Languid

Member
Jun 2, 2022
68
Love to see it. The same guy who once put an asterisks on everything the Patriots did in 2012.



bleacherreport.com

What Did John Harbaugh Really Mean with Patriots 'Asterisk' Comment?

Nearly six years later, Spygate still hasn't gone away, and I wouldn't expect it to go away anytime soon...

Are you confusing John and Jim? lol

Exactly this is much ado about nothing.

Especially after the massive media contract the B1G just signed, this rings extremely hollow. Highly doubt Michigan is going to throw that away all for Harbaugh's cheating ways.

I mean in this hypothetical world, they would be joining a different conference which would renegotiate their TV contract to add them. They wouldn't be just throwing away the money.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
ryseing

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
USC and Oregon games barely get aired in the West coast.

If you're talking about the failure that is the P12N, that is the very reason USC imploded the conference.

Michigan is the second biggest brand in the B1G but USC will soon be third and Oregon fifth. Obviously in this stupid hypothetical the B1G would lose some TV dollars but it wouldn't be as huge a drop as you are saying.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,599
Michigan
Any talk of Michigan leaving the Big Ten over this is absolute folly and if this is something that the Board of Regents truly did have any level of serious discussion about, then I want every single one of those fuckers gone.

Throwing away your school's entire present and future credibility over a fucking football coach getting caught at the head of a multi-year cheating network, on top of already being under process for prior recruiting violations. I'm genuinely disgusted by all of it, I wanted Harbaugh out years ago so this is all just more water in the bucket for me on that front but the absolutely pathetic display of grandstanding and deflections by the rest of the school's higher-ups has had me seething. I've spent the past year or more feeling ashamed of being a Michigan grad because this kind of shit is now what the nation is going to associate with that name, and knowing that is not something I want to have to answer for for the rest of time. The team was cheating, they got caught for it, take the fucking hit, drop the baggage, and then move on with as clean of a break as you can manage.

This is literally only an issue if the school's heads feel like Harbaugh is literally the only coach capable of putting together a successful program here, and I patently refuse to believe that.
 

Reddline

Member
Oct 27, 2017
190
Any talk of Michigan leaving the Big Ten over this is absolute folly and if this is something that the Board of Regents truly did have any level of serious discussion about, then I want every single one of those fuckers gone.

Throwing away your school's entire present and future credibility over a fucking football coach getting caught at the head of a multi-year cheating network, on top of already being under process for prior recruiting violations. I'm genuinely disgusted by all of it, I wanted Harbaugh out years ago so this is all just more water in the bucket for me on that front but the absolutely pathetic display of grandstanding and deflections by the rest of the school's higher-ups has had me seething. I've spent the past year or more feeling ashamed of being a Michigan grad because this kind of shit is now what the nation is going to associate with that name, and knowing that has me seething.
The era we live in now. Just double and triple down to protect their own and hope it blows over.

In the past for a scandal like this, the school would force the coach to resign particularly with all the overwhelming evidence over years.

As you said, the school is much bigger than a coach. Willing to throw it all away in hopes of getting a very short sighted reward of a potential national title this year sure is something.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,242
For michigan, I think it's just one Bor member that always makes noise (Acker).
 

Keith Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,361
Hell yeah, those Rosenberg type of hyperbolic headlines are the things I crave right now.

Just a quick refresher how we got here...

In 2020 (Covid shortened season), an already embattled Harbaugh went 2-4, and they weaseled themselves out of a likely end of season pounding by Ohio State that almost assuredly would have been Harbaugh's last game. Since then, they've gone 34-3 (not attributing all of this to Stalions, but this is a stunning turnaround to say the least). 2021 was also the year that Stalions started working his "magic." Now, the rest of the Big Ten has extremely credible evidence that Michigan has been brazenly breaking the rules these past few years at the expense of the rest of the league. When confronted with this, Michigan is hellbent on being the victim in all of this. Just delicious schadenfreude for the rest of us.

I understand Michigan's wants "due process," but this is a HIGHLY unique situation that is different from other scandals. The evidence seems to be so overwhelming, and it's literally something that had an affect on week-to-week games. The longer this goes, the worse the scope of the scandal gets. Stalions leaving an absurd paper trail for all of his ticket purchases, being caught in HD on the sideline in disguise against a rival Big Ten team in a game his team wasn't a part of, and also being steps away from the coordinators during games is just an absurdly bad look for someone who is a "low-level recruiting staffer."

Michigan hasn't even denied that they cheated.

I hope this puts everything to an end. It's embarrassing to the entire conference.

