Oct 25, 2017
33,471
Atlanta GA
Depends on the game. They already have ESO, no need to make drastic changes to the mainline games.

MS bought them cuz they needed teams and IPs with a history of making curated single player experiences for the most part, the kind of games Sony's studios had a bit of an edge in. Changing the way fans experience those games wouldn't go over well.
 

Uzuzu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
530
Wolfenstein, fallout, and elder scrolls already have gaas entries, but thank for the concern lol
 
Last edited:

Timewarp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
891
I think they will be allowed to make their own decisions, and will be incorporating GaaS elements by their own. People already forget Fallout 76?
 

Tomo815

Banned
Jul 19, 2019
1,534
Maybe I am missing something here,

But isnt it already the case that Fallout76 and Elder Scroll Blades are GaaS? And I quote from Nintendolife review:

" This is a very basic, repetitive grind with an Elder Scrolls skin designed very obviously to tempt you into spending your real-world money on the gems and chests you'll require to get the most from its grubby little representation of the Elder Scrolls universe" (https://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/switch-eshop/elder_scrolls_blades)
 
Last edited:

The Argus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,309
MS didn't buy Bethesda for ID Tech alone. They will keep IPs and gameplay the same. There will be loot boxes and season passes. With or without MS we have seen Bethesda touch on this. Hell weren't there paid mods for Fallout 4? Same goes with Sony games.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Guys, do you know what having 20 GAAS (at least in the way the OP seems to think of them) games means for a platform holder? It means 18 of those aren't going to get played for very long and fail.

Nobody buys like fucking Double Fine to get them to work on Halo as support or some shit.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,418
This is a misread because they already were turned into gaas and multiplayer in large part.

Doom Eternal = new mp mode made by the internal team, weekly challenges, multiple dlc packs, invasion mode coming

Wolfenstein: Youngbloods = coop focussed

Deathloop = multiplayer invasion component

Fallout 76 = mmo

ESO: MMO

Prey dlc = multiplayer

I see no reason they would stop this. This doesn't mean they won't have substantial campaigns, but coop, asymmetric mp, dlc expansions will absolutely be a big part of that and were already well under way before last week.
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,597
People worry that Microsoft will only make GaaS now that they have game pass but they have purchased three developers who specialize in RPGs, built another developer to create a new Fable and bought Double Fine (which is the antithesis of a GaaS developer). I suspect their lineup will consist of some large GaaS titles, large single player games and smaller titles to compliment the line up. I voted for the first option.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
10,056
They will keep their singleplayer status, but the devs will be allowed to make the games that they want. If the BGS staff decides to make one of their games another online game, that's on them, not Microsoft.

But really, I am pretty sure that unless those devs are already making GAAS titles, they will stay traditional singleplayer titles
 

Deleted member 48991

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2018
753
I don't think Microsoft will change much about how Bethesda makes games. Also the "remain" case in the poll posits an inaccurate status quo. Bethesda doesn't just make/publish single player experiences. Even Bethesda Softworks most recent game is already GaaSy (Fallout 76).
 

TripleBee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,898
Vancouver
Guys, do you know what having 20 GAAS games means for a platform holder? It means 18 of those aren't going to get played for very long and fail.

Nobody buys like fucking Double Fine to get them to work on Halo as support or some shit.
Yeah, in some ways gamepass doesn't mesh with hardcore gaas. Stuff like Sea of Thieves where it's just content drops work fine. But a bunch of games with battle passes and dailies doesn't work in that system.
 

MistahS

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Sep 2, 2018
3,787
The backlash shitstorm would be way too big for MS to try and turn for example a traditional TES into what most imagine a GAAS to be. With the acquisition they inherited two GAAS already with Elder Scrolls Online and Fallout 76. They'll just expand on those since they already Use the biggest IPs they got in the purchase.
 

Dusk22

Member
Dec 4, 2017
253
Denver
I can't see any other Bethesda games going Gaas. Their two biggest franchises already went that direction. Neither are perfect. ESO has found their footing and have an ok model of big chapter dlc, 2 dungeon DLC's and a story zone dlc annually. Fallout 76 seems to be figuring out their identity and have turned the game around. It's not there yet.

Gaas games take a complete studio effort to keep relevant. I don't see Bethesda dedicating any more studios to creating and maintaining those types of games. Todd Howard likes to be creative. That's why they keep switching franchises from Elder Scrolls to Fallout and now Starfield.

I love the creativity at Bethesda. Can't wait for the rumored vampire Arkane game. Deathloop looks great. And I loved Wolfenstein 2. Gaas generates a lot of money. But it limits creativity.
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,204
GaaS for spinoff, mostly single-player for mainline titles. But they'll definitely have another crack at the whole 'paid mods' thing again, or a light co-op elements in mainline titles.
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
Australia
I think it'll just be business as usual. Both Microsoft and Bethesda seem to be leaning towards mostly traditional with a few live service games and I doubt that will change.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
If they turn out to be GaaSes it won't be because of the Microsoft buyout. Bethesda has already been going that way.
 

