My neighbor seemed so normal before he made a tank in his garage and destroyed half the town. Just a normal quiet guy.Yeah I'm just gonna say that this is very problematic thinking. Basically textbook confirmation bias.
My neighbor seemed so normal before he made a tank in his garage and destroyed half the town. Just a normal quiet guy.Yeah I'm just gonna say that this is very problematic thinking. Basically textbook confirmation bias.
My neighbor seemed so normal before he made a tank in his garage and destroyed half the town. Just a normal quiet guy.
Yeah I'm just gonna say that this is very problematic thinking. Basically textbook confirmation bias.
by "normal guy" i meant he doesn't have a fucking history of rape. but obviously you guys are taking the piss here so enjoy the back and forth between the same 10-12 people.
so in your world, one piece of evidence is equal to 100 pieces of evidence? and circumstantial = physical? you don't work in the courts do you? please for the love of god say no
also, summarizing my post with a shit post and calling my opinion horseshit, miss me with that. thanks. that opinion is shared by most of the population and thankfully the court system. enjoy your bubble bud
Do you really think most sexual abusers are just openly evil people. This is not how shit works. This is not what I experienced. Many people thought they were just normal and doing normal things with a good reputation.i'm not throwing water on reade's story, just saying a point not in her favor is beyond inappropriate touching and such, biden's a pretty normal guy with a normal record. it's hard to convince me, and many people i've spoken to about this, that biden suddenly for the first time in his life, turned evil complete rapist and then snapped back to his current form and maintained it for decades. you can believe women while also understanding a couple pieces of circumstantial evidence is hard to throw someone completely under the bus for.
That this post gets to just stand here for admitted victims of sexual assault to read is absolutely disgusting.
this changes with EVIDENCE. i'm obviously not saying just because he doesn't have a long list of rape means he didn't do it, i'm only saying that it helps his case over hers. especially, for the 14th time, the evidence is circumstantial and there's not a whole lot of it
this is how it works in the court and in public opinion (and juries).
i'm also trying to find data for repeat sexual offenders and rapists and am having trouble. most numbers i see are in the lower quarter double-digits. i'd like to see them if anyone has research into (not opinion pieces).
Agree. Also Biden already had a rep for being "handsy"(how this was ever ok i'll never understand). So he's not some upstanding citizen who just all of a sudden assaulted a woman.Do you really think most sexual abusers are just openly evil people. This is not how shit works. This is not what I experienced. Many people thought they were just normal and doing normal things with a good reputation.
It's also a major reason why many people don't step forward. Because people who act this way often hide it well and they know the responses they'll get is "but they're a nice person".
Yeah I'm just gonna say that this is very problematic thinking. Basically textbook confirmation bias.
Some really horrible shit was normalized in the past. If you like any big name music talents from the 70s who did a lot of touring and you don't want to have conflicted feelings about them, don't look into it.Agree. Also Biden already had a rep for being "handsy"(how this was ever ok i'll never understand). So he's not some upstanding citizen who just all of a sudden assaulted a woman.
You think it's a fact that there hasn't been one or more cases where someone raped someone one time and never again? Also, I would put money down that a lot of people thought of as respectable did some horrendous stuff decades ago and haven't done anything since. Be it at parties, or where ever.Look it might be problematic thinking, but it is supported by facts when you look at the profile of people who commit rape. Its never just 1 unless they get caught right after that 1. But problematic obviously, because at the end of the day we will never know either way, unless 1 comes forward(never know if there is or isn't more victims). So unless Biden confesses, or she retracts her story this will probably be nibbled on in the sidelines of news coverage for the next couple of months but probably never fully blown story that carries weight.
I know people are calling for Investigate, investigate. I am sure News Organizations are investigating and trying to comb through prior staffers, friends etc.. trying to get some corroboration of other instances of this very serious allegation. But its not going to be easy to get that information, this is the presumptive Democratic nominee and looking at polls and general sentiment quiet possibly the next POTUS. Its politics in a presidential year and people are not going to want to lose an opportunity to get ahead.
Is that honestly necessary in your eyes at this point? It feels like many have already decided. Is it possible you would change your mind?
Obviously if suddenly we have evidence that Reade somehow made up the whole thing end convinced her family and friends to all lie to the press for her, that would be another story. Barring that, there's no reason to doubt her account. The "contrary evidence" so far has been easily refuted.
Obviously if suddenly we have evidence that Reade somehow made up the whole thing end convinced her family and friends to all lie to the press for her, that would be another story. Until then there's no reason to doubt her account. The "contrary evidence" so far has been easily refuted.
