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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
And innocence, in the movie's eyes, is what needs to be protected at all costs. There are a handful of scenes that counteract some cringeworthy, car-wreck-in-progress bits of acting out with the simple pleasures of youth: a stuffed animal used as a between-floors greeting, a sugar rush fueled by a giddy candy binge, a slo-mo post-shopping skip down the street. When we do eventually arrive at the sequence involving the kids in those grotesque outfits that attracted criticism, the scene is played for anything but sleaze. It's merely the set up for lifting the veil from Amy's eyes, and for Doucouré final coup de grace. She's gone on record as saying Cuties is about how so many young woman are robbed of their youth early, and that the formative experiences of childhood need to be preserved. How she grants her character this sense of grace one last time, in a shot that slowly dips into magical realism, must be seen to be believed. It is anything but tragic. The fact that so few will be willing to see Cuties all because of a major, misleading marketing mistake — that's the tragedy.

www.rollingstone.com

'Cuties' Review: A Coming-of-Age Movie Caught in the Culture Wars

Forget Netflix's controversial marketing screw-up—the French coming-of-age movie 'Cuties' is anything but predatory or salacious. Our review.


It's weird you say the positive reception from crticis doesn't counter this narrative... when the positive reception from critics is entirely based on the fact it is flat out not the narrative you've suggested.


You'd literally have to suggest that the movie is saying western sexualization of women is good and liberating to argue the film is about Muslim girls being saved by the West.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
Watched the movie

I'd rather people engage with art and make up their own minds, but i'll say that the movie is neither child porn (lol) nor is it some scathing critique on Islam. Not to spoil too much, but the more oppresive elements of religion manifests itself in the protagonist's mother's current circumstance and her aunt's presence in her home, and is pretty compelling. I mean, I wouldn't mind if the film did say a ton about Islam, but its not really about that...

For those worried that the film is going "too far", I'll say that, without spoiling, there are alot of things in the film that remind you that this 11 year old girl is just experiencing one of many events she's sure to have in her life

If you've watched "Girlhood", another frech film about a black girl growing up, this is kinda like that but more youthful and safe. Dramatic? Yes, but these films are polar opposites in terms of endings lol. If the dancing angle really bothers you (which is intentional, though we all have our limits), I'd reccommend watching "Girlhood" for a similar fix because films like these are really nice. With that said I think "Cuties" has an advantage seeing as it's actually directed by a Black woman
 

Unspoken90

Member
Oct 28, 2017
956
I saw this trending again along with the IMDB parents guide, and it has to be fake, right?

Some of those scenes sound so purposely over the top. Like to the point of trolling.
 

Peru

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,143
Shameful to see seemingly functional, critical adults on places like this and others fall for out of context Qanon and conservatie mom forums' propaganda against this film. Have you folks never seen movies that show real life before?


I saw this trending again along with the IMDB parents guide, and it has to be fake, right?

Some of those scenes sound so purposely over the top. Like to the point of trolling.

The outrage? Yes that's fake, or lying.
 

kradical

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
Watched the movie

I'd rather people engage with art and make up their own minds, but i'll say that the movie is neither child porn (lol) nor is it some scathing critique on Islam. Not to spoil too much, but the more oppresive elements of religion manifests itself in the protagonist's mother's current circumstance and her aunt's presence in her home, and is pretty compelling. I mean, I wouldn't mind if the film did say a ton about Islam, but its not really about that...

For those worried that the film is going "too far", I'll say that, without spoiling, there are alot of things in the film that remind you that this 11 year old girl is just experiencing one of many events she's sure to have in her life

If you've watched "Girlhood", another frech film about a black girl growing up, this is kinda like that but more youthful and safe. Dramatic? Yes, but these films are polar opposites in terms of endings lol. If the dancing angle really bothers you (which is intentional, though we all have our limits), I'd reccommend watching "Girlhood" for a similar fix because films like these are really nice. With that said I think "Cuties" has an advantage seeing as it's actually directed by a Black woman

Thanks for this, hopefully this will put some panicky minds to rest.
Looking forward to watching it, if it's half as good as "Girlhood" it will be great
 

Cub3h

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
438
I think the people that are outraged have a decent point, although it's obfuscated by all the right wing loons and their hysteria.

