New Pokémon Sword & Shield Trailer (Gigantamaxing, new pokémon, version exclusive gym leaders and Pokémon)

[Deleted member 48434]

How is it incompetence?

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Because they would have went out of their way to future proof the models on 3DS, tanking the framerate, only to throw them out the moment a new generation comes along? Let's Go has the same models, as has been data mined, and they look the same.

If the models were remade from scratch, then why do they look the same with minimal improvement!? And no, a texture tweak does not mean the entire model was remade.

The Dynamax models just look like scaled up normal models, so I'm pretty sure that's bull too.
I'm starting to feel like this is just a ploy to trap pokemon in HOME so people will pay to not lose them.

 

[NotLiquid]

Game Freak has been expanding. They even own subsidiaries

The 143 staff is just full-time and contracted staff. It doesn't count freelancers (of which there are many), interns, temporary staff and so forth. It also doesn't count those that work in their subsidiaries

As listed in their site, listing only full time and contracted

In April 2012, they had 90 staff
In April 2014, they had 73 staff
In April 2015, they had 81 staff
In April 2016, they had 108 staff
In April 2017, they had 118 staff
In April 2018 they had 143 staff

They are expanding, and don't forget that staff numbers are irrelevant. I keep seeing people say that in regards to the animations. How would a scenario writer help with that

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I'm talking from the perspective of people expecting Game Freak to hop up into triple A echelons as far as their actual staff count is concerned, due to the fact that they just happen to work on Pokémon.

 

[Serebii]

Because they would have went out of their way to future proof the models on 3DS, tanking the framerate, only to throw them out the moment a new generation comes along? Let's Go has the same models, as has been data mined, and they look the same.

If the models were remade from scratch, then why do they look the same with minimal improvement!? And no, a texture tweak does not mean the entire model was remade.

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Well clearly something caused it otherwise they wouldn't have to do it? I think they're more in a position to know than people who just play the games. It's a lazy argument to call them inept just because we don't have the understanding of what happened at this time.

 

[Phendrana]

If they had to remake all of the models from scratch (which I'm very skeptical of tbh), they would presumably have known about that from very early in development. Which would have given them more than enough time to hire/contract the necessary staff needed to still include all of the Pokemon. And yet...they didn't.

Or looking at it from another angle - even if you accept this as an excuse for this game, it doesn't explain why they're talking in interviews about how this is a new 'policy change' for the series going forward. If the reason for the cull is that they simply didn't have enough time because they had to remodel everything, then that shouldn't really be an issue for the next game, right?

 

[Deleted member 48434]

Well clearly something caused it otherwise they wouldn't have to do it?

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Nope. I don't trust them anymore, I don't think.
I think something is going on, but it's not what they're telling us.

 

[Serebii]

Nope. I don't trust them anymore, I don't think.
I think something is going on, but it's not what they're telling us.

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Ok let's go into conspiracy theories then. Neat

 

[Error 52]

I very much doubt they did remake the models (and the article itself doesn't really suggest they did) but if I had to guess I'd say that they expected the generational leap to be about on par with DS to 3DS.

Thus, when the Switch ended up being on par with PS3/360, Game Freak realised their models weren't usable for that. They then had to put a lot more work into making them suitable than they had initially anticipated.

I don't get the impression this is a game with a particularly smooth development cycle.

 

[Deleted member 48434]

Ok let's go into conspiracy theories then. Neat

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I just think there's gotta be issues with project management there or something.
Companies never admit to management issues, you can only guess or learn about them after the fact.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

Because they would have went out of their way to future proof the models on 3DS, tanking the framerate, only to throw them out the moment a new generation comes along? Let's Go has the same models, as has been data mined, and they look the same.

If the models were remade from scratch, then why do they look the same with minimal improvement!? And no, a texture tweak does not mean the entire model was remade.

