Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous |OT| Crusader Kings 3.5

[4KLobster]

Scrolls don't take ingredients? I've increased my knowledge.

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They do, but different ones (e.g. no need of diamond powder to scribe stone skin).

General impressions now that I have proceeded through... mid-chapter 2?

Crusade, like it but not well explained at all for people not familiar with HoMM / Kings Bounty-likes.
Plus, should have adopted a more HoMM like system since some HP-shaving fights can take foreeeever.
Finally, for now at least, Mage generals seem vastly superior to the others.

Chapter 2 dungeons, Leper smile: you loved swarms in Kingmaker? Well... (Cave boss annihilated me on first try but the reverse happened on the second, RNG Gods)
The boss of Hidden hideout, OMG much harder, save and reload several times but still managed with buffs x buffs (daring is just right for me, TB might work for Core?).

Still find the characters a little meh (Daeran can be entertaining and the multiple WTF from Camelia feel like: throw your amulet away already :).

 

[Deleted member 20831]

The Inventory Search Bar author now merged all of his three features into a single mod called Enhanced Inventory.
Latest version now includes Spellbook search.

 

[Efreeti]

I made it to Blackwater, the posters above weren't exaggerating lol. I'm punching through but every fight is tough, still some healing and buff spells remaining but they're going quickly. Luckily I found two shock longswords +1, which is very convenient.

If you aren't doing so yet, scribe scrolls. Some extra attack spells are just the trick for dungeons like this.

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FInished Blackwater, but those were some tough fights, even on easy settings and fully buffed. Last boss fight half the party died. Breath of life spell getting some use.

Spoiler

I probably should have moved sooner to take out the lightning rods / tesla coils, but I was dumb and it took me a while to get the mechanics of the fight.

 

[Mudcrab]

I don't know why I do it to myself. My second character is at chapter 3 and for some mystical reason I decided to read up on the swarm path.

So here I am watching the opening to the game for a third time becacue I want to RP as the goddamn Hivemind from 40k.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

I really despise all of the stat damage, which also may or may no be totally broken? It says Lesser Restoration gets rid of it, so why isn't Lesser Restoration getting rid of it? Nothing in the combat log, either. I just cast a spell slot, and watch that spell slot get wasted without any indication that it did anything at all.

 

[Buckle]

I am going to lose my goddamn mind if they don't give us a way to delete army units.

Theres so much clutter on my screen, its driving me crazy. Especially since I'm a lich and they spawn new undead units constantly.

 

[Efreeti]

I really despise all of the stat damage, which also may or may no be totally broken? It says Lesser Restoration gets rid of it, so why isn't Lesser Restoration getting rid of it? Nothing in the combat log, either. I just cast a spell slot, and watch that spell slot get wasted without any indication that it did anything at all.

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The description on the wiki (not in-game atm) says "cures 1d4 points of temporary ability damage to one of the subject's ability scores. It does not restore permanent ability drain.", that might be it? I agree the stat damage is super frustrating, as is the level drain. At least death ward prevents level drain, when you have enough spell slots or scrolls.

 

[Vaporak]

I really despise all of the stat damage, which also may or may no be totally broken? It says Lesser Restoration gets rid of it, so why isn't Lesser Restoration getting rid of it? Nothing in the combat log, either. I just cast a spell slot, and watch that spell slot get wasted without any indication that it did anything at all.

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Ability Drain and Ability Damage are two separate things. Ability drain actually lows your ability score while ability damage lowers the statistics derived from your ability scores (though I think Owlcat implemented it as just ability drain that can't kill you). Lesser Restoration heals ability damage but not ability drain, for that you need Restoration.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

Ability Drain and Ability Damage are two separate things. Ability drain actually lows your ability score while ability damage lowers the statistics derived from your ability scores (though I think Owlcat implemented it as just ability drain that can't kill you). Lesser Restoration heals ability damage but not ability drain, for that you need Restoration.