Should a movie that highlights the plight of animal abuse actually shoot animals to make the point? You could have made this movie without having actual children grabbing their crotches and then zooming the camera in on it. It would have still made the exact same point, without subjecting the actual underage actors to the questionable scenes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
I mean they is not the director of the film, who your post was directed at
My post is a criticism of the Western media apparatus and its representation of Muslims, especially those who are immigrants from the so-called "Orient".

www.rollingstone.com

'Cuties' Review: A Coming-of-Age Movie Caught in the Culture Wars

Forget Netflix's controversial marketing screw-up—the French coming-of-age movie 'Cuties' is anything but predatory or salacious. Our review.


It's weird you say the positive reception from crticis doesn't counter this narrative... when the positive reception from critics is entirely based on the fact it is flat out not the narrative you've suggested.

You'd literally have to suggest that the movie is saying western sexualization of women is good and liberating to argue the film is about Muslim girls being saved by the West.
I am saying that the film being positively received by critics is not indicative of it not being a problematic representation of my culture. I really don't know how many times I need to tell you this, man, but if it really is true that the film was misrepresented by its marketing then I don't have a problem with it. My response is to the trailer, which is what I watched.

No, but the implication is clear. Why even bring up hoaxes at all if you aren't trying to float that possibility?
Fair enough. That wasn't my intention.
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,843
I saw the clip in the other thread and honestly the framing wasn't actually that bad. It seem more like it was supposed to make you feel uncomfortable.

Watched the movie

I'd rather people engage with art and make up their own minds, but i'll say that the movie is neither child porn (lol) nor is it some scathing critique on Islam. Not to spoil too much, but the more oppresive elements of religion manifests itself in the protagonist's mother's current circumstance and her aunt's presence in her home, and is pretty compelling. I mean, I wouldn't mind if the film did say a ton about Islam, but its not really about that...

For those worried that the film is going "too far", I'll say that, without spoiling, there are alot of things in the film that remind you that this 11 year old girl is just experiencing one of many events she's sure to have in her life

If you've watched "Girlhood", another frech film about a black girl growing up, this is kinda like that but more youthful and safe. Dramatic? Yes, but these films are polar opposites in terms of endings lol. If the dancing angle really bothers you (which is intentional, though we all have our limits), I'd reccommend watching "Girlhood" for a similar fix because films like these are really nice. With that said I think "Cuties" has an advantage seeing as it's actually directed by a Black woman
This definitely helps
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I am saying that the film being positively received by critics is not indicative of it not being a problematic representation of my culture. I really don't know how many times I need to tell you this, man, but if it really is true that the film was misrepresented by its marketing then I don't have a problem with it. My response is to the trailer, which is what I watched.

Why do you keep saying if...

Every inch of research would show you that it's not what you said it was.

I just pointed out the irony that even just reading the critical reviews would have shown you this...


The thing is there's a lot more than a trailer out now.... if you want to make the argument you are making the onus is on you to ensure you've got enough to support it.... and considering you've already announced you're not watching the movie... you do have wikipedia and what not...
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
I saw this trending again along with the IMDB parents guide, and it has to be fake, right?

Some of those scenes sound so purposely over the top. Like to the point of trolling.
Im not sure what was trending on twitter, but the most "shocking" dance scene I can think of does play a part in the message the film is sending in its latter half. I'll just say that the movie comments on the actions the girls take, so context is necessary
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
It is not a coincidence that the vast majority of Muslim representation in Western media revolves around sensationalized accounts of oppression. Whether intentional or not on the part of the author, it reinforces an Orientalist worldview that the problems Muslim women face are due to a monolithic problematic culture, and rarely takes into account the socio-economic factors that lead to the hardships in these women's lives.
Are you trying to mansplain the director's experience?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
Why do you keep saying if...

Every inch of research would show you that it's not what you said it was.

I just pointed out the irony that even just reading the critical reviews would have shown you this...
Because, frankly, I don't trust Western film critics' takes on Orientalist media. Done with this thread, I said what I wanted to say.

Are you trying to mansplain the director's experience?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. You caught me.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,193
Have you folks never seen movies that show real life before?
Lots of people in here only consume media that is related or adjacent to comics or video games. So yeah, seeing a non-Hollywood movie about Black girl sexuality is going to fire up new parts of their brains.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
Because, frankly, I don't trust Western film critics' takes on Orientalist media. Done with this thread, I said what I wanted to say.

