Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
How when according to some claims in the Xbox first party thread the worst Xbox console will be at least a match of the PS5 (for possibly cheaper) and 2nd console will be more powerful (and possibly more expensive or same price as PS5 depending on how aggressive Microsoft is with pricing)?

People can claim whatever they want, fact if the matter is neither one of them knows what the other is actually doing. No way can anyone claim that Microsoft's cheap machine can rival Sony's machine and be cheaper consider the money loss that would entail. This goes back to the same garbage we had before that Microsoft's is just going to write a blank cheque for the Xbox division which is crazy
 
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Wollan

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,824
Norway but living in France
It's almost like you don't know the Xbox One X exists because it certainly isn't being hampered by the Xbox One S.
The Xbox One X released four years later after the baseline was set! Besides it using an ancient CPU the game *design* is defiantly held back from the perspective of the One X as they must be developed with a scope that runs on Xbox One. This is not really an issue here though, consumers are buying into it knowing it's a mid-gen refresh.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,206

Great article eventhough it's based on speculations over the general ideas we got today about the PS5. I think at the time of writing the article, the author wasn't aware that a Naughty Dog artist stated that ray tracing is hardware based and not software based. I really hope that he will consider updating his article to elucidate the info.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
People can claim whatever they want, fact if the matter is neither one of them knows what the other is actually doing. No way can anyone claim that Microsoft's cheap machine can rival Sony's machine and be cheaper consider the money loss that would entail. This goes back to the same garbage we had before that Microsoft's is just going to write a blank cheque for the Xbox division which is crazy
As far as we all know the Xbox consoles have never turned a profit so this isn't anything new. I can see it happening. A lot of other people can too.
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
I want Bloodborne 2 so bad.
Don't we all? :(

How when according to some claims in the Xbox first party thread the worst Xbox console will be at least a match of the PS5 (for possibly cheaper) and 2nd console will be more powerful (and possibly more expensive or same price as PS5 depending on how aggressive Microsoft is with pricing)?
I keep seeing this wishful thinking from the same 2 or 3 posters in this thread lol. You might wanna wait for the reality of the situation because all you're doing is posting rumors anybody can come up with.
 

grosbard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
People can claim whatever they want, fact if the matter is neither one of them knows what the other is actually doing. No way can anyone claim that Microsoft's cheap machine can rival Sony's machine and be cheaper consider the money loss that would entail. This goes back to the same garbage we had before that Microsoft's is just going to write a blank cheque for the Xbox division which is crazy

With all of the studio purchases, a blank check isn't too far fetched.
 

Shin-Ra

Member
Nov 1, 2017
671
What is needed to take advantage of 3D Audio?
So, this 360 audio thing. Has it been mentioned if you'll need special headphones for this, like the Sony Gold virtual surround sound thing? Or does the fact that it has dedicated internal hardware mean that I'll be able to enjoy this with any old pair of headphones?
WIRED said:
The AMD chip also includes a custom unit for 3D audio that Cerny thinks will redefine what sound can do in a videogame. "As a gamer," he says, "it's been a little bit of a frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4. With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it."

The result, Cerny says, will make you feel more immersed in the game as sounds come at you from above, from behind, and from the side. While the effect will require no external hardware—it will work through TV speakers and virtual surround sound—he allows that the "gold standard" will be headphone audio.
The 3D audio is processed internally by PS5 according to the software-selected output device (and any extra info you give about your setup), so TV speakers, home theatre or ideally stereo headphones.

IF it's an extension of Sony and Fraunhofer IIS' 360 Reality Audio, there should be an app that lets you photograph and then shape match the contours of your ears for further optimised headphone audio processing.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,935
I'm in.

They were obviously always going to have to BC, but this seals it.

High Speed SSD is awesome - curious on what the size is going to be though.

