• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,727
The sudden influx of low post count accounts coming into the thread apparently SUPER KNOWLEDGEABLE about Era is a really good indication of why a public discussion about moderation and the community is not possible. 👍
You're being overly defensive. Many have posted thoughtful critiques of ERA's stances on transparency. Ignore the trash.

And I don't blame the mods here. The mods are not responsible for the site's direction. They only enforce the TOS.

There's a lack of leadership and it keeps showing itself whenever any metacommentary comes up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,735
Even if it was hundreds of people. Look at how many members we have and look at the posts calling out mods and trying to talk sense into people. This community is not defined by the members who discounted Etika's behavior.

But it is.

Those members who commented like that got away scott free.

There was no condemnation for their words, there was no calling them out by the moderation team. Them being allowed to say what they said and nothing happened is representative of the forum.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,633
Chicago
Okay, but what exactly would talking more about his plight on this forum have done? There was nothing to be done by any forumites that would have changed this outcome. Voicing concerns is great, and I agree wholeheartedly that the callous tone people generally take up on this site (the Era has an empathy problem thread is great) is beyond fucked... But in all honesty, this forum had zero input on this whole event, positive or negative. His close friends and family didn't affect the outcome. What could any one of us have done differently?

Have integrity.
 

Sparkedglory2

Member
Nov 3, 2017
6,445
This is my biggest issue with this community. There is no forgiveness or benefit of the doubt (when applicable). Someone says X, And the community immediately damns them to hell. Now...its backfired.

Sometimes the best way to approach certain behavior, is with love in your hearts. Not anger and outrage.
I absolutely agree with this.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
The sudden influx of low post count accounts coming into the thread apparently SUPER KNOWLEDGEABLE about Era is a really good indication of why a public discussion about moderation and the community is not possible. 👍
No shit. Lots of axes to grind huh. Love those screenshots of bans completely out of context too. Absolutely putrid and disingenuous.
 

Chariot

Member
Oct 26, 2017
141
Hamburg
I hate that a thread about a very young man taking his own life has turned into forum drama, but it's not a resetera problem it's a society problem we can do better for mental health and removing the stigma surrounding it.
No, this didn't "turn" into a forum drama. This was already drama from the point of time on discussion about this issue was shut down before. People tried to talk about attitudes about mental health, people tried to talk about the moderation before this thread. Guess what? The threads were locked, discussion was shut down and this is an issue.
 

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
wow. I watched that video of him someone here linked the other day. I don't know the whole story but he was obviously very stressed out in it. Makes me sad that it went this far. Way way too young. All I can say to others in this community is that sometimes we make mistakes and life can seem very overwhelming because of said mistakes, especially under the microscope of the internet. But please please don't let it get the best of you. Things can and will get better. This makes me very sad. 😞
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I hate that a thread about a very young man taking his own life has turned into forum drama, but it's not a resetera problem it's a society problem we can do better for mental health and removing the stigma surrounding it.

It's a society problem, but it's also very much a ResetEra problem. The forum culture allowed that other thread to happen. It's nausea inducing in retrospect. I feel physically ill reading some of the posts that happened.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
The amount of fucking YouTubers who weren't even aware of the guy until NOW, using his name for easy clicks during this time of tragedy have got me fucking livid. That shit ain't fucking right.

Also fuck that gnome looking ass Keemstar for egging Etika on and making a fucking show out of a human being who clearly needed to get help.
These Drama Youtubers always do that, they're vultures fam. Profiting over what's 'fresh' to get as much hits as possible.
I'm glad I haven't seen a single recommended video from these bastards.
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
The sudden influx of low post count accounts coming into the thread apparently SUPER KNOWLEDGEABLE about Era is a really good indication of why a public discussion about moderation and the community is not possible. 👍

I wouldn't use that as an excuse not to discuss the state of the community though, which is a valid discussion despite the events that brought us to it.
 

Sawneeks

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,864
Thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry for your loss.

