Netherlands update: +573 cases +43 deaths
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RIVM: 43 mensen overleden, NL-Alert verstuurd over 1,5 meter afstand
In dit liveblog lees je de laatste ontwikkelingen over het coronavirus.
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Assuming you don't live downtown, people should be free to go out for a walk or run. I come within six feet of someone maybe one time for 10 seconds while being out for an hour. The physical and mental health benefits of being outside far outweigh the risks if you aren't in a very dense area.
Except that's not true?
(I, apparently, can't read: It is true, if you're in the vecinity of your home, alone, and keep 3m distance)
It was (still is?) banned in China. It's banned in Italy. It's banned in Spain.
Do you think we wouldn't like going out for a walk? These are extreme measures and are taken for a reason. This is not a fucking game.
I haven't left home FOR A MINUTE in 10 days. It's tough but it's the responsible thing to do.
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But not everyone will be out and about at the same time.
It's the same bullshit argument being used when talking about electric vehicles. What if everyone just charges them at the same time?! Something that will never happen.
You guys really need to step back and think rationally about this. Infecting someone through the air is almost impossible. It needs direct contact.
It is a good idea.
A virologist (Dr. Drosten) mentioned in his podcast that it is not dangerous to go for a walk or a jog etc.
Also from the WHO website:
The irony is that it could have been worse. It looks like carnaval caused the largest spread and in turn the disproportionate amount of cases in Noord-Brabant and Limburg. Lots of carnaval parades were canceled during the storm, which must have been a blessing in disguise.
You can absolutely go outside to walk your dog or even just walk for yourself.
Alternatively, considering the lack of testing, what are the chances many of the deaths are being attributed to the flu or some other virus/respiratory illness?
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For some people not going for a walk is going to create bigger problems. Personally I can and will walk everyday and just avoid people which is an option where I'm at.
I start to get on edge after 36 hours inside. Some of us just can't function that way. Id prolly have an easier time living in a tent or yurt, something with thinner walls and more air if I need to be confined for longer periods.
I start to get on edge after 36 hours inside. Some of us just can't function that way. Id prolly have an easier time living in a tent or yurt, something with thinner walls and more air if I need to be confined for longer periods.
I don't want to divert attention from the serious discussion in here but I had a general question and not sure where to ask it.
I had a trip to Portugal and Spain planned for the end of April. The airline has refunded me. My Spanish hotel has already cancelled and refunded me, which is fine. The Portuguese hotel does not want to. They are claiming I can have a credit or nothing at all. I will use the credit probably but since I feel like there is no way I could possibly go, I would like a refund. Does anyone know if there's any government decree that says tourism or hotels must be shut? Or maybe that will come in 15 days or so and I should just wait?
I had a trip to Portugal and Spain planned for the end of April. The airline has refunded me. My Spanish hotel has already cancelled and refunded me, which is fine. The Portuguese hotel does not want to. They are claiming I can have a credit or nothing at all. I will use the credit probably but since I feel like there is no way I could possibly go, I would like a refund. Does anyone know if there's any government decree that says tourism or hotels must be shut? Or maybe that will come in 15 days or so and I should just wait?
Bolsonaro is still actively fighting against governors to stop businesses from closing. This motherfucker will fuck everything.
I'm coping just fine so far. Haven't been outside of the house since last Sunday, except to roll out/back the garbage barrel. And that was just outside my house and less than 5min. Have been opening the einfows when it's nice out. Can't guarantee I'll last another few weeks though. Eventually I'll have to go for a walk.
Talking, if the person does not show symptoms, with common saliva production and without forcing volume, it takes about 15 minutes of chat in average to get infected at courtesy distance. At security 1 meter/1meter and a half and keeping things short to a few seconds the risk is very limited.
However, by contact, it's a much higher risk. The virus survives 72 hours on plastic and steel, but it's not a linear survival line, i think most die quickly in the first hours first but traces remain a long time... anyway.
Mouth, nose and eyes are at high risk. It's difficult for somebody not to touch their face after they touched a possibly contaminated surface, whatever it is... the plastic handle of a glass panel of frozen goods or the plastic pad keys of a credit card terminal in a grocery store, the door handles of an apartment, the buttons of a lift...
I keep in mind the risk of contamination is between 2 to 4% for each contact with an actively contaminated surface if you are not careful and block yourself for touching your face.
You kill that risk by immediate sanitizing with gel, but gels cannot be found anymore here, neither are sanitizing towels... so it's wait until you are home and can do your 20seconds handwash with soap.
It's best not to touch the same coat again for 3 days if it touched a contaminated surface, alternatively you can clean it.
Virus starts dying at 60 degrees celsius, the recommended cleaning is 65 degrees celsius during 15 minutes.