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The tool tip explicitly says "can be healed with Lesser Restoration" or whatever, but only sometimes it goes away with LR. It is like there are two separate effects using the same tooltip description.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

While I'm still loving a lot about this game, I think once again I have some serious issues with how Owlcat does encounter design that I had in Kingmaker. Drezen was just a fatiguing experience and went on way too long. Some of the encounters were silly... the ghoul pit was an awful grindy slog and the Chorussina fight had me scratching my head at how Owlcat expected a party to reasonably take it (although I got lucky and landed a slumber hex on her which allowed me to just coup de grace her).

While I do appreciate the option for Turn Based mode, and am playing mostly in that mode, it extremely sucks when a scripted fight repositions your party in the middle of it and then the enemy goes first and casually one shots your MC and forces you to reload the whole thing.

 

[OrangePulp]

I don't know why I do it to myself. My second character is at chapter 3 and for some mystical reason I decided to read up on the swarm path.

So here I am watching the opening to the game for a third time becacue I want to RP as the goddamn Hivemind from 40k.

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An important heads up for everyone focusing on a gold dragon, legend, or swarm build: the late-game mythic paths are... pretty damn late. You'll be spending the majority of the game as one of the six core paths. As an example, I went back and looked at my saves. I polished off act 4 after 90 hours, and you can't actually start a late-game path until act 5. And I finished the game at 104 hours, doing I think most of the stuff I had left in act 5 first (although I didn't actually finish the puzzle dungeon, I got bored of it). And some of that last 14 hours is crusade stuff, although I didn't go as far as to get all the crusade scores at max. But the point is, I don't think those paths should be a focus of your build; rather, just kind of a fun bonus or exclamation point on your playthrough. If you spend the whole game waiting for when you get to turn into a gold dragon, or a swarm that eats everything or whatever... I feel like that would be kind of a waste.

 

[Gyoru]

You won't get Mythic Ranks 6-10 until late Act 4 and beyond. MR10 is acquired right before the end of the game. It's an issue with min/max builds that don't recognize the progression required to get to that point in the game.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Schreckstoff]

I got an idea for a min max build but it relies on ascendant bloodline working with serpentine bloodline which it doesn't right now.

Stacking AC bonuses and dodge is a bad idea when you can just get flanked and lose it all. And Serpentine Body works better than improved uncanny dodge.

 

[Vaporak]

the Chorussina fight had me scratching my head at how Owlcat expected a party to reasonably take it (although I got lucky and landed a slumber hex on her which allowed me to just coup de grace her).

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They don't expect everyone to because it's an optional encounter. But it sounds like you did just fine.

 

[Ashodin]

First day back from vacation, I'm in the Ivory Sanctum. Get fucked Jerribeth!

 

[AWizardDidIt]

They don't expect everyone to because it's an optional encounter. But it sounds like you did just fine.

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A fight being optional is not really an argument in its favor as to whether it's well designed or not.

 

[Schreckstoff]

A fight being optional is not really an argument in its favor as to whether it's well designed or not.

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That encounter in particular is well designed though because there's multiple approaches to it.

 

[Majunior]

Still can't decide what class to pick lol. Anything specialize in large AOE damage?

 

[Bob White]

Haven't actually played played this yet. Bought and installed a few weeks ago but I was already in a Neverwinter Nights 2 run. Last night while planning a new party in this I find out that...

THERE IS A MONK CLASS WITH MOUNTS?! WHAT?!

 

[decoyplatypus]

Still can't decide what class to pick lol. Anything specialize in large AOE damage?

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For AOE damage you're generally looking at spellcasters. But lots of different caster classes have access to AOE damage spells, so you'll want to think about, among other thing, whether you'd prefer a prepared caster (i.e., the class needs to specifically decide each day which of his/her known spells will be available to cast) or a spontaneous caster (can cast any spell he/she knows, but typically knows a smaller number of spells).

 

[Majunior]

For AOE damage you're generally looking at spellcasters. But lots of different caster classes have access to AOE damage spells, so you'll want to think about, among other thing, whether you'd prefer a prepared caster (i.e., the class needs to specifically decide each day which of his/her known spells will be available to cast) or a spontaneous caster (can cast any spell he/she knows, but typically knows a smaller number of spells).

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Spellcasters make sense. Are there any subclasses that stand out?

 

[Anoregon]

Haven't actually played played this yet. Bought and installed a few weeks ago but I was already in a Neverwinter Nights 2 run. Last night while planning a new party in this I find out that...