Embarassing to the "entire" conference? Pretty sure the rest of the conference isn't feeling 1% of the embarrassment as our teams coaches weren't caught on the sidelines in disguise in games they weren't even a part of. Michigan literally has state legislators writing letters to the Big Ten. UM's meltdown about having to face any type of consequences to the very obvious transgressions is hilarious.

I'm SORRY it's not convenient this ruling came out today. It also was super inconvenient for the rest of us that Michigan apparently was doing something that was directly against the rules for past 2.5 years at the expense of the rest of the league.

The game was aired nationally. The only game MSU aired was UM/MSU.

This is so dumb and not actually worth replying to, but isn't like every game this isn't on the Big Ten Network "national?" If so, this disaster MSU team has had "National" primetime games against Central Michigan, Washington, Iowa, Michigan and they have two more likely barnburners both airing on NBC primetime against Ohio State and Penn State.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
56,528
By all accounts, this isn't over yet either. Hope this thread likes popcorn.
Oh 100% it's not over. They will sue the shit out of the Big Ten in order to get an injunction.


And I hope they win.


I'm a UM fan. But this would be over the top if this happened to Ryan Day. College football could easily use modern day technology like headsets. But they choose to use stupid hand signals and signs.
Exactly. Everytime the vote comes up to have headsets it's always shot down.
 

Smokey_Run

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,740
BIG 10 is trying to get some form of punishment issued because they know he's running back to the NFL as fast as possible when the season ends.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,455
Timothy P. Connors turns out to just be Connor Stalions in EMU gear and some Puma sneakers and the jury is a bunch of busted vacuums.

EDIT: The man wears a bolo tie!

F-n-Za5-Zb0-AASg-DQ.jpg
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,460
Headsets work in the NFL, but they won't work in college. Colleges are using signs to communicate the plays to the entire team after the team is lined up. Unless you want to put them in every helmet...
 

Jerm411

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,729
Clinton, MO
Penn St., Maryland, and OSU are gonna get EVERY flag in their favor now lol….esp. if the injunction is upheld.

I want more, this is already batshit crazy….let's see how crazier it can get.
 

Karl2177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,115
I'm a UM fan. But this would be over the top if this happened to Ryan Day. College football could easily use modern day technology like headsets. But they choose to use stupid hand signals and signs.
There's over 1000 NCAA schools among its 3 divisions, and that isn't including NAIA or NJCAA schools. Cost is the first component of why headsets aren't implemented. The second component is that adding the headset to the helmet may void the warranties of the helmets, which again leads to cost in potentially having to replace hundreds of helmets with ones that do have warranties.
 

Jmanunknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
873
The era we live in now. Just double and triple down to protect their own and hope it blows over.

In the past for a scandal like this, the school would force the coach to resign particularly with all the overwhelming evidence over years.

As you said, the school is much bigger than a coach. Willing to throw it all away in hopes of getting a very short sighted reward of a potential national title this year sure is something.


This is different though its Jim Harbaugh a Michigan alum who despite his flaws is absolutely one of the best coaches in all of football whether it be the NFL or in college. Replacing him would be tough plus with the transfer portal that means a mass exodus of talent if Harbaugh is fired.
 

Languid

Member
Jun 2, 2022
68
Any talk of Michigan leaving the Big Ten over this is absolute folly and if this is something that the Board of Regents truly did have any level of serious discussion about, then I want every single one of those fuckers gone.

Throwing away your school's entire present and future credibility over a fucking football coach getting caught at the head of a multi-year cheating network, on top of already being under process for prior recruiting violations. I'm genuinely disgusted by all of it, I wanted Harbaugh out years ago so this is all just more water in the bucket for me on that front but the absolutely pathetic display of grandstanding and deflections by the rest of the school's higher-ups has had me seething. I've spent the past year or more feeling ashamed of being a Michigan grad because this kind of shit is now what the nation is going to associate with that name, and knowing that is not something I want to have to answer for for the rest of time. The team was cheating, they got caught for it, take the fucking hit, drop the baggage, and then move on with as clean of a break as you can manage.

This is literally only an issue if the school's heads feel like Harbaugh is literally the only coach capable of putting together a successful program here, and I patently refuse to believe that.

You wanted him gone years ago? Why? lol
 

krakenking189

Member
Feb 21, 2021
3,658

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,599
Michigan
You wanted him gone years ago? Why? lol
Because he wasn't performing well enough and in particular was doing very badly at the supposed main strength we brought him in with: developing Quarterback talent. I've been consistently on record about this that I formally turned on him and wanted him gone on the day it was announced that Shea Patterson was going to be transferring to the school, because at that point he'd have been into his fourth year and never successfully recruited a single young QB with enough talent to build around--his entire tenure to that point had been constant grasping at transfers and quick stopgap options and that was my sign that he couldn't handle what was supposed to be his best quality. Ducking Ohio State in 2020 became the cherry on top after an absolutely dismal season.

