PANZER DRAGOON: Remake |OT| Same Tower, New Power

MufausaThe3rd · Mar 27, 2020

Griff said:
3ish hours on normal, if that.

Not even. Ran a stream tonight on Normal and completed the entire game within an hour... I died 3 times in the playthrough.

My main gripes. The aiming reticle feels off sometimes. There were definitely times where I aimed my cursor at enemies and it would not lock onto them until a had the very far square aimed at them. It felt weird.. Not sure how to properly explain it. But definitely, I don't remember it feeling that sluggish as the original game. Also, I am pissed off that they advertised 60FPS on the direct trailer when the game clearly runs at 20-30 FPS both in Handheld and Docked modes. Load times on the Switch are damn awful... Also, as I mentioned before. The game is very very short. I am not experienced at this game at all and died probably a total of 3 times through my playthrough. Yet I finished the game on Normal within an hour.... For $30 CDN. That's not really attractive at all. I would wait for the Steam release.

Art direction is really nice. I am happy with the way that the remake visuals look. Even when playing in Docked mode. It looks really good and the game does have a Photo Mode too.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/576304942?t=00h05m32s (Ends at 1:08:05)

bangai-o · Mar 27, 2020

It is a shooter in the same way that Ikaruga is, just in a different perspective. I won't complain about length.

BBboy20 · Mar 27, 2020

HueyFreeman said:
Control
- Here's the biggest problem. It feels a bit more sluggish than the original, which is correctable in the menu. But the big issue is painting targets with lock on is much more fussy... basically only occurs when you nail them with the smallest square in the cursor. This really hurts the whole feel of the game. I play the original regularly, it is definitely off.

that seems to be the main complaint. Seems like Orta is still the main modern way to play this game. Also does not bod well with the sequel and the house of the dead games.

Green Mario · Mar 27, 2020

Gonna buy it on Switch just to show support but I'm really looking forward to playing it in PC.

WarpSpeedMolasses · Mar 27, 2020

Never played these games before.

Does this have any sort of a plot or narrative? Any RPG features? Or is it a straight shooter?

SirNinja · Mar 27, 2020

WarpSpeedMolasses said:
Never played these games before.

Does this have any sort of a plot or narrative? Any RPG features? Or is it a straight shooter?

This has very little plot; it's straight-up gameplay for the most part. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei, also getting a remake from the same team behind this one, has more of a story, even though it too is a rail shooter primarily.

Panzer Dragoon Saga, however, is an RPG with free-flight and a ton of narrative, tying together everything from the first two games together with a ton of material all its own. Whether or not Saga will get a remake like the rail shooters is anyone's guess...but don't wait around for it. It would be an absolutely monumental task to remake compared to I and II, so the chances of it happening are slim. (If these remakes prove extremely popular: put a "somewhat" in front of "slim".)

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

SirNinja said:
This has very little plot; it's straight-up gameplay for the most part. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei, also getting a remake from the same team behind this one, has more of a story, even though it too is a rail shooter primarily.

Panzer Dragoon Saga, however, is an RPG with free-flight and a ton of narrative, tying together everything from the first two games together with a ton of material all its own. Whether or not Saga will get a remake like the rail shooters is anyone's guess...but don't wait around for it. It would be an absolutely monumental task to remake compared to I and II, so the chances of it happening are slim. (If these remakes prove extremely popular: put a "somewhat" in front of "slim".)

True about Saga. I honestly do not think we will ever get Saga remade. *hugs my japanese copy* :)

shadowman16 · Mar 27, 2020

Another issue with the game is its insanely long loading. Each new level feels like it takes a couple of minutes to load, and if you choose to restart a stage it takes around 10 seconds to do so. Which gets annoying on later levels when your getting hit pretty cheeply... I checked out a Saturn vid to compare stage 5 and its just much cleaner in the old version - you can see what is coming at you in the distance and (camera) movement seems faster/more responsive making for a fairer game. Really disappointed at how this turned out, graphically it feels like the Rondo of Blood remake on the PSP - using new colourschemes and an updated artstyle to try and make it look prettier, but obscuring obstacles in the game and just making for an inferior experience compared to the original.