THERE IS A MONK CLASS WITH MOUNTS?! WHAT?!

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Yeah but sadly limited to horses unless you start as another pet/mount class first

 

[Ashodin]

Haven't actually played played this yet. Bought and installed a few weeks ago but I was already in a Neverwinter Nights 2 run. Last night while planning a new party in this I find out that...

THERE IS A MONK CLASS WITH MOUNTS?! WHAT?!

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There's a lot of really fucking cool classes in this game

 

[Deleted member 4090]

A fight being optional is not really an argument in its favor as to whether it's well designed or not.

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It is hard to judge what is or isn't a good encounter based on difficulty. Mathfinder has absurd exponential power level growth if you optimize, and the optional encounters are designed for the people that know how to Math and optimize to the extreme.

 

[Hella]

While I'm still loving a lot about this game, I think once again I have some serious issues with how Owlcat does encounter design that I had in Kingmaker. Drezen was just a fatiguing experience and went on way too long. Some of the encounters were silly... the ghoul pit was an awful grindy slog and the Chorussina fight had me scratching my head at how Owlcat expected a party to reasonably take it (although I got lucky and landed a slumber hex on her which allowed me to just coup de grace her).

While I do appreciate the option for Turn Based mode, and am playing mostly in that mode, it extremely sucks when a scripted fight repositions your party in the middle of it and then the enemy goes first and casually one shots your MC and forces you to reload the whole thing.

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Yeah, Owlcat's encounter design is dire. Just a total kitchen sink approach in every single zone. Unless you're absolutely minmaxing the hell out of the game, or playing on a difficulty way below where you want to, you'll always hit brick walls.

Like, there are no challenging encounters--they're all just gimmick fights where you need to know exactly what you're up against and how to counter or exploit it ahead of time to win. It's just boring as hell to run into these things all the time, in a game where you're already spending dozens of hours shoveling through trash battles. There's no flow to the game; one minute you'll be fighting a demon lord and mop the floor with them, and then in a door two rooms down there's a demon that could singlehandedly defeat both the demons and the crusade.

It's just extremely frustrating.

 

[Schreckstoff]

Oh I struggled with the ghoul encounter until I realized you could use the doorway to protect your backline entirely and then nuke the ghouls.

The trap was way harder and felt cheesier. In turn based you'd get 4 fireballs dropped on your party if you're unlucky before your turn starts.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Spellcasters make sense. Are there any subclasses that stand out?

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Others may have more better answers, but at a general level I'd say that "effectiveness as a blaster" is not going to help you identify a specific class or subclass, because lots of caster classes can be good AOE blasters. You want to think instead in terms of "do I feel like playing a spontaneous or prepared caster" and "are there any class/subclass features that speak to me on a mechanical level, even if they won't ultimately make my blaster better/worse than if I'd chosen a different class with different features. For example, maybe you decide that the most important thing to you is being able to learn a massive number of spells, but you don't want to be tied to a god or religious domain. In that case maybe you tend toward Wizard. Alternatively, you could think, "I just want my character to focus on a few AOE damage spells and nothing else, and I don't want to be bothered about having to prepare spells each day." In that case a spontaneous caster makes more sense.

A very bread-and-butter approach for an AOE blaster would be to pick a wizard, make Evocation your specialist school (Evocation is the spell school that contains most blast spells), and then as you level up pick feats that help make your AOE blasts more effective: spell penetration to get by spell resistance, spell focus (evocation) to raise the DC to resist your evocation spells, abundant casting to give you more casts per day, etc. That approach isn't necessarily better than building an Oracle around nuking. It's just one conventional way of doing it.

EDIT:

One other point I should mention, if you're going to play a caster who focuses on AOE damage:

You'll see elsewhere in the thread people discussing Spell Resistance. Basically, when you cast a spell in PF, it is normally opposed by one of the target's saves (for fireballs and cones of colds and other AOE damage spells, most often this is the Reflex save). The targets roll their save against the DC of your spell. Depending on the result they may take less (or no) damage or suffer fewer secondary effects. That's the way things normally work. But some enemies --- and in WOTR past a certain point it's most enemies -- have an additional layer of defense called Spell Resistance. You have to beat that spell resistance before your spell has any effect at all (i.e., before they even have to make a saving roll). So if you're going to play a blaster, you will need to take feats like spell penetration that help you get past spell resistance.

