And some users in this very thread.
Just don't let your media latch on to them and give them 24/7 access to promoting their hate like the US did.Also, we have our conservatives and right wingers using this to bash "refugee lover" Trudeau.
Just in case people thought Canada was a united good guy, we also have our fair share of racist asssholes.
The discursive production of Muslim women as oppressed, backward, silenced, and invisible (secluded/veiled) has a long history in the popular imagination of and writings on Islamic societies in both the geographic West and elsewhere (Alloula; Khanna; Bullock; Hoodfar; Brenner). The dubious distinction of symbolizing the inferiority of entire cultures does not belong to Muslim women alone; the trope of "the subjugated native woman" has underwritten self-justifications of colonial discourses in much of the world. For instance, Dutch colonial accounts frequently portrayed Javanese women as "the silent suffering victims of barbaric cultures in need of European progress, enlightenment, and technology" (Gouda, 19), while in the eighteenth century, British attitudes toward women in the Indian subcontinent oozed "a curious mix of erotic fascination and a missionary zeal to rescue them" from their "societal prison" (Banerjee, 37–38). Such inferiorizing discourses about "other" peoples and cultures in turn allowed European colonizers to imagine themselves as saviors, civilizers, and agents of progress. Indeed, this historical connection between Europe's "conquest of non-European people and the appropriation and exploitation of their lands and resources," on the one hand, and "the justificationfor this violation … [as] enlightenment, civilization, progress, development and modernization" (emphasis in original), on the other, remains a fundamental insight of postcolonial scholarship (D. Scott, 4). Lila Abu-Lughod's provocatively titled Do Muslim Women Need Saving?considers a contemporary, neocolonial instantiation of this practice of demeaning "other"—in this case, Islamic—cultures through derogatory portrayals of women identified with or belonging in such cultures [End Page 244]to justify current "American and European international adventures in parts of the Middle East and South Asia" (6–7).
Just in case people thought Canada was a united good guy, we also have our fair share of racist asssholes.
She'll no doubt love it here. But 30F is what...minus 1 celcius? She's in for a treat, as that's basically shorts weather.
Women do seem to be vulnerable to being silenced, battered and abused in some Muslim countries if they don't follow religious behavioral codes. That even the suggestion of wanting to distance themselves from it they are subjected to state approved abuse. It even goes so far as to state imprisonment and torture if they wish to convince others to simply abandon a religion and its practices.Western society portrays Muslim women as completely helpless,, silenced, battered, abused, etc etc. Ignoring the fact that it's condescending, it also comes from an old colonist mentality that "These people are backwards and it's up to us to enlightened them." Basically a moral crusade that will unite Western conservatives, liberals, feminists, and sexists. It's also a way for the West to ignore its own backward views towards women. Again, I present you indigenous women in Canadian constantly fucked over.
And this has been going on for centuries. It's just that Islam is the current boogeyman
I'm sincerely happy for this young woman. She's not going to die. But I just know that everyone is itching the moment to use her for their fucked up since of superiority
This woman is a hero and hopefully she will inspire other women to flee horrific circumstances around the world.
At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
To me, a hero is someone who sacrifices themselves (comfort, safety, etc) for the benefit of somebody else, or a large number of people. At the end of the day, this girl ran away from her family, because she didn't like the culture/society she was in. After she was out, she then publicly proclaimed her atheism, the only goal of which was to increase her perceived level of danger and lower the risk that she would be returned to her country, which turned out to be a good gamble for her. A hero is someone you would want others to emulate. What would be the end goal, for all girls/women in Saudi Arabia to flee and seek asylum elsewhere? Is that what we're encouraging and condoning? What did she sacrifice for someone else? Her fantasy was to run away and live in a western country, towards a lifestyle she preferred, and that's what she did. I don't see how anyone benefitted from her actions, or how anyone ever will.
Let me just make clear that I wish her all the best, I have no reason not to. I just don't see what aspects of what she did are heroic or commendable. We also have to acknowledge that we are basing all opinions on her side of a story, and hers alone. Let's not be naive enough to assume it's completely objective or accurate without truly knowing the facts. Kind of stunned with all the conclusive statements about her family in this thread (terrorists/evil/etc) , based on absolutely nothing but the words of a teen that doesn't want to live in Saudi Arabia.
"I want to do crazy things I've never done before,". Reasonable sentiments from a teen. But heroic? I can't see it.
