olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
To be honest I sometimes feel like my parents if they were in America, would vote for the republicans .Black immigrants who would likely be spit on everyday by white republicans and they would still probs vote for them. Christianity and fuck you got mine are hell of a drug.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
www.vox.com

Why fake news is so hard to combat in Asian American communities

Language diversity within the AAPI community means misinformation is difficult to track.

The challenge of combating fake news in Asian American communities
This grassroots work isn't sufficient, nor is it sustainable. Organizers say Democrats need to commit to outreach and budget in translation services to reach these historically overlooked communities. "The Democratic Party needs to recognize that there are certain political sensitivities within the Asian American umbrella," said Wang of Taiwanese Americans for Progress. "For Taiwanese Americans, it's crucial that candidates express their backing for Taiwan. … Since Trump has been so vocal about China, many believe that he will take action to support Taiwan."

Meanwhile, in Taipei.
P02-201220-2a.jpg


Turns out you need to invest in outreach to control public perception and when you don't invest, someone else will. I had thought Democratic capitalists would understand the market logic here, but apparently not?
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Here in Texas the higher Hispanic vote for Trump directly correlated to his sending them a $1200 check with his name on it. They don't know Dems are the ones who fought to get it approved.

Of course far right and conservative groups also spent a ton of money pushing out propaganda to Hispanics online on social media.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Beto is a funny example to name as the future of the party since he has lost two consecutive races! And I believe the reason he lost his Senate race in 2018 was because he underperformed with Latino voters compared to Hillary. I give him a lot of credit for working his ass off this year, but his Powered by the People clearly did not make the kinds of inroads with Latino voters that we thought it would or should since Trump did even better with Texas Latinos this year than in 2016. If there's a secret sauce for Democrats to win more Latino voters, Beto doesn't have it.

And I like AOC but she lives in a bubble. If she was running for Congress in South Florida or South Texas she would've been crushed this year.

I didn't say it was a panacea, just a path to victory. Beto got 48% of the total vote in his senate race and made the GOP nervous about losing Texas, compared to Hagar who only got 43% and the GOP barely batted an eye. I realize this is an apples to oranges comparison, but my point stands. The more successful Dem politicians have to build coalitions by uniting people over social and economic concerns. Biden got better about it, but the larger party hasn't learned and even for Biden it wasn't as good as it could have been.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
I think Dems are doomed in the long term. Even with the most corporate, centrist, least "socialist" candidate possible (Biden), they still did worse in key demographics. The anti-Trump vote won't be there in 2024.

I think you can make good-faith arguments how Dems should or shouldn't message themselves around that. But in the eyes of a low-information voter - white, black, Latino, AAPI - the Democrats were the party of defunding police. That was a big turn off to many voters but especially voters of color.

No Democrat has endorsed Defund the Police, except AOC whom the party hates. Why don't people understand this? It's not a Dem platform. Voters chose Biden who is against protests and pro/neutral to police. It's individual protestors and activists... so are you going to tell them to stop saying that?

--

In NYC many Asian American families are against DeBlasio/Dems for wanting to keep more Asian out of the specialized high schools in favor of other minorities. NYC Asian Americans are as close to the "American Dream" as you can get - most parents work in kitchens/taxi/extremely low wage jobs and save every penny for the children's education. They see city Dem leadership actively try to stop their dreams from happening.
 

Deleted member 18324

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
678
Can't blame Dems for people being idiot pieces of shit.

You're right dude, the entire electorate are letting down their betters in the Democratic party. Jesus. Are minorities now being added to the basket of deplorables now?

You can all keep pretending the more left wing part of the party didn't hurt the numbers with immigrants if it makes you feel better — you don't listen to us anyways.

Maybe the candidate being a racist piece of shit himself hurt the numbers with immigrants, considering the left wing of the party's most visible members are minorities. Of course the sainted Joe is blameless and ran a perfect campaign, couldn't possibly be that.

This is what happens when you pretend "minorities" are a uniform bloc you are entitled to the votes of. There will be plenty of 3rd generation or later minority groups who would absolutely be anti-immigrant, because a) they don't identify with Central American refugees at all and b) fucking with Latin America has been a bipartisan project in America for decades, so why would you think a 3rd generation Latino millennial would automatically vote Dem? One party cries about Mexican rapists and the other thinks sensible government includes backing coups in Honduras and then whining to European leaders to deal with the refugee crises brought on by its own foreign policy.
 