 

[Vaporak]

Others may have more better answers, but at a general level I'd say that "effectiveness as a blaster" is not going to help you identify a specific class or subclass, because lots of caster classes can be good AOE blasters.

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If the only thing you honestly want to do is throw energy damage around just play a Kineticist. A lot of people who play spellcasters just want to sling some fire around, but pathfinder casters (and D&D casters more broadly) are fundamentally generalists in their design. The kineticist by contrast is great for a player who's character idea is more "I throw fire at them" because it can do it all day every day. And it doesn't give some players a "choice paralysis" feeling because that's basically all the kineticist can do at the start, and then over time introduces thematic customization based on your chosen elements.

 

[Ashodin]

Mythic Demons can fuck off

 

[RandomSeed]

Are some rage powers just not working? Fiend totem specifically says it adds a secondary gore attack if you're using weapons, but does nothing.

 

[Hella]

Are some rage powers just not working? Fiend totem specifically says it adds a secondary gore attack if you're using weapons, but does nothing.

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All of the rage powers only work when raging AFAIK, and you would need the body part available. I think secondary attacks only apply during full attacks, too but not 100% on that.

If that's all the case then yeah, bug.

 

[RandomSeed]

All of the rage powers only work when raging AFAIK, and you would need the body part available. I think secondary attacks only apply during full attacks, too but not 100% on that.

If that's all the case then yeah, bug.

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Yes, was raging, full attacks, and the description says you grow horns for a gore attack, and my character has a head. 😁 The bite attack rage power works, so I just took that.

 

[Hella]

Yes, was raging, full attacks, and the description says you grow horns for a gore attack, and my character has a head. 😁 The bite attack rage power works, so I just took that.

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There's a bug that's been hitting charge really hard (and Daeran) and I wonder if this is connected. (It may all but unrelated though.)

Basically, under some circumstances your char doesn't get their full action when they're supposed to, robbing them of either a full action or just half of their turn. Characters will spend a turn charging and then not move; Daeran spends multiple turns every encounter unable to use his full turn, and I've seen weird behaviour e.g. a char preparing a spell but not actually moving to cast it on the target you selected. And prolly more I just haven't noticed as RTwP blitzes by.

 

[Buckle]

Got a message from the crusader management screen that told me to go back to my lich lair but the pillar has nothing to say..

Spoiler

Please tell me my mythic questline didn't just become fucked by bugs?

 

[Hella]

Got a message from the crusader management screen that told me to go back to my lich lair but the pillar has nothing to say..

Spoiler

Please tell me my mythic questline didn't just become fucked by bugs?

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Have you explored all of the Ziggurat? If it's the quest I'm thinking of it starts very weirdly and abruptly, and ends just as hurriedly.

IIRC the only dialog you have is after the quest itself actually starts.
For specifics:

Spoiler: Lich Path

You have two factions of undead guards under your control, and they're fighting. They're just the ambient guards in your ziggurat. You make a choice and destroy one and keep the other. You will need to fully traverse your Ziggurat to clear out all the deviant guards and resolve the quest.

BUT you only start the quest after fighting (or seeing??) the first set of guards, just past the Skull. I remember it confusing me because the Skull said nothing to me either, but when I wandered a little further in it all popped off.

 

[Buckle]

Have you explored all of the Ziggurat? If it's the quest I'm thinking of it starts very weirdly and abruptly, and ends just as hurriedly.

IIRC the only dialog you have is after the quest itself actually starts.
For specifics:

Spoiler: Lich Path

You have two factions of undead guards under your control, and they're fighting. They're just the ambient guards in your ziggurat. You make a choice and destroy one and keep the other. You will need to fully traverse your Ziggurat to clear out all the deviant guards and resolve the quest.

BUT you only start the quest after fighting (or seeing??) the first set of guards, just past the Skull. I remember it confusing me because the Skull said nothing to me either, but when I wandered a little further in it all popped off.

