It'd be disappointing if they aren't. The cars in Sport are of a ridiculous quality anyway, so outsourcing doesn't appear to cause any glaring differences from their inhouse models.
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Over 2000 developers and 13 outsourcing studios worked on The Last of Us Part II
- Thread starter Raigor
- Start date
It'd be disappointing if they aren't. The cars in Sport are of a ridiculous quality anyway, so outsourcing doesn't appear to cause any glaring differences from their inhouse models.
These support studios have already popped up outside of China, South East Asia is another huge area for them, but they exist all over.
I mean hiring people is even more expensive, especially for stuff that might just be needed for a fraction of the development. That's why IT consultants are so popular despite being expensive as heck
People are forgetting how good RDR2 looks. It's the only game that rivals this, though
OP
OP
Yep and you even have western studios opening new offices in places like India and Malaysia to support game development
Sony, Rockstar, Sumo Digital, Codemasters, Larian all have at least one studio in India or Malaysia.
Huh. This is what Jonathan Cooper talked about I guess. In order to finish the game to quality they started outsourcing a lot of animation, which was apparently new for them. Previously it had all been in-house.
I think this game came in really hot over an entire year. There's multiple things both in the story and in the game's production to suggest it. Druckmann also looked really stressed in most of the crunch-cycle videos, in a way that did not come across in his previous games IMO.
I think this game came in really hot over an entire year. There's multiple things both in the story and in the game's production to suggest it. Druckmann also looked really stressed in most of the crunch-cycle videos, in a way that did not come across in his previous games IMO.
Oh I'm sure, I'm just saying that it seems like the industry is really dependent on these low cost outsourcing pipelines and if they don't have them, I'm not sure I can see how these games would remain sustainable?
Just doing some napkin math the numbers are staggering.
Next gen wet clothes and water.That explains this.
Credits: TLOU 2 PhotoThread
You are making some extreme, unverified leaps of logic. The outsourcing is absolutely common as several posters have explained above and done mainly for assets.
It's common, but allegedly not common for animation, for Naughty Dog. I'm going off a tweet-rant from Jonathan Cooper, an ex-employee I've looked up to for years.
Yeah but you want people who stick around who have the talent you can rely on and bounce off from. If you're a 10 man group outsourcing to different companies making it up to 1000 people (just as an example) over several projects you're going to see wildly different results.
Wow these are just gorgeous.That explains this.
Credits: TLOU 2 PhotoThread
Well yea that's a given. PS5 ND is crazy to even think about.
And the funny thing is, their games assets were like the most outsourceable ones compared to other genres.
ND has been outsourcing since at least the first Uncharted. (judging by the credits) Probably even longer than that.
The tweet rant that had verifiable falsehoods exposed by other ND staff? Okay sure.
The people you want sticking around will just get hired at ND .
Outsourcing assets etc etc does not matter when it comes to finding talent or wanting to keep it.
It's why ND now near 400 people compare to 150 just 10 years ago .
He deleted half of it. I searched google and found this, so you're somewhat right, but I think Cooper still has a perfect point about talent-retention and Naughty Dog not being committed to their employed workforce.
There are skeletons falling out of the closet on this game.
Naughty Dog has around 400 or so employees. This is just taking into account everyone that had a hand in the games development, so the overwhelming majority are outsourcing devs.
Oh, for sure it's an absolutely crucial pillar of game development now, especially AAA. I think it's too wide spread and too important to really go away at this point. I'm more worried about the industry intentionally stifling growth in those markets, so they never be more than just support studios.
2000 developers includes outsourced contractors. Those aren't really employees, as it relates to Naughty Dog and Sony.
After some of the other shit Jonathan Cooper tweeted out, or rather outright made up, I would take anything he said with a massive grain of salt. He was also lowkey shitting on the junior animations hires ND had made.
edit: you already know all this and are still on this shit?
What skeletons ?
Tech and asset wise this is one best games on the market if not the best .
It also ND longest and biggest game by a huge amount .
Outsourcing is normal and they have been doing it for years , all big AAA games do it .
