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EsqBob

Member
Nov 7, 2017
241
You can see how real her gum and teeth are now? I can't imagine such details getting better even on PS10 tbh. We reached a point where some aspects can't be improved anymore
Also those damn real time wrinkles under her eyes and on her nose when she is doing that grimace.

Open in full tab:

image_senua_s_saga_hellblade_ii-41439-4396_0001.jpg


Of course it looks real, it's a very blurry, noisy, dark picture with distorted colors to hide imperfections, that's not rendered in-game.

You're gonna see plenty of imperfections when playing in real 4k and getting close to virtual objects.

We are very very far from photorealism in the very high resolutions and framerates needed to fully fool the human eye
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,684
You know "in engine" is just the new CG right?

Of course it looks real, it's a very blurry, noisy, dark picture with distorted colors to hide imperfections, that's not rendered in-game.

You're gonna see plenty of imperfections when playing in real 4k and getting close to virtual objects.

We are very very far from photorealism in the very high resolutions and framerates needed to fully fool the human eye

You know that if the games now don't look as good as the cutscenes or trailers , then it must be the devs messing up things sooooooooooooooooo much? This won't happen next-gen because no one wants to get a bad reputation especially that the hardware allows it.
I expect Hellblade 2 to look even better because UE4 is in constant evolution, RT is still in beta and optimisations will come alongside the game development. Mark my words.

I still give you the benefit of the doubt, since this is the real only next-gen game you saw.
 
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Feb 6, 2019
468
Was bored and made a concept of what I think the PS5 could look like.

Would you guys like the PS5 to look like this?
(the vent is a subtle V shape)
N9U80hW.jpg
 
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anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,914
Maryland

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
yep i agree people just cant see it. They think PS4 fidelity is the peak lol
every gen we have people talking up diminishing returns. i want to be a dick and say they have no imagination but i seriously think its pessimism. people like being killjoys online. its how its always been. the amount of self-loathing, skepticism and cynicism online is nothing new. i dont know why i was surprised at people saying 8tflops gcn was the best we could do.

i used to be on gamespot forums last gen. there were these two guys who simply would not shut up about pc ports of last gen games being the best we could get on a 1.84 tflops gpu. it was like a mental block for them. that is until they saw killzone shadow fall. at least on that forum, people didnt mind conceding a point or two, admitting they were wrong every now and then, and actually argued in good faith.

p.s on an unrelated note, this brings back memories of heavenly sword in 2007. that was like the first true next gen game from sony at the time. i would argue their first real narrative driven single player title. i was blown away at the time by the cutscenes from ninja theory. they have had a rough past decade with some bombs that were actually really decent. they never get the praise they deserve. its fantastic to see that trailer get such an amazing response.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Was bored and made a concept of what I think the PS5 could look like. It uses elements from the PS2, PS3, and PS4, and the dev kit. It's also thicker than PS4 pro by a little, but not nearly as thick as XSX because it's not narrow, so it is more spread out.

Would you guys like the PS5 to look like this?
N9U80hW.jpg

Looks like the PS5 on top is about to slide off. :) Otherwise it's an interesting design.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Was bored and made a concept of what I think the PS5 could look like. It uses elements from the PS2, PS3, and PS4, and the dev kit. It's also thicker than PS4 pro by a little, but not nearly as thick as XSX because it's not narrow, so it is more spread out.

Would you guys like the PS5 to look like this?
N9U80hW.jpg

I vastly prefer this to the weird ass V thing going on with the devkit
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
Just a quick thought but while I was amazed at Hellblade 2's visuals, one of the most common criticisms i've saw on the internet and era itself was people being conservative with their hype for the graphics and are waiting for some actual gameplay to be truly impressed.

So I have to ask, Has there ever been a good example of an "in-engine" game footage of a new generation of consoles that's shot-for-shot identical to the games actual gameplay? Or is everything a Ubisoft downgrade.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Just a quick thought but while I was amazed at Hellblade 2's visuals, one of the most common criticisms i've saw on the internet and era itself was people being conservative with their hype for the graphics and are waiting for some actual gameplay to be truly impressed.

