I don't know what's more sad that your mom believes that or there are people in this thread who believe the moon actually exists.
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My creationist mom: "if evolution is real, how do you explain the MOON?!"
- Thread starter Bentendo24
- Start date
Sure, let me clarify. So most of our literature now or articles that come out online about creation, evolution, or other aspects shy away from commenting on scientific matters.
We're committed to upholding the essential, fundamental truths of the Bible. This includes the truth that God created the universe, life, and man in his image. But when and how he did so is not started in the Bible. We do not agree with the popular consensus that blind chance could create the first life or the vast variety of living things today as Darwinism would suggest. We do, however, believe that evolution occurs within different Biblical "kinds" of living things. However, what a "kind" actually is we do not really know, but we believe it to be a very broad term.
It is up to science to uncover those answers. JWs only require their members to be united on the essential doctrines, not on secondary or tertiary teachings. Case in point, there are many Witnesses who accept the teaching of evolution, but they also believe that it required God to initiate it or even direct it in some way. Their belief in evolution does not invalidate their Christian unity because it is a secondary or even tertiary teaching, not a prime or essential teaching.
HOWEVER, in some cases (perhaps your mom), evolution can still be a buzz word. Some, with the best intentions, still remember or hold to some of the literature which was written in the 80s and what not. Not saying that's the case, but could be a possibility and a misunderstanding.
OP
OP
I think in my mom's case she literally just doesn't know what evolution is and associates anything atheistic with evolution which, as you've said, the two don't have to go hand in hand
Thanks for responding
That's bizarre. Even the most hard-core creationists I've seen have the "kinds" bullshit that they resort to.
Did they think that pugs just sprung onto the earth, perfectly formed? How on earth did they survive?
While true they have recently slowed their scientific commentary they have still in recent times continued on the creation vs evolution crusade. In March 2014 they published an article "The untold story of creation". In 2010 JWs published 2 companion brochures "The Origin of Life - Five Questions Worth Asking" and "Was Life Created?"
These like the older material on the subject are meant to push creationist ideas in the minds of the readers.
This is at least a very rosy and perhaps misleading way to describe the way JWs view differences in opinion about doctrine, teachings, and theology by its members.
What would happen if you spoke to the elders about the idea that the human race is more than 6000 years old. Showed them mountains of evidence of ancient Neolithic cultures that long predate the Bible's own derived date for the creation of "Adam"?
What would happen if you told the elders you didn't believe the flood literally covered the entire planet and killed all life except for what was on the ark? Showed them scientific evidence that proves this to be a physical impossibility?
These sorts of ideas would create problems for you. If you kept it up they could get you shunned by other members.
Even if this is the case and she is spouting old ideas no longer espoused by the JW organization (I believe the leadership DOES still espouse mostly rigid creationist beliefs), they still hold responsibility for hardening the minds of their members against ideas like evolution. The JW organization has for decades and decades released a number of books and articles regarding the origins of the universe and life, all of a poor scientific standard. Theories of abiogenesis and evolution are often (knowingly or unknowingly) misrepresented. Very often citations and sources are misquoted or only quoted in part that betray the intended intention of the source. All this to push creationist ideas while at the same time to belittle theories and ideas of evolution and natural selection.
So dinosaurs lived and died before mankind, and we know of their existence due to the fossils that they left behind...but they're also aliens?
Well, that just sounds like paleontology with extra steps.
The variety of life didn't happen by blind chance though. Maybe you didn't mean that quite as literally as the sentence says, but it's good to be clear about this as that is actually a common misconception about evolution among believers particularly.
So dinosaurs lived and died before mankind, and we know of their existence due to the fossils that they left behind...but they're also aliens?
Well, that just sounds like paleontology with extra steps.
Yeah lol. I dunno why they need to explain it away. Mormons don't even really teach that the earth isn't old or anything (Its hard to say because with the whole "personal revelation stuff" in my experience you randomly run into folks who believe all kinds of shit you never heard of and swear is gospel) so I don't know why he needed to believe that dinosaurs never lived on this planet or why them being building blocks for this planet was satisfying.
As much as I enjoy some of the super funny responses, I mostly feel very sad and also sorry for you. Having a family member that is so "detached" and seemingly also in a mental state where she feels the need to show anger torwards you, because you disagree about her take is bad. Our family had something similar (not related to religion, but still) and this escalated in a way that some of our family members totally detached themselves. Hope you will find a way through that.
No, the Resident Evil devs. It was the only way their future graphics engine logo would have made sense. So they flew the moon up there a year after the universe came to be.