I only had the faintest idea of who Etika was until about a week ago, but there is a pattern around here of an unhealthy and unempathetic relationship to celebrity, and it's high time for the people complicit in this culture to take some responsibility. I only wish it didn't have to take an event like this.

Unless you have that order of magnitude of followers on your channels or social media, you truly have no idea how much pressure and scrutiny you are under day to day, even as a minor public figure. And yet we enable people who blow up every perceived transgression into an industry headline, as though they were doing some kind of noble service to the world as the only ones who will ever hold social media personalities to account. Everything is unforgivable and everything is permanently attached to your name. Can't have a conversation about them without someone butting in edgewise and dropping the opposition dossier, hiding under the excuse of keeping everyone informed, when all it amounts to is gossip and salacious gawking.

It's not enough to "talk" about mental illness and suicidality when for a high-visibility figure, talk just invites more goading and hands out more ammunition to be used against you.

All my sympathies to those who held him dear.





Good posts. I'm glad to see some open blowback here against site policies that can only be described with one word—cowardice—and which can be said to be actively causing harm. (The comparison to "thoughts and prayers" is especially inspired.)

Apparently we can't talk about moderation without inviting the trolls, so we can't talk about moderation. Does the staff not realize that this policy only serves to feed the trolls? They have no shortage of oppositional communities and back-channel gossip boards to run off to and complain, while the people least able to have their voices heard are the ones who mostly want to be here, who contribute to this place, who want to see it be better, and would strongly prefer to steer clear of those other places. Everybody gets a word in about Era except for those of us who want to use it.

Those who want to trash this place in bad faith have no limit of places to go. Those who want to improve this place in good faith have nowhere to go. It's the same familiar absurdity as providing written ban reasons to put on a charade of transparency, but burying them instead of making them available in a readily accessible in-house log. The policies here have created a situation where it is more convenient for those with minor grievances to run off to self-declared enemies who wear their bans proudly on their sleeves. Does the staff not see how this undermines the community's integrity? How that has only deepened the climate of paranoia where enemy trolls are around every dark corner, ready to strike? Do they not see the utter lack of trust and confidence in hashing anything out over PMs when the public face of the moderation team, ex-mods included, is one of condescension, snide dismissiveness, and shameless apologism for their own?



Quite right.

Those who have normalized this, by participation or by policy, are neither innocent bystanders nor paragons of accountability. They are enablers; they are gossips.
Agreed with all of this. Wish we could discuss this elsewhere and not in a thread like this too.
 
Jun 17, 2019
397
I get why people are upset that people are using this thread to talk about some of his poor behavior, but honestly - speaking as someone who also has severe mental health issues that are often times almost as bad as Etika's were, I actually think now is a good time to talk about that stuff so we can use this as an opportunity to learn about how mental illness effects people and develop more understanding for people that are suffering from it.
 

Noog

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 1, 2018
2,894
To be honest, I'm not engrained enough in this community to comment on the moderation system, that said, that thread is filled with horrific things being said, with bans going to the people fighting back against the horrific things.

Moderation aside, as a community, sometimes people need to understand that not everything needs their input. Maybe your thoughts on a guy who is missing, with a history of mental illness, suicide threats, etc., isn't relevant or necessary for other to hear. This is a video game forum first and foremost. Your thoughts of Link's Awakening's 30 FPS is not the same as Etika or his death.
 

Deleted member 12867

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,623
No, this didn't "turn" into a forum drama. This was already drama from the point of time on discussion about this issue was shut down before. People tried to talk about attitudes about mental health, people tried to talk about the moderation before this thread. Guess what? The threads were locked, discussion was shut down and this is an issue.
I get it. it's fucked up. It just feels wrong having these discussions in this thread. Guy was really young and had a lot of obvious calls for help. People mistake self destruction for attention seeking and that's just not a problem here it's a problem everywhere.
 

Kamek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,981
Apparently we can't talk about moderation without inviting the trolls, so we can't talk about moderation. Does the staff not realize that this policy only serves to feed the trolls? They have no shortage of oppositional communities and back-channel gossip boards to run off to and complain, while the people least able to have their voices heard are the ones who mostly want to be here, who contribute to this place, who want to see it be better, and would strongly prefer to steer clear of those other places. Everybody gets a word in about Era except for those of us who want to use it.