At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
To me, a hero is someone who sacrifices themselves (comfort, safety, etc) for the benefit of somebody else, or a large number of people. At the end of the day, this girl ran away from her family, because she didn't like the culture/society she was in. After she was out, she then publicly proclaimed her atheism, the only goal of which was to increase her perceived level of danger and lower the risk that she would be returned to her country, which turned out to be a good gamble for her. A hero is someone you would want others to emulate. What would be the end goal, for all girls/women in Saudi Arabia to flee and seek asylum elsewhere? Is that what we're encouraging and condoning? What did she sacrifice for someone else? Her fantasy was to run away and live in a western country, towards a lifestyle she preferred, and that's what she did. I don't see how anyone benefitted from her actions, or how anyone ever will.
Let me just make clear that I wish her all the best, I have no reason not to. I just don't see what aspects of what she did are heroic or commendable. We also have to acknowledge that we are basing all opinions on her side of a story, and hers alone. Let's not be naive enough to assume it's completely objective or accurate without truly knowing the facts. Kind of stunned with all the conclusive statements about her family in this thread (terrorists/evil/etc) , based on absolutely nothing but the words of a teen that doesn't want to live in Saudi Arabia.
"I want to do crazy things I've never done before,". Reasonable sentiments from a teen. But heroic? I can't see it.
Pretty much this.
At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
To me, a hero is someone who sacrifices themselves (comfort, safety, etc) for the benefit of somebody else, or a large number of people. At the end of the day, this girl ran away from her family, because she didn't like the culture/society she was in. After she was out, she then publicly proclaimed her atheism, the only goal of which was to increase her perceived level of danger and lower the risk that she would be returned to her country, which turned out to be a good gamble for her. A hero is someone you would want others to emulate. What would be the end goal, for all girls/women in Saudi Arabia to flee and seek asylum elsewhere? Is that what we're encouraging and condoning? What did she sacrifice for someone else? Her fantasy was to run away and live in a western country, towards a lifestyle she preferred, and that's what she did. I don't see how anyone benefitted from her actions, or how anyone ever will.
Let me just make clear that I wish her all the best, I have no reason not to. I just don't see what aspects of what she did are heroic or commendable. We also have to acknowledge that we are basing all opinions on her side of a story, and hers alone. Let's not be naive enough to assume it's completely objective or accurate without truly knowing the facts. Kind of stunned with all the conclusive statements about her family in this thread (terrorists/evil/etc) , based on absolutely nothing but the words of a teen that doesn't want to live in Saudi Arabia.
"I want to do crazy things I've never done before,". Reasonable sentiments from a teen. But heroic? I can't see it.
Yeah, you do sound heartless. She risked her life because she could no longer tolerate the repression she received in Saudi Arabia. It will absolutely encourage other women to escape repression and seek better lives for themselves, particularly with the global support she has received and Canada's forward-thinking immigration policies. That makes a hero and if you can't see it, that says a lot more about you than it does her.
ad hominem would be if attacked you as a person tho.Thanks for the well thought out response, you got me there.
Always blown away how people can get away with direct ad hominem attacks here. Pretty sure my post was coherent and comprehensible, no matter how much you hated the question.
No, I don't think trying to humbly understand what qualifies her as a hero "says" anything about me. So are you saying is that the end goal is to have all Saudi girls secretly abandon their families and leave the country, because they prefer a different lifestyle? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you want to "encourage" and what the end goal here is. Since drinking alcohol isn't allowed in Saudi, should all kids who want to drink flee the country? She had a glass of wine on the plane, so that's one thing she wanted and she couldn't easily get. What is the threshold at which you would encourage kids to run away from their families and their country? I'm sorry if that doesn't meet my personal threshold of "hero".
A small, vocal minority that everybody ignores.Also, we have our conservatives and right wingers using this to bash "refugee lover" Trudeau.
Just in case people thought Canada was a united good guy, we also have our fair share of racist asssholes.
Tell me about the rights of women in Saudi Arabia.No, it isn't really a garbage post, and that term isn't ludicrous. I've lived in almost dozen countries, including Saudi, Lebanon, European countries, the US, and Canada. I've been exposed to a wide variety of cultures and lifestyles, and I'm well aware that there are many that would risk a lot to move to a country with a different lifestyles and get away from their communities/families, even if they aren't being abused, oppressed, in a warzone, in danger, etc. It's not an insane concept, and personally I'm not willing to label her as a hero when I'm well aware of my ignorance when it comes to all the facts in her story.
