-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Ok ERA where do you fall on the rights of Photographers? Hillary Duff calls Photographer creep for shooting Childs soccer game.
- Thread starter TheGhost
- Start date
- Status
If you dont know any of the kids and you aren't with a local paper it does seem suspicious. But I would talk to the coaches and refs to let them know what you're doing.
But I've experienced much worse. I was at a 6 flags many years ago in line for the superman ride. A bunch of us were wtfing at this dude with a telephoto lens taking dozens of pictures of a water park full of kids several hundred feet away. Looking back having picked up photography as a hobby since, there's no legitimate reason to take photos with a telephoto lens at a distance over a high quality 85mm portrait lens unless you are trying to avoid being seen.
But I've experienced much worse. I was at a 6 flags many years ago in line for the superman ride. A bunch of us were wtfing at this dude with a telephoto lens taking dozens of pictures of a water park full of kids several hundred feet away. Looking back having picked up photography as a hobby since, there's no legitimate reason to take photos with a telephoto lens at a distance over a high quality 85mm portrait lens unless you are trying to avoid being seen.
Actually, I'd be annoyed at her too. I'm annoyed at anyone taking photos around me even if they're not OF me. It's not illegal and there's literally nothing I can do about it, but just as it's your right to take the pictures, it's my right to feel you're being annoying.Holy fuck some of these takes in this thread...Era members really in here saying the black man should kindly ask these white people if he can exercise his 1A rights????
Nothing creepy about someone not hiding and practicing their photography, hell parents should have just been chill and introduced themselves like civil people, asked a few kind questions if they were worried to put their kind at ease and probably could have scored some great pictures of their kids game but nope...
Would everyone in here trying to shit on this guy even bat an eye at this lady doing the same?
Holy fuck some of these takes in this thread...Era members really in here saying the black man should kindly ask these white people if he can exercise his 1A rights????
Nothing creepy about someone not hiding and practicing their photography, hell parents should have just been chill and introduced themselves like civil people, asked a few kind questions if they were worried to put their kind at ease and probably could have scored some great pictures of their kids game but nope...
Would everyone in here trying to shit on this guy even bat an eye at this lady doing the same?
I wouldn't be particularly bothered personally but if you are going to take pictures of someone's kids it's probably best to ask first. Black man or white woman.
OP
OP
Nope they would have asked for her website so they can download the pictures.Holy fuck some of these takes in this thread...Era members really in here saying the black man should kindly ask these white people if he can exercise his 1A rights????
Nothing creepy about someone not hiding and practicing their photography, hell parents should have just been chill and introduced themselves like civil people, asked a few kind questions if they were worried to put their kind at ease and probably could have scored some great pictures of their kids game but nope...
Would everyone in here trying to shit on this guy even bat an eye at this lady doing the same?
I think if anything he could've gone to the organisers of the game just to make sure it's okay but I don't see what he did as wrong. It's not like he was taking creep shots of them in the park, they're playing football.
If your in public your in public. I think you give up any reasonable claim to privacy once you step into public.
This would be a different matter if he were stalking a specific kid or something but dude is taking pictures of a public event.
This would be a different matter if he were stalking a specific kid or something but dude is taking pictures of a public event.
Probably not, but that's just the culture we live in and it's not going to change anytime soon.
As a parent looking for nanny's to hire for my kids, there are very few men out there offering their services (like 1%), and the ones we do see we skip over because of our ingrained cultural perception of men and children.
Do you get annoyed at drive thrus or banks or any store in existence? Cause they are all taking constant images of you, do you get annoyed at the other parents taking pictures there that you are in?
Perfectly okay to be annoyed with you picture being taken but it's well within their rights, it's 2020 if you don't want your picture and data out there you need to live in a cave.
Again we are putting a shitton of responsibility on the wronged party here, should he have to go introduce himself and ask everyone at the game beforehand? What about people walking by? None of this makes it okay to threaten this guy and go after him like she did.
*Ding ding ding*
I don't think it's unreasonable to introduce yourself first. Maybe set it up with the team first. I wouldn't take a picture of a stranger's kid without asking because you pick the wrong kid and things go badly.
Like I said, I personally wouldn't care permission asked or not. I don't believe many predatory paedophiles are out there in broad daylight taking pictures of kids playing sport with expensive cameras.
And I agree that all the stuff she did was unjustified and much worse than not asking permission.
Not really a good comparison. Whether I agree with it or not, stored and banks can at least justify why they're taking pictures, for security and to prevent criminal activity. Other parents can justify why they're taking pictures, because their own kids are there.