Ecotic

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,408
This is just my personal opinion but I feel like a lot of this can be explained not by "fuck you, I got mine" but by white identity politics. I grew up in a largely Puerto Rican/Dominican neighborhood in Brooklyn and can remember being confused because so many of friends/neighbors from these islands seemed to think that they were white. Trump has defied a lot of conventional ideas about demographics mostly because he the first president in modern times who placed a focus on white supremacy over any real political platform. As we've seen even Black Americans can find that message appealing if they believe that they'll be included in the expanded umbrella of being white.
I've seen this explanation a lot since the election, and I think it's the most accurate. I think there's a lot of minorities who don't want to personally identify as what they see as an aggrieved minority - someone who places their race on the top of their identity hierarchy and who sees their life first and foremost as a struggle against society's disadvantages against their race. I've known some people who think that way of thinking is self-harm. "Why would you define and limit yourself that way?", they say. That, and these minorities either personally find it easy to physically pass as white, or to appear in their mannerisms to completely convey the message that they want to be a part of white western culture and obey its norms. I think for the people I just described, there's a personal revulsion to seeing Democratic politicians break everything down into race. They don't want to be that type of person.

Now, that being said, I still don't see how people like that can bring themselves to vote for Trump. But as you said, Trump ran on a platform of the glorification of white western culture. That must have some appeal for people like this.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
Maybe the candidate being a racist piece of shit himself hurt the numbers with immigrants, considering the left wing of the party's most visible members are minorities. Of course the sainted Joe is blameless and ran a perfect campaign, couldn't possibly be that.
I really don't know what these people want. We bit our tongue and picked the least socialist/left wing Dem nominee possible, but we (leftists) will get blamed for any losses. So are we just supposed to never speak up or run for office?
 

chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
We need to stop framing fascists as a legitimate side to shift to. "Red" or "right" or "conservative" gives them too much credit. Makes them sound like an actual coherent idea. Maybe "shift to insanity" or "shift to fascism". Its really dangerous to present it as a legitimate political side of the country.
 

Dr. Giggles

Member
Oct 31, 2017
429
Any immigrant that voted for Trump should be embarrassed. Voting for a guy that would deport your ass in a heartbeat. I'm glad I don't have any Trump supporters in my Mexican family; I'd have to call them out on for that self-hating bullshit.
 

Arken

Member
Jan 14, 2018
370
Seattle
Do you guys think it all comes down to irrational desperation? I'm genuinely curious because I can't wrap my head around it? Maybe there are just assholes everywhere, regardless of color/creed?
 

skeptem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,780
Anyone surprised by this needs to spend more time around immigrants, especially first generation. I can only speak to Puerto Ricans as a Puerto Rican myself, but most of us are extremely conservative. The only reason you don't see it is because you don't speak Spanish.
Most is a bit much, I would say we (but not me) are more conservative than American think. But if I look at my family and extended family across the island, probably 3 out of 20 voted republican. The Biggest reasons are abortion, taxes, military.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,397
Idk, one thing to consider is immigrants are more likely to be effected by lockdowns, and when you live in a state like florida where if you don't work there is no safety net for employees it's not hard to see them going for the guy screaming to keep things open
Eh, Florida was lost on the backs of "socialism" scares. It happened in 2018 too where Desantis won against Gillum who is a fair bit to the party's left. Also, Florida never truly locked down.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,062
I really don't know what these people want. We bit our tongue and picked the least socialist/left wing Dem nominee possible, but we (leftists) will get blamed for any losses. So are we just supposed to never speak up or run for office?
They want us to disappear. Same as a lot of people.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,531
I really don't know what these people want. We bit our tongue and picked the least socialist/left wing Dem nominee possible, but we (leftists) will get blamed for any losses. So are we just supposed to never speak up or run for office?

I'd guess the thought process is something akin to this:

 

Kitsunebaby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,716
Annapolis, Maryland
There are people from every walk of life that are desperate for someone to look down on. Trump and the current Republican party is happy to give them that for a vote, and then shit on them afterwards.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Either way I'm sure the Republican party is taking notes. The next candidate might be someone like Tulsi, and will speak the language of inclusion while destroying the state, workers rights, abortion access, healthcare access, and opening up more proxy wars.