So I have to ask, Has there ever been a good example of an "in-engine" game footage of a new generation of consoles that's shot-for-shot identical to the games actual gameplay? Or is everything a Ubisoft downgrade.
Killzone Shadow Fall was better.
 

Heel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
You can see how real her gum and teeth are now? I can't imagine such details getting better even on PS10 tbh. We reached a point where some aspects can't be improved anymore
Also those damn real time wrinkles under her eyes and on her nose when she is doing that grimace.

Open in full tab:

image_senua_s_saga_hellblade_ii-41439-4396_0001.jpg



Yeah, it was super impressive and definitely had a "next-gen moment" feel to it. Saying that even if it's just as a non-interactive, in-engine cutscene visual.

One thing I noticed is that the background is completely blurred out. Not sure if that's just an artistic choice or if it's just a limitation to being able to render a face like that in-engine and nothing along with it.

So to your point, there can always be improvements to being able to render something this awesome along with the background, multiple characters etc. as an improvement from generation-to-generation. And of course something like this being playable as your in-game character.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,684
Just a quick thought but while I was amazed at Hellblade 2's visuals, one of the most common criticisms i've saw on the internet and era itself was people being conservative with their hype for the graphics and are waiting for some actual gameplay to be truly impressed.

So I have to ask, Has there ever been a good example of an "in-engine" game footage of a new generation of consoles that's shot-for-shot identical to the games actual gameplay? Or is everything a Ubisoft downgrade.


My post in the other thread:

That part looked like gameplay (in FPV mode)


I won't be surprised if you get some scenes played in FPV in this game.


Edit:

Yeah, it was super impressive and definitely had a "next-gen moment" feel to it. Saying that even if it's just as a non-interactive, in-engine cutscene visual.

One thing I noticed is that the background is completely blurred out. Not sure if that's just an artistic choice or if it's just a limitation to being able to render a face like that in-engine and nothing along with it.

So to your point, there can always be improvements to being able to render something this awesome along with the background, multiple characters etc. as an improvement from generation-to-generation. And of course something like this being playable as your in-game character.

That are not limitations, you can easily have Senua's quality on every NPC now. It's just advanced post processing and depth of field with CGI quality. That is all.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
9,205
I mean even a 12tf+ nvidia gpu and a 9900k can struggle with 4k60 especially with rt effects. Like we already do have a pretty good sense of what we'll see.

yes Sony and ms first party studios will show is some crazy shit but it's not gonna be like leagues better than what's already in the pc space.

I REALLY hope we continue to see improved reconstruction techniques instead of a push for native 4K in every game. Would be a shame to waste all this power on resolution bumps.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
I REALLY hope we continue to see improved reconstruction techniques instead of a push for native 4K in every game. Would be a shame to waste all this power on resolution bumps.

If they can drastically improve it I agree, but as of now I'll take even 1440p native over reconstruction.

I don't think res bumps is wasted either. Love the crispness of high res native stuff.

I don't like motion blur or dof at all either.

I have crazy good vision (I know that sounds dumb but I really do). Like VR is a joke to me that people would drop $800 to look at a damn screen door. Like it's actually painful.

the people who say there isnt a massive jump from 1080p to 4k are also out of their damn minds.
 
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bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
The likely explanation is that he's referring to a simply 6TF-12TF situation.

When it comes to marketing, "keep it short and simple" is the name of the game. Or to put it another way, if Microsoft just announced that the XSX was "twice as powerful" as the Xbox One X (these names are TERRIBLE). If official specs for the machine ACTUALLY came down to something like 6TF to 10.2TF or whatever, having to backtrack and explain the difference between GCN and RDNA flops to look like you weren't just lying or trying to inflate your numbers would be a completely boneheaded move that costs them credibility.

Almost nobody understands the difference between GCN and RDNA, even within these threads which are full of enthusiasts. It's best not to bring the subject up at all- let enthusiast publications do it for you if you MUST get into the weeds on it. I'm giving MS the benefit of the doubt by assuming they're bright enough to get this.