I mean it's an indie debut film written and directed by a Muslim woman based on her own experiences of childhood, and is as I say again (as the critics you don't trust point out) highly critical of western culture and how it sexualizes women and how that trickles down to young girls. Like in that article you posted one of the critiques of of the autobiographical book and what not is that they're ghostwritten.... This isn't that, Maïmouna Doucouré is first generation French Muslim woman, a child of immigrant parents from Senegal, this movie is written by her hand and shot with her eyes.... It speaks to Western culture and the culture of her parents, and the clashes therein because that was her experience. She's literally the auteur of this piece... and the clash is clearly not presented as good culture (west) vs bad culture (the culture of her parents).... it is not a story of a Muslim Girl being rescued from her bad Muslim culture by the good Western Culture... which you can see in just about any review of it, or any quotes Doucouré has about what she was attempting to do with this story.
 
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OmegaDragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
214
I just saw it because of all the ruckus (it sounded interesting when I heard about the trailer and I didn't have anything better to do). I'm not into super into arthouse films, but I like it and would recommend it. The dance scenes are really uncomfortable, also due to how they are filmed, but there are like 3 in the movie? Most of the movie is about young girls hanging out and being young girls. And not understanding what they are seeing online and going off the rails.

Seen this get shared quite a bit on Twitter and Facebook.



All of them, except the '5 old takes a turn at webcam porn' are in the movie. But there are very well done. Some of them are just kids being kids (the condom scene is actually pretty funny and not sexual at all). Some are rightfully shocking (I had to pause the movie and take a break at one scene) but again not sexualised.
The only thing that is filmed in a way that are the dances scenes
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
The movie has to nail quite the balancing act. From reading this thread it seems to do a both sides are at fault. Quite interested in seeing where the main message of the movie falls into.
 

Atilac

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
688
I can't name the term, but it seems like some are mistaking this movies criticism of sexualising children, with supporting it.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,435
Phoenix
Just saw #cancelnetflix trending and yeah the description of scenes I saw are sickening...but critics are giving it good reviews and it has won awards.

Wtf is happening? Is it really bad? Are you gonna end up a list if you watch this? Or are people just blowing out of proportion, overreacting, and just looking to rage?
Nothing, but maybe some bad marketing choices for the US market by Netflix. No because there is no nudity or sex in this movie or sexual situations, jesus, stop reading alt-right sources (which mostly likely means take a break from Facebook). Yes, yes, yes.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,435
Phoenix
I think the people that are outraged have a decent point, although it's obfuscated by all the right wing loons and their hysteria.

Should a movie that highlights the plight of animal abuse actually shoot animals to make the point? You could have made this movie without having actual children grabbing their crotches and then zooming the camera in on it. It would have still made the exact same point, without subjecting the actual underage actors to the questionable scenes.

A movie about animal abuse would use cuts and CG and the like or already public footage of abuse and wouldn't create it. Likewise, none of these girls are experiencing the things their story is about. Hollywood and the movie industry at large has been doing this for a long time with child actors, they know how to shield them from the content.

If twerking is child abuse, a lot of parents about to be arrested because I don't think I've ever met a 11 year old girl that didn't start to think about looking sexy and wanted to express themselves through dancing and the like or posting procative poses on social media (like kissing poses, etc). I have to say, either none of y'all are around kids of this age or your kids are so repressed they are going to explode in their teenager years. Good luck.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
I just watched the movie (most of it). I have a question for the people defending this movie, have any of you watched it?

I don't understand what this movie is about. It is certainly not child porn, but it does gratuitously sexualize the girls to the point where it is gross and confusing. I genuinely don't understand the point of including most of the scenes; they could have told a much better story without most, if not all of it.