But hey, even some Dems are on board with that in the end so maybe it won't make any difference.

Republican party is already running circles around the Democrats, and this decade is going to be filled with pain because of it. While the party is wasting time blaming minorities and DFP, Republicans were actually putting in work.

--- Repubs know that knocking on doors and face to face meetings are important. Probably more important than any policies or speech coming from the politicians. article kinda hints at this:
"It's a split-screen reality," Dr. Cadava said. "On one hand, there are the tweets, and Trump giving Stephen Miller free rein to do the worst things imaginable. But at the same time, they are articulating a broad-based appeal to Latinos based on the economy and freedom of religion."

See also: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/04/trump-joe-biden-campaign-door-knockers-391454
Republicans say their door-knocking dominance could make a difference in November, since in-person conversations have long been considered the most effective type of voter contact.

"From now to Election Day, voters may only see one campaign at their doors," Elliott Echols, the RNC's national field director. "If this were Barack Obama running, Democrats would want to be out there knocking doors. They don't have enthusiasm or a strong field operation, so it is a convenient excuse. We can do this safely for President Trump and Republicans up and down the ballot."

and
www.carolinacoastonline.com

Republicans got out and voted on Election Day, and it paid off

Boots on the ground are worth more than a dollar.
How did Republicans do it? Election watchers say N.C. Republicans won federal races deploying an old-fashioned "boots on the ground" strategy backed by the precision of targeting technology. The GOP's ground game brought hundreds of thousands more Republicans than Democrats to the polls on Election Day, wiping out leads Democrats had built during two months of mail balloting and 17 days of early voting.

Americans for Prosperity Action, a grass-roots free-market group, endorsed Tillis in July 2019, and began its work in January with digital ads, N.C. State Director Chris McCoy told Carolina Journal.

"While our financial investment in support of Sen. Tillis was significant, the stand-out feature of our engagement was our targeted door-to-door canvassing efforts. Primarily targeted swing voters in Triangle and Charlotte, our volunteers had substantive, policy-focused conversations with voters that contributed to Tillis' overperformance in these regions," McCoy said.

When you don't have people and money on the ground to counter the conservative message, then you get what we're seeing. Notice no mention of defund the police or BLM anywhere at all. Just the facts of spending money and directly meeting and challenging the electorate. Basic shit.


---and something that should also scare the shit out of Democrats is that the Repubs know that they have to run minorities and women, which is what happened and guess what - Repubs won most of those races

Henry Olsen op but the numbers are still true
At least 33 House Republicans will be either women or non-White when the new body sits in January. This includes 27 women, six Hispanics, and two Black men, Burgess Owens of Utah and Byron Donalds of Florida. They come from all regions of the country and represent urban, suburban and rural seats.
In fact, every seat Republicans have flipped from blue to red has been captured by a woman or a minority. This wasn't an accident.

Aided by efforts by the National Republican Congressional Committee and Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.), GOP officials strenuously tried to recruit capable female and non-White candidates for as many pickup opportunities as possible.


It works better for the Democrats if the Republicans stick with their boring wealthy white guys, but that's no longer going to be the script going forward.

The entire party needs an enema and fresh faces, particularly when it comes to leadership. Especially when it comes to leadership. The entire DSCC needs to be overhauled, and the party needs to go grassroots. Excite the people again and actually talk to your electorate and make the case.
 

Deleted member 18324

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
678
I really don't know what these people want. We bit our tongue and picked the least socialist/left wing Dem nominee possible, but we (leftists) will get blamed for any losses. So are we just supposed to never speak up or run for office?

What you're supposed to do is not pay these lunatics any mind and do whatever good work you can locally outside of the Democratic party structure. The Democratic party as it is currently constituted is a waste of time as it is a literal gerontocracy that is at least 4 years away from being cleared out.

We need to stop framing fascists as a legitimate side to shift to. "Red" or "right" or "conservative" gives them too much credit. Makes them sound like an actual coherent idea. Maybe "shift to insanity" or "shift to fascism". Its really dangerous to present it as a legitimate political side of the country.

