Feb 24, 2018
6,007
I'm a Tekken fan, I enjoy most of them, the ones I've played at least (1-3, 6, Tag2 and 7 since I didn't own a PS2 until 2 years ago), but their are a few characters in the series I don't care for. Bryan Fury for example I just find dull and generic, I've seen random evil edgy man with a gun before for example. However their is one character from the series that I just find uncomfortable because of what he's done in the series and what he reminds me of, Marduk.
latest

(To be clear, this is not directed at anyone in particular on Era, this is not me doing a take that at anyone, this is just my feelings on the character.)

For those not familiar with Tekken's lore, Marduk was a Vale Tudo fighter before being expelled because of a "minor scandal" and then because he was in a bad mood at a bar, got into a fight and (accidentally in fairness) Armor King.

Okay let's get the worse thing about him out the way because it's the reason I'm writing this and I only realised this a week ago reading his trivia on the wiki because it seems like it's completely ignored by the fandom:

Marduk is a rapist and sexual abuser. he's sexist and It's heavily implied that the "minor scandal" that got him expelled was him sexually assaulting a woman and in Tekken 5, they had his sub-boss be Anna Williams and it's implied he rapes her after the fight.

I am honestly stunned by that, one that the Tekken dev thought putting that in was in anyway good, funny or didn't make themselves look horrible, but that the fandom ignores this, that it's treated as acceptable behaviour that should be ignored. WTF. No seriously, WTF! Like I'm going to to explain why I didn't like him that much before finding this out but, just WTF.


Even without that though, I just find Marduk just loathsome of a human being. Despite going to prison for his reckless behaviour, he doesn't care, in fact he takes glee in endangerouring people, hurting people, getting into fights and seriously injuring people like jumping into a boxing match and beating the fighters up to unconsciousness for no other reason but because he wanted to.

But the act that made me dislike him just completely was in Tekken 5, because he was petty and mad that King 2 beat him in a Tournament so he decides to just beat an entire tournament worth Vale Tudo fighters up to near death and bloody while wearing a black jaguar mask (aka, the mask worn by Armor King, the man he murdered and was King's tutor) and then declared, " King! You're next!"

Ignoring the assine logic of how he was allowed to continue his career after that, it just proved how much of an utter monster he was, to take glee and mock those he both murdered and those close to them because he couldn't accept he was beaten in a fair fight, why? What's appealing about that?

And yet, despite all this, we're somehow supposed to like him because he has a family (a family he himself has shown no care over I might add):

Not saying I want to see King become a murderer but it bothers me so much that games seems to downplay the horridness of his continued actions, that we should WANT King to become his friend and Marduk to get his career back. No, simply no, I'm not going to ignore it.

And the big thing that makes me uncomfortable about him is how his behavior is seen in both the fighting game fandom and the gaming community in general. Sexism, assault and other horrid things treated as normal from Competitive players because of the fandoms want for "drama" and because they play well therefore they should be forgiven, it's only been recently behaviour has finally being addressed seriously and even then, it makes me uncomfortable that the games themselves normalise this behaviour and characters like Murduk are treated as some of the most popular characters in the franchise (at least in the west).

Hell just in gaming in general, his type of petty, selfish attitude and personality is seen throughout the toxic side of gaming.

The character just bothers me, even if he was portrayed as a villain, it would be slightly better but, no, he's someone we're supposed to route for despite his awful actions.
 
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Hanbei

Member
Nov 11, 2017
4,089
It's Marduk, not Murduk. You've made the mistake 7 times, thread title included.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,649
Wait, people *like* him?

edit: I like how the name wasn't a typo either heh, could have atleast googled his name before going on a rant.
 

Ryuhza

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,728
San Diego County
Why do you keep calling him Murduk? His name is right there on his kneepad.