I think a key factor in that is that US is much bigger and spread out than people realize. Yes, it's one country. But our major hubs are very spread out and our city-to-city transit system is pathetic. A drive from LA to NY is 2,789 miles ... which is less miles than driving from Madrid to Moscow. Also different cities and states have autonomy to announce states of emergency and shut down their local areas. I think we're going to have waves of infections, as different areas spike at different times.
I wished Germany would implement a country-wide curfew, not only a few states or cities. Germany is now among the highest affected nations in the world with over 22k cases. I still see many people living their usual daily lives as if nothing happened.
Comparing how Germany and France fared after March 14th and with the implementation of a country-wide curfew only in France but not in Germany should give you pause:
France had 4.5k cases then and 14.5k cases now.
Germany had 4.5k cases then and 22k cases now.
Comparing how Germany and France fared after March 14th and with the implementation of a country-wide curfew only in France but not in Germany should give you pause:
France had 4.5k cases then and 14.5k cases now.
Germany had 4.5k cases then and 22k cases now.
Australia update that has probably already been posted but whatever.
From midday tomorrow there will be indefinite closure of "non-essential services", and by that they mean pubs, cinemas, hotels, dine-in restaurants and cafes, etc. Anywhere that would be considered a place of public gathering.
Essential services will remain active, and include supermarkets, pharmacists, doctors, etc.
Australians typically went bonkers and assumed this meant bottle shops would be closed, and have done another reactionary mass panic shop. Government has confirmed bottle shops will remain open as an "essential service".
Restaurants and cafes can continue to operate as take-away only.
Logistics and supply chains will continue to operate.
Ambiguity on schools; school holiday period being brought forward, but will remain open after that, unless plans change.
Ambiguity on exactly what constitutes as an "essential service"; namely plumbers, electricians, and others that fall into a grey area unsure if they're supposed to stay open or close.
We've received an email from our CEO and he's considering us as an "essential service", so we're expected to stay open an operational. Although my site specifically is operating the next two weeks on a skeleton crew, so one day on each in pairs and the rest working remotely from home. We're a drop in point for homeless youth so I understand the necessity to keep it operation, but there does seem to be a disconnect between what our CEO is saying for company wide policies and how our site specifically is operating. I expect things to change.
Oddly, and fucking stupidly, there's an inconsistency with leave. He's stated that if anybody is directed by the company to self isolate for 14 days they'll be given full pay/entitlements as normal and will not be required to take any personal leave. That's great. But then follows that up by saying if you're coming back from overseas and are required to self isolate you will need to utilise personal leave or go into deficit leave. This makes fundamentally no fucking sense at all. As if, returning from an overseas holiday, my company isn't going to tell you to self isolate? It's like they're saying you'll be more rewarded if they direct you to isolate, and not a fucking government policy.
From midday tomorrow there will be indefinite closure of "non-essential services", and by that they mean pubs, cinemas, hotels, dine-in restaurants and cafes, etc. Anywhere that would be considered a place of public gathering.
Essential services will remain active, and include supermarkets, pharmacists, doctors, etc.
Australians typically went bonkers and assumed this meant bottle shops would be closed, and have done another reactionary mass panic shop. Government has confirmed bottle shops will remain open as an "essential service".
Restaurants and cafes can continue to operate as take-away only.
Logistics and supply chains will continue to operate.
Ambiguity on schools; school holiday period being brought forward, but will remain open after that, unless plans change.
Ambiguity on exactly what constitutes as an "essential service"; namely plumbers, electricians, and others that fall into a grey area unsure if they're supposed to stay open or close.
We've received an email from our CEO and he's considering us as an "essential service", so we're expected to stay open an operational. Although my site specifically is operating the next two weeks on a skeleton crew, so one day on each in pairs and the rest working remotely from home. We're a drop in point for homeless youth so I understand the necessity to keep it operation, but there does seem to be a disconnect between what our CEO is saying for company wide policies and how our site specifically is operating. I expect things to change.
Oddly, and fucking stupidly, there's an inconsistency with leave. He's stated that if anybody is directed by the company to self isolate for 14 days they'll be given full pay/entitlements as normal and will not be required to take any personal leave. That's great. But then follows that up by saying if you're coming back from overseas and are required to self isolate you will need to utilise personal leave or go into deficit leave. This makes fundamentally no fucking sense at all. As if, returning from an overseas holiday, my company isn't going to tell you to self isolate? It's like they're saying you'll be more rewarded if they direct you to isolate, and not a fucking government policy.
Next weekend it needs to go down. Otherwise its gonna be lfull ock down for sure here.
Don't forget that part of the reason is the huge number of testing being done in Germany. It's why the number of infected is so high, but number of deaths much lower than 'normal'.
Just went out for a 30 minute walk and had to take a different route since my usual one through the woods was used by a lot of people. I successful avoided everyone except for one jerk who felt he had to cross the street right in front of me even though we were the only two people there.