Those who want to trash this place in bad faith have no limit of places to go. Those who want to improve this place in good faith have nowhere to go. It's the same familiar absurdity as providing written ban reasons to put on a charade of transparency, but burying them instead of making them available in a readily accessible in-house log. The policies here have created a situation where it is more convenient for those with minor grievances to run off to self-declared enemies who wear their bans proudly on their sleeves. Does the staff not see how this undermines the community's integrity? How that has only deepened the climate of paranoia where enemy trolls are around every dark corner, ready to strike? Do they not see the utter lack of trust and confidence in hashing anything out over PMs when the public face of the moderation team, ex-mods included, is one of condescension, snide dismissiveness, and shameless apologism for their own?



Quite right.

Those who have normalized this, by participation or by policy, are neither innocent bystanders nor paragons of accountability. They are enablers; they are gossips.

This is a brilliant post, and I hope you don't get banned for it. I've wanted to make a thread about this for so long, but every thread I've seen made has been locked. I think your assessment is spot on, and I hope the community as a whole, moderation included, changes for the better.

Everybody gets a word in about Era except for those of us who want to use it.

This was brilliantly said.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
Somewhere
Man, what a tragedy.

And already, the typical pieces of shit that feed on drama are vulturing. Keemstar and Boogie - how does Twitter allow them a platform still?
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
I wouldn't use that as an excuse not to discuss the state of the community though, which is a valid discussion despite the events that brought us to it.

This

I'm seeing way too many posts trying to pre-emptively shutdown discussion, with the subtext being that the "status quo" is okay. Which is extremely disturbing to me.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329
New York City
But it is.

Those members who commented like that got away scott free.

There was no condemnation for their words, there was no calling them out by the moderation team. Them being allowed to say what they said and nothing happened is representative of the forum.
I don't agree. The issues here are highlighted because of the pushback against toxic behavior. On many other forums it woudlnt be an issue because whatever community that would actually represent that space would be far more accepting of those comments and there would be less discourse. We can improve the mods can improve. everyone can improve. Era's empathy problem is everyone's problem and is not esclusive to Era.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,865
I get it. it's fucked up. It just feels wrong having these discussions in this thread. Guy was really young and had a lot of obvious calls for help. People mistake self destruction for attention seeking and that's just not a problem here it's a problem everywhere.

Exactly. A lot of people on the edge of suicide are lampooned or outright criticized for "seeking attention" when a cry for help is literally the person seeking attention so that they can address the problem that's destroying them. Of course they want attention, it's the last defense mechanism of the human brain before it descends to a point at which it can't be stopped.

We (as in humans, not just Era) can't vilify people for crying out for help, because all that's doing is pushing them further over the edge into the abyss.
 

Deleted member 12867

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,623
It's a society problem, but it's also very much a ResetEra problem. The forum culture allowed that other thread to happen. It's nausea inducing in retrospect. I feel physically ill reading some of the posts that happened.
I agree. I mispoke when I said it's not a resetera problem when I should have said it's not just a resetera problem and I'll edit that right now.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,267
Apparently we can't talk about moderation without inviting the trolls, so we can't talk about moderation. Does the staff not realize that this policy only serves to feed the trolls? They have no shortage of oppositional communities and back-channel gossip boards to run off to and complain, while the people least able to have their voices heard are the ones who mostly want to be here, who contribute to this place, who want to see it be better, and would strongly prefer to steer clear of those other places. Everybody gets a word in about Era except for those of us who want to use it.