The Dynamax models just look like scaled up normal models, so I'm pretty sure that's bull too.
I'm starting to feel like this is just a ploy to trap pokemon in HOME so people will pay to not lose them.

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There's a myriad of things that could have happened. Maybe the game doesn't use the same engine and, when ported, the models corrupted. It wouldn't be a rare occurrence

Half-full/half-empty and a

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Not quite. This doesn't have two interpretations. People are calling Inept and incompetent to a team that has successfully maintained a franchise for more than 25 years without tanking it.

That's not what I understand for Inept or incompetent, and marketing has very little to do with that feat

 

[NotLiquid]

If they had to remake all of the models from scratch (which I'm very skeptical of tbh), they would presumably have known about that from very early in development. Which would have given them more than enough time to hire/contract the necessary staff needed to still include all of the Pokemon. And yet...they didn't.

Or looking at it from another angle - even if you accept this as an excuse for this game, it doesn't explain why they're talking in interviews about how this is a new 'policy change' for the series going forward. If the reason for the cull is that they simply didn't have enough time because they had to remodel everything, then that shouldn't really be an issue for the next game, right?

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The best case scenario here is that the "policy change" as they put it is basically a simple matter of "take what we can get for now", and by the time the next game rolls around, we'll have most, if not all of the missing names.

 

[Apa504]

Or looking at it from another angle - even if you accept this as an excuse for this game, it doesn't explain why they're talking in interviews about how this is a new 'policy change' for the series going forward. If the reason for the cull is that they simply didn't have enough time because they had to remodel everything, then that shouldn't really be an issue for the next game, right?

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Because there will be a point in which no matter how much money you have, how many people you have, it will be impossible to keep adding more Pokemon and updating the old ones, and I think that before hiting that critical point, Gamefreak has decided to stop here.
And you cant keep hiring people every time a new game comes, there is a point in which the Pokemon formula will become unssustainable no matter what.

 

[AllChan7]

Has this been talked about



Now this makes a lot more sense as to why not every Pokemon will be included in S/S

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Sadly, people aren't gonna buy it even if its a legitimate reason. It seems like an unforseen circumstance on their part. Like from my understanding, they future proofed the 3DS models but I guess no matter how good the models were, they just weren't compatible with SwSh

 

[Sandfox]

If they had to remake all of the models from scratch (which I'm very skeptical of tbh), they would presumably have known about that from very early in development. Which would have given them more than enough time to hire/contract the necessary staff needed to still include all of the Pokemon. And yet...they didn't.

Or looking at it from another angle - even if you accept this as an excuse for this game, it doesn't explain why they're talking in interviews about how this is a new 'policy change' for the series going forward. If the reason for the cull is that they simply didn't have enough time because they had to remodel everything, then that shouldn't really be an issue for the next game, right?

Click to shrink...

The best case scenario here is that the "policy change" as they put it is basically a simple matter of "take what we can get for now", and by the time the next game rolls around, we'll have most, if not all of the missing names.

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They have been trying to avoid hitting 1000 and talk about how difficult it has become to balance the games, so the policy change probably plays into that.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I'm wondering if they mean Creatures had to go back and spruce up the models like they did for the starter pikachu and eevee. Those have more edgeloops around the joints for smoother animations (among other things)

 

[Serebii]

I'm wondering if they mean Creatures had to go back and spruce up the models like they did for the starter pikachu and eevee. Those have more edgeloops around the joints for smoother animations (among other things)

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Could be, plus like I said new textures and it is of course possible they had to rerig animations which would do it in itself

 

[THErest]

Inept and incompetent are not adjectives you use for a team that has successfully released 7 generations of a series without doing a Level 5

Come on now

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I mean, failing upward is a thing.

 

[--R]

I've shared that article numerous times but people ignored it and called them liars. Guess they know more about the game than the own devs.

 

[Hucast]

I've shared that article numerous times but people ignored it and called them liars. Guess they know more about the game than the own devs.

