directing you to their discord server which they're never active in? Charging per month and not releasing anything...?

The cost of running a business is higher than paying someone. Very few people are actually rich solely from Patreon. The content they give you from Patreon is the thank you, they don't need to single you out for thanks. I've never heard anything about Discord. Charging per month and not releasing anything is fine if that's what they said they'd do.

If you're encountering people engaged in practices you don't like on Patreon, don't subscribe. I haven't noticed it being that much of a problem, and if it were, their money would dry up. It's fine.

I pay my $5 to Cum Town each month as a Cum Boy and haven't been disappointed in my weekly bonus Cum (which they missed once or twice due to extraneous circumstances which is fine). They don't need to thank me.

AussieCedric · May 2, 2018

ZeroX said:
If you're encountering people engaged in practices you don't like on Patreon, don't subscribe

Thanks for the groundbreaking advice, this has been a really rewarding discussion about patreon and community engagement

Wulfric · May 2, 2018

AussieCedric said:
Does anyone else find it weird when content creators are making impassioned pleas for donations, despite earning way above average working wages on Patreon already? Or when you do pledge to someone and they don't even thank you? How about when they keep directing you to their discord server which they're never active in? Charging per month and not releasing anything...?

Call me cynical I guess, but I've been encountering these things quite a lot lately. I really like the concept of supporting creative endeavours through small regular donations however it feels like a lot of creators these days take support from strangers for granted and come off rather entitled

What would you considers to be above working wages? Because I can assure you most creators aren't exactly raking it in. Panhandling is not the correct word to use at all, considering the amount of work that goes into creating Patreon exclusives and, I don't know, the fact that you're getting content in return.

Any creator worth their salt diversifies their total income among Patreon, merch, Gumroad, conventions, or video content.

Freelancers (at least in the US) pay higher taxes through the year and need to seek out their own healthcare plan if their partner doesn't work.

ZeroX · May 2, 2018

AussieCedric said:
Thanks for the groundbreaking advice, this has been a really rewarding discussion about patreon and community engagement

No, it's the answer to your question. If people didn't like what people were doing they wouldn't continue giving them money. If people felt they were too entitled the cash would dry up.

WarpSpeedMolasses · May 2, 2018

With the videos and podcasts I listen to, it's been completely optional. Don't really see the harm in asking.

Heart_Attack · May 2, 2018

I have no problem with them. YouTube has been fucking it up for content creators that they had to start a Patreon account.

Shoes · May 2, 2018

AussieCedric said:
My feelings aren't the point though, starting a thread was to see how others viewed it

I mean I don't personally have any questions for X content creator and I'm not all that interested in using Y's Discord server. I still noticed he hasn't answered any questions from any of his patrons and isn't active at all in the discord. So my question is just how normal is that and is it acceptable to most people? Does everything need to be explicity stated and paid for or is there a small of engagment you would expect?

Again it's not about me dude... those are just random examples... you can call me petty and upset if you want but that's not really what I'm going for here lol

I didn't mean it as name-calling or a personal attack, I was trying to see where getting a thank you actually stacks up versus some of the other, seemingly more valuable use of a patron's donation. It's just kind of hard to use a blanket "acceptable" vs "unacceptable" depending on the size of the content creator's community and type of content. I would think answering patron's questions would remain high priority for the longest, while stuff like becoming less active in the discord as the community grows may just happen over time. I think unless something is explicitly stated as a benefit of donating, I wouldn't expect a lot beyond it. It's just the nature of the platform, and those that do go above and beyond with engaging with the community more than they specifically state will end up standing out as better creators and more worthy of a donation.

nemoral · May 2, 2018

It seems obvious to me that if you don't like how a creator responds to you, you should just not fund them. I haven't seen a lot of the behavior you're talking about, though.

Patreon panhandling, entitlement etc

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot

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