I am just going to lay it out without concern for spoilers. Throughout the movie the main group of girls are dressed like adults who are aware of their sexuality (tight pants, short shorts, low cut shirts, etc), but nothing too terrible or out of the norm for the USA (not approving or disapproving of it, just stating it). They have dance rehearsal segments that are spliced in-between story segments that are sexualized. The camera focuses on their crotches and butts while they preform sexualized dance moves. To me, there is zero point to these segments except to sexualize the girls. There is a scene where Amy has her pants pulled down and you can see her butt (in underwear). Again, this scene serves no point. Later in the movie, after Amy gets in trouble for acting out, stealing a phone, posting a picture of her genitals to social media (you don't actually see anything), and stabbing a class mate with a pen, her mother subjects her to a cultural ritual in order to cleanse her spirit (or something like that). She is basically standing in a room in her underwear with her mother and grandmother (or aunt?) and they are spraying her with water. At first Amy is crying and shaking but for some reason she starts twerking as her mother looks on in disbelief. I shared the same expression as the camera zoomed around and focused on her butt. It was bizarre and creepy, and again the point was lost to me. I stopped watching the movie during the dance contest finals. This takes place after the girl group kicks Amy out for causing trouble with all the crazy shit she did. They bring back one of the girls they previously kicked out to return as the fourth dancer in their group. Since Amy is a psychopath and refuses to accept her fate, she decides to ambush the new girl and push her into a river. She then stares in shock (?) as the girl struggles to swim (it looks like she is going to drown), but then Amy quickly moves on to the dance contest once she sees the other girl reach a small buoy. Then the dance finals start and it is a hyper sexualized dance routine with the camera focused on all of their parts. It is really gratuitous and gross; it was shot like a music video that was overtly using sex as a selling point. I turned it off at this with about 15 min left. I don't know what movie the critics saw, but to me this movie is about a group of psychopathic 11 year old girls. Do 11 year old girls really act like this? The sexualization of the girls is front and center and gratuitous to the point that I really do think it undermines any "point" the creators tried to conveyed. There was only one really enjoyable part of the movie. There is a scene where the girls meet a group of older guys (teenagers). One of the guys askes how old they are because they look young and one of the girls says 14, but Amy says 11. The guys walk away making jokes about their age and how they are dressed, but the girl who said 14 keeps yelling back to them that she knows her multiplication tables as if it was evidence that she is older. It was actually a cute and funny scene.
 
Last edited:

woman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Atlanta
I am saying that the film being positively received by critics is not indicative of it not being a problematic representation of my culture. I really don't know how many times I need to tell you this, man, but if it really is true that the film was misrepresented by its marketing then I don't have a problem with it. My response is to the trailer, which is what I watched.

Is it your culture though? West African Muslims (in this case, Senegal) have a unique way of life that isn't shared by Muslims from the MENA region.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,435
Phoenix
I just watched the movie (most of it). I have a question for the people defending this movie, have any of you watched it?

I don't understand what this movie is about. It certainly not child porn, but it does gratuitously sexualize the girls to the point where it is gross and confusing. I genuinely don't understand the point of including most of the scenes; they could have told a much better movie without most, if not all of it.

I am just going to lay it out without concern for spoilers. Throughout the movie the main group of girls are dressed like adults who are aware of their sexuality (tight pants, short shorts, low cut shirts, etc), but nothing too terrible or out of the norm for the USA (not approving or disapproving of it, just stating it). They have dance rehearsal segments that are spliced in-between story segments that are sexualize. The camera focuses on their crotches and butts while they preform sexualized dance moves. To me, there is zero point to these segments except to sexualize the girls. There is a scene where Amy has her pants pulled down and you can see her butt (in underwear). Again, this scene serves no point. Later in the movie, after Amy gets in trouble for acting out, stealing a phone, posting a picture of her genitals to social media (you don't actually see anything), and stabbing a class mate with a pen, her mother subjects her to a cultural ritual in order to cleanse her spirit (or something like that). She is basically standing in a room in her underwear with her mother and grandmother (or aunt?) and they are spraying her with water. At first Amy is crying and shaking but for some reason she starts tweaking as her mother looks on in disbelief. I shared the same expression as the camera zoomed around focused on her butt. It was bizarre and creepy, and again the point was lost to me. I stopped watching the movie during the dance contest finals. This takes place after the girl group kicks Amy out for causing trouble with all the crazy shit she did. They bring back one of the girls they previously kicked out to return as the fourth dancer in their group. Since Amy is a psychopath and refuses to accept her fate, she decides to ambush the new girl and push her into a river. She then stares in shock (?) as the girl struggles to swim (it looks like she is going to drown), but then Amy quickly moves on to the dance contest once she sees the other girl reach a small buoy. Then the dance finally starts and it is a hyper sexualized dance routine with the camera focused on all of their parts. It is really gratuitous and gross;. it was shot like a music video that was overtly using sex as a selling point. I turned it off at this with about 15 min left. I don't know what movie the critics saw, but to me this movie is about a group of psychopathic 11 girls. Do 11 year old girls really act like this? The sexualization of the girls is front and center and gratuitous to the point that I really do think it undermines any "point" the creators tried to conveyed. There was only one really enjoyable part of the movie. There is a scene where the girls meet a group of older guys (teenagers). One of the guys askes how old they are because they look young and one of the girls says 14, but Amy says 11. The guys walk away making jokes about their age and how they are dressed, but the girl who said 14 keeps yelling back to them that she knows her multiplication tables as if it was evidence that she is older. It was actually a cute and funny scene.
Admittedly I have not seen all of it, just parts. But, maybe it's supposed to make me uncomfortable. Actually, that it does, is probably a good thing. So many young girls of this age are exposed to not just sexualization but actual sex, especially by family members.