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Them not being a reasonable bunch has been clear from the beginning

 

[Serebii]

I've shared that article numerous times but people ignored it and called them liars. Guess they know more about the game than the own devs.

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We play games as enthusiasts. We know more about game development than the people who develop games.

 

[Lelouch0612]

I don't know about that. It might be a more understandable reason, but designing assets to be future proofed and having them not actually be future proofed adds a whole lot of fuel to the sentiment that Game Freak are inept.

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I think that interview was shared/ talked about the day after the Treehouse event. All the points sound familiar to me, I thought everyone had read it already.


What an efficient way to future proof the models though, if they couldn't even survive the passing from just 1 generation of console to another.

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Game Freak probably future proofed the models with the 3DS gen and its successor in mind.

What they didnt expect is that the Switch would be closer to a 2 generations gap in terms of power.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Game Freak probably future proofed the models with the 3DS gen and its successor in mind.

What they didnt expect is that the Switch would be closer to a 2 generations gap in terms of power.

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They would have known about the switch during SM's development. So if they admitted to struggling to get all the mons in that game, seeing the NX must have scared them shitless

 

[Clefargle]

They would have known about the switch during SM's development. So if they admitted to struggling to get all the mons in that game, seeing the NX must have scared them shitless

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Yup

I'm sure they had time to see this coming. They could have actually expanded their development capacity in advance of their games being developed for switch

 

[Corrie1960]

My biggest problem with game freak and Pokémon is why should I care about new feature they will only be taken away next gen

Why can't mega's stay every gen, Z moves, Dynamaxing, Gigantamaxing, taking photos with Pokémon, Pokémon folllowing you, seasons, battle frontier, gym leaders rematches, Pokémon world tournament

All gone I bet in gen 9 sadly they all in-fact every feature introduced should be kept

I've pre ordered both version to show support but I'm not happy either

 

[Master Milk]

I've pre ordered both version to show support but I'm not happy either

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lol, that'll really show them how unhappy you are with things

 

[Serebii]

My biggest problem with game freak and Pokémon is why should I care about new feature they will only be taken away next gen

Why can't mega's stay every gen, Z moves, Dynamaxing, Gigantamaxing, taking photos with Pokémon, Pokémon folllowing you, seasons, battle frontier, gym leaders rematches, Pokémon world tournament

All gone I bet in gen 9 sadly they all in-fact every feature introduced should be kept

I've pre ordered both version to show support but I'm not happy either

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Yeah I want them back too.

I was joyous at the notion of VGC 2022 being full National Pokédex, 2 Legendary Pokémon per team, 1 Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion Allowed, Z-Crystals, Ultra Burst and Dynamax. (Note this is not sarcasm

Maybe this was the imbalance in the battle system they were talking about haha

 

[disparate]

Frontier and gym leader rematches were great as post-game content but tbh gimmicks like Z-moves, megas, gigantamaxing/dynamaxing, etc can miss me; I avoided Z-Moves and Megas as much as possible and I'm probably going to do the same with gigantamaxing/dynamaxing.

 

[--R]

I'd love to have seasons and Pokémon following me. It's the stuff that makes replaying the game a lot better.

 

[Moltres006]

A cool region to explore and the national dex, that's really all its needed to satisfy the pokemon fanbase. Wasnt that the reason people like gen 5 so much?

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

I'm sad for the Megaevos not passing the cut. I mean, I trained at least one pokémon per Megaevolution and I love what it did to casual battles and the extra layer of strategy and mental pressure it added. It was also GREAT to beat some rando that came to you with his megaevo+legendary as if he were the hottest shit ever.

However gigantamax gives me hope in that regard. As I said before, I feel like gigantamax is GF's answer to megaevos and z-moves' woes and while I'm not expecting all past megaevos become gigantamaxes, at the very least I can see some coming back like Mawile

 

[Ushojax]

How is it incompetence?

