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Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
AT A COMPETITIVE LEVEL...

I get that people really - REALLY - want to read negative shit into literally everything the guy says, but he's clearly not talking about casual gamers with that rant. He plays competitively and at a high tier of play, and you don't get there without being upset if you lose and wanting to get better.

And that goes in all competitive sports - take the NHL, for example, and this guy.



You know what he's doing now? Not playing in the NHL. He never managed to be better than a pretty good backup, but never for long streaks - he wasn't mentally tough enough to battle through real adversity or even just a string of tough luck.

Moneyball had a GREAT example:


If you're ok with losing, you're not going to be one of the best in the world at whatever competitive thing you set you're mind to. In competitive sports - including esports - if you're ok with losing, you're not going to hang at the top levels because that's where the crazy dedicated people are - the Kobe Bryants and Michael Jordans of the world who'll practice in pre-season like it's the final game of the playoffs and who'll do everything they can to win because they cannot stand losing.

Obviously you shouldn't be throwing your controller if you're just sitting on your couch playing CoD in pickup groups, but that's the difference between casual and competitive.

I'm not entirely sure why you're using a scene from a film to illustrate the act of losing in reality.

There are a lot of highly skilled athletes that, no matter their disposition, will never rise above the status of back-up and that will only last a few years at the highest professional level. Succeeding at the level of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant is exceedingly rare (and Bryant may or may not have gotten away with raping a woman because of his celebrity status, so there's that, too). There's also a difference between fostering a competitive fire and raging when you lose. Even in a professional competitive environment, it's hard to respect someone that reacts like a petulant twelve-year-old when they get their ass kicked at Call of Duty.
 

KernelC

alt account
Banned
Aug 28, 2019
3,561
It genuinely frightens me how many young children are just absorbing hours of YouTube and twitch.
according to one of my aunts, apparently the daughter of my cousin refuses to eat unless she is watching a musical video on her phone, and she is like 4 years old. Sure, they are kiddie songs and basically what most kids watched on TV since decades ago except on the phone, but it's insane how much influence they have over younger generations
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
keeping your kid from watching Ninja seems like pretty good parenting to me

Yeah, they are pretty good if we take this anecdote as an example. Observe the issue->Explore the kid's environment->Take adequate measures. Kid was watching a piece of shit streamer, and was becoming a piece of shit gamer and being in consequence.

By the way it is the aunt and uncle who take action, not the parents. More times than not it's on us to fix the parents mistakes (and thankfully my niece and nephew don't watch any streamers, but the have developed very bad gaming habits that extended to real life thanks to their parents negligence)
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Kids should not be on any user generated content platform. Hell, they shouldn't be using the internet at all unsupervised.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,251
Eh I'm no Ninja fan or viewer so I can't even begin to relate/know what bad influence his stuff has, but I'd chalk this one up more on actual parenting over simply pegging it as a Ninja caused it. Kids need some balance in their life and if the kid was just consuming Ninja all day everyday then yeah, its no surprise he would imitate or be influenced by him.

Big up to the adults for recognizing an issue though and putting their foot down to help put the kid back on a more normal emotional track. This does more than a lot of us realize.
 

Mr_DyZ

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 12, 2019
776
I mean that's not a ninja problem...

That's an "insert any competitive-game-streamer problem".. Blaming him for that seems a bit weird imo. Also, if the worst thing your kid is doing is watching Ninja yell whenever he gets shot in Fortnite, I think you're safe.

Nobody is blaming Ninja for being a raging manchild. They decided that his content was unsuited towards their nephew because of his past history dealing with his abusive father, and the idea of validating angry emotional outbursts.

Eh, if you go on to read the rest of the tweets, it kind of comes across that way. The remainder of her tweets discuss going to YouTube and finding other streamers who were more "calm" (OK), and how he got better at the game (and emotionally) by watching them and learning. Pretty much comes off as a "Ninja is bad for kids (in general)" PSA.
 
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Useyourfist

Member
Oct 13, 2019
167
For those interested, have a Google of primary and secondary socialisation, as these are well regarded concepts which I'd say can give value to the idea of streamers having influence over children in this context.
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,108
Speaking from personal experience with Minecraft and Roblox streamers and my son in particular, we've managed to narrow down to about 4 streamers who just play and goof around and have fun. The Itfunneh team are parental favourites lol

I mean you'd think Minecraft wouldn't get a kid wound up, but one of the streams he watched was constantly about mods, and his asks for the game reflected that and so on.