I always took him as a heel wrestler type taken to a Tekken-esque extreme. But yeah, Tekken hasn't really tried particularly hard in the writing department since 4.
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
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Oct 27, 2017
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Yeah him turning into a good guy was really bizarre. I think maybe the idea is it's meant to be like pro wrestling stories, where people switch back and forth like that, often with little to no explanation or comeuppance. Like I mean, it's not uncommon for a wrestler to attempt to kill someone, or steal their child, or commit horrible violence while cheating, but then they turn good and all is forgotten. I know this doesn't make much sense in the world of Tekken's lore overall, but that's all I've got.

I mean, it's also Tekken post T4, where anyone not a Mishima or directly related to them just doesn't matter and has joke endings that go no where.
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,245
The Tekken Franchise has numerous attempts at Patricide, Filicide, and Fratricide. Most of the characters aren't good people.
 

Rommaz

Member
Nov 27, 2017
6,291
Kitwe, Zambia.
I don't really have much to add other than I dislike him too. Was not happy that he was one of the season pass 2 chars because I find him boring.

Also

I hate fighting marduk players cos they beat me up, stupid tackle
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
It's Marduk, not Murduk. You've made the mistake 7 times, thread title included.
Isn't he named Marduk?
Wait, people *like* him?

edit: I like how the name wasn't a typo either heh, could have atleast googled his name before going on a rant.
Why do you keep calling him Murduk? His name is right there on his kneepad.

I always took him as a heel wrestler type taken to a Tekken-esque extreme. But yeah, Tekken hasn't really tried particularly hard in the writing department since 4.
Maybe Murduk is just a pun because he's a murderer
Should be the the ultimate evolution of Psyduck.

So in a topic about how a fan base ignores a character that rapes another as a joke this topic is off to a great start of people derailing it.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,649
So in a topic about how a fan base ignores a character that rapes another as a joke this topic is off to a great start of people derailing it.

It's a game where the main characters are both figuratively and literal monsters. The whole game is full of people that are absolute trash, and are way more respected and loved than Marduk has or ever will be even though they're arguably worse. I don't think I've ever seen anyone think of Marduk as a "good" character in anyway. If you can point me to a bunch of people looking at him as a role model, I'm on board but seems to me everyone already knows he's complete shit.
 

Femme Man

Member
Oct 28, 2017
433
Find it weird that out of all things presented in the OP, people choose to point out a simple spelling mistake. Huh...
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,380
I'm confused why people are getting so hung up on the misspelling of the name when it has nothing to do with the discussion OP is trying to lay out.

I don't have much to say because I'm not too familiar with Tekken but the cutscene in the OP is pretty gross. While reading through the Wiki it seems like there's some attempt to redeem him but overall I would still perceive him as a completely evil character. I don't believe Tekken has the ability to handle giving nuance to a character like that and I definitely don't think the gaming community at large is ready for it either.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,642
that pre-post fight cinema from T5 is fucking awful of a variety of reasons, but it does lead to an interesting discussion of whether a fictional character can be "rehabilitated" or retconned over things like this.
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
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Oct 27, 2017
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Well what are we supposed to say? It's a series with weird lore, and even weirder shifts in tone. Nobody is defending it and I've never seen anyone in the Tekken community talk about Marduk being a good character.
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
It's a game where the main characters are both figuratively and literal monsters. The whole game is full of people that are absolute trash, and are way more respected and loved than Marduk has or ever will be even though they're arguably worse. I don't think I've ever seen anyone think of Marduk as a "good" character in anyway. If you can point me to a bunch of people looking at him as a role model, I'm on board but seems to me everyone already knows he's complete shit.

So you you think a post fight line in a fighting game that is played like a joke is the right way to tackle the topic of rape in a video game? You dont think its a little tasteless or a little bit offensive? Not to mention the racist connotations of the light skinned woman calling the dark skinned man a neanderthal and then getting raped by him.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,649
So you you think a post fight line in a fighting game that is played like a joke is the right way to tackle the topic of rape in a video game? You dont think its a little tasteless or a little bit offensive? Not to mention the racist connotations of the light skinned woman calling the dark skinned man a neanderthal and then getting raped by him.