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If they remade all the models from scratch only to have them look exactly the same as the 3DS models, then yeah, they are incompetent. They didn't do that though, they plugged in the old models and spruced up the textures.

Models built with a modern HD game in mind should look much better than the same old Raichu model that we've seen for the last 7 years. Game Freak are stretching the truth when the say they had to redo the old models. Touching them up is not redoing them.

 

[Northern Lights]

Frontier and gym leader rematches were great as post-game content but tbh gimmicks like Z-moves, megas, gigantamaxing/dynamaxing, etc can miss me; I avoided Z-Moves and Megas as much as possible and I'm probably going to do the same with gigantamaxing/dynamaxing.

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I think I only megaevolved in that Lucario vs Lucario fight in XY and once in ORAS just to see Mega Aerodactyl. I have never used a Z-move.
I really hope I can avoid using the new gimmicks in SwSh too. Sadly they feel more integrated to the games than Megas or Z-moves.

 

[pokéfan]

Good news guys!

I'm on my way to Hyper Japan event in London this afternoon, and I will be playing Pokemon Sw&Sh demo!!! I'm so excited.

 

[Leo]

What an efficient way to future proof the models though, if they couldn't even survive the passing from just 1 generation of console to another.

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And the best thing about this is that they had 4 games running like shit on the 3DS, allegedly because of the futureproof models.

Now that was a great deal, basically they haven't optimized their models for anything since before 2013.

 

[Corrie1960]

Yeah I want them back too.

I was joyous at the notion of VGC 2022 being full National Pokédex, 2 Legendary Pokémon per team, 1 Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion Allowed, Z-Crystals, Ultra Burst and Dynamax. (Note this is not sarcasm

Maybe this was the imbalance in the battle system they were talking about haha

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I was expecting Leon the champion the final battle a 6 on 6 mega his team would be

1 Mega Pokémon
1 Pokémon with a Z move
1 Gigantamaxing Pokémon
1 Pokémon with a form change
1 legendary Pokémon
and 1 regular Pokémon

No lie. Would be for a great battle

After sword and shield do pub think a 3rd version in 2020 is possible

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

I was expecting Leon the champion the final battle a 6 on 6 mega his team would be

1 Mega Pokémon
1 Pokémon with a Z move
1 Gigantamaxing Pokémon
1 Pokémon with a form change
1 legendary Pokémon
and 1 regular Pokémon

No lie. Would be for a great battle

After sword and shield do pub think a 3rd version in 2020 is possible

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That sounds hype, but i wouldn't do it with the champion but with someone above him.

 

[Corrie1960]

That sounds hype, but i wouldn't do it with the champion but with someone above him.

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Evil team leader returns in post game for revenge. I still say champion is best for this battle

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

Evil team leader returns in post game for revenge. I still say champion is best for this battle

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Nah, some good trainer who is the surprise challenge. A vagabond (Or something) that has been to every region so far.

I dunno, that kind of concept is really hype to me.

EDIT: In fact i would take an Alder-like character but without the champion bit. A veteran trainer who is in a trip for self discovery. Every time you fight him he has a radically different pokémon from every region, and way after the Champion battle, in a post-game segment, BAM

Alternate form
Pokémon with Z-Move
Megaevolved pokémon
Gigantamaxed pokemon
Pokemon from one region
Pokemon from another region

Goddammit it would be so good.

 

[Corrie1960]

Are expecting gym leaders matches and Pokémon league rematch at the very least?

 

[Quinton]

Nah, some good trainer who is the surprise challenge. A vagabond (Or something) that has been to every region so far.

I dunno, that kind of concept is really hype to me.

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Dark Ash is a favorite concept of mine as well. :P

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

Dark Ash is a favorite concept of mine as well. :P

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I would rather have a new character. Someone who at first screamed "Interesting, have strange pokémon, but it's weak" and in the end would be like "SURPRISE, MOTHERFUCKER"

 

[Zombegoast]

I'm sorry but this has to be bullshit.
If it's true, then it's such a level of revoltingly incredible incompetence that I'm left speechless.

