BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,559
I can see it now when the ps5 is announced

buy the Ps5 and play your games online or offline for 500$
Or
Access our ps now cloud for 10$ month or 60$ a year to access ps5 games through the ps store, no console required
 

Wetalo

Member
Feb 9, 2018
724
Sounds like this is intended moreso for their Playstation Now push, losing e latency.
 

GodofWine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,775
What if the Sony launches a streaming box that IS the controller (and it magically beams video signals through unicorns into the TV for video...I haven't figured that part out)
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,736
How can they patent this when the Stadia controller already does it?
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,427
this seems to be a patent for a PS5 controller to connect to your PS5 via the internet so when you stream your PS5 to wherever you are, the controller connects back to your PS5 instead of to whatever device you're streaming on, and then to your PS5. it's like what stadia does except stadia controller is connecting to a server not a box you own. also the PS5 controller would still be able to connect to your PS5 via wifi even if your internet is down. it would just be a WLAN connection.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,559
this seems to be a patent for a PS5 controller to connect to your PS5 via the internet so when you stream your PS5 to wherever you are, the controller connects back to your PS5 instead of to whatever device you're streaming on, and then to your PS5. it's like what stadia does except stadia controller is connecting to a server not a box you own. also the PS5 controller would still be able to connect to your PS5 via wifi even if your internet is down. it would just be a WLAN connection.
It can also be for PSnow
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,757
The controller streams the games? I don't know what this means.

When you stream a game, your controller needs to send the signals to the device rendering the game.
Usually try is is done by connecting directly to the console , however in a streaming situation you either connect to the device/app showing the game (which relays the signal) or you connect the controller to directly to the device rendering.
In the case of streaming you aren't in the same physical location as the device doing the rendering, so you connect the controller to that across the network.

this helps to reduce latency as the crummy hotel TV or tablet you are steaming to might not have a Bluetooth/USB interface optimised for latency.

this also means you don't need to have any kind of controller support built into the device also, you just need a dumb device that can show a live picture.
 

Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
3,745
Enjoy not being able to play when your Internet goes down

Is this something that happens to you with any degree of frequency? I can't remember the last time my internet went down. It definitely hasn't happened since I've lived in my current house, with the exception of power outages. That's 3 years. Can it happen? Sure, but it's an extreme rarity and I can always spend that time playing another console/game, reading a book, watching a movie, or if I really am that desperate to play PS5 I can hook up my phone's hotspot which I play online over now and then with my Switch. If both of my internet options are down at the same time, then there's probably something going on that I should be focused on anyway.
 

LuckyLocke

Avenger
Nov 27, 2017
864
When you stream a game, your controller needs to send the signals to the device rendering the game.
Usually try is is done by connecting directly to the console , however in a streaming situation you either connect to the device/app showing the game (which relays the signal) or you connect the controller to directly to the device rendering.
In the case of streaming you aren't in the same physical location as the device doing the rendering, so you connect the controller to that across the network.

this helps to reduce latency as the crummy hotel TV or tablet you are steaming to might not have a Bluetooth/USB interface optimised for latency.

this also means you don't need to have any kind of controller support built into the device also, you just need a dumb device that can show a live picture.
Your last point is the only valid point. A wireless connected controller would only bypass the latency of the console processing the input (which is minimal). The signal is going out the same way as a console would, through your router and modem. The TV is not in play here.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,724
I can see it now when the ps5 is announced

buy the Ps5 and play your games online or offline for 500$
Or
Access our ps now cloud for 10$ month or 60$ a year to access ps5 games through the ps store, no console required

Is there any place I can bet real money on that? Not sure about the $60 a year price, but close enough.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,721
As long as it does not interfere with offline gaming I couldn't care less about this.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,757
Your last point is the only valid point. A wireless connected controller would only bypass the latency of the console processing the input (which is minimal). The signal is going out the same way as a console would, through your router and modem. The TV is not in play here.

But in this case here, that is irrelevant, as the goal is for streaming games, where consoles aren't the target platform.
 

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
Well it's gonna be pretty easy for them to bundle a cloud PS5 controller and PSVita TV Dongle for PSNow subscriptions.

it Really isn't going to be hard for PS and Xbox to just swallow Stadiaa year after launch
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
tenor.gif
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
just to clarify for people -- the client-server relationship doesn't necessarily mean "online." A client-server relationship can be entirely local to a machine. In linux, for example, the way programs interact with the X Windows system is a client-server relationship. This is beneficial if you want to design any sort of product where the server doesn't have to be local. In linux, you can start an X Window system on any machine in the network, and have your client connect to it (i.e. your window GUI system for linux, running on a remote computer) but by default, the server runs on the local machine beside the client. You might ask, what is the functional difference? Not much, but it's an implimentation difference, where your backend might be an entirely different thread, with it's own memory space, without granular control from the client.