There's no evidence for this, and it's actually kinda nonsensical. MS has made statements during the 360 era that the Xbox division was expected to sink or swim on its own. It won't be floated by profits from MS Office. The Xbox also contributes comparatively little to MS's bottom line. If they cancel it tomorrow few investors would care that much.

The Playstation on the other hand is critical to the survival of Sony as an entity, and makes up a huge chunk of corporate profits and revenue. The PS division itself is also hugely profitable and hugely liquid where the Xbox division is not. If anyone has incentive to be aggressive and lose money on the system, it's Sony.

That's exactly why Sony will be conservative to not mess with the PS Division. Your statement is the exactly opposite of Sony's action. If Sony was aggressive, we would have seen PS Now not be ignored by pretty much everyone, we would have seen PS Now have good quality third parties on service.

Sorry but everything you say is nonsense.

The way Microsoft insiders are saying, Microsoft is putting A LOT of Money power into winning the Game Streaming/Subscription wars. The losses generated to get Game Pass/XCloud into a dominate position will be in the billions. Is Sony willing to loose that much?

Your statement about profits in the 360 era has zero relevance in 2020. So why are you constantly bringing it up?
 
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Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,866
What part do you think is/isn't achievable?

Im not referring to image quality. I'm referring to the lighting/LOD/Textures etc. That shit was for all intents and purposes CG
I think those elements will come close to that, but not to the extent of a prerendered in engine cutscene for sure. Think this gen in engine cutscene VS game play.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,684
I think those elements will come close to that, but not to the extent of a prerendered in engine cutscene for sure. Think this gen in engine cutscene VS game play.

You are judging the limits of current-gen to next-gen which is completely wrong and based on misconception.
Next-gen would get disconnection with such limits and gaps. It's about time. Only very messed up scenarios will have that or some cutscsnes that have mroe advanced effects like the advanced snow particles in GOW CGI trailer for example.
The overall look will be the identical and no loss in detail in major cases.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,866
You are judging the limits of current-gen to next-gen which is completely wrong and based on misconception.
Next-gen would get disconnection with such limits and gaps. It's about time. Only very messed up scenarios will have that or some cutscsnes that have mroe advanced effects like the advanced snow particles in GOW CGI trailer for example.
The overall look will be the identical and no loss in detail in major cases.
The limits will still exist. You can always do more in a cutscene since you control almost all the variables.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,048
That's exactly why Sony will be conservative to not mess with the PS Division. Your statement is the exactly opposite of Sony's action. If Sony was aggressive, we would have seen PS Now not be ignored by pretty much everyone, we would have seen PS Now have good quality third parties on service.

Sorry but everything you say is makes sense.

The way Microsoft insiders are saying, Microsoft is putting A LOT of Money power into winning the Game Streaming/Subscription wars. The losses generated to get Game Pass/XCloud into a dominate position will be in the billions. Is Sony willing to loose that much?

Your statement about profits in the 360 era has zero relevance in 2020. So why are you constantly bringing it up?

It seems like you may not have understood me in a few areas- some of your statements seem a bit garbled here. Let me clarify to make sure we're on the same page.

1.) Sony is quite aggressive and always has been with the PS hardware and software. The PS4 is the most conservative system they've ever put out, in fact. Prior to this they were notorious for going balls to the wall with strange, custom hardware that was quite powerful yet difficult to master. Even so as we've seen the PS4 hardware get more conservative, we've seen them take MORE risks with their software and first party efforts.

Your example of PSNow is nonsensical. Sony bought Gaikai *7 years ago* for **$380 million USD** based largely on potential. Is that "not being aggressive?" a lot of people will disagree with you. PSNow isn't "ignored by everyone" it's the largest streaming service that exists. Now, is there missed potential there? absolutely. Sony could have done more with it- but there's not really a good reason to. The infrastructure to make a purely streaming only service just isn't there yet. We've seen this with Stadia. Despite google's piles of money and massive datacenters they own, the platform is nowhere NEAR what was promised and does not appear as if it can be for a very long while. The streaming model also makes sony WAY less money than direct sales of software, which they are very, very good at. Microsoft on the other hand is NOT good at selling consoles in comparison, which is why you're seeing the shift to gamepass and xcloud, because the console war is over. Sony has won that battle.