This guys justification was "It's not illegal". To most parents, some guy taking pictures of their kids just because he can would be more concerning than another parent accidentally capturing them in photos of their own kids.
He doesn't need to justify his rights to you or anyone else though, "It's not illegal" isn't him trying to justify himself it's him trying to defend himself from a lady getting up in his business and harassing him.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary Around Racism
This is a gender issue not a race issue.
A white man would get the same reaction except without the defense force. Society have just programmed us to assume every adult male who likes non related kids is a predator.
If this was a woman, no one would care.
A white man would get the same reaction except without the defense force. Society have just programmed us to assume every adult male who likes non related kids is a predator.
If this was a woman, no one would care.
I am suspicious of how much she reacted and how she essentially put a man on blast to her followers...
But I also don't know many parents who would be cool with a man and a camera unaffiliated with them to do a photo shoot of their kids playing...
I looked up the Jennifer Garner law about photographing kids but it's not very strict so it seems hard to enforce
www.today.com
But I also don't know many parents who would be cool with a man and a camera unaffiliated with them to do a photo shoot of their kids playing...
I looked up the Jennifer Garner law about photographing kids but it's not very strict so it seems hard to enforce
California enacts law to protect celebrities' children from paparazzi
A California bill aimed at keeping paparazzi away from the children of celebrities and supported by film stars and parents Halle Berry and Jennifer Garner was signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown on Tuesday.Brown, a Democrat who dated rock singer Linda Ronstadt during his first stint as...
www.today.com
Paparazzi take pics of celebs with their families all the time, she's just shaming this man for doing his job.
That and those big, gaudy cameras are just something I don't like being around. I'm sure somebody would make the argument about security cameras being "hidden" is even worse, but unless it's a freakin' button camera (which they never are if they're official), I have no problem with it. It's actually not so much the camera that's the problem as it is the actual person behind the camera. Too often, it feels like them looking through a lens has cut them off from the people around them. That can happen with a big "$4K" camera or a smartphone (or worse and iPad...). We actually see that on both sides in this very interaction...neither party gives a shit because they've got a camera...one because "it's legal" and the other because they've got influence.
Just remember the people you're taking photos of aren't just scenery or things...they're people so have the decency to treat them like one. I'm not saying Duff was right in her reaction specifically and should've handled it better, but I agree with the feelings BEHIND that reaction.
I don't agree with the way she approached the situation but I can't say her concern is unwarranted. A guy with no relationship with the team or any of the kids playing taking photos and when asked why responded with "it's legal" is concerning. People are allowed to be concerned about something like that, but I don't agree at all with the way she approached it.
Rights doesn't matter. It's many Americans rights to walk around with an assault rifle strapped to them, but I can still disagree with that and Im allowed to be uncomfortable with that. Rights or no rights, a lot of parents will understandably not want a complete stranger taking photographs of their children and I don't blame them for wanting to see what his deal is. I don't agree with her threatening him with her instagram followers, I think that's much shittier than what he was doing, but it's a bit silly to pretend like parents should be totally fine with a complete stranger photographing their kids because "it's legal".
OP
OP
A grown stranger taking pictures of little kids from distance and then being furtive about his camera is definitely eyebrow-raising.
If a parent asks you not to do it, a normal person says "Ok," instead of playing at Clarence Darrow.
If a parent asks you not to do it, a normal person says "Ok," instead of playing at Clarence Darrow.
User Banned (2 weeks): Dismissive commentary around racism
yeah, this. a lot of the people jumping to conclusions implying hillary duff is racist is super messed up. also, she deals with a lot of invasion of privacy herself - which she has to deal with. but im sure when it comes to her kids being photographed, it makes her EXTREMELY uncomfortable.
I agree that's most likely the case but no one there has any of knowing that. He's a stranger. I wouldn't feel comfortable with someone I know absolutely nothing about taking photos with my kids. I have no way of knowing who he is or what he does for a living without approaching him.
OP
OP
How is it any different than the stranger with the cell phone next to you?
For people in america, sure. But I certainly have expectation of privacy, even in public settings.
If someone was obviously taking pictures of my kids on their cellphone I'd approach them too.
If a stranger was taking pics of me with their phone without asking, that's often called a creep shot. Legality and ethics aren't the same. There's lots of invasive things you can do to people and not be on the hook. There's a million places in the world you could legally go photograph someone's cultural or friendly gathering that you're not a part of, but if they ask you to stop and you escalate to defiance about legality, you're in the wrong.
Imagine you're at a picnic with some friends and a person is standing taking photos of you with their phone. Are you allowed to be upset?
