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Next-Gen Hair Tech: "Every Strand Counts - Physics and Rendering Behind Frostbite's Hair"
- Thread starter Yiazmat
- Start date
EA UFC series had the best hair physics during last gen. It wasn't talked about much, but imo it was some of the most realistic hair I've ever seen.
Edit- wait haha it's the same studio right? EA Vancouver? The muscle tech in that video looks similar to the UFC series as well.
Edit- wait haha it's the same studio right? EA Vancouver? The muscle tech in that video looks similar to the UFC series as well.
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Define what you mean by this. Because "next gen AI", or how every researcher calls it, self-learning AI, already exists. It is not fun to play, and players will lose 99% of the time when playing against it, so it is pointless to be used for an experience that is supposed to provide a "good feeling" when playing against "AI".
AlphaStar: Grandmaster level in StarCraft II using multi-agent reinforcement learning
AlphaStar is the first AI to reach the top league of a widely popular esport without any game restrictions. This January, a preliminary version of AlphaStar challenged two of the world's top...deepmind.com
I eventually stopped wishing for "smarter" AI and now just think of the AI in games I play as people paid to let me have a good time. Like, "let me go stand over there by myself so he can stab me" lol. Cause realistic AI indeed would not actually be very fun.
I'm speaking only for myself, but when I'm speaking of improved game AI, I'm talking about more realistic NPC interactions that have a direct impact on gameplay and player interaction/reaction.
I'm not sure why you assume that players are asking for AI that completely dominates the player.
They've had information about that out for quite some time now. It's on their Fifa site.
I'm curious about how you see this, can you come up with some examples?
That's why I asked for a definition on what that means. Because self-learning AI is the holy grail of AI research. Especially AI that is generalised and can be dropped into any game, to learn and play the game on its own.
That is the most realistic AI you could have. But because we as humans are far slower than computers at executing things, what ends up happening is the self-learning AI surpasses our knowledge and skills fairly quickly. :) Even if you don't intend it to be that way, it always ends up being that way, haha.
EDIT: Otherwise, if it is not self-learning, it's not really "AI". Just a set of scripted events that are linked and chained to fake as if an actor is behaving in a "believable" (not realistic) way.
Suddenly want a Final Fantasy developed in Frostbite.
Sweat is still the next gen sweat, see the NBA 2K21 reveal trailer lol
I'm loving the improvements in hair rendering. It's surprising to think that it's performant enough to run well in a 60fps title like FIFA. I'm curious about how it will scale games with larger densities of NPCs?
I really hoping for film quality fluid simulation and volumetric effects to be another set of features that will see targeted on the next gen consoles.
I really hoping for film quality fluid simulation and volumetric effects to be another set of features that will see targeted on the next gen consoles.
TLOU 2 has better animation than any sports game I've seen and AFAIK input lag was never a complaint there. There are certainly improvements that can be made.
Can people weigh in on what they mean by this in more detail?
Fuck it, I'll take unrealistically bouncy strand based hair over what we've gotten in previous generations!
And we'll likely see Jack n Shit during actual gameplay. These visual niceties/embellishments are reserved for interstitial cutscenes that generally run at 30fps which also presumably (logically) also switch to the highest LoD models so that they hold up at closer distances from the camera.
It will be interesting to see what this hair-tech (once it has been refined to look like we are on a 1G planet) looks like during actual real time gameplay in other EA titles like UFC, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Battlefield etc.
It will be interesting to see what this hair-tech (once it has been refined to look like we are on a 1G planet) looks like during actual real time gameplay in other EA titles like UFC, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Battlefield etc.
My thoughts exactly. Marketing bullets, but I guess the problem is that sports sims at this point are pretty much a solved problem from a gameplay interaction perspective, so what else is there besides the obligatory roster updates?
It's not an Either/Or situation, different specialists work on different tech. No doubt Frostbite's engineering team has hair simulation scientists AND AI specialists, don't think for a moment that hair nerds could do the job of AI nerds but didn't get the right funding from EA :p
I'm expecting some AI breakthrough this generation, but the problem is - what's a good AI? Are we trying to "fake" real players?
Wouldn't that make PVP multiplayer in games with no vocal interactions like Battlefield largely redundant compared to an optimized single player coop with bots?
I'm expecting some AI breakthrough this generation, but the problem is - what's a good AI? Are we trying to "fake" real players?
Wouldn't that make PVP multiplayer in games with no vocal interactions like Battlefield largely redundant compared to an optimized single player coop with bots?
Maybe we can finally get over this hurdle where we got almost photorealistic materials (not) but then clay hair on everything. Tackles clothing and other soft bodies next so we can finally cross that off the list too.
Sports games are a LOT faster than TLOU2, especially at the competitive level where you're making extremely split second decisions and needing to input things quickly. It's hard to compare them. That and a lot of sports games involve contact to some degree.
right? last soccer game i bought was for the saturn (loved it too!)
Bioware are already using the latest next-gen Frostbite engine. Din''t you see their E3 tease with NFS, BF and next dragon Age? All looked true next-gen jump compared to anything else. They weren't bluffing since they tech demoed the hair tech last year and they are usinfg it in FIFA. Now the enxt-gen Frostbite engine gonna power all those next-gen games and they will look like that.
Well actual human locomotion does affect the ability to change what youre doing so there s already a built in allowance for some input delay regardless.
Looks better than what we have had up till now, but it's not realistic at all. We're definitely gonna go through a phase of over bouncy hair, just like with clothing and boob physics.
Nope even use the same Frostbite this gen, EA sports's hair looks ok,but bioware looks like shit.
So FIFA 21 and any upcoming Frostbite game will be a Strand game now.
Don't bother, I'll see myself out...
Don't bother, I'll see myself out...
I agree, though It's still not as responsive as FIFA for example, and it doesn't need to, whereas FIFA does.
I really don't like this tech. Every time I see hair like this I have to wonder if the engineers (or art directors utilizing the tech) have ever seen real hair. Don't get me wrong, the tech itself is extremely impressive. I have nothing but respect for that.
And I should also say that I don't think hair is typically done very well now, but mostly static hair with some deformation, keyed animations, or light physics looks more natural than these hair demos, every time.
Most "Hair" irl doesn't behave like 10s of thousands of individual strands moving individually. "Hair" has degrees of stiffness and structure and weight. It can hold shape and stick together and colic. Strands on the surface can shift while the majority maintains shape. It's a mass made of strands, not just a mass of strands. When I walk down the street, my hair does not spring and float and twist like I'm under water. Even long hair is fairly static in most circumstances.
I should clarify that there is always movement with hair, but it's often subtle. I guess I would rather my digital facsimiles do too little than way too much.
And I should also say that I don't think hair is typically done very well now, but mostly static hair with some deformation, keyed animations, or light physics looks more natural than these hair demos, every time.
Most "Hair" irl doesn't behave like 10s of thousands of individual strands moving individually. "Hair" has degrees of stiffness and structure and weight. It can hold shape and stick together and colic. Strands on the surface can shift while the majority maintains shape. It's a mass made of strands, not just a mass of strands. When I walk down the street, my hair does not spring and float and twist like I'm under water. Even long hair is fairly static in most circumstances.
I should clarify that there is always movement with hair, but it's often subtle. I guess I would rather my digital facsimiles do too little than way too much.
It came out early. I am about to play it as we speak. I will let you guys know how it looks.
I've resigned myself to video game hair never looking good haha, this is a step forward but still