Those who want to trash this place in bad faith have no limit of places to go. Those who want to improve this place in good faith have nowhere to go. It's the same familiar absurdity as providing written ban reasons to put on a charade of transparency, but burying them instead of making them available in a readily accessible in-house log. The policies here have created a situation where it is more convenient for those with minor grievances to run off to self-declared enemies who wear their bans proudly on their sleeves. Does the staff not see how this undermines the community's integrity? How that has only deepened the climate of paranoia where enemy trolls are around every dark corner, ready to strike? Do they not see the utter lack of trust and confidence in hashing anything out over PMs when the public face of the moderation team, ex-mods included, is one of condescension, snide dismissiveness, and shameless apologism for their own?
I think this is must-read material for the moderation team.
 

mocolostrocolos

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
970
I will always remember his video with that 3d-printed Switch wearing just his undies.

It made me laugh very hard.
 

Deleted member 13645

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,052
God, this was hard to see when glancing at the news today. He had obviously been struggling with mental health for a while and it eventually was too much for him. I can only imagine being in his shoes and not being able to get the help I needed and feeling the walls closing in. RIP Etika.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,633
Chicago
You earned this mods

This is not all on the mods at all. They are in a situation where they cannot win. I do think they misfired quite a bit in this situation but that's only a fraction of the larger issue.

We, the community, are just as responsible for how shitty we looked during this entire thing. I was personally rooting for Etika because I think there is more to a person than the hurtful things we can say and do. But I don't expect that of anyone, that's just me, I cannot change or have thoughts for others. I can only try and understand, I'm an empath to fault sometimes and I hate it.

Some people can't just see passed the negatives--it is what it is. As lame as that sounds.
 

Omnicore

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,378
Vancouver
RIP, his reaction hype videos were legendary and unmatched. He may not have been everyone's cup of tea but he sure was entertaining. He will be missed.
 

Chiramii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Norway
This is my biggest issue with this community. There is no forgiveness or benefit of the doubt (when applicable). Someone says X, And the community immediately damns them to hell. Now...its backfired.

Sometimes the best way to approach certain behavior, is with love in your hearts. Not anger and outrage.
Could not have said it better myself. The fact some people can jump at the first opportunity that presents itself to flip someone off is just sickening. It's as if there's no middleground, just a binary value. 0 or 1.

"I don't know this person, but this person said/did something bad, so fuck him.", Or "This is the hero we need, but don't deserve.". Then the worshipping runs until this person has a slip-up too, then fuck this person as well.

Get a fucking grip.


Rest in peace, Desmond. You slipped through the cracks when you needed help the most. I hope that you are in a good place now, because you absolutely deserve it. My thoughts and prayers goes out to family and friends.
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Because they refuse to host an discussion on how they responded and lack of response beforehand, to the point where it only makes matters worse, drawing outside attention.


Oh, i wonder how level headed was the discussion on reddit, youtube, twitch or facebook.

Singling out ERA for this stuff is so silly, when every other site is far worse in how it actually moderates itself and the discussion. At least here people have still the decency of not using derogative terms like the r, or n word to attack each other and look cool and edgy.

But hey, let's keep the crusade against ERA libs, that will show them!!!111!!1
 

Chariot

Member
Oct 26, 2017
141
Hamburg
I get it. it's fucked up. It just feels wrong having these discussions in this thread. Guy was really young and had a lot of obvious calls for help. People mistake self destruction for attention seeking and that's just not a problem here it's a problem everywhere.
The easy solution would be to allow discussion outside of the thread. But it's now allowed: https://www.resetera.com/threads/era-has-a-real-empathy-problem.124496/

And that's why people push for it here because there isn't really another place within the forum to do that.
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
Because people take incredibly small sample sizes and use that as representative of a website with thousands of members and hundreds of threads each day. Leading to metacommentary posts like this:
Those kind of post literally dont even make sense. And I rarely see them
Quiet back room discussions won't cause change
And doesn't do anything but allow someone to mute you in private discussion and tell you why you're wrong privately. I always had a problem when people said that. Like why cant we discuss things together? Why? Why is that so frowned upon?
 

pokéfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,307
It's embarrassing and shocking, moderators need to step up and do their job, how you let people get away with it saying heartless comments.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
5,349
UK
This is a rough read. Poor guy. It never needs to come to this. This isn't the answer for anyone, and I'm sad to see he couldn't get the help he needed. Mental illness is never simple, it's not something you can just take antibiotics for and be right as rain. It's rough. RIP Etika.