I of course had to stop actively calling for his firing in following years because he finally started actually accomplishing things, beating OSU, winning B1G titles, recruiting and bringing along some actually talented players, but even during this successful run there's been a number of things that have gone on that I've found distasteful, to say the least. The complete and mindless defense of Bo and refusing to even question his culpability in the allowances given to Dr. Anderson is something that has never sat well with me. The outrage over the tunnel incident with MSU while scuffing Mazi Smith's gun charges under the rug felt intellectually dishonest at best.

...And yeah again, another reason I'm fine with the league coming down on Harbs hard for the Stallions stuff is because he's already still under investigation by the NCAA for alleged COVID-era recruiting violations for being in contact with JJ McCarthy during a period he wasn't supposed to be, an offense which he already sat out three games for and hasn't been considered closed in full yet. For him to already be on thin ice in that case only for these allegations to also spring up and span multiple years of misconduct...and especially for the fact that the timing of this misconduct starting conveniently right at the same time the program very abruptly pulled out of what had been trending into a tailspin...yeah no he's got enough of a history of disrespecting the rules and an unwillingness to take personal responsibility for that disrespect, so I'm absolutely not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

There's literally video of Stallions standing next to the coordinators and speaking to them while the games are going on. You think that can possibly mean the coordinators had no involvement in benefitting from this scheme? And if the coordinators knew, you really think Harbaugh really didn't know and didn't suspect anything? Because...if ignorance is going to be his defense to the point that he's not involved with what the offensive or defensive coordinators are doing...how vital is he really as the head coach?

Again, I refuse to believe that Jim Harbaugh is the only person in the country capable of succeeding as the head coach at Michigan. So no I'm absolutely not willing to accept my school throwing itself into the mud in order for him to walk on us and keep his shoes clean...especially when he's spent several years fishing to leave us for the NFL despite the constant prostrations. And the more I see other people involved in or rooting for the university prioritizing Harbaugh over the university itself, the more it puts me in a darker place regarding my relation to the school I attended. I don't want to be put into a situation of rooting for the team to lose, but holy fuck if that's what it takes for people to wake up and stop making absolute fucking fools out of themselves with some of these mental gymnastic defenses, then so be it.

"Other teams were colluding with each other to steal Michigan's signs!" Don't care, still means we cheated.
"Other teams also steal signs in other ways!" Don't care, still means we cheated.
"Players still gotta play, it really wouldn't have made that big of a deal in the games." Don't care, still means we cheated.
"The computer information that broke this came from some firm that another school hired!" Don't care, if the information they found is accurate, still means we cheated.
"They should really be using radios for this instead of sign-boards anyway." Don't care, still means we cheated.
"Everyone just wants Harbaugh fired so we'll be worse and not keep winning the Big Ten!" Don't care, still means we cheated.

I'm so tired of this shit. Have some fucking dignity and contrition.
 

Languid

Member
Jun 2, 2022
68
Because he wasn't performing well enough and in particular was doing very badly at the supposed main strength we brought him in with: developing Quarterback talent. I've been consistently on record about this that I formally turned on him and wanted him gone on the day it was announced that Shea Patterson was going to be transferring to the school, because at that point he'd have been into his fourth year and never successfully recruited a single young QB with enough talent to build around--his entire tenure to that point had been constant grasping at transfers and quick stopgap options and that was my sign that he couldn't handle what was supposed to be his best quality. Ducking Ohio State in 2020 became the cherry on top after an absolutely dismal season.

I of course had to stop actively calling for his firing in following years because he finally started actually accomplishing things, beating OSU, winning B1G titles, recruiting and bringing along some actually talented players, but even during this successful run there's been a number of things that have gone on that I've found distasteful, to say the least. The complete and mindless defense of Bo and refusing to even question his culpability in the allowances given to Dr. Anderson is something that has never sat well with me. The outrage over the tunnel incident with MSU while scuffing Mazi Smith's gun charges under the rug felt intellectually dishonest at best.

...And yeah again, another reason I'm fine with the league coming down on Harbs hard for the Stallions stuff is because he's already still under investigation by the NCAA for alleged COVID-era recruiting violations for being in contact with JJ McCarthy during a period he wasn't supposed to be, an offense which he already sat out three games for and hasn't been considered closed in full yet. For him to already be on thin ice in that case only for these allegations to also spring up and span multiple years of misconduct...and especially for the fact that the timing of this misconduct starting conveniently right at the same time the program very abruptly pulled out of what had been trending into a tailspin...yeah no he's got enough of a history of disrespecting the rules and an unwillingness to take personal responsibility for that disrespect, so I'm absolutely not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

There's literally video of Stallions standing next to the coordinators and speaking to them while the games are going on. You think that can possibly mean the coordinators had no involvement in benefitting from this scheme? And if the coordinators knew, you really think Harbaugh really didn't know and didn't suspect anything? Because...if ignorance is going to be his defense to the point that he's not involved with what the offensive or defensive coordinators are doing...how vital is he really as the head coach?