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

shadowman16 said:
Another issue with the game is its insanely long loading. Each new level feels like it takes a couple of minutes to load, and if you choose to restart a stage it takes around 10 seconds to do so. Which gets annoying on later levels when your getting hit pretty cheeply... I checked out a Saturn vid to compare stage 5 and its just much cleaner in the old version - you can see what is coming at you in the distance and (camera) movement seems faster/more responsive making for a fairer game. Really disappointed at how this turned out, graphically it feels like the Rondo of Blood remake on the PSP - using new colourschemes and an updated artstyle to try and make it look prettier, but obscuring obstacles in the game and just making for an inferior experience compared to the original.

The loading is longer than I would've liked, but then again, a pc with an ssd will solve this.

Amalthea · Mar 27, 2020

I hope they can patch most of the problems because overall I still like this remake but it's true that it needs some fixes.

Since they are going to add gyro controls and the arranged soundtrack it at least seems like they are still ready to fix some stuff up.

shadowman16 · Mar 27, 2020

Tailzo said:
The loading is longer than I would've liked, but then again, a pc with an ssd will solve this.

Don't think I can squeeze a SSD into my Switch ;) Plus, I don't see why its an issue in the first place, other games on the Switch don't seem to have load times this long (especially when restarting a level that's already loaded...), its more like a problem with the game than the hardware its running on...

KernelC · Mar 27, 2020

shadowman16 said:
Don't think I can squeeze a SSD into my Switch ;) Plus, I don't see why its an issue in the first place, other games on the Switch don't seem to have load times this long (especially when restarting a level that's already loaded...), its more like a problem with the game than the hardware its running on...

most games on Switch take longer to load than their counterparts in other consoles

Lynd · Mar 27, 2020

Watching the GameXplain coverage and yeah, th e dragon up and down movement is annoying. They should have recreated as is.

Plus, I still feel the art direction is a bit of a miss, not outright bad. But just doesn't sit well or feels faithful. Colour palatte too warm too.

SpitztheGreat · Mar 27, 2020

As someone who found a copy of Saga at a local store a couple years ago and bit the bullet, I'm torn on how I feel about a potential Saga re-release/remake. On one hand I don't want them to screw with it, just release it for the new systems and update the UI and graphics. On the other hand, Saga is AWESOME, but it's held back badly by the technology. After about three hours of playing it I knew that this game was simply special, and that it should be been shifted to the Dreamcast. The game deserves more content than the Saturn could manage. Expanding the game, even just slightly, could really take a special game to the next level. I'm afraid that the hype for most people around Saga will never match the actual content because the limitations of the Saturn are too abstract at this point. Remaking Saga, with additional content could flesh out the game and the lore better.

I don't know. Part of me also wants Saga to forever remain a Saturn exclusive, leave something for the system to hang its hat on.

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

shadowman16 said:
Don't think I can squeeze a SSD into my Switch ;) Plus, I don't see why its an issue in the first place, other games on the Switch don't seem to have load times this long (especially when restarting a level that's already loaded...), its more like a problem with the game than the hardware its running on...

Fair point, yes many Switch games handle loading times better than this game :)

I was talking about a future PC version :)

shadowman16 · Mar 27, 2020

Lynd said:
Watching the GameXplain coverage and yeah, th e dragon up and down movement is annoying. They should have recreated as is.

Plus, I still feel the art direction is a bit of a miss, not outright bad. But just doesn't sit well or feels faithful. Colour palatte too warm too.

Agreed. Just checked that vid out and that might explain some of the issues I'm having figuring out just what my hitbox is... its certainly not helping me!

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

shadowman16 said:
Agreed. Just checked that vid out and that might explain some of the issues I'm having figuring out just what my hitbox is... its certainly not helping me!

I figured I needed to get good at the game,. but I am not very good at the game yet. Although I am improving. Maybe they can improve this in a patch.

Virtua Sanus · Mar 27, 2020

Cannot say I am super happy with this remake. This is another Halo 1 Anniversary situation where the devs either did not understand what they had or perhaps did not care enough to do the game proper justice. Some of these aesthetic changes are intense and show a lack of respect for the source material. Why would you change the dragon's iconic roar of all things too?

Ultimately behind it all there is a classic there still obviously, but these changes and problems just make me want to play the original instead. Such a shame that they could not add the original as an unlockable or something.

