Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,572
I look forward to seeing how the pitch clock changes the games, I haven't been to a minor game lately so I don't know how that has changed the game much. I actually don't mind the shift rule change. I just see it like how they changed certain offsides and icing rules over the years in Hockey or offisides
Getting rid of the two-line pass was the best changes ever. It really opened up the game.

I actually like most of the changes, but I wish MLB would slowly implement such large changes. IDK why this is all done in the same season. I feel like they should implement one big change per season until they get the game to where they and the players want it.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Good. Baseball is a player's game and there's nothing wrong with that, the product will likely improve tremendously without the focus on overmanagement and strategic shifts. We're all tuning in to watch pitching, hitting and defense, don't really care about a scorching line drive falling right into the glove of the shortstop playing in shallow right field because of some tendency identified by the analytics department.
 

DopeToast

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,295
I love this. MLB finally doing something correct. I've gone to nine High-A games this year with all the rule changes and it feel great. One 9-inning game was 2 hours and 15 minutes. Pace of play feels great, makes you want to stay in the seat more and pay attention.

The shift banning is a much bigger change gameplay-wise, but I think it's a good move. It'll take some time to adjust.

More balanced scheduling, smart playoff expansion, Universal DH (as an NL guy I really didn't want this, but like the shift ban I understand it was time), pitch clock, bigger bases for safety and maybe more steals, etc. Makes me really excited for the future of the MLB. Can't wait for next season.

Now if only TV blackouts ended and one streaming location for all games became the norm I would be happy. And if the Reds can win their first playoff series since 1995.
 

Seanjeezy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
400
Seattle
So it says a minimum of 4 infielders but no maximum, just have your third outfielder play the rover position then have the remaining two play the gaps and put your MIs a foot away from 2nd based on handedness
 

oakenhild

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,983
Pitchers can be just as bad. Go for a walkabout, scratch their nuts, have a spit, stare at the catcher for a minute, shake him off, take forever to set. Every pitch.

I would check the schedule rotation for my triple-A team because there was one starter who was ridiculously slow. His games would take forever so I wouldn't go to the games he started.

Agreed, I recently watched a game where the new pitcher was so fast that the batters got uncomfortable and kept calling timeout to try and slow things down. It was fantastic to watch, an entirely different game.
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,500
So, for the pitch clock, is there any clauses for when pitchcom isn't working as it seems to fail multiple times a game or is the pitcher just going to have to use one of their step offs/take an automatic ball when it breaks?
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,209
Sounds good to me. That pickoff rule (2 attempts only, if unsuccessful on the 3rd it's a balk) will amp up the excitement alot.

Now where are my robo umps?
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,000
I will say we should pour one out for the Nomar Garciaparra of the world, Feels like the bat clock was made specifically for players like him who took like 20 seconds bat routine before being ready for a ptich XD. Drove me friggin crazy.
 

BFIB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,210
Also, pitch clock be damned come the first Yankees/Red Sox game on ESPN. Shit will still be four hours.
 

ceej

Member
Mar 9, 2021
4,526
Reno, Nv.
I'm in a minor league town--pitch clock is amazing. I love it. I watch 160+ games a year on mlb.tv, but those minor league games make those 2001-5 Red Sox / Yankees games seem like getting a root canal.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,421
Baseball is boring to me as it is but I understand the traditionalist argument.

Baseball is a constant and endless duel between pitcher and batter. It's partially a mind game where you're trying to psyche each other out without any kind of time limit. This is partially why baseball players, more than any other, are super fucking superstitious and worry about getting caught up in never ending slumps.

The pitching clock sorta takes away from that.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,873
I will say we should pour one out for the Nomar Garciaparra of the world, Feels like the bat clock was made specifically for players like him who took like 20 seconds bat routine before being ready for a ptich XD. Drove me friggin crazy.
ya boi nomar got nothing on pablo sandoval

www.youtube.com

Pablo Sandoval At-Bat Ritual (Right & Left Side)

Pablo Sandoval of the San Francisco Giants doing his At-Bat ritual from the right and left sides of the plate. Sandoval says the ritual is done for a reason...
 

