hikarutilmitt

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,573
The article starts with "a loadtime-killing solid-state hard drive.", and the fact that Cerny is saying "faster than anything on PC" leads me to think that this is not a real SSD, just a good customized version of something cheaper.
They won't give a 200gb high perf SSD, especially since PS4 games would still have to be installed.

The Spiderman example is coming from a 5400rpm HDD. It's not a surprising improvement.
"Hard Drive" doesn't necessarily mean that. We still occasionally see articles say Blu-Ray DVD (which is equally infuriating to my technical sensibilities). A 1TB NVMe isn't out of the ball park and, frankly, if that load time is what it is and the amount of RAM is still 8GB, .8 seconds to load everything it needs into RAM sounds just about right for a PCIe 4.0 spec NVMe. NVMe is also getting cheaper faster than 2.5" SATA SSDs did and if this isn't out until next year production hasn't been finalized yet. If we get up to 8GB/s transfers on PCIe 4.0 NVMe, that lines right up with filling the game's memory footprint that quickly. They could even double the RAM by the time production starts and we'd still be, real world, at less than 3 second load times.

That and, frankly, by the time production starts I'm wondering if they can get costs to produce down enough that it can still hit a $400 price point. It's not impossible even if it means taking a smallish loss to keep their hold on market leader.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,397
I have a pro, but I usually keep all the PlayStation's I've ever owned. I just feel like half a grand isn't an attractive price point for the average consumer

It's not an attractive price, but the average consumer is probably not going to be buying a launch console. They'll get it 2+ yrs down the road. Although I think the way prices have been creeping up in general, whether it be PCs, tablets, or smartphones, that people are being conditioned to pay more for things.
 

Calverz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,586
Nothing about streaming.....do you think sony are going to try and set themselves apart next gen rather than directly compete with google and microsoft? Like nintendo have been doing the last 15 off years??
 

Jakartalado

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,320
São Paulo, Brazil
We have a problem.... get Kaz back immediately.

You can't just throw an article like that.... where's the conference? I need to hear Mark Cerny's peaceful voice taking names and making games.

Also... the tech demos. The power point presentation combining every piece of hardware into one powerful beast.

DID I WAKE UP IN HELL? COME ON SONY.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,391
Can anyone remind me the ray-traced games so far?

- Atomic Heart
- BF5
- Control
- Metro Exodus
- SOTTR
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

That is all?

I really hope all those games will get updated for PS5 and add ray-tracing for it.
 
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severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
In Microsoft HQ, you get fined $50 Everytime you utter the word 'kinect'... /Jk
I thought Microsoft had totally abandoned Kinect (and they have on Xbox) but I was surprised to learn they used a "version 3" in the Hololens and have a "version 4" (which is twice as good) that they are selling as "Kinect Azure" that is also used in Hololens 2.
 

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,519
Washington, D.C.
Unlikely. People are going to ask why they don't care about it now and why they didn't start as soon as they were able. They had the last few years of positive BC press and planning the PS5 to try and push out PSX and PS2 compatibility for PS4 (it can't be that hard; they had a SOFTWARE emulator available for the Cell processor in short order) just to convince people that they're serious about that level of BC, rather than say "hey, we're fully committed to letting you play legacy Sony software...on our next console," which is why I don't think we'll see any real effort to expand compatibility with a legacy library outside of existing PS4 titles and anything else that can be played on PS4, which is par for the course, considering the PS3->PS4 generational switch was a hard ecosystem reset.

The PS4 is simply not powerful enough to emulate the cell from the PS3, so they said fuck it to that one. Could they have done PS1 / PS2 BC? Sure. Instead, they decided against it to push their PSNow and PS2 on PS4.

However, this patent strictly talks about the emulation of older CPUs on newer tech:

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019/02/ps5_backwards_compatibility_suggested_by_sony_patent

This patent wouldn't be needed for the PS4 since the PS4 is x86 architecture like the PS5 will be. There's a HUGE chance the PS5 will be able to play older PS games.