I have concluded this is not a movie I would enjoy watching, but, I still think it's a story that needs to be told and I think a good one for young girls to watch in particular.
 
Mar 10, 2018
8,758
z9quab1.jpg


uuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhWHAT
The premise seems suspect on the surface but this does happen in real life. Hopefully the film conducts a mature analysis of this phenomenon.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
Watched the movie

I'd rather people engage with art and make up their own minds, but i'll say that the movie is neither child porn (lol) nor is it some scathing critique on Islam. Not to spoil too much, but the more oppresive elements of religion manifests itself in the protagonist's mother's current circumstance and her aunt's presence in her home, and is pretty compelling. I mean, I wouldn't mind if the film did say a ton about Islam, but its not really about that...

For those worried that the film is going "too far", I'll say that, without spoiling, there are alot of things in the film that remind you that this 11 year old girl is just experiencing one of many events she's sure to have in her life

If you've watched "Girlhood", another frech film about a black girl growing up, this is kinda like that but more youthful and safe. Dramatic? Yes, but these films are polar opposites in terms of endings lol. If the dancing angle really bothers you (which is intentional, though we all have our limits), I'd reccommend watching "Girlhood" for a similar fix because films like these are really nice. With that said I think "Cuties" has an advantage seeing as it's actually directed by a Black woman

They could have told a really interesting story about how the two cultures clash/compliment each other. They could have told a more interesting story that revolved around the mother and how her husband took on a second wife, how that affected Amy. They could have used Amy's perspective to show the real world struggles some people face, to show how much culture shapes what people accept and reject. How to juggle a life between traditional culture that expects women to be submissive and reserved, and a more liberal one that embraces women's sexuality (but again why 11 year old girls?) They did touch on some of this stuff directly (but it was a light touch), and if there was a deeper reason to Amy's psychopathy (like her trying to deal with making friends, fitting in, her mother and father taking on a new wife), then all that was tucked underneath the gratuitous sexualization of the girls.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330


You don't see the irony that all your posts blame the children for their own victimization at the hands of our culture that defines women by their sexual worth to the point that it is sold to young girls... children.

The whole point of the movie is to make you uncomfortable... because this is what our culture sells to little girls.... and here you are calling them psychopaths.


and a more liberal one that embraces women's sexuality (but again why 11 year old girls?)

Because this movie isn't about sexual liberation?! Or embracing sexuality? Sexual liberation is something adults get to choose or not choose to do, it's about children because it's about the way toxic sex norms get transmitted in our culture to the point that even little girls pick up on it and internalize it...

Also you know it's based on the writer/director's own childhood struggles?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
They could have told a really interesting story about how the two cultures clash/compliment each other. They could have told a more interesting story that revolved around the mother and how her husband took on a second wife, how that affected Amy. They could have used Amy's perspective to show the real world struggles some people face, to show how much culture shapes what people accept and reject. How to juggle a life between traditional culture that expects women to be submissive and reserved, and a more liberal one that embraces women's sexuality (but again why 11 year old girls?) They did touch on some of this stuff directly (but it was a light touch), and if there was a deeper reason to Amy's psychopathy (like her trying to deal with making friends, fitting in, her mother and father taking on a new wife), then all that was tucked underneath the gratuitous sexualization of the girls.
I disagree with a movie centered around the mother being more interesting, and I'm not sure why the director would write that story seeing as she's supposed to be telling her experiences through the young female protagonist. I also disagree with any social issue being "tucked underneath" the girls sexual actions, because every bold moment of that nature is followed by some sort of commentary (e.g. the "flirting" scene being juxtaposed with the "condom" scene to speak on the girls' ignorance).
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,383
You don't see the irony that all your posts blame the children for their own victimization at the hands of our culture that defines women by their sexual worth to the point that it is sold to young girls... children.

The whole point of the movie is to make you uncomfortable... because this is what our culture sells to little girls.... and here you are calling them psychopaths.