Won't be surprised if they go $500 this time around due to BC and fast memory.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,206
Sorry if posted already:



Considering Spider-Man had great loading screenings, it seems dumb to be fast

Maybe for other games with just a blank screen

Wth? Those scenes of the trains of loading times were quite entertaining and they were added to make players wait while having a smile. Now it's completely scrapped. This kinda kills the fun. This reminds me of old PC games that current Pcs can't handle very well since now they can run at hundreds of FPS which make dialogues or cutscenes go insane so we have to download some kind of third party tools to slow them down. Same when you enabled accleration on PS2 for PS1 games, games like Silent Hill get their cutscenes and dialogues rushed to the extent of becoming scary so players had to deactivate such feature. If games aren't optimised for PS5 by the devs themselves then brute forcing them may end up with unwanted results. :/
Better keep your PS4 and PS4 Pro just in case.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
They will still be hampering their own upper-level hardware in this case, within their own ecosystem. Releasing two-tiers on the same day at the onset of a generational shift is the strangest thing.

People pushing this notion really don't understand scalability.

Let me try and explain it one more time for you folks.

Let's say horizon ZD 2 launches in 2021 for PS5 it is native 4k 30fps on a 12tflop PS5.

Now for the sake of argument, Somone gave guriella games a PS5 that is identical but has a 6tflop gpu,

Horizon 2 would work exactly the same but at 1440p, no cutbacks other than resolution.
Resolution scales with gpu power, this is just mathematical fact.
 

Toni

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
1,983
Orlando, Florida
I never doubted PS4 BC. As PSN keeps expanding as the biggest console gaming ecosystem on the planet with 91 million active monthly users & Network Services pulling record numbers, it would be irrational to leave that userbase behind.

Very happy to hear about it though. PS4 generation was the period where I bought more games than ever before. The fact we'll be playing Bloodborne on a beastly PS5 Boost Mode soon is crazy to think about.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,004
London
Wth? Those scenes of the trains of loading times were quite entertaining and they were added to make players wait while having a smile. Now it's completely scrapped. This kinda kills the fun. This reminds me of old PC games that current Pcs can't handle very well since now they can run at hundreds of FPS which make dialogues or cutscenes go insane so we have to download some kind of third party tools to slow them down. Same when you enabled accleration on PS2 for PS1 games, games like Silent Hill get their cutscenes and dialogues rushed to the extent of becoming scary so players had to deactivate such feature. If games aren't optimised for PS5 by the devs themselves then brute forcing them may end up with unwanted results. :/
Better keep your PS4 and PS4 Pro just in case.

This has nothing to do with frame-rates though. It's just showing the difference in loading from point A to B.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Don't we all? :(


I keep seeing this wishful thinking from the same 2 or 3 posters in this thread lol. You might wanna wait for the reality of the situation because all you're doing is posting rumors anybody can come up with.

Sorry I caused offence I didn't realise this wasn't the right place to talk about that. I'll stop mentioning Xbox now.
 

Shin-Ra

Member
Nov 1, 2017
671
The idea that someone would rather watch a dozen quick-travel scenes with ugly late-loading textures repeatedly instead of getting on with playing the game immediately disturbs me.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,206
This has nothing to do with frame-rates though. It's just showing the difference in loading from point A to B.

I know. I was just mentioning how stronger hardware may tamper the experience of some games that were designed for a dedicated weaker hardware. Stronger and faster don't always mean better in every occasion and especially by default. A human intervention or a little control to equilibrate such sitautions is welcome tbh. Wiser is the ultimate judge.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
People pushing this notion really don't understand scalability.

Let me try and explain it one more time for you folks.

Let's say horizon ZD 2 launches in 2021 for PS5 it is native 4k 30fps on a 12tflop PS5.

Now for the sake of argument, Somone gave guriella games a PS5 that is identical but has a 6tflop gpu,

Horizon 2 would work exactly the same but at 1440p, no cutbacks other than resolution.
Resolution scales with gpu power, this is just mathematical fact.
The problem would arise when there are other differentiators. Like SSD and CPU. CPU is a well known game changer but the SSD difference is more than just loading times as told by Cerny. In Spiderman's case, His maximum speed is literally held back because it was design to load the game world on a standard 5400 rpm HDD.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,004
London
I know. I was just mentioning how stronger hardware may tamper the experience of some games that were designed for a dedicated weaker hardware. Stronger and faster don't always mean better in every occasion and especially by default. A human intervention or a little control to equilibrate such sitautions is welcome tbh. Wiser is the ultimate judge.