It's really just a matter of which ones.
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
I was hoping it would be backwards compatible because the disc drive on my PS4 failed, haha.
 

MZZ

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,425
Dude PS4 BC with improved performance and graphics is a day one sell for me. Just beimg able to replay my ps4 games is enougb to get me started on a new hardware. The new games is a given and something to be excited for but right now I really love my ps4 games and it will be amazing to see them improved.
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
We have a problem.... get Kaz back immediately.

You can't just throw an article like that.... where's the conference? I need to hear Mark Cerny's peaceful voice taking names and making games.

Also... the tech demos. The power point presentation combining every piece of hardware into one powerful beast.

DID I WAKE UP IN HELL? COME ON SONY.

Hardware is not the focus next gen. My guess is there will be a PS5 reveal but cloud services will be the focus. I don't have any inside information but I expect Sony to bring it to Google and Microsoft on that front.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
20,115
I'll bet that the 3d audio chip is going to use the reality audio tech Sony was showing off at CES for music.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
I thought Microsoft had totally abandoned Kinect (and they have on Xbox) but I was surprised to learn they used a "version 3" in the Hololens and have a "version 4" (which is twice as good) that they are selling as "Kinect Azure" that is also used in Hololens 2.
the technology is really cool it just didn't find much of a use in gaming.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
I remember people laughing at "console raytracing" lol
We will see how it turns out in the end but I guess they are also betting on the software stack evolving over years, just like with gpgpu.
And it's not that consoles can't do raytracing at all, every console can and many demos exist for old hardware. The question is how much can they actually do in terms of number of rays and time to finish the tracing in 16 or 33 milliseconds.

Another thing: which SSD does Cerny use if switching between Excel and Word takes him 15 seconds?
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois
Sounds like Sony checked all of the boxes especially on BC, I wonder what games with long load times can benefit from PS5 of the SSD drive? I can think a few off of my head besides Bloodborne

Tekken 7 with it's horrendous load times to fights
Dead or Alive 6
Prey
Witcher 3
Deus Ex Mankind Divided especially when using the train stations
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,436
How do you know that? You have info on Navi that we dont?
The dedicated ray tracing tech in Nvidia GPU's is why they are overpriced, PS5 won't be $800
Also we have pretty much seen Navi leaks, it's Vega with cut down compute & focus in other areas like geometry pushing. AMD like to refresh their same GPU architecture, mainly because they can't afford to revamp it every few years like Nvidia, Nvidia is simply a much bigger company.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
It is known that AMD is far behind Nvidia when it come to raytracing hardware R&D.

I'll wait and see what software/hardware solution AMD came up with. My prediction is that it will handle raytracing worse than a RTX 2060 can.
Oh boy, these hot takes are coming out charred.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
The bullet points above suggest that the SSD solution is allgedely faster than anything so far. But you're saying it's an SSHD. I'm confused. :(

NVME drives are considered a type of SSD.

Even though they use PCIE lanes instead of SATA.

When talking NAND FLASH your talking both SSD/NVME. And it sounds like they have something that goes along more of NVME than a traditional SSD if they can achieve .8ms load times.

WHich is basically almost instant.

QUOTE="Arm Van Dam, post: 19896151, member: 55479"]Sounds like Sony checked all of the boxes especially on BC, I wonder what games with long load times can benefit from PS5 of the SSD drive? I can think a few off of my head besides Bloodborne

Tekken 7 with it's horrendous load times to fights
Dead or Alive 6
Prey
Witcher 3
Deus Ex Mankind Divided especially when using the train stations[/QUOTE]

Umm any game will benefit. Think of map sizes, pop-in, with open world and big online games. Imagine how fast you can load into a map and see it int's complete entirety.

Imagine PUBG with everything loaded when you see the plane, how it is now even on PC, some of the map loads in, and structures load in as you get closer.