OP
OP
Oh I would stop if someone asked. I would not stop if someone came over trying to be a tough guy or what she is doing here using it as a opportunity to get clicks.
No matter what one thinks about either of them, this most likely wouldn't have happened if he wasn't black.
I take pictures at my daughter's performances all the time. There's nothing to identify that I'm anyone's dad, it's just assumed/not a big deal to anyone.
I'd bet money on her reaction being racist.
Sure. You can get upset if someone looks at you funny if you want.
Nothing you can do but ask them to quit though. They don't have to listen to you either...so.....
I take pictures at my daughter's performances all the time. There's nothing to identify that I'm anyone's dad, it's just assumed/not a big deal to anyone.
I'd bet money on her reaction being racist.
Sure. You can get upset if someone looks at you funny if you want.
Nothing you can do but ask them to quit though. They don't have to listen to you either...so.....
I don't think a single person in this thread has disagreed with you on that. No one has said she handled it well, unless I missed it?
Speaking from experience as a white dad, at least twice I've been approached while watching my kids play in the park by someone trying to work out why I was there. This is a gender issue, not a race one.
Funny, I thought "they" were guilty before I even opened the thread and saw the photo. I had no idea if they were male, female, white, black, or anything other than a "photographer". I'll be 100% honest and admit to my racial and sexist biases and say that I absolutely expected a white guy, probably in his 20 or 30s, so I was basically pissed at myself as the photographer.
man or woman, there wouldn't even be a video if he was white. she would have assumed that he 'belonged' there.
He was defiant about stopping before she even once implied she would then spread her video. He retorted about being legally allowed immediately instead of something decent to make her understand his position to continue or stop. Her reaction escalated too far, but I can't say he had any decency in discussing the issue itself.
There's every chance she wouldn't have bothered posting this if the encounter was simply him saying, "Sure, I just came to the field to practice on this camera, I can check out a different field." Instead if she was suspicious before about him knowing famous people had kids there, she sure might still feel that way after his response.
Yeahhh taking photos at a kids game and you have no connection to any of the children is creepy as fuck. I would definitely have a problem with this too, I don't give a fuck what color you are don't take pictures of my kids when you don't know them and then say it's not illegal.
In this case it's most likely both.
As a white dad who has full custody of his daughters, and was a single dad for 2 years, I'd tell the person to get lost. I've never been approached by anyone in my over 12 years as a parent.
What idiot thinks dads don't exist?
My daughter is in a thousand activities and as a rule, people (parents, sponsors, etc) tend to avoid taking pictures of children that aren't their own unless asking the parents first. Events that are going to have a professional typically will have a media release the parents have to sign.
I don't know what you're trying to prove here. It hasn't happened to you so it has to be a racist issue? It happens to white dads, it's happened to me and at least 1 other white dad I know. Everyone knows dads exist, the problem is people have this preconceived notion to think that a man who is seemingly by himself around a bunch of children is a pervert. It's messed up and is definitely an issue but it's not a racial issue. I don't think there's anything wrong with politely asking someone why they're there and why they're taking photos when there's kids involved.
There's a lot to unpack here, but I find is especially unsettling that she decided to project this out to her fucking 14 million+ supporters so she could have an angry, biased mob behind her. I think anybody taking photos of others (especially kids) should give a courtesy heads-up to the folks there, but rallying the legion of supporters is such a pathetic move from Hillary.
This is a false dichotomy, not all cameras are the same, there's a world of difference between static cameras taking surveillance footage and a photographer taking individual shots. A tiny amount of surveillance footage is ever viewed by a human and individual people are not subjects in the same way when a person is not behind the camera. There are different expectations of privacy, or the lack thereof, and thus people react differently depending on the specific circumstances of the situation.
Really. There is so much fallacious logic in this thread it's insane. If you're ONLY appeal is to legality than both of them are blameless. It's just as legal to film him as it is for him to take the photos.
If she's in the wrong than you have to appeal to morality / decency. And if you do that then you gotta admit taking pictures of other people's kids and then getting defensive when you're told it's making people uncomfortable is not OK.
FWIW I am almost certain she would not have noticed or approached him if he was a white guy, and she absolutely overshot the mark by filming and posting the interaction. But that doesn't absolve the dude of doing weird stuff and being generally disrespectful of his subjects' wishes.
And to the "no expectation of privacy" crowd: can you honestly say with a straight face that you'd be 100% ok with someone standing near you at the park just photographing your children with a professional long-range lens? Really? If you can, well, consider becoming an actor or a politician....
- Status