Generally tho, we found the best way to calm him down has been to limit YT access generally.
Who are some good Minecraft/fortnight alternatives in case I need them?
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
All those kids in the 90's and 00's who broke a controller in anger, turned off the console mid match and stormed out of the room. Clearly influenced by Ninja.

When will this man's reign of terror end?!?

Kids are easily influenced in the good and the bad. If you think a kid can't become a piece of shit human being by watching a piece of shit streamer then I have a bridge to sell you
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
I dont think it's just ninja to blame. Its allowing your kids to play so many hours of games like fortnite.

My kid went through a massive binge of fortnite. He never really watched ninja, and he was the most triggered. He would scream when he lost. Bash things. He broke a controller. I've never been like this playing games.

I got him off the game. Asked him to come for a walk outside. We ended up having a great walk and I discussed calmly what's not right about that behaviour, that I wouldn't be buying him a new controller and he had to earn it from doing chores.

I explained that he should take pride in his belongings.

He still gets "tilted" on games like apex, even gta online etc. I'm not blaming ninja for this solely. It's a joint effort from the parents too. Allowing so much content to be consumed, without balance.

The problem is the parents letting their kids watch 8 hours a day of this guy imo.

Saying that I dont watch ninja so what do I know, but I find attacking him is like people who used to say violent movies, music or games were bad.
 

PlzUninstall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
563
It's such a shame to see.

I think the problem is that just because it all seems like it's catered to children and that is actively deceiving parents who are maybe not deeply getting involved in what their children consume. Fun graphics for Fortnite but as with all games the online nature of it can expose your child to basically anything and anyone. Ninja is in the same boat.

It's definitely a need for parents to take an interest to vet these things but also down to the platforms to police themselves better (obviously never happening). I personally would never classify Ninja as "child friendly".
 

Linde

Banned
Sep 2, 2018
3,983
that honestly reads like a post from /r/thattotallyhappened or wherever its called
 

BadCop

Member
Dec 31, 2018
9
I think it's obvious that the real problem is that there is a 7 year old playing a violent and ultra competetive video game. There is no way in hell he can deal with that correctly and being gamers or not, it's irresponsible to let him play.
Our daughter can play Mario Kart with me once in a blue moon and sometimes she wants to watch me playing something. But I always make sure that there is no violence against humans involved. Jumping on a goomba's head in Mario is the limit basically.
While it is worrisome that Ninja is speaking to such a young audience, the actual responsibility is in the parent's hands, not in Ninja's. Before the age of twitch, there was bad stuff on TV as well that kids shouldn't watch. Stopping their kids from doing that is the parents' job not Ninja's, not Twitch's. Thtat' how it is.
 

Typhoon20

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,568
Its up to parents to limit these things.


It doesn't really matter if they have parental clearance
They understand the internet better than their parents
Now being the internet, the content's probably uncensored
They're young, so they're malleable and probably unmentored…
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,693
that honestly reads like a post from /r/thattotallyhappened or wherever its called

Yeah I'm not buying this story at all, glad someone else called this out other than taking it like gospel. Was interested to see what streamers/gamers she let her nephew watch but she is unable to name any currently. Says they vetted a bunch over and afternoon and wrote out a list for him but can't remember them so will get back when she finds the list.

At the end of the day it is not Ninja that is at fault here but the parents and enablers of his behaviour. Children need to taught right from wrong, how to behave and that actions have consequences. If they are going to let him play games and watch Youtube and then let his behaviour go unchecked then that's on them.
 

Aztorian

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,456
Yeptube and Twits was a mistake. This really reads like an episode out of Super Nanny. Seriously though, yeah. These people obviously make content for grown-ups but target kids. It's almost like reverse Pokémon.
 

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
I have not the habit to follow any youtuber/twitch or streamer in general... also because when I tried I never really liked how these people become "influencer" in the way they speak and people follow them as the messia. (also because often they say wrong things and never correct themself later... and too often the followers believe in everything they say without having their own idea... but that happens in everyday life)
Sure I will keep an eye on my children when he will grow up.
 