How? Why do you think they are called Capgods?🧐
When I was wanting to debunk creationist arguments I was going through Creationist YouTube to see what kinds of things they believed in.
One of the craziest to me was this one charlatan in particular that I recall combined like 7 wildly things from "star evolution", "abiogenesis", and some others.
From what I recall, he went around the country giving this same talk.
Creationists don't seem to view Evolution as some solitary theory, but rather the foundation of an entire worldview.
Ah, a classic.
I remember the memes. "Tissue's pulled out, another tissue pops up. You can't explain that."
OP
OP
Don't feel sorry. Overall my life is amazing, I love my kind mom, and have only a little bitterness for the childhood I had while still realizing that it made me who I am today and I wouldn't change a thing.
My dad is reasonable enough to keep my mom in check when it comes to indoctrinating my kids, so I'm not terribly worried about that. My kid, like others have said, is also a huge snitch so I would find out with relative ease
OP
OP
I've only met one Witness in my life who didn't believe in dinosaurs and she was an extremely old lady with a very poor education from a poor country. Thankfully I was never taught that dinos didn't exist, since JWs believe (or not as our resident jw says) in a pseudo version of creation that doesn't include earth only existing for six thousand years.
I always recommend just doubling down on the crazy and go one step deeper to make them the ones that feel they are missing out and you are enlightening them. For any lunar conspiracies, simply roll your eyes and say: "So, you are one of THOSE that believes in the moon?" Then walk away.
Hmm, well this guy still doesn't have an evolution, maybe there's something here...
Yet moon stones cause evolution...
OP we have a conundrum
When I was a little kid, I was told that Satan put the fossils in the ground to trick us (my family was part of a very religious, conservative cult). I was maybe 7-8 years old, and still couldn't believe it. The minds of creationists are something else...
Rosy, is probably the right word, and I understand your point. My paleontologist JW friend and I have had conversations exactly about this topic and he himself has experienced it. Him and I both believe the Flood was localized, and that very likely that Adam and Eve lived alongside Neanderthal. People can be very slow to change, and any JW who says we're perfect and know all the answers is being disgenious. There is so much to the scientific world that we have yet to discover. Individuals are always going to have differing opinions on things - some may be more outspoken about them then others. And sure in some cases - maybe an Elder or someone else may think your crazy for believing that or making crazy talk. In my experience you just learn who you can have those conversations with and you can't, some are just more sensiitve and unfortunately close-minded. But at the end of the day - if one JW believes that God used evolution to create living things and one doesn't - that doesn't invalidate their faith in a living Creator (even if one is objectively wrong :P)
Which is why I say as of late we let science do the talking when it comes to the how. The publications in the past were of a poor scientific standard, and unfortunately people that are not scientifically inclined, still hold onto those even though they are vastly outdated on many levels. Which brings it back to the previous quote. Sometimes it's a slow circle.
First thanks for replying! You have a very liberal and non-rigid view of JW theology. As cool as that is, I bet you represent a small minority within the denomination. A lot of people I care about are still JWs and it's my hope that in the future they soften their views on many different things. I fear they will only become more rigid.
You certainly have interesting views for a JW. Thanks for sharing. Hey since this is our second interchange, you can call me a return visit… if you care about that sort of thing ;) hahaha
I don't think your assessment is too far off, but I'd also say that you might be surprised by how many differing views you may encounter among us on that subject. The best kept secret of JWs is that you do not need to believe everything that JWs teach to be a JW lol. And what I mean by that is for a person to get baptized they have to accept the essential teachings. Believing in a Creator who has a personal name and his son Jesus is essential. How he created everything is not. To quote my Paleontologist friend:
"If you personally decided through your own Bible study that evolution is true, that Jesus died on a cross, that mankind is 200,000 years old, or whatever, that's perfectly fine. As long as you apply Christian principles like 1 Corinthians 10:23, 24."
A person wouldnt publicly teach these views, because they aren't fundamental teachings. We try to live our lives by what the Bible says to the best of our ability, because that covers the basis for the moral principles. But science has nothing to do with morals.
Which brings up the secondary aspect of this, which really comes down to each person and what gives them "faith", in relation to the Creation and Evolution topic. Some people take things at face value, others aren't simply ggoing to go off of "because the Bible says so." For my JW Paleontologist, science actually gave him faith in a Creator, and that's because he wanted to search out those answers. Others may be content with a very simple and limited view. And that's perfectly OK- buuuuut that can lead to some frustrating conversations no doubt. Or course this is just my perspective.
Of course! I appreciate the conversation. . Lol and maybe 😄
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