Yep you got me. I think all that. Take me away officer.

Seriously remove him from the game, I don't give a fuck since I hate the character. I don't think anyone would care honestly. Most of us were surprised he even came back.
 

Osu 16 Bit

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Oct 27, 2017
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Tekken 6 also has this bizarre plot point where Jin, the hero of the series up until that point, seemingly turned bad and started world war III...only for it to be revealed it was all a ploy to draw out the bad guy. So millions of people are dead. There's like, no weight behind this. It's just a thing and I guess we're supposed to be ok with it.

There's also shitty stuff like Jin falling into Asuka's chest in her T5 ending and who knows what else I'm forgetting.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,642
the scene with Anna was absolutely in bad taste and just a poor showing, regardless of the characterizations involved. Its just shitty. The rest of the stuff Im not so sure about. I mean Bison is a murderous, brutal dictator bent on world domination and people love him. Some of these things require an almost pro wrestling like suspension of disbelief because these are not real people in anything resembling real situations.
 

Midgarian

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Apr 16, 2020
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Tekken 6 also has this bizarre plot point where Jin, the hero of the series up until that point, seemingly turned bad and started world war III...only for it to be revealed it was all a ploy to draw out the bad guy. So millions of people are dead. There's like, no weight behind this. It's just a thing and I guess we're supposed to be ok with it.
And here I thought MGS did it first!
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
64,493
You guys really love to harp on typos. My God lol

But back to the topic, yeah that T5 ending would not fly today thankfully. Otherwise, he's a nobody.
 

J-Skee

The Wise Ones
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Oct 25, 2017
11,626
Not discrediting anything you said about Marduk. It's gross. But doesn't Jin Kazama commit genocide around the world?
 

NazoNazoXLR

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Dec 20, 2019
290
I think the fact that I've played Tekken 5-7 but never heard about the sexual assault part of his backstory is probably part of why it's treated like a non-issue. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Tekken staff who didn't know either. It's a fucked up thing and shouldn't have been done.

But as far as anything else goes, being a scumbag is de rigeur for the cast of Tekken, which is literally headlined by the most dysfunctional family in videogames. Even Jin, the "good one" started a global war in the name of... fighting some kinda evil chicken?

Not that it's a total hive of scum and villainy, but even the heroic characters like Lars, Alisa, Asuka, Xiaoyu, often end up doing more comedic action than big day saving.

The villains in Mortal Kombat might be more evil than the ones in Tekken, but the Tekken bad guys are less pleasant. Akuma should've killed Heihachi when he had the chance!
 

Ryuhza

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,728
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Tekken 6 also has this bizarre plot point where Jin, the hero of the series up until that point, seemingly turned bad and started world war III...only for it to be revealed it was all a ploy to draw out the bad guy. So millions of people are dead. There's like, no weight behind this. It's just a thing and I guess we're supposed to be ok with it.

I especially love that said bad guy has never been alluded to before Tekken 6, and after he's dead, nothing really changes beyond what Jin did. You don't even get an idea of what kind of damage the bad guy would have caused VS what Jin actually did. The whole thing was a preemptive mass murder.

Tekken's writing is dumb and careless. I'd forgotten the Marduk interlude in T5, (I think I last played it when I was 13) but seeing it again, it unfortunately doesn't come as much of a shock.
 
OP
OP
TheEchosOfTheCyborg
Feb 24, 2018
6,007
Seriously remove him from the game, I don't give a fuck since I hate the character. I don't think anyone would care honestly. Most of us were surprised he even came back.
People did when he wasn't in Tekken 7, I remember some fans being annoyed at the time when Gigas was seemingly made to be his replacement along with Josie for Bruce and Master Raven for Raven.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,642
People did when he wasn't in Tekken 7, I remember some fans being annoyed at the time when Gigas was seemingly made to be his replacement along with Josie for Bruce and Master Raven for Raven.