This is just the same tactic you already failed with, i.e. "this is a unique threat we cannot tolerate as a society". If you're pleased with the Democratic party's results on this strategy then get used to it I guess.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,062
It works better for the Democrats if the Republicans stick with their boring wealthy white guys, but that's no longer going to be the script going forward.

The entire party needs an enema and fresh faces, particularly when it comes to leadership. Especially when it comes to leadership. The entire DSCC needs to be overhauled, and the party needs to go grassroots. Excite the people again and actually talk to your electorate and make the case.
Man, Dems really are a party of castoffs.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,397
--- Repubs know that knocking on doors and face to face meetings are important. Probably more important than any policies or speech coming from the politicians. article kinda hints at this:

once covid hit, that was never gonna happen no matter who the candidate was. It does say the people shifting towards Trump likely didn't care about Covid though and in fact were receptive to get back to work.
 

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,058
Eh, Florida was lost on the backs of "socialism" scares. It happened in 2018 too where Desantis won against Gillum who is a fair bit to the party's left. Also, Florida never truly locked down.

That's the point, they didn't lock down and they saw that as protecting their ability to work, and gillium and desantis was close and didn't help they kept trying to make something of gillium being investigated by fbi. I know a lot of latinos here in Florida who just moved back from cali cause of all the lockdowns, they're super pissed and don't see it as a pandemic but as having their lives ruined.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,531
Ha! Good one. I can't speak for the 10% most right wing, but the 10% most "left" are probably tankies/full communists/anarchists. Most of us lefties just want cheaper/free healthcare.

I'm a communist with anarchist tendencies so I guess I wouldn't survive the purge. :(
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,501
Do you guys think it all comes down to irrational desperation? I'm genuinely curious because I can't wrap my head around it? Maybe there are just assholes everywhere, regardless of color/creed?

nah can't be that these voters are assholes and/or morons, but it's the Dems who ran a perfectly fine pandemic campaign's fault.
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
www.vox.com

Why fake news is so hard to combat in Asian American communities

Language diversity within the AAPI community means misinformation is difficult to track.




Meanwhile, in Taipei.
P02-201220-2a.jpg


Turns out you need to invest in outreach to control public perception and when you don't invest, someone else will. I had thought Democratic capitalists would understand the market logic here, but apparently not?

????

Trump's support in Taiwan has nothing to do with failure of outreach and public perception by the Dems, but rather is due to Trump's supposed "toughness" on China, and as Trump being an ally to Taiwan over China (one such measure was Trump or someone calling the President of Taiwan, basically publicly acknowledging Taiwan as opposed to just selling them a bunch of weapons "secretly").

Why do Taiwanese people in Taiwan give a shit about white supremacy in the US? lol. You think people are magically more empathetic and will pick empathy over self-interest, just because they're not American? lol

Lots of Taiwanese that are anti-China support Trump because he's anti-China. If you want the Democratic Party to also start openly proclaiming Sinophobia or straight up supporting Taiwan's independence, then okay. That's one way to win over a very specific group of nonAmericans in another country.
 
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Tlozbj

Banned
Jun 26, 2020
608
Puerto Rico
This isn't a surprise, it was no secret that this communities were targeted with a heavy misinformation campaign. In the Latino group, it also didn't help that a lot of churches joined into the GOP propaganda machine. One of my mom's friends was one of those to fell into the trap, or well continue since she did the same thing in 2016 and went for Trump, but her excuse was majorly religious reason because of those ads + the copypasta of "Trump brought peace to the Middle East, he is so noble that he did not accept his salary and donates, he protects life since conception, yada yada yada".

It is also important to see how a lot of immigrants actually have the "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude and how the most well off try to assimilate entirely into their conservative surroundings, which include voting for the GOP. The Puertorrican Diaspora in Florida and Texas are good examples of this, they usually tend to be a lot more conservative than the Puertorrican Diaspora in New York and liberal states. In addition, there are a lot of immigrants that only vote for the GOP because they voted for the conservative party of their country, and simply vote for the GOP because they are the equivalent in the US. It seems stupid, but I have heard from various friends that move to the US, that their parents (before falling the conspiracy rabbit hole) only vote for the GOP because they saw them as the equivalent of PR's PNP.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
I really don't know what these people want. We bit our tongue and picked the least socialist/left wing Dem nominee possible, but we (leftists) will get blamed for any losses. So are we just supposed to never speak up or run for office?