Because this movie isn't about sexual liberation?! Or embracing sexuality? Sexual liberation is something adults get to choose or not choose to do, it's about children because it's about the way toxic sex norms get transmitted in our culture to the point that even little girls pick up on it and internalize it...

Also you know it's based on the writer/director's own childhood struggles?

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I want to add some nuance to the argument you're making. What the movie is about doesn't necessarily absolve it of any criticism. What's important is how it tackles those subjects. A movie can be about an important subject and be derived from the personal experiences of someone, but can still end up tackling those subjects in a poor way. I'd be much more interested in finding out how it goes about those things.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I want to add some nuance to the argument you're making. What the movie is about doesn't necessarily absolve it of any criticism. What's important is how it tackles those subjects. A movie can be about an important subject and be derived from the personal experiences of someone, but can still end up tackling those subjects in a poor way. I'd be much more interested in finding out how it goes about those things.

Right but when you start talking about wanting the movie to be about the exact opposite thing it is about..... it's not really crticism as much as fanfiction
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,130
I am saying that the film being positively received by critics is not indicative of it not being a problematic representation of my culture. I really don't know how many times I need to tell you this, man, but if it really is true that the film was misrepresented by its marketing then I don't have a problem with it. My response is to the trailer, which is what I watched.
Regarding the particular issue regarding the muslim representation in the movie, I would have to say that I had the similar early reaction towards the trailer. It's a French movie and it's basically now a yearly occurence to see a movie showing a muslim girl being "liberated" from her culture/family and embracing what is commonly said to be the French way of life.

The principal issue with this movie from French minorities was actually about that point.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,686
Costa Rica
Do 11 year old girls really act like this?
Yes.

I don't know where you're from but here the disgusting "Reggaetón" culture is imitated by very VERY young kids in some less educated areas more often than not with their parents encouraging it.

Back when I was 12 I attended several parties where other 12 year old girls grinded, touched and seductively danced to guys to the tune of the Reggaeton song "Noche de Sexo" (Sex Night). I remember calling my dad and asking him to get me the fuck out of there.

All I wanted was cake man...

That was 15 years ago. It can only be worse now.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,689
Haven't seen this but the vibe I'm getting is this is full of real experiences young girls might have to face and go through, and it isn't always comfortable, especially to them- and that's an important thing to examine when you think about how experiences shape people and the cultural forces behind them, like we can't not examine it because it makes people uncomfortable. I'd like to hear more from women that have seen it and get their take on it and if it does a good job saying what it's trying to say.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
You don't see the irony that all your posts blame the children for their own victimization at the hands of our culture that defines women by their sexual worth to the point that it is sold to young girls... children.

I am not blaming any child. I am criticizing the adults that made a move that literally focuses the camera on young girls genitals as they perform a hypersexualized dance routine in very tight clothing. I am just going to put this out there as explicitly as possible. The problem with this film needs to be made clear. The dance routine at the end has the girls bending over and preforming sexualized dance moves while the camera focuses on their genitals. You can literally see the shape of their genitals (to put it crudely, cameltoe). Not once, not by accident, but instead multiple deliberate (sometimes in slow motion) camera shots. That is valid criticism regardless of who made the movie or what they were trying to convey.


The whole point of the movie is to make you uncomfortable... because this is what our culture sells to little girls.... and here you are calling them psychopaths.

Have you seen the move yet? Let me make another scene more explicit. Do you know why Amy takes a picture of her genitals and posts it to social media? No, because I don't know either, and I would love for somebody to explain it in a rational way. This is what happened. Earlier in the movie, Amy steals a neighbor's cell phone so that she can watch dance videos, post to social media, and connect with the other girls in the group. When the neighbor finds out that she took the phone, Amy pleads with him to give it back. She starts to undress herself in an attempt to seduce him, but he pushes her away. Then she starts attacking and biting him. She then grabs the phone and locks herself in the bathroom while the neighbor bags on the door. As she is sitting on the floor, for no reason that is clear to me or suggested by the movie, she the then pulls down her pants and underwear and takes a picture of her vagina. She cries as she uploads it to social media. Then she throws the phone out the bathroom door. What...the...fuck?! Without suggesting the girl is a psychopath, please explain to me how this makes any sense or is good story telling.

Because this movie isn't about sexual liberation?! Or embracing sexuality? Sexual liberation is something adults get to choose or not choose to do, it's about children because it's about the way toxic sex norms get transmitted in our culture to the point that even little girls pick up on it and internalize it...