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Unfortunately no, thats a previous mythic quest I've already done/completed. :(

 

[Deleted member 20831]

Haven't actually played played this yet. Bought and installed a few weeks ago but I was already in a Neverwinter Nights 2 run. Last night while planning a new party in this I find out that...

THERE IS A MONK CLASS WITH MOUNTS?! WHAT?!

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Even more fun is to start with 1 level of Cavalier Beast Rider (Lawful Good alignment), select a Smiladon and then start leveling up as Monk Sohei.

When you reach Monk Sohei level 6 to select you Weapon Training to apply for Flurry of Blows, Smiladon will be at level 7 and mountable.

A monk on a pet with Glaive with Flurry, thats something.

If you want synergies with the Smiladon melee range (because both you and the pet can hit at same melee range), then you can probably do some 3 levels of Rogue with Boon companion, Sai weapon training, DEX for damage, Two Weapon Fighting, 2-3 Sneak dice.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I'll have to revisit this opinion when I've finished the game, but I kind of think the structure of Act 5 is a mistake.

Spoiler

The situation really calls for something closer to Act 2's format, where you are continually marching toward a critical objective (initially, reaching the Queen at Iz) and there are relatively few branches from that main path. You're told at the outset that the Queen is trapped in Iz, cut off by demon armies that have overrun some of your gains from Act 3. So you've got a fraction of your previous army, supply lines are uncertain, and you need to reach Galfrey as soon as possible. Everything points toward the Commander marching on Iz and operating from a camp again rather than chilling in Drezen and slowly consolidating control over the regions around the worldwound.

 

[RandomSeed]

Mounted combat is so silly right now, in a good and bad way. Bad because of all the bugs and general glitches, but then you get stuff like only having a move action, but the mount still makes an attack at the end of it, sometimes the character mounted does. It's like...OKAY, I knew that would happen, yes.

When all the related bugs are fixed and for the love of baby dragons charge actually, finally works right in turn based, mounted builds will be so fun. You can, in general, make a character that is 100% offense, then just sit them on a animal that can get insane early AC with buffs, and they will hardly get targeted except for some AOE I guess, or getting bull rush tripped off the mount. My hunter is kinda like this, but the big triceratops gets stuck on everything, and it's always blocking other characters from getting through.

 

[Sandersson]

Im trying to complete Ranhild's day quest for angel mythic. My undertanding is that the shrine is in the cave where the demon is for the quest Vengeance of sarkoris. So my original plan was just to skip the Vengeance quest wholesale because I cant kill the demon. But it seems like its not possible if I want to do the mythic quest.

Any tips on Derakni devastastator? I can barely hit it with literally all my spells/buffs on. Greasing it doesnt work either. I get maybe one third of its hp bar he eats my party. Even with a succesfull dispel it has 32 ac (more than my main tank).

 

[Shake Appeal]

I always struggle to understand the appeal of mounted combat (and even animal companions!) for people. Riding your smilodon down a dungeon corridor just seems so goofy to me, even if it wasn't buggy.

 

[Sandersson]

While I'm still loving a lot about this game, I think once again I have some serious issues with how Owlcat does encounter design that I had in Kingmaker. Drezen was just a fatiguing experience and went on way too long. Some of the encounters were silly... the ghoul pit was an awful grindy slog and the Chorussina fight had me scratching my head at how Owlcat expected a party to reasonably take it (although I got lucky and landed a slumber hex on her which allowed me to just coup de grace her).

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Yeah, Owlcat games seem to honestly be absolute shit shows in terms of balancing. Drezen was the most exhausting gaming experience in my life (and not in a dark souls kinda way). 90% of the encounters are just auto attacks untill the game throws an enemy thats impossible until you get lucky and land those crits or get a slumber to land that coup. And I want to highlight that someone at Owlcat thought Drezen needed a weapon vendor, but not a scroll vendor.

