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Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,683
Ibis Island
I have no faith in this news meaning the future of COD will still have SP.
Activision just doesn't strike me as the sort of company that'll go out of their way for it.
 
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TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Hilarious that you guys thought it would.

Unsurprising considering battle royale is a far better addition than single player would have been, and provides far more value for money.

I hope that more devs will decide to put in such interesting MP modes instead of an SP campaign in the future.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,866
Honestly? I don't blame Activision/Treyarch at all here. Obligatory campaigns are stupid. I wish other games would take note *cough*Battlefield*cough*. I'd much rather have a extremely quality mutliplayer experience than a boring-ass, by-the-numbers campaign and middling multiplayer. Put those resources toward a full multiplayer game instead.

Last gen people complained about "tacked-on multiplayer." Well, tacked-on single-player exists too.

Now to be fair, I haven't played a Call of Duty campaign in years -- the last one being Black Ops, so I can't speak for their quality anymore. And I'm not sure how many people still care for their campaigns, so maybe I'm wrong here in COD's case, but my overall point still stands.

And I'll never understand the people who adamantly think multiplayer games should not be full price.

There'll always be Nintendo and Sony to save us.

This is true. Plus indies as well. I know a lot of people write off indie devs, but they have been massively improving in terms of scope. You can easily find quality single-player indie experiences that are pretty polished these days.

As far as Sony and Nintendo go, I think they're both safe bets for getting SP games for years to come. Sony has seen unprecedented success with their franchises since focusing on single-player, and Nintendo has kept their massive success as well.

I'm way out of the loop, but the only single player campaign I EVER heard anyone universally say they enjoyed was COD4: Modern Warfare. And mostly for the nuke scene.

COD1 and 2?

wait, are you talking strictly about COD games or campaigns overall?
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,457
It's funny seeing people who played COD campaigns view these sales as some big statement against SP games, when the reality is that very few people bought cod for the campaign. its long been seen as an irrelevant piece of content for most of the fanbase.
AI would love some numbers, cause the campaigns always felt like a 4 hour tutorial. Not worth 60+. Maybe Infinity War's if it was longer, cause it was really good
 

darthbob

One Winged Slayer - Shinra Employee
Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,020
It makes sense to cut out SP when a small portion of players play it and refocus efforts on a more long term player engagement mode.

Still, I liked CoD campaigns, always felt like a Michael Bay movie in video game form.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,907
I am out of the loop when it comes to COD DLC but do Zombies still get specific DLC? If so then they are not getting rid of it.

Zombies gets 1 map every map pack. BO1 final DLC was only zombies and BO3 had an extra map pack as well that still sells.

Zombies is simply too big for them to drop. It's a big selling point for a sizable amount of CoD players.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I know you're kidding... but yeah SP games are very alive and very well. Plenty of room in the market for all kinds of games.

And who knows, maybe adding a campaign would have helped the game sell even more.

Big takeaway lately is that no one rule can be applied as a blanket to the entire market.

I get what your saying Mat, and i'm glad your trying to cheer me up, but it makes me dejected all the same. These companies know that for every sale of GTA5 or RDR2, their live multiplayer services will sell far more in the long run, and that sentiment is only picking up steam as more and more people fall into these types of games and spend more money on them.

So i feel its inevitable that they will just weigh the cost of the single player audience versus the money train they know will continue to grow in the multiplayer audience and just make that decision. The writing seems to be on the wall

Sony and Nintendo care about single player games and that's great, but in the end, they too will likely succumb, they are only two publishers in a sea of multiplayer service oriented publishers now. Even bethesda has tried to hop on the multiplayer train. And granted it didnt work too well, but it was their execution. if they had done it right, it probably would have charted a different course for them
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
I know you're kidding... but yeah SP games are very alive and very well. Plenty of room in the market for all kinds of games.

And who knows, maybe adding a campaign would have helped the game sell even more.

Big takeaway lately is that no one rule can be applied as a blanket to the entire market.

Maybe it would have brought in a few more sales, but would you not say it was a much better choice by Treyarch to sacrifice the campaign if it meant making a better battle royale mode? Battle royale was a crucial selling point of BO4 this year imo, something which an SP campaign just couldn't have matched.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Second, does anyone play COD SP really?
Millions of people do. In fact, more people play Call of Duty campaigns each year than play most AA singleplayer titles. People who talk about the games "only" having 25-40% completion rates seem to forget that 25-40% of a game that sells 10-30 million copies is a lot of people.
Maybe it would have brought in a few more sales, but would you not say it was a much better choice by Treyarch to sacrifice the campaign if it meant making a better battle royale mode? Battle royale was a crucial selling point of BO4 this year imo, something which an SP campaign just couldn't have matched.
Think about it this way. They could make more money paying Toys for Bob to make Call of Duty content, but they chose to allocate them to make Spyro instead. Spyro and Crash Bandicoot are significantly less lucrative than multiplayer games, but diversification of a portfolio is ideal. It's not about raw copies sold. It's about reaching different demographics to maintain a strong hold on the market. It's the reason why EA started putting campaigns in Battlefield games. They sold extremely well without them, but they could sell more copies to a wider audience if their games had story-driven content.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Plenty of people have played COD campaigns in the past. Like 1, 2, MW1, MW2