I wish the devs just made this their own spinoff game. Even if it turned out pretty poorly I think I would really appreciate their efforts a lot more. Zwei is a much harder game to play nowadays due to it's lack of of ports but there is so much more to lose in a re-imagining so I am pretty concerned! Keeping my hopes up that they seriously listen to the feedback going into Zwei, but as it stands I absolutely do not want them anywhere near Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Curious how different the game will look on PC and Stadia. 60fps at least is obvious, but hopefully it has way higher res textures too.

Lynd · Mar 27, 2020

As an aside. Did the port on Orta perform better on Xbox One than it did on 360? Fuzzy on the details.

Nuclear Muffin · Mar 27, 2020

It's Unity. Unity means that long loading times (and garbage collection) are a given.

Oddly enough, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Rescue Team DX is the one major exception to the rule!

Virtua King · Mar 27, 2020

I'll never get why SEGA is always so handsoff and loose with their IP's. Just keep these guys away from Saga is all I ask for at this point.

BBboy20 · Mar 27, 2020

Lynd said:
As an aside. Did the port on Orta perform better on Xbox One than it did on 360? Fuzzy on the details.

Seems to run fine on 360.

Virtua Sanus · Mar 27, 2020

Lynd said:
As an aside. Did the port on Orta perform better on Xbox One than it did on 360? Fuzzy on the details.

Absolutely, especially the PAL release which would always crash on a certain level on Xbox 360.

It cleans up the graphics majorly too. On Xbox One X it looks like a genuine remaster.

Lynd · Mar 27, 2020

Virtua Sanus said:
Absolutely, especially the PAL release which would always crash on a certain level on Xbox 360.

It cleans up the graphics majorly too. On Xbox One X it looks like a genuine remaster.

Thanks for that. I assume it just downloads the NTSC version on X1? Good to know it's improved. I have the PAL disk and will be nice to play this again when I get the SX eventually.

EDIT: Oh I should have been clearer, I was asking about the port of PD1 included as a bonus on Orta. Not Orta itself.

Sumio Mondo · Mar 27, 2020

I like the new boss intros they added (those weren't in the original).

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
I like the new boss intros they added (those weren't in the original).

Yes, and the very first intro is really well made too :)

SinCityAssassin · Mar 27, 2020

Virtua Sanus said:
Ultimately behind it all there is a classic there still obviously, but these changes and problems just make me want to play the original instead. Such a shame that they could not add the original as an unlockable or something.

Hopefully they next set of patches they promised within the next week or two help fix these problems. They have a public discord with a dedicated feedback channel so it's not impossible they're already hearing these things.

Dancrane212 · Mar 27, 2020

Lynd said:
EDIT: Oh I should have been clearer, I was asking about the port of PD1 included as a bonus on Orta. Not Orta itself.

It's still has the same blur as original Xbox but it runs at a higher resolution (you also have to force it to 4:3 with your TV).

My Life in Gaming covered it here (timestamped below):

Dancrane212 · Mar 27, 2020

Also, VG Tech has a framerate analysis of the game (the Crimson Dragon thumbnail did throw me off though haha):

Switch in Docked Mode renders the game at a resolution of 1728x972 and renders the UI at a resolution of 1920x1080. Switch in Portable Mode renders the game at a resolution of 1152x648 and renders the UI at a resolution of 1280x720.

Stats (docked):

Celine · Mar 27, 2020

Virtua King said:
I'll never get why SEGA is always so handsoff and loose with their IP's. Just keep these guys away from Saga is all I ask for at this point.

Sega isn't interested in doing remakes/new games of these legacy IPs because they wouldn't make enough money and are more than content to just license them out to other companies to earn some quick and easy bucks.
In other words Sega does what Nintendon't.

Kapryov · Mar 27, 2020

I really want this, but my Switch is currently Animal Crossing land, and if I'm not playing that my roommate is.

While I love the music and art of the original, I was never a huge fan of the game itself. My love for the series truly started with Zwei. I'm still up for a playhrough though, so I will get it soon. I just figured I had more time, this surprise release is working against the game in my case..

Spine Crawler · Mar 27, 2020

so i played a bit of this and i have to say that this is exactly what I needed right now. I only own Orta and played the other games only on displays and at some friends houses. I am a moderate Starfox fan (own all the games and have mixed feelings towards all of em) and love Sin and punishment.