They also really need to start giving out some lvl requirements for quests or something. I have no wasted like an hour and the end result is that there are three quests in Wintersun that I cannot finish because one enemy is an impossible force for my lvl 10 party. I have zero chance of beating the Final sunset of winter boss either. It takes forever to run back to wintersun and run across the whoooooole frigging map again. Speed up button would have been a must for this game.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I always struggle to understand the appeal of mounted combat (and even animal companions!) for people. Riding your smilodon down a dungeon corridor just seems so goofy to me, even if it wasn't buggy.

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Well animal companions are extra protection for your back line and can be pretty effective with teammwork feats. Mounted combat, idk. It was kind of a headache in tabletop PF and I thought it was a bad idea for a stretch goal (mainly because of how much work it would require). Near launch I was curious about Owlcat's implementation, but not so curious I would try it when it's still glitchy.

 

[RandomSeed]

There's nothing cooler than my half-orc hunter wading into combat on top of a giant triceratops, it just needs to function better. Need to be able to walk through allies like the KM turn based mod.

 

[WonderingRogue]

Yeah, the little bit of footage I've seen with a horse hanging out with the party in a dungeon, like a companion and fighting enemies took me right out of the immersion of the game. Seems super goofball, like something you'd see in Divinity Original Sin 1.

Definitely will not be doing that on my playthrough.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I have no wasted like an hour and the end result is that there are three quests in Wintersun that I cannot finish because one enemy is an impossible force for my lvl 10 party. I have zero chance of beating the Final sunset of winter boss either. It takes forever to run back to wintersun and run across the whoooooole frigging map again. Speed up button would have been a must for this game.

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Just a note on Wintersun, is the enemy that's impossible a

Spoiler

specter?

Because if so, that's sort of by design. You took something and you need to put it back.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Oh I struggled with the ghoul encounter until I realized you could use the doorway to protect your backline entirely and then nuke the ghouls.

The trap was way harder and felt cheesier. In turn based you'd get 4 fireballs dropped on your party if you're unlucky before your turn starts.

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To be fair, by that time you have a readily available AoE buff spell that grants your entire party complete immunity to fire damage and lasts 10 minutes. Daeran can learn it, Sosiel can freely prepare it, Nenio can cast it off a scroll and a whole bunch of other classes (particularly Hunter and Druid) also get that spell two or three level ups earlier.

I always struggle to understand the appeal of mounted combat (and even animal companions!) for people. Riding your smilodon down a dungeon corridor just seems so goofy to me, even if it wasn't buggy.

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Getting a 7th or 8th party member that can often outdamage real characters (Mythic Beast Smilodon is an absolute blender, 5 attacks after charging with 30+ Strength, ignoring all damage reductions at level 7) and vastly expand your carrying capacity so you don't even need to buy Bag of Holdings anymore doesn't explain it? Not to mention that they just auto-revive during rests even if they died.

And there's plenty of equipment and VERY efficient buff spells just for them (e.g. Greater Magic Fang and the ever hilarious Animal Growth).

 

[Deleted member 20831]

Has anyone tried the Rogue - Rowdy? I just realized that it gets Vital Strike right at level 1 and it adds 2D6 damage over Sneak Dice!

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[Shake Appeal]

Getting a 7th or 8th party member that can often outdamage real characters (Mythic Beast Smilodon is an absolute blender, 5 attacks after charging with 30+ Strength, ignoring all damage reductions at level 7) and vastly expand your carrying capacity so you don't even need to buy Bag of Holdings anymore doesn't explain it? Not to mention that they just auto-revive during rests even if they died.

And there's plenty of equipment and VERY efficient buff spells just for them (e.g. Greater Magic Fang and the ever hilarious Animal Growth).

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Oh, it's not about the effectiveness. I just find them kinda silly, and they get sillier as they grow in size.

Has anyone tried the Rogue - Rowdy? I just realized that it gets Vital Strike right at level 1 and it adds 2D6 damage over Sneak Dice!

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Not all the way, but I used one level (with Accomplished Sneak Attacker) to meet Arcane Trickster requirements for Nenio on my alt build for her. The Vital Strike crossbow shots are surprisingly good around the level you get them, provided you pick targets not in melee. Long-term she'll be spamming rays, but I was pleased with what it added.

 

[Ashodin]

Are there any other ways I can buff light weapons? The Kinetic Blade is used as if it was one, so I'm wondering what all I can stack here.