This is exactly the problem though, you can never account for the stupidity of people around you.
This is exactly the problem though, you can never account for the stupidity of people around you.
Didnt even think about the storm indeed that cancelled alot. Damn.
Yeah, next weekend and the period after is make or break. Numbers so far follow predictions made (which is good and bad at the same time), so hopefully we'll see better numbers soon.
You can, but everyone has to understand that this is this exception to the rule, which is "please stay the fuck home"
I do wonder about the comparatively small number of deaths. Is Germany, compared to the number of affected in the country, the country with the least deaths?
The effects of the france curfew only can show since 2 days (median incubation time 6 days), and France was trailing way behind Germany all of a sudden way earlier. It is because of less tests done.
Reading tagesschau.de the last two days, we won't get a curfew today, most experts seem to recommend a "shutdown" till Easter, but no hard curfew.
I'm guessing the people who are freaking out about going out for walks are the same people who have hoarded years worth of food and toilet paper.
Going out for walks is fine, social distancing is key. This isn't a nuclear holocaust or an active warzone where you risk your life leaving your house at all. Not everyone is going to be out on the streets at the same time either, but, in case the streets are crowded with pedestrians, use your head and your discretion.
Going out for walks is fine, social distancing is key. This isn't a nuclear holocaust or an active warzone where you risk your life leaving your house at all. Not everyone is going to be out on the streets at the same time either, but, in case the streets are crowded with pedestrians, use your head and your discretion.
I wish ALL Dutch people would take it seriously. As usual we now suffer from the dumber part of the population who selfishly do as they please.
It's all so simple if we choose to tae it seriously.
Someone here said they don't test people that died of pneumonia for C-19. Not sure if this is true though.
We need a full lock-down or at least shutting down all non-essential stores already.
That's probably true but then again the official numbers can be multiplied, right? There probably are soooo many infected people without symptoms walking around. The epidemic has reached the point where you don't have to worry about an infection just because you came in contact with a tested person that officially has it. That's why I get furious, seeing so many people ignore everything.
There is tape on the ground in grocery stores now and guess what. People ignore them!!!!! I even got pushed a bit because I stood in line where I was supposed to but the person behind me wanted to put his stuff on the counter/checkout (not sure how you call it in english^^°)
It seems true, but RKI says that they think almost all cases would get tested before they die. Like if they get into a hospital with pneunomia they get immediately tested.
The most likely reason are 70% of infected 20-50 years, many tests done, so more infected are already in quarantine and we are closer to the real numbers than other countires, more ICU capacity than most countries (we have MORE ICU capacity with breathin assistance than UK, France and Italy COMBINED).
I might be in the minority but there's just so many things to do for me if I was to be locked down.
TV shows/anime, movies, listening to music, reading a book/ebook, playing a card/board game, playing video games or even work on my garden.
Funny how I have all these things I could do but I'm not locked down, infact its the opposite, I got more hours to work lol.
Oh definitely, don't get me wrong. Many more people will have it and the irresponsible way people are going about their lives is infuriating. I'm just trying to put the numbers within context, so they're not misunderstood for what they are :)
Stop with the fear-mongering about going for a walk. Check your local municipality's guidance, but many places with stay-at-home ordinances are advising and allowing walks as long as social distancing guidelines are adhered to. There are also plenty of people who still have to travel to work, and/or work outside their homes. Please remember to keep their concerns and well-being in mind. Thank you.
Pretty sure it was well known the spread is caused by asymptomatic carriers and that they may make up the bulk of infections.
Edit: Additionally, that is why shutting down the border and self quarantine doesn't deserve a pat on the back. The spread in the US is directly related to not testing as most people don't have symptoms. All those people who self quarantined in the US in late January/ early February and were never tested, exited quarantine because of no symptoms, and most likely caused the initial spread. Obviously, after all this is over answers will come out, but that's my belief.
I have to walk my dogs, that's not really an option— I just turn the other way if their are groups or switch to the other side of the street.
We still go walk. There is like almost no one out there. It's not a dense park. It's the suburbs where people have way more space.
But if you are in a densely packed area. It's not gonna work.
there's nothing new here,this has been known for a while.
there is nothing confidential.
Fauci just said yesterday that asymptomatic people mustn't get tested.
He says this because the US has so few tests that only high priority persons can get one, but this is an entirely insufficient approach to the problem and he should point it out.
Guys, taking a walk or walking your dog is 100% fine. Just follow the social distancing measures and wash your hands afterward.
Even before when there were no restrictions for going outside I could cycle routes where I almost encountered no one.
You can always find ways which are not crowded at all.
Just stay 6 feet apart and don't cough or spit in their faces
At the current trajectory (~1000 dead, 6 days from now) next weekend would already be too late, as Italy also instituted their national lockdown when they reached about a 1000 deaths.