Educate the people, push progressivism on the ground. Republican propaganda is destroying any chance of progressivism in this country.

My mother is a immigrant and she was worried about rioters. Implying immigrants, minorities are saints just for being minorities is dumb. They can be as ignorant, bigoted, and misled as anyone else.

Shit, we are chinese and trump being mean to China and banning whatsapp still didn't compare to rioters.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,108
i love how even when he's lost we will never stop getting articles and studies on who voted for him and why
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,715
How can Trump win Florida by a wide margin but the state also passes a $15 minimum wage? It's because these issues are nonpartisan and the Dems are failing to capitalize on that. Ironic considering Biden actually supports a $15 minimum wage.

I agree this example is very telling, but for a different reason than you do haha. I feel like stuff like this -- whether it's voting for a $15 minimum wage while voting for a president opposed to it, or voting to restore felons' voting rights while also electing Republicans who are making that as hard as possible -- highlights how voters view these things completely through the lens of partisan identity. It's imo not so much that the issues are nonpartisan and Dems are failing to capitalize on it, but voters may like an issue in a vacuum *until* it becomes associated with a politician, at which point the kneejerk political identity kicks in. So a voter may support a $15 minimum wage in theory, unless that policy is being explicitly pushed by a Democrat, in which case they may further support or further oppose that position because now it isn't a nonpartisan policy, it's a Democratic policy, and how they feel about Democrats will now more heavily influence their vote than how they feel about the issue itself.

I didn't say it was a panacea, just a path to victory. Beto got 48% of the total vote in his senate race and made the GOP nervous about losing Texas, compared to Hagar who only got 43% and the GOP barely batted an eye. I realize this is an apples to oranges comparison, but my point stands. The more successful Dem politicians have to build coalitions by uniting people over social and economic concerns. Biden got better about it, but the larger party hasn't learned and even for Biden it wasn't as good as it could have been.

I mean I definitely agree with the principle -- obviously building coalitions across people of different social and economic backgrounds is how you win elections! I was just saying, Beto himself has not been an example of that. And for all of Dems' problems with Latino voters, there aren't many people who've cracked this nut.

...except for Stacey Abrams! Who has been able to build coalitions of white, black, Latino, and AAPI voters in Georgia at the same time that Dem campaigns across the board were failing with Latino voters.

Like, the article doesn't even mention defund the police so it's interesting how people are once again trying to blame an activist movement on the election.
Well this is something actual voters, including immigrant and POC voters, have said after the fact. So, there's that. I know a lot of people make bad-faith arguments around this which are basically just tantamount to wanting to shut down activists. But you don't have to engage in that shit to also acknowledge the fact that it *was* a turn off to many voters, including and especially immigrant and POC voters!

No Democrat has endorsed Defund the Police, except AOC whom the party hates. Why don't people understand this? It's not a Dem platform. Voters chose Biden who is against protests and pro/neutral to police. It's individual protestors and activists... so are you going to tell them to stop saying that?
Yeah I know...that's why it's such a problem! Many people were voting against Democrats based on a platform that almost none of them had actually endorsed.
 
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samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Do you guys think it all comes down to irrational desperation? I'm genuinely curious because I can't wrap my head around it? Maybe there are just assholes everywhere, regardless of color/creed?
I do not really feel this is true. They made a bet and decided that they're better off with Trump than Biden. People make bad bets all the time. Sometimes what you think is a bad bet is a good bet by another metric.

I am reminded of this quote from this thread:
To the editor: Class, age, race, sex or gender? I'm more than just an African American.

I'm also an investor, and I, like any other investor, want to make money. I've almost doubled my net worth under Trump's presidency.

Shouldn't I reward the administration that has added to my net worth?

Robert S. Rodgers, Culver City
www.resetera.com

(LA Times) Opinion: We turned over our letters page to Trump readers for a day. Here’s what they wrote

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-11-14/handing-our-entire-letters-page-over-trump-voters Not sure there's any good in platforming these people, but LA times does it anyway/

I know most people don't think this way but immigrants have needs as well and they invest as well and they like seeing their stocks go up as much as white people, sometimes even more than white people because they believe they're building stability for their offspring. The urge to leave something behind to descendants is a huge part of every immigrant culture. Democrats need to start looking at immigrant communities as people instead of as votes.