I have a really beefy system and still I see pop-in.

This will elevate a lot of this in games that utilize it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,585
Dude PS4 BC with improved performance and graphics is a day one sell for me. Just beimg able to replay my ps4 games is enougb to get me started on a new hardware. The new games is a given and something to be excited for but right now I really love my ps4 games and it will be amazing to see them improved.
Same. Pretty happy about going mostly digital this gen.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,095
We have a problem.... get Kaz back immediately.

You can't just throw an article like that.... where's the conference? I need to hear Mark Cerny's peaceful voice taking names and making games.

Also... the tech demos. The power point presentation combining every piece of hardware into one powerful beast.

DID I WAKE UP IN HELL? COME ON SONY.

This isn't an official reveal, chill.
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
I know but I'm still holding out some hope. They still did sell PS2 games this gen, so if preserving digital catalogs is one of their intentions, hopefully they are at least considering PS1 and PS2 BC.
They've only put out 53 since starting it in November 2015, with the most recent one releasing in June of 2018 (Ace Combat 5 doesn't count, because it was only done as a preorder bonus for Ace Combat 7 and wasn't released separately). That doesn't inspire me with any level of confidence.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
The bullet points above suggest that the SSD solution is allgedely faster than anything so far. But you're saying it's an SSHD. I'm confused. :(
Cf my other post.
People read it as SSD, but given the lack of proper terminology and details, and Cerny saying it's faster than anything on PC (anything??), plus the fact that 500gb is not much to install games on PS4 right now, it's really hard to believe it's a true SSD.
The comparison they made with Spiderman is on a 5400rpm HDD, so everything will be a huge upgrade.
"Hard Drive" doesn't necessarily mean that. We still occasionally see articles say Blu-Ray DVD (which is equally infuriating to my technical sensibilities). A 1TB NVMe isn't out of the ball park and, frankly, if that load time is what it is and the amount of RAM is still 8GB, .8 seconds to load everything it needs into RAM sounds just about right for a PCIe 4.0 spec NVMe. NVMe is also getting cheaper faster than 2.5" SATA SSDs did and if this isn't out until next year production hasn't been finalized yet. If we get up to 8GB/s transfers on PCIe 4.0 NVMe, that lines right up with filling the game's memory footprint that quickly. They could even double the RAM by the time production starts and we'd still be, real world, at less than 3 second load times.

That and, frankly, by the time production starts I'm wondering if they can get costs to produce down enough that it can still hit a $400 price point. It's not impossible even if it means taking a smallish loss to keep their hold on market leader.
But the thing is that it's not just an SSD they would have to take a loss on at 400$. Given the CPU and GPU they're using...
 

Shalashaska

Prophet of Regret
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,449
Sounds interesting. The 3D audio stuff sounds neat and backwards compatibility is good. Nice to hear Zen 2 confirmed as well.

It's cool to hear ray-tracing is going to be included, but at the same time you gotta wonder if the tech is really there yet. The $1300 GTX 2080ti barely runs current gen games at 1080p above 60fps with ray-tracing on, so you gotta wonder how a $500 APU is going to do it. Guess we'll see, Sony/AMD must have some kind of trick up their sleeve.

I also wonder how expandable storage is going to work with this new SSD, since theoretically anything you add will be operating at a much slower speed than the super fast internal one. Hopefully it starts at a large size so it's not a problem for a little bit.

Still, it's exciting to see next gen on the horizon. I'm all aboard the hype train.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,690
No, no no no no no. I was reacting to "it's over" as "battle for next gen is already over and I implied BC with PS1/2/3 games would be a nice addition, not that it was mandatory.

You said "it isn't over until they add PS1-PS3 BC"...

As implying "Battle for next gen is not over until they add BC for PS1-PS3"

To answer our statement that " battle for next gen is over with just PS4 BC"

Maybe there's something lost in translation here ..