If Microsoft wants to lose money giving away gamepass subscriptions to build the kind of base that Sony already has, more power to them- but there's no reason for Sony to push PSnow the same way.

2.) Microsoft is investing a lot of money into pushing gamepass and Xcloud. They are NOT putting a lot of money into losing fistfuls of money on console hardware- because there simply IS no way to beat Sony selling consoles when they don't exist in half the market where Sony competes. So does making Gamepass a loss leader to make inroads in those territories make sense? possibly. Does losing $200 a box on Xbox Series X systems to price cut Sony make sense? absolutely not.

3.) You misunderstood my statements about profits entirely. no one was speaking about the 360. We're talking about microsoft's profits RIGHT NOW.

TICcDMA.png


RIGHT NOW, not in the "360 era", only about 9% of Microsoft's revenue is coming from gaming, in its entirety. 90% of that revenue is coming from somewhere else. It's not a big revenue driver. in fact, everything Xbox and gaming related period is only marginally more than Microsoft makes from Bing. Yes, Bing. That thing no one uses and microsoft barely bothers to mention anymore.


Sony on the other hand is a completely different story.

Sony-2018-19-FY-Results-05-Segment-Results.jpg


Game and network services is the LARGEST sector of sony's business by far. it's a full quarter of sony's 79 Billion USD revenue in FY 18, and double what Home Entertainment and Financial Services brings in. Playstation is CRITICAL to the success of Sony as a business, and Sony treats it as such.

So when asking "who is in a better position to agressively price a console product'" the answer is- as I said- Sony. Sony's PS division is more critical to the organization, and game and network services is FAR more profitable as a division than Microsoft's gaming segment is.

There's no coherent reason why Microsoft WOULD throw a bunch of money at Xbox, even if they had not previously demonstrated with Xbox as well as other divisions such as zune, bing, surface, and windows phone that they will not float them indefinitely with profits from office, windows, and azure. There's a fantasy that Microsoft will simply use piles of cash to dump hardware at fire sale prices to win the sector- Microsoft has *never* done this. Not with Xbox, not with anything.
 
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Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,636
Do you guys think last night's unexpected reveal will affect Sony's time line for their own full unveiling of PS5?
With a year to go for launch, i doubt it. Historically MS always showed off their console first. Sony should counter with trailers for next gen games, maybe even with gameplay as most will careless what the console look like.
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,372
So now that MS has official announced the next Xbox, when do you think Sony will officially announce the PS5? They announced the PS3 in February? What say you? Do you think they'll do it in February or later? Do you think it's going to take the winds of the sales of Last of US 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima, especially if PS5 is backwards compatible?
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,866
So now that MS has official announced the next Xbox, when do you think Sony will officially announce the PS5? They announced the PS3 in February? What say you? Do you think they'll do it in February or later? Do you think it's going to take the winds of the sales of Last of US 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima, especially if PS5 is backwards compatible?
Seems like February again.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,048
So now that MS has official announced the next Xbox, when do you think Sony will officially announce the PS5? They announced the PS3 in February? What say you? Do you think they'll do it in February or later? Do you think it's going to take the winds of the sales of Last of US 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima, especially if PS5 is backwards compatible?

The PS5 has already been announced. Sony has issued statements that it exists, and given a broad overview of the hardware plans they have for it.
If we're talking about a full reveal of specifications, design, game lineup etc- February at Playstation Meeting is the obvious date.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,969
Montreal
So now that MS has official announced the next Xbox, when do you think Sony will officially announce the PS5? They announced the PS3 in February? What say you? Do you think they'll do it in February or later? Do you think it's going to take the winds of the sales of Last of US 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima, especially if PS5 is backwards compatible?

What do you mean by "officially announce"? They've already officially announced it.

If you mean a look at the console, well the PS4 console wasn't included in the PS4 reveal (it was saved for E3).

If you mean a game for it, technically we got that last night!

If you mean another PlayStation meeting, likely Februaryish like the PS4.
 
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