You think it's a fact that there hasn't been one or more cases where someone raped someone one time and never again? Also, I would put money down that a lot of people thought of as respectable did some horrendous stuff decades ago and haven't done anything since. Be it at parties, or where ever.
Serial rapists are easier to catch because they keep leaving new evidence over and over.
Basing things on conviction rates, when we know that rape is incredibly hard to prove in anything but the most shocking and brutal incidences is ignoring that the vast majority of rapes don't look like the ones that lead to prison time.
"If there's one, there'll be more," is a safe bet, like "always suspect the spouse", but it isn't a hard rule.
You think it's a fact that there hasn't been one or more cases where someone raped someone one time and never again? Also, I would put money down that a lot of people thought of as respectable did some horrendous stuff decades ago and haven't done anything since. Be it at parties, or where ever.
Serial rapists are easier to catch because they keep leaving new evidence over and over.
Basing things on conviction rates, when we know that rape is incredibly hard to prove in anything but the most shocking and brutal incidences is ignoring that the vast majority of rapes don't look like the ones that lead to prison time.
"If there's one, there'll be more," is a safe bet, like "always suspect the spouse", but it isn't a hard rule.
The guy who had at best awful relations with non-white minorities?I told y'all to nominate the gay dude.
Having said that, I'm not sure how much this changes anything. Transcript seems to refer more to the general harassment claims that were brought up last year (and that Reade said she filed the complaint about) rather than these sexual assault allegations. It's too nonspecific to be considered hard proof, but I'd like to hear the full audio.
Legitimately it feels weird to push this. Biden has had a history of violating the personal space of several women (And children). In addition today we now have collaborating evidence that this is an event that (Giving benefit of doubt) after the event happened was shared with multiple people at that time.Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
Reade is the person making the accusation, and she is credible, backed by corroborating accounts. Unless Biden has proof or some kind of evidence that shows she has made up her story, along with everyone else around her, no, there is nothing he can do to hurt Reade's account.Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
Nope.Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
I'm going to paraphrase Ed Kemper:I am not talking about convictions rates. This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with how society has come to see how these sort of things play out when it comes to high profile individuals and allegations that can't be taken to court because of time and therefore play out on live TV. With Cosby it started at 1, same with others.. That sort of thing has sort of been how these stories have played out... It was 1 hit after another with some new accuser or further details that corroborate.
Not to mention that television has ingrained into the minds of the public that Rapist behavior is not one and done. The most successful Cop Drama on TV for the last 15 years has been dealing with rape case on TV and creating a profile for viewers of the rape culture and a profile of a rapist. I'll be honest, me and the wife watch that show almost every day(an episode or two in the afternoon, what can I say my wife really likes shows like that and ID stuff), and one of the major themes through out the show that gets brought up a lot is "its never one and done".
Maybe that is a conversation for another time though. Don't want to derail into a minute detail. But honestly I would love to have a conversation about that point. Is "its never just one" really a good analysis of a rapist?
When Fox News is beating you on women's rights. The USA media landscape is a disgrace.
And Biden is a disgrace for hoping that this just blows over. Great leadership material.
Given Biden's history, not sure why he should be given the benefit of the doubt. At this point, he would need to prove Reade is lying without a shadow of doubt.Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
Get ready for an exoneration parade if the current investigation doesn't turn up significant evidence to support Reade further.As I feel like I've said countless times at this point, while there might be an investigation of some nature, you aren't going to see Biden charged with anything no matter what due to the statute of limitation on this. Which is bullshit, of course, but anyone hoping for some ruling from some third party authority giving a clear answer to Biden's guilt or innocence is never going to get that.
You can ignore the allegations, or consider them. You can weigh up Reade's credibility. You can look at Biden's record and weigh that up. Ultimately, we are all going to be left with our own determinations.
Some will remain convinced he is innocent. Some will remain convinced Reade's account is true. Some will never get enough information to make a firm decision one way or the other.
And frankly, it's going to be a personal thing. We can talk about standards of guilt all day long. We can pretend that we can approach this like we are all courts... but there's a reason that a court uses a panel of jurors for crimes like this rather than just one person.
Baseless attacks against Reade's character are just a way to avoid weighing her account against the person we believe Joe Biden to be. Personally, I find them appalling, and I haven't seen anything levelled at her that came close to undermining her account in any way.
But I can't tell someone else they should have made their mind up by now. I was convinced by her account. People that haven't yet been convinced by what they've seen so far... they aren't broken or evil in my eyes. This new information has convinced some people that weren't there yet that what Reade is saying is true. We're all wired with different biases and amounts of skepticism.
Nope.Is there anything Tara can realistically do to demonstrate he is? To an extent that people won't play devil's advocate?
Look it might be problematic thinking, but it is supported by facts when you look at the profile of people who commit rape. Its never just 1 unless they get caught right after that 1.