NekoNeko

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
18,521
just from my observation he seems like one of the milder guys among the top streamers, which is frightening.
 

hiro_x

Member
Nov 2, 2017
474
according to one of my aunts, apparently the daughter of my cousin refuses to eat unless she is watching a musical video on her phone, and she is like 4 years old. Sure, they are kiddie songs and basically what most kids watched on TV since decades ago except on the phone, but it's insane how much influence they have over younger generations
My eldest who is turning 7 next month, used to watch TV or youtube when he was younger. He was very disciplined and always listens to me and my wife but we noticed behavioral changes whenever he stops watching. We banned watching tv while eating and youtube entirely unless I'm there watching with him. His behavior instantly changed, no more unexplained tantrums just by restricting youtube kids. He still watches from time to time but the average is around 30 minutes of youtube content a month, and it's mostly about how to do stuff in Pokemon SwSh and Luigis Mansion.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,289
Liverpool, UK
My nephew watches this shit, and on the one hand - he derives a lot of his enthusiasm from it - he was telling me how the tactical shotgun has changed in season 2, who the best players are, what he likes to do in the game, which is all actually kind of adorable - he's just geeking out on the game, but I've seen him watching some of the morons who stream (I couldn't give you names either, and that's because I can't bring myself to care about who they are)... He definitely absorbs and conforms to a lot of the standard behaviour that you see on streams or when he's actually playing himself. In some respects it's probably not all that different from the teabagging and griefing - the meltdowns that have always happened in games - in arena shooters or Team Fortress or whatever - but I do wonder if the mass rollout of voice chat and streaming has commodified and normalised some of the toxic behaviour you get in competitive shooters. He's has to be told quite sternly what is ok and what is not ok.

My sister is quite good at yanking him off his Xbox if he gets out of line or has disappeared in to the game for too long but I've seen him have a tantrum myself and it's absolutely stupid... He knows it's stupid as well. When he calms down he realises he shouldn't have gotten so upset. That's the one encouraging thing. I read Ninja's "weak mindset" comment the other day and it doesn't even hold up for me in the sense of being an aspirational or inspirational sort of comment. Thinks he's a fuckin' Olympian and a philosopher because he plays videogames for an audience of tweens. I'm used to seeing the words Never Settle on clothing and on the Instagram stories of people trying to cheer themselves up after a breakup or something..

While seeking the best for yourself is an admirable sentiment, advocating temper tantrums is a ridiculous position to take and counter to the philosophy of sportsmanship. People do want to win, aggressively so - but the best players also shake hands, congratulate winners and be magnanimous in victory, commiserate losing sides - and admit someone had a great game - through gritted teeth if they have to - because that's what it means to be a decent person - it IS just a game.

On the flip side - when my nephew is having a good game and is patting himself on the back for being "sick", it can be kind of funny to listen to. We burst out laughing the other week because he said, unironically, while playing: "I am a God".

He's a smart kid, he realised what he'd said was boastful / lacking in humility and laughed along too. Which is good.. Confidence is one thing but God help any kids who go to secondary school saying shit like that.

I feel sorry for parents having to navigate this shit. Yes the responsibility for teaching right and wrong is on them, as is the responsibility to not let them disappear for hours on end - to be part-time parented by streams and videogames - but the climate today is one in which thats exactly what kids want, and what their friends are doing.

I'm expecting my first child in June, and I'm both looking forward to fatherhood and the joy of it all, the innocence of childhood, being able to give and provide and share vicariously in all the fun that kids naturally have - but I'm also already dreading the influence of absolute nob ends on the internet. I might join some kind of cord cutting tribe or something.
 
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Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,054
More than the Ninja thing I wonder why a seven year old plays shooters - and online shooters at that. I think this is much worse than the watching Ninja thing.
 

Dizzy Ukulele

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,013
It's not hard to believe that any child would be better off having Twitch taken away from them.

As comforting as it would have been at the time, I dread to think of the damage done to someone like me if I'd spent my evenings watching Ninja after coming home from school. To some it's become their life, their community and what they aspire to be as an adult. Junk food for the mind. It will result in countless more victims than success stories.

It almost feels weird now to think that I managed to go out and play and explore most days.
 

dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,376
Its up to parents to limit these things.
I whole heartily agree. It doesn't really excuse people like Ninja having such a negative behaviour, like it or not, Twitch is one of this generation's references, and I'm sure there are plenty of twitchers who are more wholesome and better role models.

Hell if I know.