Graphically the game looks amazing. I understand its not 720p/1080p and also not 60 fps but it runs smoothly. What I love is the art design and the colors. Personally I found Orta to be extremely sharp (played it on my xbox one x recently) and beautiful but at the same time the colors often tended to be on the mute side. Here the colors are extremely vibrant and I have to say it looks gorgeous. What I find lacking is the visual, sound and force feedback on the hits, Whenever the laser hits enemies you barely get any impact which is a bit strange. Regarding the controls I don't think they are that bad. Maybe this is just the way I play but locking on enemies is okay.

The only thing I really think is bad is the loadings.Those are quite long indeed.

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

Dancrane212 said:
Also, VG Tech has a framerate analysis of the game (the Crimson Dragon thumbnail did throw me off though haha):

Stats (docked):

So docked framerate is quite solid then.

I'm looking forward to the gyro controls, I think it's a shame we never got a Panzer Dragon wii game.

OrakioRob · Mar 27, 2020

I guess I'm in the minority here since I like the remake quite a bit, but...

HueyFreeman said:
But the big issue is painting targets with lock on is much more fussy... basically only occurs when you nail them with the smallest square in the cursor. This really hurts the whole feel of the game. I play the original regularly, it is definitely off.

... this really needs to be fixed.

And...

Spine Crawler said:
What I find lacking is the visual, sound and force feedback on the hits, Whenever the laser hits enemies you barely get any impact which is a bit strange.

... this.

Aside from that, I'm very surprised and happy with how this turned out.

I think it's very, very hard to get Stage 1 right in a remake and it makes sense to me that most fans aren't happy with it (I don't like it much either), but as someone who thinks the other stages in the original game aren't nearly as wonderful as the first one, I think the remake does a great job with those.

SinCityAssassin · Mar 27, 2020

Celine said:
Sega isn't interested in doing remakes/new games of these legacy IPs because they wouldn't make enough money and are more than content to just license them out to other companies to earn some quick and easy bucks.
In other words Sega does what Nintendon't.

What they DID do was lose all the source codes. Never helps with a remake.

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

OrakioRob said:
I guess I'm in the minority here since I like the remake quite a bit,

No, I like it quite a bit too. And I got the feeling we are not the only ones. But it is easy to get annoyed by things like loading and hit boxes. I may be easely pleased, but I am quite happy with what we got.

Mugy · Mar 27, 2020

Any review recommendations?

Tailzo · Mar 27, 2020

Mugy said:
Any review recommendations?

I don't think there are many written reviews this fast. If you take a look at youtube, you can find some.

AmirMoosavi · Mar 27, 2020

Looking forward to a 60fps PC port, hopefully they fix the control issues by then and maybe some fans will release shaders and mods for the visuals.

thatmustbyogurt · Mar 27, 2020

looks vibrant and special

Wing Scarab · Mar 27, 2020

I don't like the way the dragon bounces and the way the wings flap look very weird. Its either bad rigging or very bad animating.

crazillo · Mar 27, 2020

A bummer that I don't enjoy the graphic style of this Panzer Dragoon remake. Orta in 4K on Xbox One catches the spirit of the original way better, IMO.

deadpixels · Mar 27, 2020

Hey Poor Player: 4/5

Went through a few full playthroughs before putting my thoughts on the game together for our review. Personally, I quite enjoy the new visual style, and it feels amazing exploring the game's familiar, imaginative environments with the remake's fresh coat of paint.

While the upgraded visuals are fantastic along with Saori Kobayashi's new musical arrangements, the core gameplay is exactly what you'd expect from the original game, warts and all. As someone who absolutely loved the original, I'm happy with that. The hit detection can still be wonky, and the flat, tinny sound effects are in stark contrast to the game's rich music, but hey, we're talking about a $25 port here. And for your money, those looking to revisit the Saturn launch title and relive the nostalgia are definitely getting their money's worth.

As I say in the review, I really wish the framerate were higher. Thankfully, I think it's safe to say the Xbox One and PC versions will address this issue. But for someone who's content to blast imperial scum out of the sky while drinking a beer on my porch, I can live with a meager 30 fps.