Don't TPC handle the models anyway, not Gamefreak?

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Try rigging and modeling 900+ Pokemons.

Up until Battle Revolution, they reused models and animations since Stadium and it showed.

They could have resued Sun&Moon's but obviously they'll be called lazy. And it would look awful upressing 240p models to HD with flat looking textures and be able to count the number of polygons.

 

[Raonak]

Remember when the reasoning for the bad 3DS performance was because the pokemon models were high resolution models designed for future platforms?
Yet... now we're designing them from scratch?

the fact of the matter is that pokemon is too big of a franchise for only 70 developers on a 2 year schedule.
Why don't they just outsource the mundane shit like literally every AAA studio does?

I don't understand why TPC/gamefreak is so cheap with one of the biggest franchises on earth.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

Remember when the reasoning for the bad 3DS performance was because the pokemon models were high resolution models designed for future platforms?
Yet... now we're designing them from scratch?

the fact of the matter is that pokemon is too big of a franchise for only 70 developers on a 2 year schedule.
Why don't they just outsource the mundane shit like literally every AAA studio does?

I don't understand why TPC/gamefreak is so cheap with one of the biggest franchises on earth.

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Man, you haven't understood anything of wha have been discussed in the last few hours, haven't you?

 

[Raonak]

Man, you haven't understood anything of wha have been discussed in the last few hours, haven't you?

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Feel free to address any of my points

I'm saying gamefreak clearly does not have the manpower to make HD games.
and that they need to improve their development pipelines going forward.

or god forbid they actually get a proper AAA length development time.
I want a Pokemon game that took 3-5 years to make. I know TPC doesn't, but goddamn, it'd be fucking amazing.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Are expecting gym leaders matches and Pokémon league rematch at the very least?

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I don't see why not. They've been in every recent game. Also the pokemon league might end up being different this time

 

[Lelouch0612]

Feel free to address any of my points

I'm saying gamefreak clearly does not have the manpower to make HD games. and that they need to improve their development pipelines going forward.

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How many people do you think are working on these games ?

 

[--R]

Feel free to address any of my points

I'm saying gamefreak clearly does not have the manpower to make HD games.
and that they need to improve their development pipelines going forward.

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Pokémon Sun / Moon had 500 people working on it. They outsource a lot of stuff to Nintendo and Creatures Inc.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

Feel free to address any of my points

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Sure

Remember when the reasoning for the bad 3DS performance was because the pokemon models were high resolution models designed for future platforms?
Yet... now we're designing them from scratch?

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They didn't have to redesing them from scratch (Do you even realise what does that imply) but they had to redo or retouch all the models, all because probably of an unforeseen engine incompatibility. Shit happens, you know?

the fact of the matter is that pokemon is too big of a franchise for only 70 developers on a 2 year schedule.

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The developer number is bullshit and you know it, not only we don't know how many developers are working on external projects like Town, you just have to watch the credits from SuMo to know that there aren't 70 developers working on the series.

Why don't they just outsource the mundane shit like literally every AAA studio does?

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But they DO outsource. Serebii was talking about that before.

I don't understand why TPC/gamefreak is so cheap with one of the biggest franchises on earth.

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They are not cheap, they work with wath they are given to with the resources they are allowed to use and the time they have. Pokemon games are not developed in a vaccuum you know?

 

[Serebii]

I don't see why not. They've been in every recent game. Also the pokemon league might end up being different this time

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And maybe they end up with Gigantamax forms in the rematches. That'd be cool

 

[Moltres006]

Feel free to address any of my points

I'm saying gamefreak clearly does not have the manpower to make HD games.
and that they need to improve their development pipelines going forward.

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Or at least they demand whoever is in charge not to rush a new gen every 3 years.