I think it's safe to assume that Sony will stick with target frame-rates on PS5. I don't expect to see anything more than better load times, image quality and AF.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I never doubted PS4 BC. As PSN keeps expanding as the biggest console gaming ecosystem on the planet with 91 million active monthly users & Network Services pulling record numbers, it would be irrational to leave that userbase behind.

Very happy to hear about it though. PS4 generation was the period where I bought more games than ever before. The fact we'll be playing Bloodborne on a beastly PS5 Boost Mode soon is crazy to think about.

Still will be 30fps unless From bother to uncap the FPS. Luckily all the performance related issues should be ironed out just by the hardware grunt
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
You are presuming the difference is purely in GPU performance (which might still hold back ambitions like physics in multi-player or GPU compute heavy games). And not with memory, CPU, storage...

Did you even read my post?

The problem would arise when there are other differentiators. Like SSD and CPU. CPU is a well known game changer but the SSD difference is more than just loading times as told by Cerny. In Spiderman's case, His maximum speed is literally held back because it was design to load the game world on a standard 5400 rpm HDD.

True, which why I said everything would need to be identical apart from the gpu....
 

Rurouni

Member
Dec 25, 2017
1,387
I think i asked this question before but please please PLEASE someone tell me that it'll be possible for BC PS4 games to utilize the PS4 Pro patches with improved performances gains on PS5 (like fps performance modes for example) based on what we know so far.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2
Yeah, to all those people thinking about SSHDs as opposed to a true, blue SSD, I think, with this I/O, we'd run into a bottle neck because of the HDD having to pass data to its cache, sincer it's a lot more expensive to attach cache to a HDD to form an SSHD, and a separate cache (a la Optane), would still have to deal with SATA speeds until you reach the cache.. I think, like a few others have said, that we're looking at a combination of PCIe 4, an optimized bus, and maybe even a on-board NAND controller. And that's also not getting into stuff like file system formatting, instruction set optimization, and data access methods.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
?? I said the same things and made the same point as Hate. :)

Yeah I don't get why your bringing these things up when I said everything has to be the same apart from GPU.
Makes no sense to reply with something that I already said.

Also you say I'm presuming that differences are purely GPU, which would not matter if everything else in the system is the same, you would of known this if you read my post.


Nothing is amused.
I wonder why.
 
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gattotimo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,058
Sounds like PS will still be my go to gaming platform next gen. Not that I had any doubt, but it's nice to be reassured and to not read anywhere in the main bullet points 'streaming', 'crossplay' or 'multiplayer focused'. Keep going Sony, you have my sword. And wallet
 

Orion

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,922
(Great avatar, almost done with the first game and it's amazing!)

Also relieved to hear my PS4 collection will survive the transition. Would be cool if they can be optimised like X titles too! Horizon at 60fps would be amazing.

Thanks haha, and welcome to the love of Trails! There's no escape once it gets its hooks in you.

But yeah I'm interested to see how my old games will look and run on PS5 since I never upgraded to Pro. I actually just played Horizon for the first time and was impressed enough with how beautiful it was on just my basic PS4 lol.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
True, which why I said everything would need to be identical apart from the gpu....

I think there lies my skepticism with it. I doubt GPU power will be the only thing that differentiates the two models of Xbox especially if the rumors are true and one will be cheap and another will be really high end.

In any case, exciting times ahead. Damn E3 can't come soon enough so we can rest this case lol.
 

Nothing

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,095
Raytracing isn't really a thing. Not unless you have a really high-end setup. No one wants to play Battlefield 1 on PC at HALF the frame rate just to enable really nice real-time lighting and reflections.

The goal with these systems is to be able to hit 4K 60fps. Not to do that and then nearly cut it in half again.

The current legitimate raytracing RTX GPUs go for $700-$1350 right now too btw. Apparently lots of people think everything is going to magically be 1/3 the price in about one year from now.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
Raytracing isn't really a thing. Not unless you have a really high-end setup. No one wants to play Battlefield 1 on PC at HALF the frame rate just to enable really nice real-time lighting and reflections.