Yea not sure why people are all of the sudden villainizing outsourcing.
None of this says anything about the kind of burnout or fed-up developers it created - the things that mean Naughty Dog will be able to keep doing this stuff.
You're mainly getting this from one sketchy guy and his tweets.
You will get that in the Remastered PS5 version.
You mean the sketchy guy that worked for them? Or do you mean Jason Schreier whose job it is to source these types of things?
What makes studios "the best" is when they are smart enough to realize they are not "the best" to be doing something on their game. Knowing that they have partners out there who could make their game even better is why AAA games are AAA games. Everyone from Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Ninja Theory, 343, The Coalition to Nintendo are outsourcing parts of their games to studios that do one thing and do it extremely well. Think of it a lot like doctors. You have general practitioners, but when you have an issue with your throat they refer you to ENT. Your lungs a cardiologist. And so on. Whenever complex systems are in place there is always someone with a very specific focus who can do a better job than you can. Relying on them makes you better off or in the case of videogames you will end up with a better game.
Not villanizing outsourcing. It's commonplace, we know, but ND is particularly known for its in-house "no producers" development which has largely led to its success. I don't know about the cost of this outsourcing on TLOU2. Who knows, maybe it is a new, better solution financially and stability-wise than before... but the amount of departures and turnover just tells another story IMO.
I've just learned from other franchises (mainly BioWare) that when the management squeezes too hard the talent runs out, and then if they keep doing it, outsourcing isn't going to be enough. TLOU2 impressed me with how good it was after how much I thought people of talent had left, so we'll just have to wait and see if ND even keeps making these kinds of games for 5 more years.
The one sketchy guy who wrote GameAnim, a really helpful and insightful book on game animation, worked on some of my all time faves over the years (Mass Effect 1, Assassins Creed, Uncharted 4) and who has a very good portfolio. He's probably taking it too far, especially using Twitter as the platform to take his feud (we've seen this go wrong every time, Marty O Donnell and Activision etc.) but it's a rare glimpse for the everymen out here to see how developers actually feel and not the political "We love our work, our partners are great" or whatever.
Given the scale and ambition of TLOU2. Not really.It's more than twice as long as the first game and within that the freedom afforded to the player, amount of assets, animations, etc. has gone up exponentially. As well as the quality standard.
He deleted half of it. I searched google and found this, so you're somewhat right, but I think Cooper still has a perfect point about talent-retention and Naughty Dog not being committed to their employed workforce.
There are skeletons falling out of the closet on this game.
Outsourcing and attrition are not necessarily related. Studios without attrition outsource as well. Contractors and outsourcers are traditionally used when you need people for a certain task that is a one-time thing and not necessarily a long term need. This is extremely common across the entire tech industry.
Being an expert on game animation does not make you an expert on project management, staffing, etc.
You are not making any sense all big AAA games outsource no matter the talent .
ND having no produces don't mean they don't outsource they have been outsourcing for years , so it's not new .
If want to talking about talent leaving lets see who leave in the next couple of years and then who replace them .
Most large games and large movies and large everything is outsourced.
My point was this would be outsourcing animation teams. But yes, we'll have to wait and see. I fully concede outsourcing is a natural part of AAA dev, and something you can see in big reknowned things like Capcom's RE2 Remake (huge amounts of outsourcing in credits). And also that without the in-house talent available, outsourcing does lead to great results usually.
But I don't think outsourcing is a reliable method to building a developer persona. I think there's several examples of largely in-house productions that have certain trademark things, which are eroded the more you do it with outsourcing, which is the point I'm making.
Can we call something so manufactured "author art"? Although I guess it's not much different to movies with CGI.
First you have no idea if they outsourcing animation .
That is some thing you come up with after reading one person tweet that put down there new hires .
ND also has a huge amount of animators and keep on adding to them .
Unsurprising, phenomenal achievement.
How do those numbers compare to assassin's creed (a considerably less impressive game)?
How do those numbers compare to assassin's creed (a considerably less impressive game)?
Yes because the artistic aspects of the writing and story are mainly just three people.