Largely, you can throw Trump voters into one of two buckets, or both.

Social/ideological: "I voted Trump because liberals are too feminine, too gay, too socialist, too black, too godless, etc."
Financial: "I voted Trump because he makes the lines go up and lowered my tax burden."
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,882
Crazy even after all the anti immigration sentiment Trump and his cronies were spewing.
It will sound a bit nuts, but according to articles I've read, and my (anecdotal) conversations back in AZ...
A lot of immigrants are very much anti immigration, and can lean quite right if they are religious.
I think people who hope Dems should forever win simply due to large latino immigrant populations and shifting demos are in for a shock.
Imo, the big offsetter will be the mass passing away of boomers in a few years from now, not the latino population (though very engaged ones can be a force to reckon with, cf AZ this cycle).
Otoh, seeing lots of younger ones cheering for Trump was very unsettling at times tbh.
The black population (and college educated, to a point) is saving our hides right now, but for how long as we're already starting to see a cultural move of "fuck y'all got mine" here too?
 

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,916
Republican outreach to these groups is being way overblown. It consists of conspiracy adds on Facebook. Should dems try the same tactic? Running adds just to counter conspiracies is a losing proposition
 

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
How about just don't vote for the racist. I know Dems are trash and don't work for our vote but just hard is it to not vote for Trump?
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,037
I do not really feel this is true. They made a bet and decided that they're better off with Trump than Biden. People make bad bets all the time. Sometimes what you think is a bad bet is a good bet by another metric.

I am reminded of this quote from this thread:

www.resetera.com

(LA Times) Opinion: We turned over our letters page to Trump readers for a day. Here’s what they wrote

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-11-14/handing-our-entire-letters-page-over-trump-voters Not sure there's any good in platforming these people, but LA times does it anyway/

I know most people don't think this way but immigrants have needs as well and they invest as well and they like seeing their stocks go up as much as white people, sometimes even more than white people because they believe they're building stability for their offspring. The urge to leave something behind to descendants is a huge part of every immigrant culture. Democrats need to start looking at immigrant communities as people instead of as votes.

Largely, you can throw Trump voters into one of two buckets, or both.

Social/ideological: "I voted Trump because liberals are too feminine, too gay, too socialist, too black, too godless, etc."
Financial: "I voted Trump because he makes the lines go up and lowered my tax burden."

There's also the identity based "I voted Trump because he's tough and says things as it is" too. Appeals to a lot of working class immigrants I know.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
If trump gained so many voters why did he still lose by so much? Ya I don't think the problem is as big as media outlets will try to sell.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
How about just don't vote for the racist. I know Dems are trash and don't work for our vote but just hard is it to not vote for Trump?

My mother worried about rioters more than trump being a racist fuck. It's fuck you, got mine, it's sharing means I lose, it's fake news spreading like wildfire, it's Republican ideals like bootstraps that still hold a allure.

Incidentally, the way i shifted her vote was just telling her Dems would get her more money. (And no one's fucking rioting outside your fucking house and stop being racist mom) I'm a trusted person, why wouldn't she believe me and that's it, a vote for biden. Boom. Why we keep falling flat on our faces is Republicans get believed, Dems don't.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,715
Here in Texas the higher Hispanic vote for Trump directly correlated to his sending them a $1200 check with his name on it. They don't know Dems are the ones who fought to get it approved.

Of course far right and conservative groups also spent a ton of money pushing out propaganda to Hispanics online on social media.
This is something I'm guilty of as well, but I think people who think and talk about politics as much as we do, and engage in politics to the extent we do, still overestimate how much the average low-information voter knows what's going on. Many people are just totally tuned out of politics. Getting a $1200 check from the government with Trump's name on it is some of the most direct, explicit outreach many people have ever seen from a president. Most people have no idea that they got a tax cut from Obama's stimulus package in 2009. Everybody who got a check with Trump's name on it knows who it was from.