The goal with these systems is to be able to hit 4K 60fps. Not to do that and then nearly cut it in half again.

The current legitimate raytracing RTX GPUs go for $700-$1350 right now too btw. Apparently lots of people think everything is going to magically be 1/3 the price in about one year from now.
While that's true, we're also judging this on a handful of games that just slapped rtx late. If rtx will be present on the PS5 and the next Xbox, we can at least see devs get better at utilizing the tech. While we won't see 4k 60fps with RT on, It will be better than what we see games perform right now.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I think there lies my skepticism with it. I doubt GPU power will be the only thing that differentiates the two models of Xbox especially if the rumors are true and one will be cheap and another will be really high end.

In any case, exciting times ahead. Damn E3 can't come soon enough so we can rest this case lol.

Im not sure on this but I'm pretty sure lower resolutions don't require as much ram, so if this is true, slightly less ram would also not effect the game aside it being a lower resolution.
 

Other

Member
Oct 28, 2017
152
I look forward to perma-crunching studios using the naturally faster loading as a crutch to avoid having to tighten up load times
 

Ravage

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,536
I'll bet that the 3d audio chip is going to use the reality audio tech Sony was showing off at CES for music.

Yup that's my guess too. We already know that the tech works great, my only concern is the adoption by 3rd parties. Dolby Atmos will definitely be the standard for all games in the PS5 generation, I just hope the 'porting' process is seamless and more importantly, MANDATORY.

PS4 BC + visual upgrade, near-zero load time, 3D Audio...most of us will buy a PS5 for these alone. Sony still have loads more to reveal - network/service, PS NOW integration, Dualshock 5, PSVR2 (love how they confirmed PSVR BC) and (most importantly) next-gen exclusives to melt our eyeballs.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Raytracing isn't really a thing. Not unless you have a really high-end setup. No one wants to play Battlefield 1 on PC at HALF the frame rate just to enable really nice real-time lighting and reflections.

The goal with these systems is to be able to hit 4K 60fps. Not to do that and then nearly cut it in half again.

The current legitimate raytracing RTX GPUs go for $700-$1350 right now too btw. Apparently lots of people think everything is going to magically be 1/3 the price in about one year from now.

Lol
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,375
Did anyone catch the weird statement by Cerny when he was talking about regular ssd load times stating it takes him 15 seconds to switch from word to excel. Did anyone think this was bullcrap?
 

ThaNotoriousSOD

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
802
Sounds amazing, but for those of you more technically sophisticated than i am... do you see those specs at $399 come fall 2020?
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,993
Yup that's my guess too. We already know that the tech works great, my only concern is the adoption by 3rd parties. Dolby Atmos will definitely be the standard for all games in the PS5 generation, I just hope the 'porting' process is seamless and more importantly, MANDATORY.

PS4 BC + visual upgrade, near-zero load time, 3D Audio...most of us will buy a PS5 for these alone. Sony still have loads more to reveal - network/service, PS NOW integration, Dualshock 5, PSVR2 (love how they confirmed PSVR BC) and (most importantly) next-gen exclusives to melt our eyeballs.

Oh I think Sony's plans for 3D audio are quite large. Keep in mind Sony just bought Audiokinetic, makers of Wwise, which is used in the creation of audio for hundreds of games that're released each year. My guess is that they'll integrate 360 Reality Audio tech (which is software based) into Wwise so all titles can support it, then they'll utilize the tech in this chip to give the PS5 a leg up over any other platform that can't take advantage of 360 Reality Audio. That alone would skyrocket them well past Dolby Atmos in terms of supported titles.
 

Nothing

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,095
Did anyone catch the weird statement by Cerny when he was talking about regular ssd load times stating it takes him 15 seconds to switch from word to excel. Did anyone think this was bullcrap?
Well, seeing as it takes me about 2 seconds to switch from closing one and opening the other, and that involves manual clicking and mouse cursor aiming hmmmm
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Really curious what specs are out there for the current dev kits...

" (The devkit, an early "low-speed" version, is concealed in a big silver tower, with no visible componentry.)"

I know it's standard practice to keep the dev kits less powerful initially but it should give us the lower bound specs to expect.