I just watch Twitch for tournaments and to see games I'm interested in.
 

shuno

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
625
This is so weird. First, it's an unknown twitter account without any reach or blue checkmark, so it's a questionable source to begin with, second they paint themselves as something good -- after the baddy streamer ruined their nephews life -- while they let him play and teach him how to properly play a game that is not suited for his age. Shitstains. Parents (obv) and uncle/aunts failed here, not the streamer nor the child.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,289
Liverpool, UK
First, it's an unknown twitter account without any reach or blue checkmark, so it's a questionable source to begin with,

While I don't disagree with the broad strokes of what you said - I don't think we should be validating what people say based on whether they have enough followers or a blue checkmark on Twatter. They reached us just fine.

You may or may not be surprised to learn that there are plenty of disingenuous and horrible scumbags on that platform who have a nice blue tick.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,682
Kids as being brought up by these idiots on YiuTube and Twitch.

The jokes... the phrases.. the politics...

All becomes ingrained.
 

shuno

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
625
While I don't disagree with the broad strokes of what you said - I don't think we should be validating what people say based on whether they have enough followers or a blue checkmark on Twatter. They reached us just fine.

You may or may not be surprised to learn that there are plenty of disingenuous and horrible scumbags on that platform who have a nice blue tick.

I think you're right... still, the thing is, if someone posts something like this (the source) with a rumor about some new fancy game, it would get closed and would not deemed worth to discuss about.
 

Suicide King

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
AT A COMPETITIVE LEVEL...

I get that people really - REALLY - want to read negative shit into literally everything the guy says, but he's clearly not talking about casual gamers with that rant. He plays competitively and at a high tier of play, and you don't get there without being upset if you lose and wanting to get better.

And that goes in all competitive sports - take the NHL, for example, and this guy.



You know what he's doing now? Not playing in the NHL. He never managed to be better than a pretty good backup, but never for long streaks - he wasn't mentally tough enough to battle through real adversity or even just a string of tough luck.

Moneyball had a GREAT example:


If you're ok with losing, you're not going to be one of the best in the world at whatever competitive thing you set you're mind to. In competitive sports - including esports - if you're ok with losing, you're not going to hang at the top levels because that's where the crazy dedicated people are - the Kobe Bryants and Michael Jordans of the world who'll practice in pre-season like it's the final game of the playoffs and who'll do everything they can to win because they cannot stand losing.

Obviously you shouldn't be throwing your controller if you're just sitting on your couch playing CoD in pickup groups, but that's the difference between casual and competitive.

Counterpoint:


I understand that losing when you are being paid to win can be a complicated issue, but it's also part of the act of competing. And if your response to losing is telling other players to kill themselves, or if you think you should tell children to be mad when they lose, well... maybe you should reevaluate what is more important in your life.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
It genuinely frightens me how many young children are just absorbing hours of YouTube and twitch.
Our kids (6 & 4) aren't allowed Youtube, except for a few VERY short and supervised sessions. There is a lot of unsuitable stuff pretending to be kids content, and even the "wholesome" stuff is absolute mind-rot. It is just flashing colours and shouting.
 

Galactor

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
619
Tolerating frustration is a life skill well beyond videogames, and kids love boundaries, they don't want weak mindset parents that can be manipulated. More power to caregivers and tough, but not cruel, LOVE.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,833
Streamers make visible the behaviour ultra high-competitive athletes have had for decades. One can imagine how Cristiano Ronaldo is during training, but just that. With Ninja and the like, you are watching it live.

Like any other content, streams should be curated in the age department, just like games, movies and TV shows are.
 

Gans

Member
Oct 27, 2017
699
The more I read those tweets the more fake they look, literally feels like I'm reading a fully made up story and can't put my finger on why.

I really couldn't care less about Ninja, but I'm aware he tried to become more "family friendly". On the other end of the spectrum there's other channels fully consumed by kids that are plain horrible, maybe he shouldn't be the main target for the hate (some of it feels like personal vendetta against the dude).
 
Oct 26, 2017
244
Desert Land
I'm a dad of two and we have banned YouTube because of the terrible content control, I wouldn't even dream of letting my kids watch a live twitch feed.

That's not the biggest issue here either, why let your 7 year old play a game where you have to shoot people to win?

I don't watch twitch myself so I'm not invested there but surely people should be responsible for their own kids.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,062
I believed it up until the end. No seven year old is going to stop for a "solid minute" and write down what he could do better.

Banning him and then the child subconsciously realizing that he shouldn't rage? Sure. But the end is a big o' r/thathappened