The patent says "cloud gaming" but that doesn't necessarily mean "internet gaming." This would be necessary if, for example, Sony wants to build a playstation app for your TV, so that, if you have mulitple TVs in a house, you can have 1 PS5 somewhere that can stream to every television in the house through wifi, like the steam link. The difference being that the SteamLink interprets controller input in the client, then sends the commands over the network to the server (your PC). By contrast, with this patent, Sony could be saying their "steam link" answer app sends commands directly to the client (the PS5) without needing to go through the TV client app. The scenario I described above can accurately describe everything in the patent, including the term "cloud gaming."
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
Well it's gonna be pretty easy for them to bundle a cloud PS5 controller and PSVita TV Dongle for PSNow subscriptions.

Forget a dongle. This opens the door for PS Now apps on any Roku, FireTV or Chromecast that previously would have needed controller support built in.

The patent says "cloud gaming" but that doesn't necessarily mean "internet gaming." This would be necessary if, for example, Sony wants to build a playstation app for your TV, so that, if you have mulitple TVs in a house, you can have 1 PS5 somewhere that can stream to every television in the house through wifi, like the steam link. The difference being that the SteamLink interprets controller input in the client, then sends the commands over the network to the server (your PC). By contrast, with this patent, Sony could be saying their "steam link" answer app sends commands directly to the client (the PS5) without needing to go through the TV client app. The scenario I described above can accurately describe everything in the patent, including the term "cloud gaming."

You are just describing RemotePlay. In the patent when they say cloud gaming they are explicitly talking about streaming from a remote server. But the patent describes a multitude of scenarios that encompass both use cases.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Forget a dongle. This opens the door for PS Now apps on any Roku, FireTV or Chromecast that previously would have needed controller support built in.



You are just describing RemotePlay. In the patent when they say cloud gaming they are explicitly talking about streaming from a remote server. But the patent describes a multitude of scenarios that encompass both use cases.

I know what I'm describing. Remote play doesn't interact with a game like you are talking about. Remote play is a client that intercepts input, then sends it over the network through the client device. This would be different, in that the controller wouldn't be connected to the client, but the server itself directly.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,559
I just hope they start selling new games on ps now so I don't have to buy another console
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,724
just to clarify for people -- the client-server relationship doesn't necessarily mean "online." A client-server relationship can be entirely local to a machine. In linux, for example, the way programs interact with the X Windows system is a client-server relationship. This is beneficial if you want to design any sort of product where the server doesn't have to be local. In linux, you can start an X Window system on any machine in the network, and have your client connect to it (i.e. your window GUI system for linux, running on a remote computer) but by default, the server runs on the local machine beside the client. You might ask, what is the functional difference? Not much, but it's an implimentation difference, where your backend might be an entirely different thread, with it's own memory space, without granular control from the client.

The patent says "cloud gaming" but that doesn't necessarily mean "internet gaming." This would be necessary if, for example, Sony wants to build a playstation app for your TV, so that, if you have mulitple TVs in a house, you can have 1 PS5 somewhere that can stream to every television in the house through wifi, like the steam link. The difference being that the SteamLink interprets controller input in the client, then sends the commands over the network to the server (your PC). By contrast, with this patent, Sony could be saying their "steam link" answer app sends commands directly to the client (the PS5) without needing to go through the TV client app. The scenario I described above can accurately describe everything in the patent, including the term "cloud gaming."

I haven't seen a lot of examples that refer to cloud gaming as something you do locally. In any case the patent seems to be talking specifically about cloud gaming through the internet.

eExLJjFgR_OZtzy7zpxwGtrN1Rgp6vgwqbaciJloZCIkn3VW5QzpCVGJONn8FuT995pUWSb1stPBm-0eXP61slAWAmovrNr-8pOCSjXt-j8fcF3aK4VhHfiBBeXbNvSqqtT3-YbC5tvLlhp1pK7gGceG5VMs5YeK5uEQATF6dyufuBFUbFOt0Lz-CKc2Rs3Y


 
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BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
I know what I'm describing. Remote play doesn't interact with a game like you are talking about. Remote play is a client that intercepts input, then sends it over the network through the client device. This would be different, in that the controller wouldn't be connected to the client, but the server itself directly.