I don't know about nowdays though. I stopped with BO1, that was garbage
Black Ops 1 has an amazing campaign. What didn't you like about it? Excellent mindscrew plot, Gary Oldman giving the performance of a lifetime, spectacular set pieces, and more. It's arguably David Goyer's best work.

Black Ops 2 is not necessarily as strong but it has an amazing plot, amazing soundtrack, and choices with real consequences which was a huge shakeup for the series.

The exceptional quality of Black Ops 1 and 2 is why Black Ops 3 was such a disappointment and why Black Ops 4's campaign being canned hurts so much. These developers made absolutely incredible singleplayer FPS games, and there's no indication we'll see another from them until at least 2021. Fortunately, Infinity Ward and Sledgehammer should deliver.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Think about it this way. They could make more money paying Toys for Bob to make Call of Duty content, but they chose to allocate them to make Spyro instead. Spyro and Crash Bandicoot are significantly less lucrative than multiplayer games, but diversification of a portfolio is ideal. It's not about raw copies sold. It's about reaching different demographics to maintain a strong hold on the market. It's the reason why EA started putting campaigns in Battlefield games. They sold extremely well without them, but they could sell more copies to a wider audience if their games had story-driven content.

That's a good point, but I think this decision shows that they just don't feel the SP playing demographic provided enough value to them in the current market when it comes to Call of Duty. Specifically, I think battle royale in this case widened their audience and solidified the game's hold in the market more than a SP campaign would have.
 

Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
COD campaigns are awful, and Blackout is actually pretty fun. It's a huge upgrade for the series as far as I'm concerned.
 

imbarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Arguably if they had done the leap of breaking zombies out into a separate product, BO 4 would need Blackout, Multiplayers, and an SP campaign to feel as meaty.
Zombies is so much a separate thing in the product in terms of progression, etc. I never touch it.
Would the two products have sold better than the one?
 

Rust

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,236
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare still has one of the best single player story campaigns in FPS history.
It's a real shame it's been reduced to this.
 

Deleted member 47843

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Sep 16, 2018
2,501
Millions of people do. In fact, more people play Call of Duty campaigns each year than play most AA singleplayer titles. People who talk about the games "only" having 25-40% completion rates seem to forget that 25-40% of a game that sells 10-30 million copies is a lot of people.

The real question, though, is how many of those people who completed the campaigns still bought this iteration with no campaign? I'd imagine a lot of the hardcore online players also took the time to beat the campaign eventually.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,116
the Netherlands
I am out of the loop when it comes to COD DLC but do Zombies still get specific DLC? If so then they are not getting rid of it.
Yup, and it's bigger than ever. Infinity Ward and Sledgehammer have also adopted Zombies as the coop mode in their games, all games get at least 4 Zombies maps as DLC (Black Ops 4 has already gotten 1 as a Season Pass bonus and will get another 4). And for Black Ops 3 Treyarch released a 5th map pack containing 8 Zombies maps remakes a year and a half after release at 30 bucks, and it was a massive success, becoming the best selling DLC of 2017 on PSN and they've already hinted that they'll be doing the same for Black Ops 4. Black Ops 4 launched with 3 maps on disc as well, more than any other CoD game.
Zombies isn't going anywhere, it's a reason many people buy the game and it's DLC.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
That's a good point, but I think this decision shows that they just don't feel the SP playing demographic provided enough value to them in the current market when it comes to Call of Duty. Specifically, I think battle royale in this case widened their audience and solidified the game's hold in the market more than a SP campaign would have.
Black Ops 4's campaign was canned, according to rumours, because it was terrible. Some claim that Activision stepped in directly to kill it because they were not pleased, others claim it was not up to snuff and Treyarch killed it themselves. (And based on the sound of what was scrapped, it would have particularly pissed off singleplayer fans.) There's no indication Activision have any plans to discontinue Call of Duty plans at any point in the near future. The troubled sequel to an near-universally disliked campaign was snuffed out during development. That doesn't indicate all that much for the future other than that Treyarch seem to have severe internal issues. (Black Ops 3 reportedly had a train go boom development cycle where the game's entire plot was changed during development.)

Battlefront I was missing a campaign because its development was rushed to meet Episode 7's release date. Yet Battlefront II had a campaign. It wasn't a good campaign, but it was a campaign. Future Star Wars games from EA all seem to have singleplayer or at least what might be called "story content". If that includes co-op storytelling, so be it.