It's always weird how the Democrats have so much money behind them yet people often act like they are helpless against the media apparatus the Republicans have built up. They could easily fund their own counterpropaganda if they wanted to.
Liberal people consume news from a plethora of different outlets. Conservative people go to the same handful of sources. The Republican media apparatus is so effective because their audience is so centralized.

Conservatives are also more authoritarian prone in their thinking. I don't mean that they literally are more pro-fascist (although, that too lol) but that they defer to their political authority more often. Like on covid, Republicans tend to trust Trump most of all while Democrats trust scientists. Trump is not a scientist and his views on a vaccine are not peer reviewed, but that doesn't matter to Republicans: he's their leader, what he says carries the most weight.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
once covid hit, that was never gonna happen no matter who the candidate was. It does say the people shifting towards Trump likely didn't care about Covid though and in fact were receptive to get back to work.

Still the people the Democrats should've been on the ground talking to. Make them reject you, not allow it to happen passively with barely any effort.

I'm not really moved by the COVID excuse, especially after seeing what the mass protesting did during a raging pandemic with little trouble:
Voter registration surged during BLM protests, study finds (nbcnews.com)
Some of June's registration surge likely happened at the protests: Local reports from Los Angeles, California, to Kalamazoo, Michigan, detail voter registration efforts. Some activists posted QR codes on protest signs, so protesters could scan the code and begin the registration process on their phones.

In Minnesota, the heart of the demonstrations, there was a large spike that appears to have continued into July.

"Voter registration for Democrats nearly doubled in June from 17,000 in 2016 to 32,000 in 2020. Meanwhile, Republican registration essentially flat-lined at 17,000," TargetSmart wrote.

Democrats just didn't bother to make an actual effort; they assumed so much about this election due to faulty polling and hubris and they ate shit for it. They're going to eat even more shit in 2022 if they decide that the problem isn't them but it's actually just shitty deluded minorities and Defund the Police.

Man, Dems really are a party of castoffs.

I've been watching them fail my entire adult life, and we all might as well prep for this decade to look similar to the 2010s hell.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
If you want the Democratic Party to also start openly proclaiming Sinophobia or straight up supporting Taiwan's independence, then okay.
I do not want this but I would be lying if I said I'm not seeing an uptick in sinophobia from the Dems recently, so it's clear to me that that door is open for Dem strategists.
I don't want to, like, fearmonger but it can get many times worse. They have yet to reopen the anti-Asian internment camps. That is when you know shit is fucked, this is just a preview in comparison. Speaking from an American context.

I have thought about which country is the best to bail out to in the event of a Cold War between US and China.

I still remember this.
6nIfqKf.png

www.businessinsider.com

Joe Biden's latest ad said Trump 'rolled over for the Chinese' on coronavirus, and people are calling it racist and xenophobic

Joe Biden's latest presidential campaign ad accuses President Trump of being soft on China vis-à-vis the pandemic. People are calling it xenophobic.

Sinophobia is pervasive in Europe and North America, it is an issue that does not get a lot of attention for many reasons and part of the issue is we don't talk about the issue. And then the Sinophobia spills over to everyone who looks East Asian, just like how islamophobia hits anyone who's brown and Asiatic looking.

I'm not trying to pick on Taiwan here but I wanted to show what happens when you lose a specific battle in a global propaganda war and used the most recent example I can think of. I could pick up out Trumpers from Hong Kong, Japan, Germany, etc. I'm not going to list all of them here because it is a waste of time and not relevant to the topic at hand. My main point is there is a global propaganda war right now and immigrants will be affected by this war because they have connections to multiple cultures and Dems are not fighting this war on multiple fronts like I think they should.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
Trump didn't really talk about immigration on the 2020 campaign, as their campaign realise they had very little ground to gain with the white base that voted for him in the 2016 election. This is hardly surprising.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,442
As a latino, the prevalence of toxic male masculinity and religious values, this is of no surprise. Dems need to really put up a charismatic candidate next round and do a hell of a lot of groundwork to counteract all this.
The anti-Trump vote won't be there in 2024.
But neither will the Pro-Trump vote (if he dies or doesn't run). It works both ways, and it's unlikely whomever is next on the ticket will inspire the same kind of vitriol as Trump himself.
 

Neo C.