DeoGame

Member
Dec 11, 2018
5,106
I think there is less pressure to make them GAAS now as they have more financial stability. That said, from what job listings are showing, Arkane are making 2 AAA titles between Lyon and Austin beyond Deathloop. One is at least light GAAS, one is likely not.

This is more likely due to board mandates than anything else, but I don't see MS getting too involved to try and stop it (abd why should they). I suspect after 76 that Starfield is not GAAS and ESVI is definitely not because of ESO. Some studios like Zenimax Online will continue to make GAAS titles.

All of this being said, why does it matter? Sea of Thieves is now a fantastic game. Forza Horizon always is. If a game is well constructed, stuffed with content and launches well and has enough content for single players to enjoy what does it ultimately matter. GAAS is too often used as a crutch (and MS has been guilty of this) but it can be a big asset, especially now that MS has 36 dev teams to alleviate slack. A good GAAS launches great and just gets better. I'd rather a 9/10 GAAS that grows to a 10 then a 6/10 non service any day.
 

RedRum

Newbie Paper Plane Pilot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,367
Why do people keep thinking that almost every game that ends up on GP is going to become GaaS?
 

darthpaxton

Member
Jun 20, 2018
1,697
Sony probably knew Bethesda is going to be acquired though and paid for the time exclusivity for Deathloop and Ghostwire: Tokyo (and tried for Starfield) exactly because of that.
I doubt it. It actually took a lot of punch away from the fact that they have timed exclusivity on them. What's the best case scenario if you're Sony? If they're great games, you're locked out of the sequels (like Xbox is doing with Hellblade 2). If they're bad, you paid your main competitor for exclusivity on a bad game and Xbox will take the studios in another direction and give them more resources on the next one, which you'll be locked out of. It remains to be seen how it will play out, but there's also a chance that it comes to GamePass for PC on Day One, which would no doubt take away potential sales from Sony and boost GamePass PC's value. If it doesn't take away potential sales and it sells well, that sales revenue still goes directly to Xbox.
 

Malcolm9

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,048
UK
To be honest, Phil's "case-by-case basis" is very ambiguous and leaves lots of room for interpretation. However, I think we can all agree that there is no universe in which Sony would open up their exclusives for Xbox whatsoever.

Why would they when were developed from their first party studios. Sony didn't just buy out Zenimax, MS did to take rather than create well established IP's.
 

Sosukae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Hoping we see Quake 2 ray tracing on next generation consoles along with some of the other ID classics
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,612
We know that GaaS projects are appealing prospects for streaming service providers because of the way they entice consumers to remain subbed month after month. We've seen many (though not all) of Microsoft's franchises designed around this GaaS mold like Forza, Sea of Thieves, Grounded, Halo Infinite, and if rumors are true, Fable.

With that in mind, how do you think this will affect the way BethPub games are designed going forward? Will they mostly be allowed to retain their traditional self-contained structure, or will we see things like Elder Scrolls, Doom, Wolfenstein, etc. become living platforms that are meant to last for years on end?

Gamepass doesnt incentivize games to be designed a certain way. It's a collection of games that were designed for release outside of Gamepass.

I think your assumptions are all false. Gears, Forza and Halo were GaaS games long before Gamepass was conceived. Grounded was in development before MS acquired the studio. And Sea of Theives development predates Gamepass.

There are hundreds of games in Gamepass at any given time. Some are GaaS, most are not. There's no incentive to make a bunch of GaaS games to keep people subscribed. People stay subscribed because there's a large variety of content, and new content keeps arriving. When players are done with one game there are so many others to choose from that they are compelled to stick around.

Sure, MS wants people who like GaaS to see value in GP. They also want SP, story driven players on GP. They want local MP players on GP. They want fans of small indie games on GP. Fans of episodic games. Fighting games, sports games, platformers, etc...

The idea that its GaaS that keep players subbed to GP is nonsense. No matter what type of games motivate players to play, Gamepass has something to keep you around.

As such, the Bethesda games will continue on whatever development path the developers set out on. If the game is meant to be a live service, it will be. If it isnt, it wont be. There's no gamepas-related incentive to alter the design of a game towards live service. People have been making this argument for over 3 years and it's never come to fruition.

The notion that its GaaS that drives people to Gamepass doesnt even make sense on the surface. Nobody is going to pay $15 a month to play one game for years on end, when they can buy the game once and play it until the servers are cut off. Also, no one is going to subscribe to a service for its collection of GaaS games, because no one has time to invest in multiple GaaS games at once.
 
Last edited:

Ales34

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,455
Bethesda's games don't need to be GaaS to keep people subscribed for months. They're already hundreds of hours long thanks to their content and replayability. I spent 500+ hours in Skyrim. All Microsoft needs to do is make the mods more accessible on Xbox (give more space for mods, and allow SKSE to work).
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,919
Bethesda's games don't need to be GaaS to keep people subscribed for months. They're already hundreds of hours long thanks to their content and replayability. I spent 500+ hours in Skyrim. All Microsoft needs to do is make the mods more accessible on Xbox (give more space for mods, and allow SKSE to work).