No, I don't think trying to humbly understand what qualifies her as a hero "says" anything about me. So are you saying is that the end goal is to have all Saudi girls secretly abandon their families and leave the country, because they prefer a different lifestyle? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you want to "encourage" and what the end goal here is. Since drinking alcohol isn't allowed in Saudi, should all kids who want to drink flee the country? She had a glass of wine on the plane, so that's one thing she wanted and she couldn't easily get. What is the threshold at which you would encourage kids to run away from their families and their country? I'm sorry if that doesn't meet my personal threshold of "hero".
No, it isn't really a garbage post, and that term isn't ludicrous. I've lived in almost dozen countries, including Saudi, Lebanon, European countries, the US, and Canada. I've been exposed to a wide variety of cultures and lifestyles, and I'm well aware that there are many that would risk a lot to move to a country with a different lifestyles and get away from their communities/families, even if they aren't being abused, oppressed, in a warzone, in danger, etc. It's not an insane concept, and personally I'm not willing to label her as a hero when I'm well aware of my ignorance when it comes to all the facts in her story.
No, I don't think trying to humbly understand what qualifies her as a hero "says" anything about me. So are you saying is that the end goal is to have all Saudi girls secretly abandon their families and leave the country, because they prefer a different lifestyle? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you want to "encourage" and what the end goal here is. Since drinking alcohol isn't allowed in Saudi, should all kids who want to drink flee the country? She had a glass of wine on the plane, so that's one thing she wanted and she couldn't easily get. What is the threshold at which you would encourage kids to run away from their families and their country? I'm sorry if that doesn't meet my personal threshold of "hero".
No, it isn't really a garbage post, and that term isn't ludicrous. I've lived in almost dozen countries, including Saudi, Lebanon, European countries, the US, and Canada. I've been exposed to a wide variety of cultures and lifestyles, and I'm well aware that there are many that would risk a lot to move to a country with a different lifestyles and get away from their communities/families, even if they aren't being abused, oppressed, in a warzone, in danger, etc. It's not an insane concept, and personally I'm not willing to label her as a hero when I'm well aware of my ignorance when it comes to all the facts in her story.
This is what happens when you grow up watching war films and reading comics. You think heroes are the people who punch/shoot "bad guys" rather than standing up against everyday injustice.
Fucking barbarians. I can't wait for every drop of oil to run out of that shithole, so that the royal family and those Al Ash-Seikh bastards get turned on when they can't bribe the tribes to maintain their dominance.She's very, very lucky. There was another girl the year before that was trying to flee through the Philippines but was sent back. She was last seen tied and bound, kicking and screaming as they dragged her on a plane back to SA. I don't believe she was ever heard from again.
Found her story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Ali_Lasloom
Saudi activists said Lasloom was forced onto a Saudi Arabia Airlines flight from Manila to Riyadh on the night of Tuesday 11 April 2017.[39][40] A Saudi feminist who obtained the video from an eyewitness reported that Lasloom was forced onto the plane by her two diplomat uncles and Filipino police.[41][42] Human Rights Watch interviewed four people linked to Lasloom's case, including two who said they had spoken to her at Manila's Ninoy Aquino International Airport.[43]
Feminist activist Moudhi Aljohani, who claims to have talked to Lasloom on the phone,[44] is quoted in a report in The Australian saying Lasloom avoided a first attempt to force her onto a plane to Saudi Arabia "by screaming and physically resisting, attracting the attention of other passengers." A video of the incident was released on YouTube.[45]
An airline security official told Human Rights Watch that he saw two airline security officials and three apparently Middle Eastern men enter the hotel and go to her room, which he said was near the lobby. He said he heard her screaming and begging for help from her room, after which he saw them carry her out with duct tape on her mouth, feet, and hands. He said she was still struggling to break free when he saw them put her in a wheelchair and take her out of the hotel.[46]
A witness quoted in The Australian said she saw a woman being pulled out of a room with her mouth taped shut, and her body was wrapped in a sheet. This is assumed to have been done by her two uncles and a member of the Saudi Embassy. "They weren't Filipino. They looked Arab," another woman, who declined to give her name, told The Australian. A third witness claimed to have seen "A security officer and three middle eastern men doing this". She was later forced onto a Saudi Arabian Airlines flight, the pilots and crew of which were reportedly aware and supportive of Lasloom being returned to Riyadh against her will, siding heavily with her uncles.[47][48][49]
Despite conflicting reports at the time about whether or not Lasloom was in fact on the flight, passengers en route to Riyadh began reporting on social media that there was a hostage aboard, prompting the governments of Oman and Qatar to refuse the aircraft passage through their airspace. While only confirmed to confidential sources and not officially verified, this is supported by flight path records, which show an abrupt change in direction and trajectory, with the plane make almost a full turn.