Serious question though: Did those people want Marduk back because they are fans of him as a fighting game character, as in they like the way he plays, and not necessarily because of the game's lore? If they brought Marduk back but retconned out the real shitty stuff somehow, would that make a return easier to accept?
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,649
Serious question though: Did those people want Marduk back because they are fans of him as a fighting game character, as in they like the way he plays, and not necessarily because of the game's lore? If they brought Marduk back but retconned out the real shitty stuff somehow, would that make a return easier to accept?

They could have just Josie'd him. Would have been nice to have a big bodied female.
 

Naga

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Aug 29, 2019
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A lot of Tekken characters can sadly be summed up as bad anime archetypes with a director saying behind the writer or artist "make him/her edgier".
 
Jul 25, 2020
749
A lot of Tekken characters can sadly be summed up as bad anime archetypes with a director saying behind the writer or artist "make him/her edgier".

This is why I haven't played Tekken since 5DR. From 6 onwards it just started to feel like Dragonball Z or fan service to an anime series that doesn't yet exist.
 

Deleted member 1102

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah Marduk's a shit character, I hate he came back for T7

Never heard about that Tekken 5 ending before though, jfc what were they thinking
 

Osu 16 Bit

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Oct 27, 2017
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Serious question though: Did those people want Marduk back because they are fans of him as a fighting game character, as in they like the way he plays, and not necessarily because of the game's lore? If they brought Marduk back but retconned out the real shitty stuff somehow, would that make a return easier to accept?


I don't understand what you're saying. There are people who like Marduk for how he plays. There are people who like him because they think his look/backstory are cool. That's ok. People like Darth Vader. Liking villains isn't problematic. It'd be weird if someone like, looked up to Marduk as an inspirational role model, but I've never heard of that ever.

King forgiving him is bizarre, and that Anna scene is terrible, but moralizing about people playing Marduk or connecting this to sexual assault in the FGC seems way off base to me. And again, this is in the context of Tekken, a series where none of the lore makes sense and nobody takes it to heart. I would imagine few even remember the Anna scene. I think this thread puts more thought into Marduk's lore than an actual Marduk fan has in years. They probably don't need to retcon anything, because none of this means anything. Him raping Anna isn't like, a plot point with any weight or consequence to it. That shitty scene says more about where Namco was that it does the Marduk character.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,871
Tekken has a problem with them trying to make you root for that's like " Why did you expect me to like this person" heihachi is one of them. Like I can't fucking believe we get heihachi's perspective in t7 , but not the woman he killed. Like holy fucking shit
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,757
That cutscene is fucking awful. The honest answer is he's probably not redeemable because fighting games have absolutely miserable story lines.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,623
It really bothered me that King befriended Marduk, and Marduk ended up being "good" as a result. Because even after becoming friends with King, he still revels in violence. His character should have went in the direction of his Tekken 5 ending--that is, a rampaging beast who does whatever he wants, because after all, who can stop him? Well, Steve Fox was teased as being the one to stop the rampaging beast, but instead he got relegated to being the third stooge alongside Marshall Law and Paul Phoenix. As was stated in the thread already, if you're not a Mishima or a Williams sister, your relevance in the greater Tekken plot is pretty much nil.
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,087
Fine, can a mod please correct the typo in the title.

I feel you OP. You introduced a heartfelt discussion on an issue that bothered you and you got barraged by dummies who only cared that you mispelled the character's name. I am having similar issues with One Piece and how it increasingly makes light of sexual harassment and sexual abuse, but it's a tough subject to introduce when so many fans get dismissive or defensive.

This is pretty fucked up. Makes me glad I never used this character.

Thanks for bringing this to light.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,147
I wonder how many people played every Tekken and never knew Marduk was a rapist. I sure as hell didn't. To be fair I never played as him though so I only know him as the asshole that killed one of my favorite characters.

Kazuya didn't rape Jun. The anime makes it seem like they were in love, the games say they were drawn to each other, and I think Tekken 7 says in the nicest way possible that they just had a 1 night stand before Kazuya got killed.

Kind of sucks that some people that do know about this don't care.