We are likely getting Modern Warfare 4 next year, and there's no reason to think it won't have a campaign. We don't know what Sledgehammer are working on. It's possibly either Infinite Warfare 2 or something else. Whether it'll have a campaign we can only speculate on. But there's little to indicate otherwise.
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
Black ops is their biggest sub franchise, and this game made less than the last Call of Duty which had a single player. How can you say it didn't hurt them?
 

Fiel

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,265
BR just save their arse to be honest.

They use % cleared of BO3 worst campaign in history of COD as excuse that player didn't want to play SP campaign anymore.

The last hope would be MW4. Please, by the love of god, launch with brand new campaign that explore more on character of MW series we all know and love. can it be in between or continuation of story are fine by me.

And don't forget MW theme BR. I will jump in Day1. want to play as Soap/Captain Price in BR.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,966
people thought the vocal minority of people who buy cod games for their single player campaign were significant enough to effect sales?
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Black Ops 4's campaign was canned, according to rumours, because it was terrible. Some claim that Activision stepped in directly to kill it because they were not pleased, others claim it was not up to snuff and Treyarch killed it themselves. (And based on the sound of what was scrapped, it would have particularly pissed off singleplayer fans.) There's no indication Activision have any plans to discontinue Call of Duty plans at any point in the near future. The troubled sequel to an near-universally disliked campaign was snuffed out during development. That doesn't indicate all that much for the future other than that Treyarch seem to have severe internal issues. (Black Ops 3 reportedly had a train go boom development cycle where the game's entire plot was changed during development.)

Battlefront I was missing a campaign because its development was rushed to meet Episode 7's release date. Yet Battlefront II had a campaign. It wasn't a good campaign, but it was a campaign. Future Star Wars games from EA all seem to have singleplayer or at least what might be called "story content". If that includes co-op storytelling, so be it.

We are likely getting Modern Warfare 4 next year, and there's no reason to think it won't have a campaign. We don't know what Sledgehammer are working on. It's possibly either Infinite Warfare 2 or something else. Whether it'll have a campaign we can only speculate on. But there's little to indicate otherwise.

Of course, I expect Infinity Ward and Sledgehammer to continue with campaigns for the time being. Black Ops campaigns have also been getting steadily worse so that's another reason they didn't pay it much attention this time too.

However, if having a campaign was as valuable as you say then I don't think they would have been so willing to leave it out without even some token attempt at releasing a salvaged version. Treyarch would also have had limited time and resources before having to push out BO4 for launch, and it's clear that they decided to prioritise battle royale over the story campaign.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
However, if having a campaign was as valuable as you say then I don't think they would have been so willing to leave it out without even some token attempt at releasing a salvaged version. Treyarch would also have had limited time and resources before having to push out BO4 for launch, and it's clear that they decided to prioritise battle royale over the story campaign.
My impression is that the game seriously struggled to ship a working product at launch. They were in a panic because in 2017, playtesters were responding extremely negatively towards Black Ops IV's multiplayer modes. The Battle Royale was developed by Raven, IIRC, and I think it was originally commissioned because the game was perceived as lacking in content and they were worried that the content they did have wouldn't carry the game. The campaign was beyond saving. The game's multiplayer was getting extremely negative feedback. They had to try and salvage the game in a very short span of time, and admittedly they did a pretty admirable job. They took a frantic disaster of a game and transformed it, Bungie-style, into the best selling game of the year with solid reviews.
 

Slim

Banned
Sep 24, 2018
2,846
Honestly, CoD campaigns have been going downhill for several years now. It's no surprise they opted out after BO3's horrendous SP. The BR (and extra zombies) part is a lot better imo.
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
I think this is kind of a good thing. Games can be more focused on what they do best, be it multiplayer or single-player. The success of a multiplayer game doesn't negate the sales of recent hits like GOW, BoTW, Odyssey, and Spider-Man. And all of those don't require servers and maintenance.

I didn't pick up the new COD, but I did hear that the multiplayer aspect is really fleshed out and well done.

Hopefully one day Activision will release a campaign-focused COD.

Which also makes me wonder how long it'll be until COD goes full GaaS.
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
3,951
Sales would be even higher if they had of made a 6 hour campaign. It's a real shame that bo3 and bo4 are SP duds. Hopefully the next 2 cods have both single player and battle to royale. Bo1 campaign was excellent. Bo2 was a bit confusing but still good.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
To be perfectly honest I've always felt that the average CoD fan doesn't have very high standards or expectations for new entries in the franchise anyway. Even here on ERA there were folks who stated they were not gonna pick this up because of the cut single player but did the exact opposite anyway. It's literally the cycle of this franchises fanbase. They keep falling for the hype no matter what Activision does that negatively affects the game.