Treated like fucking slaves being returned to their masters.
I mean, her family threatened to kill her for leaving her religion and she is well within her rights to reject a theology that she finds oppressive and that takes away her basic human rights. I don't see a problem with this?I mean, she abandoned her family and rejected all of Islam, so let's not pretend it's only the societal/cultural oppressive society in SA that she had a problem with.
Also, we have our conservatives and right wingers using this to bash "refugee lover" Trudeau.
Just in case people thought Canada was a united good guy, we also have our fair share of racist asssholes.
Oh my god, starting to cry reading this. But thank you for sharing, I haven't heard of her before.She's very, very lucky. There was another girl the year before that was trying to flee through the Philippines but was sent back. She was last seen tied and bound, kicking and screaming as they dragged her on a plane back to SA. I don't believe she was ever heard from again.
Found her story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Ali_Lasloom
Saudi activists said Lasloom was forced onto a Saudi Arabia Airlines flight from Manila to Riyadh on the night of Tuesday 11 April 2017.[39][40] A Saudi feminist who obtained the video from an eyewitness reported that Lasloom was forced onto the plane by her two diplomat uncles and Filipino police.[41][42] Human Rights Watch interviewed four people linked to Lasloom's case, including two who said they had spoken to her at Manila's Ninoy Aquino International Airport.[43]
Feminist activist Moudhi Aljohani, who claims to have talked to Lasloom on the phone,[44] is quoted in a report in The Australian saying Lasloom avoided a first attempt to force her onto a plane to Saudi Arabia "by screaming and physically resisting, attracting the attention of other passengers." A video of the incident was released on YouTube.[45]
An airline security official told Human Rights Watch that he saw two airline security officials and three apparently Middle Eastern men enter the hotel and go to her room, which he said was near the lobby. He said he heard her screaming and begging for help from her room, after which he saw them carry her out with duct tape on her mouth, feet, and hands. He said she was still struggling to break free when he saw them put her in a wheelchair and take her out of the hotel.[46]
A witness quoted in The Australian said she saw a woman being pulled out of a room with her mouth taped shut, and her body was wrapped in a sheet. This is assumed to have been done by her two uncles and a member of the Saudi Embassy. "They weren't Filipino. They looked Arab," another woman, who declined to give her name, told The Australian. A third witness claimed to have seen "A security officer and three middle eastern men doing this". She was later forced onto a Saudi Arabian Airlines flight, the pilots and crew of which were reportedly aware and supportive of Lasloom being returned to Riyadh against her will, siding heavily with her uncles.[47][48][49]
Despite conflicting reports at the time about whether or not Lasloom was in fact on the flight, passengers en route to Riyadh began reporting on social media that there was a hostage aboard, prompting the governments of Oman and Qatar to refuse the aircraft passage through their airspace. While only confirmed to confidential sources and not officially verified, this is supported by flight path records, which show an abrupt change in direction and trajectory, with the plane make almost a full turn.
Treated like fucking slaves being returned to their masters.
What a bizarre take. The girl ran for her life. Her family abandoned her first when they threatened to kill her just because she wanted to be free to live life how she chose to, and not relegated to being a 2nd class citizen-slave and forced into a belief she did not want to follow. The only way I can interpret your reaction is that you don't mind how SA and other similar nations treats their women like this and that holds religion over basic rights. smh.Gotta love the assumptions here. I've never read a comic, and hate war films. You have absolutely no idea what my life experiences are and what colors my perspective and context. Not sure how abandoning your family and running away to another country is "standing up to everyday injustice", but fine. Again, I wish this girl well, but I should be able to see her as something other than a "hero" without being seen as having malicious intent, as if viewing her as a hero is the only possible perspective one can have.There more than one way to assess certain actions, and more than one perspective can be reasonable. I mean, she abandoned her family and rejected all of Islam, so let's not pretend it's only the societal/cultural oppressive society in SA that she had a problem with. Not sure what's wrong with pointing that out.
"Why do you give a fuck, this is really what you took away from reading all of this?"
Why is everyone else in this thread allowed to give a fuck by commenting, and I'm not? Why are you so offended by the fact that I have a slightly different take? Not even sure what your comment means.
I wish her well, but don't view her as anything close to a hero. I doubt this is some kind of radical opinion.