Receipts?Look it might be problematic thinking, but it is supported by facts when you look at the profile of people who commit rape. Its never just 1 unless they get caught right after that 1.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html . Details the profile of males and rape.
Men who rape tend to start young, in high school or the first couple of years of college, likely crossing a line with someone they know, the research suggests.
Some of these men commit one or two sexual assaults and then stop. Others — no one can yet say what portion — maintain this behavior or even pick up the pace.
Antonia Abbey, a social psychologist at Wayne State University, has found that young men who expressed remorse were less likely to offend the following year, while those who blamed their victim were more likely to do it again.
One repeat offender put it this way: "I felt I was repaying her for sexually arousing me."
There is a heated debate among experts about whether there is a point at which sexual assault becomes an entrenched behavior and what percentage of assaults are committed by serial predators.
Most researchers agree that the line between the occasional and frequent offender is not so clear. The recent work of Kevin Swartout, a professor of psychology and public health at Georgia State University, suggests that low-frequency offenders are more common on college campuses than previously thought.
"It's a matter of degree, more like dosage," said Mary P. Koss, a professor of public health at the University of Arizona, who is credited with coining the term "date rape."
Dosage of what? Certain factors — researchers call them "risk factors" while acknowledging that these men are nonetheless responsible for their actions — have an outsize presence among those who commit sexual assaults.
Heavy drinking, perceived pressure to have sex, a belief in "rape myths" — such as the idea that no means yes — are all risk factors among men who have committed sexual assault. A peer group that uses hostile language to describe women is another one.
Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
I think it would go a long way if he released documentation on why she was relieved of her duties. A record of warnings showing that it wasn't as sudden as she claims.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html . Details the profile of males and rape.
Couple that with what you see on TV and you start getting the picture of what is engrained in the general public mind when it comes to rapists.
Some of these men commit one or two sexual assaults and then stop. Others — no one can yet say what portion — maintain this behavior or even pick up the pace.
yeah I know, but you are skipping the part of the rest of the pattern. Most do it in high school or college. But don't just take the article, also take into account how rapists are presented on the news and in TV. This whole "not just one thing" has played out with Cosby and Weinstein recently and you get pelted with it in TV shows etc.
We aren't going to see a full criminal investigation when it can't lead to a conviction, and without a conviction, I can't see much happening. I know that Reade doesn't want to be used as an attack against Biden's election campaign. I know she doesn't want him to be the candidate.Get ready for an exoneration parade if the current investigation doesn't turn up significant evidence to support Reade further.
Which is the very likely outcome here, as with most investigations of sexual assault
And that's probably completely appropriate. If this isn't one of those rare times where the accusations are false, he should have to live with this, not just through out the campaign, but for the rest of his life, unless and until he stops running from it.That's not enough. There is nothing he can do that will clear his name of this. Even if its not a big story all over the news, it will stay with him through out the campaign.
That's not enough. There is nothing he can do that will clear his name of this. Even if its not a big story all over the news, it will stay with him through out the campaign.
I just can't see it happening. The polls are showing that voters just don't care that much unfortunately. The people have spoken
Nope.
See, there is a part in most peoples brains that don't want to believe the worst in people. Statistics teach us that in the vast majority of rape cases, the woman isn't lying.
Which is to say, that those of us who have taken the stance to believe the woman, will on rare occasions be incorrectly believing that man is a rapist. There is a non-zero chance that *this* is one of those rare occasions.
And it's that part of us that makes us want to believe the best in people that takes that slim possibility and holds onto it. And for decades it lead to the attackers getting the benefit of the doubt, even though far more often than not, they didn't deserve it.
Now to be clear I'm not talking about changing the legal standard for a conviction here or anything. But if I'm going to make a determination for myself, I'd rather risk mistakenly believe someone isn't committing the crime of making a false accusation, than mistakenly believe that a victim is lying about their own rape.
Yeah thats probably how it will play out unless something else happens. :/And that's probably completely appropriate. If this isn't one of those rare times where the accusations are false, he should have to live with this, not just through out the campaign, but for the rest of his life, unless and until he stops running from it.
What precisely is your broader point? Because from my perspective, you seemed to have made a spurious generalization about the common profile of a rapist and have spent the next few posts undermining your premise.yeah I know, but you are skipping the part of the rest of the pattern. Most do it in high school or college. But don't just take the article, also take into account how rapists are presented on the news and in TV. This whole "not just one thing" has played out with Cosby and Weinstein recently and you get pelted with it in TV shows etc.
That is my broader point. From the perspective of how and why its playing out as it is right now.