I hope his family and friends will be alright.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,641
Oh, i wonder how level headed was the discussion on reddit, youtube, twitch or facebook.

Singling out ERA for this stuff is so silly, when every other site is far worse in how it actually moderates itself and the discussion. At least here people have still the decency of not using derogative terms like the r, or n word to attack each other and look cool and edgy.

But hey, let's keep the crusade against ERA libs, that will show them!!!111!!1
While there's definitely a lot of what you said goign on, introspection isn't unwarranted.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,605
It's simply impossible to read threads without posting in them.
When your first post in a month's time is about how the community is conveniently during a time where some members are genuinely concerned out of emotion then no I don't think you're being genuine. Especially when a quick look at posting histories reveals a repeat of that exact
-being dormant---->commenting only to make metacommentary on Era specifically:

ERA is beyond infamous for being gaming's neoliberal ground zero.

Just a thought. 👍
 

Deleted member 32679

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,787
Oh, i wonder how level headed was the discussion on reddit, youtube, twitch or facebook.

Singling out ERA for this stuff is so silly, when every other site is far worse in how it actually moderates itself and the discussion. At least here people have still the decency of not using derogative terms like the r, or n word to attack each other and look cool and edgy.

But hey, let's keep the crusade against ERA libs, that will show them!!!111!!1
This. As if they were having fair and balanced discussions
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Man it's only just hit me that he was only 29. Not even as old as the first Nintendo console. Not even close really. What an awful, awful tragedy.
 

Deleted member 225

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
Stop blaming mommy and daddy for your mistakes, in this case the mods being mommy and daddy. This community shouldn't need to be told it isn't ok to attacking people, especially those with OBVIOUS mental health issues. We shouldn't need the mods to tell us what is and what isn't ok. This whole ordeal is an issue with this community itself.
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
1,134
The day any community refuses to examine and criticise itself is the day the slide into the gutter begins. I'm also firmly of the belief that this must always start at the top. Attempts to shut down that conversation and examination just turns this thread into more "thoughts and prayers".
 

NLCPRESIDENT

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,969
Midwest
RIP. This makes me want to fkn cry. Regardless of whatever people's problems were with him, I remember him for his optimism and enthusiasm for gaming. Such an entertaining and loving person... this is horrible news. Just horrible.

Rest in peace man.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
I will always remember his Xenoblade 2 reaction videos. Holy shit was the dude hype, it was contagious.

RIP man, hope you're happy wherever you are now. :(
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,644
Good posts. I'm glad to see some open blowback here against site policies that can only be described with one word—cowardice—and which can be said to be actively causing harm. (The comparison to "thoughts and prayers" is especially inspired.)

Apparently we can't talk about moderation without inviting the trolls, so we can't talk about moderation. Does the staff not realize that this policy only serves to feed the trolls? They have no shortage of oppositional communities and back-channel gossip boards to run off to and complain, while the people least able to have their voices heard are the ones who mostly want to be here, who contribute to this place, who want to see it be better, and would strongly prefer to steer clear of those other places. Everybody gets a word in about Era except for those of us who want to use it.

Those who want to trash this place in bad faith have no limit of places to go. Those who want to improve this place in good faith have nowhere to go. It's the same familiar absurdity as providing written ban reasons to put on a charade of transparency, but burying them instead of making them available in a readily accessible in-house log. The policies here have created a situation where it is more convenient for those with minor grievances to run off to self-declared enemies who wear their bans proudly on their sleeves. Does the staff not see how this undermines the community's integrity? How that has only deepened the climate of paranoia where enemy trolls are around every dark corner, ready to strike? Do they not see the utter lack of trust and confidence in hashing anything out over PMs when the public face of the moderation team, ex-mods included, is one of condescension, snide dismissiveness, and shameless apologism for their own?

Thank you, you articulated what I've been having trouble putting into words.