This.

If Netflix wanted to develop a watch as service model, they wouldn't dump entire series in one go.

It's the sheer level of content and regular NEW content that will keep people engaged.

Not just new episodes of one series.

Lots of new series and movies....all the time.

Similarly, I think it's mad that people keep thinking that GP needs GAAS or MTs to be profitable. It absolutely does not.

Instead of making a few games that are GAAS, which would create a regular income on top of subscriptions, MS are instead going for a model whereby GP actually reduces the need for GAAS/MT. You have a constant stream of new games that compel people to keep subscribing. It's a much more effective tool than filling it with GAAS.

This is why MS have ALREADY generated enough studio capacity to, if timed properly, release a 1st party game almost every 4-6 weeks (with each game having 3+ years dev time).
 

Shoshi

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,661
The simple reason I'm pissed over this acquisition is because I don't want to have to own two consoles.
And I don't like the stress over having a Netflix Game Pass with hundreds of games pampering over me Play this! Play me! Try me!
Just let me invest in one game which I can dedicate my precious time on. I spent 200 hours on my playthrough of Fallout 4 and I don't see the need for such openworld games to be on a subscription service. But I don't play online neither.

I have no interest in Halo and Gears so for me to buy an Xbox just to play Fallout 5 and Shinji Mikami's games is ridiculous! I wouldn't mind if X got like a 1 year exclusivity on all Bethesda games if I knew I would still be able to pick it up someday. Ms would still get my money so why not. But I don't want any Game Pass on PS5, just plain licenses to add to my personal library.

I think most people would say Sony has built up some of their studios and connections with studios from way back on PS1 when Xbox didn't even exist. Those studios keeps on delivering great games, and sometimes on Xbox aswell. I can really appreciate the Xbox controller and the nice quality and made in USA but I don't want to have to own two consoles and I don't want to leave my vast PSN library behind.
So please MS and Bethesda, try to come up with a solution with Sony.
 

Brrandon

Member
Dec 13, 2019
3,103
The simple reason I'm pissed over this acquisition is because I don't want to have to own two consoles.
And I don't like the stress over having a Netflix Game Pass with hundreds of games pampering over me Play this! Play me! Try me!
Just let me invest in one game which I can dedicate my precious time on. I spent 200 hours on my playthrough of Fallout 4 and I don't see the need for such openworld games to be on a subscription service. But I don't play online neither.

I have no interest in Halo and Gears so for me to buy an Xbox just to play Fallout 5 and Shinji Mikami's games is ridiculous! I wouldn't mind if X got like a 1 year exclusivity on all Bethesda games if I knew I would still be able to pick it up someday. Ms would still get my money so why not. But I don't want any Game Pass on PS5, just plain licenses to add to my personal library.

I think most people would say Sony has built up some of their studios and connections with studios from way back on PS1 when Xbox didn't even exist. Those studios keeps on delivering great games, and sometimes on Xbox aswell. I can really appreciate the Xbox controller and the nice quality and made in USA but I don't want to have to own two consoles and I don't want to leave my vast PSN library behind.
So please MS and Bethesda, try to come up with a solution with Sony.
You could play them on pc, stream them to your mobile devices, or by the time the big games are out you could stream them to a less powerful pc through xcloud
 

Deleted member 51848

Jan 10, 2019
1,408
I know that streaming represents an existential threat to buying games and even owning physical systems. There is a lot to be said for the almost 'instant on' of cloud gaming. You see the game, you choose the game, you play the game. No downloading, no installing, no patching, no updating just almost instant playing.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
This.

If Netflix wanted to develop a watch as service model, they wouldn't dump entire series in one go.

It's the sheer level of content and regular NEW content that will keep people engaged.

Not just new episodes of one series.

Lots of new series and movies....all the time.

Similarly, I think it's mad that people keep thinking that GP needs GAAS or MTs to be profitable. It absolutely does not.

Instead of making a few games that are GAAS, which would create a regular income on top of subscriptions, MS are instead going for a model whereby GP actually reduces the need for GAAS/MT. You have a constant stream of new games that compel people to keep subscribing. It's a much more effective tool than filling it with GAAS.

This is why MS have ALREADY generated enough studio capacity to, if timed properly, release a 1st party game almost every 4-6 weeks (with each game having 3+ years dev time).

This.
 

Shoshi

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,661
Can I stream to my macbook pro or iphone? I need to play with a controller and will Dual Shock 4 or Dual Sense work on it? If I have to buy an android tablet I have to set it up on the desk. I dont like tablets and have never owned any.

I guess the 13" screen on a laptop would be acceptable but hopefully I can stream to my 27" monitor or a future TV.

Nah, just let me play on my PS5.
 

Cugel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,426
Bethesda just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about videogame culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in office software where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw gamers over, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the gaming public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Bethesda games for either system, nor will they purchase any of Bethesda's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Bethesda has alienated an entire market with this move.

Bethesda , publicly apologize and cancel the Microsoft acquisition or you can kiss your business goodbye.