Klappdrachen · Mar 27, 2020

You can now order the physical version here:

Switch Limited Run #67: Panzer Dragoon

Panzer Dragoon on physical cartridge for the Nintendo Switch. Region free. Includes a full-color interior print and instruction booklet. Best Buy may be receiving a very small number of copies of this game with alternate cover art. Best Buy has the ability to not move forward with their order...

www.limitedrungames.com

mudai · Mar 27, 2020

I played it a bit last night and only made it to Episode 4 before I went game over. Whoops! That damn tunnel boss always gave me trouble. The shooting does indeed feel a bit off. I don't know why. I don't remember having so many problems locking on to targets in the original. If I remember correctly, big Panzer Dragoon fan from Japan played the game at TGS and posted his impressions on Twitter saying that the shooting doesn't feel satisying. I don't know if the devs saw those impressions, though. Other than that: The OST rearrangements are pretty good and I had lots of emotions hearing the "Flight" theme and of course the main theme on the title screen. The sound effects are bit flat, though. The loading times are atrocious and the new art design is bit hit and miss. Some areas look pretty good while others kinda miss what the original tried to do, especially the first stage. It's too brownish looking. I did like the desert level, though. I feel like, but maybe I'm misremembering it, they tweaked the difficulty, at least on normal. Those giant ass sandworms did a lot more damage in the original to me and were attacking a bit more often with their "green acid" shots. I only noticed that in stage 2 though, stage 3 and stage 4 seemed normal from what I remember.

I played it in docked mode and the framerate was stable but it sucks that it's not 60 FPS as advertised in the Nintendo Direct (did they use PC version footage for that one?). The most baffling thing is the delay when switching to the side or the back of your dragon. Is that intentional?

Overall I think the remake is fairly decent. It could be better, of course. But after some impressions I thought it might be really bad, which isn't the case. I hope they can fix some things and learn from the experience when remaking Panzer Dragoon Zwei. I hope the remake will be successful, as I really love the Panzer Dragoon franchise and would love to see Orta on other platforms (I know how amazing the Xbox One backwards compatible version is, but it would be great if Sega could somehow make it available on other platforms like Steam as well. I love that game so much) and a proper remake of Saga.

shadowman16 · Mar 27, 2020

Boss 4 is weird. I've been replaying it and can basically get through the stage without taking much to any damage, but the boss flat out sucks. Between your slow rate of fire, and this annoying side attack (where your camera pans so slow - which is a problem with the remaster) is annoying. The laser attack just seems broken, I get hit while not being anywhere near close to it. Either its a depth perception issue or a hitbox issue (I'd believe either). Pity as rest of the game up to this point is good. I wanted to retry stage 5 again to see if I could beat my performance yesterday but I keep replaying the boss fight in stage 4 out of annoyance of my poor performance - well that and you don't get all your health back after a win, so losing lots of health against the boss only messes me up in the next one :(

Ogni-XR21 · Mar 27, 2020

deadpixels said:
While the upgraded visuals are fantastic along with Saori Kobayashi's new musical arrangements, the core gameplay is exactly what you'd expect from the original game, warts and all.

There are no new musical arrangements yet.

GenTask · Mar 27, 2020

I wish more 'remakes' and remasters would include a way to play the game the way it originally looked. Finding copies of the originals are stupidly expensive.

Caz · Mar 27, 2020

GenTask said:
I wish more 'remakes' and remasters would include a way to play the way the game originally looked. Finding copies of the originals are stupidly expensive.

Orta did that, and it's a completely original (and great, in my humble opinion) game! Unlike Saga (and potentially Zwei, I don't remember if SEGA ever confirmed that the lost the code to that one), the original Panzer Dragoon's code seems to still exist in some form since they're re-released it several times so it's pretty baffling that the remake doesn't give you the option.

Virtua King · Mar 27, 2020

Celine said:
Sega isn't interested in doing remakes/new games of these legacy IPs because they wouldn't make enough money and are more than content to just license them out to other companies to earn some quick and easy bucks.
In other words Sega does what Nintendon't.

Oh, I get that. I just wish they had a stricter selection process, and actually looked at the resumes for some of these developers.

PANZER DRAGOON: Remake |OT| Same Tower, New Power

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