You don't think her achieving freedom through social media while men are barging into wherever she is to kidnap her and kill her as heroic? She wasn't just escaping her culture, but by her own words, an abusive family who not only disowned her but wanted to murder her. Yes we are coming to conclusive statements about the family because they have chosen not to respond to the allegations so we are just believing the woman here. This is heroic because she succeeded while previous cases like this turned out to fail because authorities gave into Saudi pressure and handed other victims over.At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
To me, a hero is someone who sacrifices themselves (comfort, safety, etc) for the benefit of somebody else, or a large number of people. At the end of the day, this girl ran away from her family, because she didn't like the culture/society she was in. After she was out, she then publicly proclaimed her atheism, the only goal of which was to increase her perceived level of danger and lower the risk that she would be returned to her country, which turned out to be a good gamble for her. A hero is someone you would want others to emulate. What would be the end goal, for all girls/women in Saudi Arabia to flee and seek asylum elsewhere? Is that what we're encouraging and condoning? What did she sacrifice for someone else? Her fantasy was to run away and live in a western country, towards a lifestyle she preferred, and that's what she did. I don't see how anyone benefitted from her actions, or how anyone ever will.
Let me just make clear that I wish her all the best, I have no reason not to. I just don't see what aspects of what she did are heroic or commendable. We also have to acknowledge that we are basing all opinions on her side of a story, and hers alone. Let's not be naive enough to assume it's completely objective or accurate without truly knowing the facts. Kind of stunned with all the conclusive statements about her family in this thread (terrorists/evil/etc) , based on absolutely nothing but the words of a teen that doesn't want to live in Saudi Arabia.
"I want to do crazy things I've never done before,". Reasonable sentiments from a teen. But heroic? I can't see it.
At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
To me, a hero is someone who sacrifices themselves (comfort, safety, etc) for the benefit of somebody else, or a large number of people. At the end of the day, this girl ran away from her family, because she didn't like the culture/society she was in. After she was out, she then publicly proclaimed her atheism, the only goal of which was to increase her perceived level of danger and lower the risk that she would be returned to her country, which turned out to be a good gamble for her. A hero is someone you would want others to emulate. What would be the end goal, for all girls/women in Saudi Arabia to flee and seek asylum elsewhere? Is that what we're encouraging and condoning? What did she sacrifice for someone else? Her fantasy was to run away and live in a western country, towards a lifestyle she preferred, and that's what she did. I don't see how anyone benefitted from her actions, or how anyone ever will.
Let me just make clear that I wish her all the best, I have no reason not to. I just don't see what aspects of what she did are heroic or commendable. We also have to acknowledge that we are basing all opinions on her side of a story, and hers alone. Let's not be naive enough to assume it's completely objective or accurate without truly knowing the facts. Kind of stunned with all the conclusive statements about her family in this thread (terrorists/evil/etc) , based on absolutely nothing but the words of a teen that doesn't want to live in Saudi Arabia.
"I want to do crazy things I've never done before,". Reasonable sentiments from a teen. But heroic? I can't see it.
Western society portrays Muslim women as completely helpless,, silenced, battered, abused, etc etc. Ignoring the fact that it's condescending, it also comes from an old colonist mentality that "These people are backwards and it's up to us to enlightened them." Basically a moral crusade that will unite Western conservatives, liberals, feminists, and sexists. It's also a way for the West to ignore its own backward views towards women. Again, I present you indigenous women in Canadian constantly fucked over.
No, I don't think trying to humbly understand what qualifies her as a hero "says" anything about me. So are you saying is that the end goal is to have all Saudi girls secretly abandon their families and leave the country, because they prefer a different lifestyle? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you want to "encourage" and what the end goal here is. Since drinking alcohol isn't allowed in Saudi, should all kids who want to drink flee the country? She had a glass of wine on the plane, so that's one thing she wanted and she couldn't easily get. What is the threshold at which you would encourage kids to run away from their families and their country? I'm sorry if that doesn't meet my personal threshold of "hero".
That's... actually a good plot for a John-Wick-successor movie.Running away from your murderous family is pretty brave and all but I wouldn't call it heroic.
A real hero would've killed their entire family then lead an open secular rebellion culminating in the assassination of the royal family of KSA.
Country which let schoolgirls burn to death because of religious police.No, I don't think trying to humbly understand what qualifies her as a hero "says" anything about me. So are you saying is that the end goal is to have all Saudi girls secretly abandon their families and leave the country, because they prefer a different lifestyle? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you want to "encourage" and what the end goal here is. Since drinking alcohol isn't allowed in Saudi, should all kids who want to drink flee the country? She had a glass of wine on the plane, so that's one thing she wanted and she couldn't easily get. What is the threshold at which you would encourage kids to run away from their families and their country? I'm sorry if that doesn't meet my personal threshold of "hero".