Like I said in my other post, we're all wired with our own standards and biases, myself included. I don't negatively judge anyone who looks at this and goes 'You know, I want to see more before I can make up my mind'. That's wholly appropriate to me.I'm not sure that's the dichotomy. And I'm not sure assigning naivete about seeing the best in everyone as the motivation for not calling Biden a rapist is fair either. Do you think it's possible that a reasonable person could read all of the information we have available to us and be unwilling to conclude Biden committed rape? And by reasonable I mean not a rape apologist or someone dismissive of victims or some alt right men's rights activist. I mean someone approaching the situation honestly, fully embracing the idea of believe women and me too and simply not seeing enough to accuse a man of rape.
I guess I look at Warren and Sanders and Obama and don't really see people who would be willing to speak up for a man they believe is a rapist, especially the day after the investigative reporting comes out. And AOC especially, who came out and said victims should be heard but offered no comment at all beyond that. I can't imagine if she thought Joe Biden was a rapist she wouldn't make it a big deal. That she would not only silently accept but then loudly urge people to vote for someone she thought overpowered and raped a woman against a wall. I don't see them, or her, making the calculation of "that rape is ok because Trump has done and will do worse."
I think it's possible to both believe and support victims and also not see enough yet to label someone a rapist. And I think that's possible without having some flaw in the reasoning leading to that.
woah dude you're so smart that disclaimer saying you're not doing what you're doing will totally keep people from calling you out bro!
She said she filed a sexual harassment claim. Have the records that would show this been unsealed?Is there anything Biden could do to demonstrate he isn't a rapist?
Doesn't seem to be the case to me. Most will vote for Biden either way.One of the major political parties largely has morals when it comes to sexual assault. They will vote or abstain accordingly. The other does not give a fuck. They find things like this amusing.
Biden was the wrong horse to bet on.
To be clear, it's not turning your back. You can still participate in the process. But this isn't the thread for that conversation anyway. I can respect still voting for him but recognizing the severity of the situation and not throwing Reade and others to the wayside to get there. Everyone has to make that choice for themselves, but all I ask is for people to do the right thing and fight for victims to have their stories heard.We aren't going to see a full criminal investigation when it can't lead to a conviction, and without a conviction, I can't see much happening. I know that Reade doesn't want to be used as an attack against Biden's election campaign. I know she doesn't want him to be the candidate.
I chose to believe her and support him anyway. I didn't settle on that easily. If I didn't and Trump wins reelection, I will struggle to look myself in the mirror. But that's holding me up to my standards. For other people to make peace with this, they will turn their back on this election and let things fall where they fall.
And that's probably completely appropriate. If this isn't one of those rare times where the accusations are false, he should have to live with this, not just through out the campaign, but for the rest of his life, unless and until he stops running from it.
Like I said in my other post, we're all wired with our own standards and biases, myself included. I don't negatively judge anyone who looks at this and goes 'You know, I want to see more before I can make up my mind'. That's wholly appropriate to me.
She said she filed a sexual harassment claim. Have the records that would show this been unsealed?
That doesn't say what you said.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html . Details the profile of males and rape.
Couple that with what you see on TV and you start getting the picture of what is engrained in the general public mind when it comes to rapists.
That the lense of "theres never just one" is how this allegation as a whole is being viewed from by the National media and public. That in a sense right now they have set the bar on how these things play out on TV and 1 allegation of this nature will not derail this campaign or make for a sustainable story. That in order to make it national news they need that smoking gun. That if this allegation becomes Mainstream news and no other allegation comes out it will get buried and will have no effect in the general public because the public has been trained to expect 1 bomb after another in these sort of situations.What precisely is your broader point? Because from my perspective, seemed to make a spurious generalization about the common profile of a rapist and have spent the next few posts undermining your premise.
It would support Biden's claim. Not sure what you're getting at. You seem to think we shouldn't believe women because the accused is unable to provide an alibi or show the woman is lying.In that case is it fair to be made uncomfortable when others insist you're supporting a rapist even if your support is premised on the belief he hasn't been shown to be a rapist? That's the only situation I get uneasy about things. Like, my support isn't in spite of him being a rapist. My support is premised on the belief him being a rapist hasn't been demonstrated to this point.
If they were unsealed and the complaint wasn't there, would that serve as evidence in your eyes?
Have to read the whole section though, since it brings up the other part of when it starts.That doesn't say what you said.
"Some of these men commit one or two sexual assaults and then stop. Others — no one can yet say what portion — maintain this behavior or even pick up the pace."
Men who rape tend to start young, in high school or the first couple of years of college, likely crossing a line with someone they know, the research suggests.
Some of these men commit one or two sexual assaults and then stop. Others — no one can yet say what portion — maintain this behavior or even pick up the pace.