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,023
I've said before and will say it again: Never take the minority votes for granted. Not only in the US, but also in my country I've seen naturalized immigrants voting right-wing or are in favor of right-wing talking points. It's just a fact that lots of people are conservative or will vote conservative under certain circumstances.

Also it's not just old immigrants who will vote right-wing candidates.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Anyone surprised by this needs to spend more time around immigrants, especially first generation. I can only speak to Puerto Ricans as a Puerto Rican myself, but most of us are extremely conservative. The only reason you don't see it is because you don't speak Spanish.

this is true of many minorities though it's even more so for centra/southern Americans whoare fleeing leftist regimes

the GOP is not out of touch on most issues; if they could get over their extreme racism and the subsequent opposition to anything that helps minorities they would have a stranglehold on this country. Which is scary because they have no ability or interest as far as actually governing it
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,715
I do not really feel this is true. They made a bet and decided that they're better off with Trump than Biden. People make bad bets all the time. Sometimes what you think is a bad bet is a good bet by another metric.

I am reminded of this quote from this thread:

www.resetera.com

(LA Times) Opinion: We turned over our letters page to Trump readers for a day. Here’s what they wrote

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-11-14/handing-our-entire-letters-page-over-trump-voters Not sure there's any good in platforming these people, but LA times does it anyway/

I know most people don't think this way but immigrants have needs as well and they invest as well and they like seeing their stocks go up as much as white people, sometimes even more than white people because they believe they're building stability for their offspring. The urge to leave something behind to descendants is a huge part of every immigrant culture. Democrats need to start looking at immigrant communities as people instead of as votes.

Largely, you can throw Trump voters into one of two buckets, or both.

Social/ideological: "I voted Trump because liberals are too feminine, too gay, too socialist, too black, too godless, etc."
Financial: "I voted Trump because he makes the lines go up and lowered my tax burden."
There was a Gallup poll in September (that I'm glad I hadn't seen at the time) that found something like 56% of voters said they were better off now than four years. That's more than the share of people who said the same in 2012, 2004, 1996, and 1984. That Biden was able to unsent an incumbent president who most voters believed had left them economically better off is kind of a miracle.

Still the people the Democrats should've been on the ground talking to. Make them reject you, not allow it to happen passively with barely any effort.

I'm not really moved by the COVID excuse, especially after seeing what the mass protesting did during a raging pandemic with little trouble:
Voter registration surged during BLM protests, study finds (nbcnews.com)


Democrats just didn't bother to make an actual effort; they assumed so much about this election due to faulty polling and hubris and they ate shit for it. They're going to eat even more shit in 2022 if they decide that the problem isn't them but it's actually just shitty deluded minorities and Defund the Police.
Dems made a deliberate tactical decision not to do in-person canvassing. It was the strong decision, in hindsight, especially since we now know that distanced and masked door-knocking would have been just fine in terms of public health (for example, the BLM protests were not superspreader events, and as you noted actually helped drive Dem voter registrations). But you're framing it as a case of "Dems knew they had it in the bag and didn't want to do any work" which I just don't think is true at all. Jen O'Malley Dillon's internal poll numbers were much much closer to the final results than basically any public poll. They always knew it was going to be close and said as much. How many times did the official @JoeBiden handle tweet out "Don't pay attention to the polls"?

Also, this idea that Dems didn't put in work is really ridiculous anyway. GA Dems didn't put in work? AZ Dems didn't put in work? Wisconsin Dems and Michigan Dems and Minnesota Dems didn't work? Hell, Texas was a bust, but those people fucking worked at it and would've been an even bigger blowout if they hadn't. It's insulting to say Democrats didn't bother to make any effort -- millions of people worked really hard, not just in the states we won but the states we lost too. It was really shitty that Susan Collins won by 9 points but it's not because the people on the Gideon campaign were sitting on their asses all year.
 

Noog

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 1, 2018
2,910
It cannot be overstated how effective the right wing fear mongering is. I know countless people in real life who see Joe Biden as a socialist who is going to take the money of hardworking Americans and give it to unemployed people who don't bother getting a job. I see a ton of people who believe that Biden wants to abolish the police.

Not to mention the fact that wedge issues like gun control and abortion keep people voting republicans.

Not to mention racism and homophobia which are very rampant in certain people.