Also you know it's based on the writer/director's own childhood struggles?

Have you seen the movie yet?


I disagree with a movie centered around the mother being more interesting, and I'm not sure why the director would write that story seeing as she's supposed to be telling her experiences through the young female protagonist. I also disagree with any social issue being "tucked underneath" the girls sexual actions, because every bold moment of that nature is followed by some sort of commentary (e.g. the "flirting" scene being juxtaposed with the "condom" scene to speak on the girls' ignorance).

It was just a suggestion, I didn't mean that it would be a better story. And the condom scene was also pretty good. There are actually some good segments in there and I believe a compelling story could have been told. It just didn't happen though. There are too many scenes that make no sense and do not appear to serve the story, and coincidently they all sexualize the girls.
 
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ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
Yes.

I don't know where you're from but here the disgusting "Reggaetón" culture is imitated by very VERY young kids in some less educated areas more often than not with their parents encouraging it.

Back when I was 12 I attended several parties where other 12 year old girls grinded, touched and seductively danced to guys to the tune of the Reggaeton song "Noche de Sexo" (Sex Night). I remember calling my dad and asking him to get me the fuck out of there.

All I wanted was cake man...

That was 15 years ago. It can only be worse now.

I am from the US, and I get that, young kids are very sexual. I grew up like that too. I remember middle school dances and junior prom, and everybody was grinding on everybody. That is not why I called them psychopaths.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
She then grabs the phone and locks herself in the bathroom while the neighbor bags on the door. As she is sitting on the floor, for no reason that is clear to me or suggested by the movie, she the then pulls down her pants and underwear and takes a picture of her vagina. She cries as she uploads it to social media. Then she throws the phone out the bathroom door. What...the...fuck?! Without suggesting the girl is a psychopath, please explain to me how this makes any sense or is good story telling.
I mean... yeah that shit happens irl? Kids are pressured to be sexual, absorb sexual mores... like there's the story of AAron Coleman who had like 12 or 13 stole nudes of another child and demanded more or he'd revenge porn her... and when she refused did exactly that... but at some point that girl took the pictures... because our fucked up culture encourages it on some level.

And I mean go back further boys were encouraged to have sex young, there's the story of Mike Von Erich being encouraged to have orgies at 12.... ther story of his father buying prostitutes before that for his very young under age brothers.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,686
Costa Rica
I am from the US, and I get that, young kids are very sexual. I grew up like that too. I remember middle school dances and junior prom, and everybody was grinding on everybody. That is not why I called them psychopaths.

Kids doing awful shit to each other because of jealousy or insecurities is also not uncommon. Bullying happens too.

The thing with kids is that they can be really shitty.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I am not blaming any child. I am criticizing the adults that made a move that literally focuses the camera on young girls genitals as they perform a hypersexualized dance routine in very tight clothing. I am just going to put this out there as explicitly as possible. The problem with this film needs to be made clear. The dance routine at the end has the girls bending over and preforming sexualized dance moves while the camera focuses on their genitals. You can literally see the shape of their genitals (to put it crudely, cameltoe). Not once, not by accident, but instead multiple deliberate (sometimes in slow motion) camera shots. That is valid criticism regardless of who made the movie or what they were trying to convey.
Have you seen shit like child pageant culture? Which is sexualization sold as a positive thing?

These scenes are meant to actually show you what sexualization does... What it actually is....
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
Have you seen shit like child pageant culture? Which is sexualization sold as a positive thing?

These scenes are meant to actually show you what sexualization does... What it actually is....
Why are you bringing up child pageants as a justification for this?

I already find that stuff to be weird and gross. I'm not sure what further insight I'm supposed to get out of slow-motion close-ups of 11-year-old cameltoe, and why that couldn't be conveyed without filming that material at all.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
Why are you bringing up child pageants as a justification for this?

I already find that stuff to be weird and gross. I'm not sure what further insight I'm supposed to get out of slow-motion close-ups of 11-year-old cameltoe, and why that couldn't be conveyed without filming that material at all.



Because our vapid beauty culture sells sex to little girls as a good thing... while this is about showing you what adult sexuality being forced on children actually is... These things are supposed to be uncomfortable.

I'll go into detail when I have a chance to watch the movie... There's likely also plays with criticizing how the male gaze operates with adult women through male filmmakers...