Again, I refuse to believe that Jim Harbaugh is the only person in the country capable of succeeding as the head coach at Michigan. So no I'm absolutely not willing to accept my school throwing itself into the mud in order for him to walk on us and keep his shoes clean...especially when he's spent several years fishing to leave us for the NFL despite the constant prostrations. And the more I see other people involved in or rooting for the university prioritizing Harbaugh over the university itself, the more it puts me in a darker place regarding my relation to the school I attended. I don't want to be put into a situation of rooting for the team to lose, but holy fuck if that's what it takes for people to wake up and stop making absolute fucking fools out of themselves with some of these mental gymnastic defenses, then so be it.

"Other teams were colluding with each other to steal Michigan's signs!" Don't care, still means we cheated.
"Other teams also steal signs in other ways!" Don't care, still means we cheated.
"Players still gotta play, it really wouldn't have made that big of a deal in the games." Don't care, still means we cheated.
"The computer information that broke this came from some firm that another school hired!" Don't care, if the information they found is accurate, still means we cheated.
"They should really be using radios for this instead of sign-boards anyway." Don't care, still means we cheated.
"Everyone just wants Harbaugh fired so we'll be worse and not keep winning the Big Ten!" Don't care, still means we cheated.

I'm so tired of this shit. Have some fucking dignity and contrition.
Geeze, imagine writing all this over a tv sport. Like if football really puts you in a dark place regarding a school, I think you need to reevaluate what's actually important.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,599
Michigan
Geeze, imagine writing all this over a tv sport. Like if football really puts you in a dark place regarding a school, I think you need to reevaluate what's actually important.
That's...my whole point. The school right now is allowing one man at the top of the football program to supersede the rest of the institution (as in, what's actually important). I can understand it to an extent because football is big money and brings in a lot to the school...but again, it's the University of Michigan, not the University of Harbaugh. We can live without him.

Also sorry for talking a lot about football in a thread that's explicitly about the football program and what it's been doing.
 
OP
OP
ryseing

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
Geeze, imagine writing all this over a tv sport. Like if football really puts you in a dark place regarding a school, I think you need to reevaluate what's actually important.

/shrug

It's part of the beauty of college sports, lifelong ties to a community. I've cared about my alma mater my entire life and will until I die.

Watching them fail to do an offense this season hasn't put me in a great place.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,455
Geeze, imagine writing all this over a tv sport. Like if football really puts you in a dark place regarding a school, I think you need to reevaluate what's actually important.

You asked the question and got a detailed, thoughtful response and the only thing you can muster is "wow, you actually care?" Embarrassing stuff!
 

hom3land

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
Unlike the Patriots, at least this is a legitimate scandal. As stupid as the rules are, they clearly broke them.
 

Languid

Member
Jun 2, 2022
68
That's...my whole point. The school right now is allowing one man at the top of the football program to supersede the rest of the institution (as in, what's actually important). I can understand it to an extent because football is big money and brings in a lot to the school...but again, it's the University of Michigan, not the University of Harbaugh. We can live without him.

Also sorry for talking a lot about football in a thread that's explicitly about the football program and what it's been doing.


You asked the question and got a detailed, thoughtful response and the only thing you can muster is "wow, you actually care?" Embarrassing stuff!

Watch out everyone, we got a real bodhisattva here

All of this stuff is entertainment. Schools treat this as marketing for their brand. There's no reason whether a school fires or supports a coach for something ultimately dumb should change your relationship with the school that you hold a degree.
 

ProjectPick

Member
Oct 26, 2017
413
There's over 1000 NCAA schools among its 3 divisions, and that isn't including NAIA or NJCAA schools. Cost is the first component of why headsets aren't implemented. The second component is that adding the headset to the helmet may void the warranties of the helmets, which again leads to cost in potentially having to replace hundreds of helmets with ones that do have warranties.

The NFL has had this figured out for 20 years now.

And the Big Ten alone is close to a billion in revenue for football. This shit can go away in a hurry. And the NCAA and P5 conferences are going to get it figured out to protect their cash cow.

The only thing holding it back is having to spread some small time money to everyone. Its assine it hasn't yet, especially for FBS
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,242
One interesting thing I like is how asides from "Michigan men" like Biff Poggi how absolutely hated Harbs is amongst his peers.

The stories Neuheisel told about him during his Stanford days were hilarious.