My point was they would not refer to that as cloud gaming. You can direct control remote play using bluetooth right now if you're in range of the base unit. WiFi would just effectively extend that range to anywhere with wireless internet. Remote Play isn't defined by the method of control input transmission, but by the use of the personally owned PlayStation unit as the rendering server.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I haven't seen a lot of examples that refer to cloud gaming as something you do locally. In any case the patent seems to be talking about specifically about cloud gaming through the internet.

eExLJjFgR_OZtzy7zpxwGtrN1Rgp6vgwqbaciJloZCIkn3VW5QzpCVGJONn8FuT995pUWSb1stPBm-0eXP61slAWAmovrNr-8pOCSjXt-j8fcF3aK4VhHfiBBeXbNvSqqtT3-YbC5tvLlhp1pK7gGceG5VMs5YeK5uEQATF6dyufuBFUbFOt0Lz-CKc2Rs3Y



"Cloud" literally just means server. Things like Steam Streaming is "cloud gaming." See the cloud Valve uses to describe it:
InHomeStreamingDiagram.jpg

Local NAS drives and SMB servers are known as "personal clouds."

And no, the patent is NOT specifically talking about internet. The abstract describes 3 scenarios for the use of the patent, only 1 of which is internet based. The other that I've described -- a personal cloud -- is literally in the abstract. And the claims never once mention the words "internet." Only "network" and "server."
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
My point was they would not refer to that as cloud gaming. You can direct control remote play using bluetooth right now if you're in range of the base unit. WiFi would just effectively extend that range to anywhere with wireless internet. Remote Play isn't defined by the method of control input transmission, but by the use of the personally owned PlayStation unit as the rendering server.

You can use "cloud gaming" to describe remote play, they're not at all mutually exclusive. In fact, remote play is a form of cloud gaming. "Cloud" is just a buzzword anyways, "cloud" just means "server-client."
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,559
"Cloud" literally just means server. Things like Steam Streaming is "cloud gaming." See the cloud Valve uses to describe it:
InHomeStreamingDiagram.jpg

Local NAS drives and SMB servers are known as "personal clouds."

And no, the patent is NOT specifically talking about internet. The abstract describes 3 scenarios for the use of the patent, only 1 of which is internet based. The other that I've described -- a personal cloud -- is literally in the abstract. And the claims never once mention the words "internet." Only "network" and "server."
Yea, but I'm pretty sure they are talking about PS now in this case, since Sony has always described ps now as cloud and remote play as remote play, just imo

plus it sounds very similar to the stadia controller which makes me think PSnow
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,865
The Milky Way
This is how the Stadia controller works to reduce latency. Will be interesting to understand what is different that allows them to file a patent.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,724
"Cloud" literally just means server. Things like Steam Streaming is "cloud gaming." See the cloud Valve uses to describe it:
InHomeStreamingDiagram.jpg

Local NAS drives and SMB servers are known as "personal clouds."

And no, the patent is NOT specifically talking about internet. The abstract describes 3 scenarios for the use of the patent, only 1 of which is internet based. The other that I've described -- a personal cloud -- is literally in the abstract. And the claims never once mention the words "internet." Only "network" and "server."

I understood they used the term personal cloud mostly because you can access the data from outside your house. Network drive or network attached storage are the terms I'm used to seeing when referring to a drive that connect to a router for local access only. I can't see the term cloud gaming on the Valve picture you posted, please let me know if I'm missing anything. You can see the word "Internet" right in the middle of the picture I shared, that should mean cloud gaming through the internet right? I'm not denying that this controller could also be used for local network play though, just saying that I'm not used to seeing the term cloud gaming to talk about local network gaming and that the patent does specifically mentions the Internet.
 
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Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
How can they patent this when the Stadia controller already does it?
Probably the key thing to understand about patents is: you cannot patent an idea. You patent a specific, workable implementation of that idea. If Google have patented the Stadia controller, it doesn't mean that nobody else can ever patent any controller that connects to a server via a wireless connection. It means that anyone else who wants to patent that has to patent something with some significant difference in how it's implemented.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
You can use "cloud gaming" to describe remote play, they're not at all mutually exclusive. In fact, remote play is a form of cloud gaming. "Cloud" is just a buzzword anyways, "cloud" just means "server-client."

One could. Sony doesn't. Not sure why you've chosen such a pointless hill to die on.