Yoss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,680
Canada
I really don't like the pitch clock or limiting pick-off attempts. 15 seconds with bases empty? That let's a pitcher shake off one sign maybe? Runners trying to bait pick-off attempts could be interesting I guess, bait the pitcher twice and then take as a big a lead as you want.
 
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GK86

GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,037
So, for the pitch clock, is there any clauses for when pitchcom isn't working as it seems to fail multiple times a game or is the pitcher just going to have to use one of their step offs/take an automatic ball when it breaks?

  • Umpires have sole discretion to direct the start, stop or reset of the timer if the clock operator makes a mistake or a special circumstance applies, such as a catcher not having enough time to put on equipment after running the bases or a medical concern. (They would reset the clock to 20 or 15 seconds).
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,964

RobotHaus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,142
Mars University
I've heard the pitch clock is extremely popular in the minor leagues. Hopefully it will speed up the pace of play in MLB.
The other day Minnesota brought up a minor leaguer to start their game against New York. He was very quick with his pitches, I feel like this is a trend you'll see with a lot of minors called up this season.

As for bigger bases, I'm all for it if it helps with safety and accuracy. I just hope they bring up the double first base idea eventually.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,180
So it says a minimum of 4 infielders but no maximum, just have your third outfielder play the rover position then have the remaining two play the gaps and put your MIs a foot away from 2nd based on handedness

I mean, if you want to bring your outfielder to the infield to quasi-shift, you could do that. You could always bring the outfielders as in as you'd like, right? I think teams don't do that these days specifically because they found it to be more efficient/have higher odds of success to allow infielders to bunch together instead of weakening their OF defense (or asking their OF to field a lot), but that was always available and still is.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,964
That looked like 3 or 4 signs maybe? Guess I'm overestimating how much time they need to go through signs.
They can go through them really quick when they want to. Even guys with tons of pitches could shake off most of them and keep inside the clock

Here's notorious piece of shit Trevor Bauer shaking off his catcher 8 times in 10 seconds before Votto asks for a time-out because he's busy chuckling about all the shake-offs


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlEsCCcFVDW
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,500
As for bigger bases, I'm all for it if it helps with safety and accuracy. I just hope they bring up the double first base idea eventually.
I'd love for a safety base at first, especially if you designed it in a way where the half that is in foul territory is basically just a colored part of the ground (aka completely level with the ground) in foul territory. As then it's easy to treat it as just the normal base when the initial play isn't happening.

It's a base the runner can run through anyway, and the runner should be in foul territory, so why not reduce the odds of players running into each other, and the reduce the chance the player hurts their legs stepping on the base funny while running full speed. Last season the White Sox lost multiple players at first base :/
 
Statement from both Mandfred and Players' Union

Brinbe

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
60,730
Terana
seriously, fuck manfred. leave the damn game alone. the timeclocks and whatever are fine but legislating pickoff attempts and shifts is so fucking dumb. if you have a problem with shifts being too effective then batters should adjust and they have. the answer isn't stupid rules like this.

i really hate this douche. and yes, i know the competition committee implemented it but he's the one spurring all this shit on.


View: https://twitter.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/1568281473467224064
 
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Seanjeezy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
400
Seattle
I mean, if you want to bring your outfielder to the infield to quasi-shift, you could do that. You could always bring the outfielders as in as you'd like, right? I think teams don't do that these days specifically because they found it to be more efficient/have higher odds of success to allow infielders to bunch together instead of weakening their OF defense (or asking their OF to field a lot), but that was always available and still is.

True, I was thinking have your 3rd OF play in that ~200 ft range a la overshift so basically extremely shallow lol.

I'm guessing this rule won't actually impact much because it's basically just a ban of the overshift which really only affected hard grounders pull side. You're still going to see one MI near 2nd base most of the time and the the other MI playing the hole pull side, just not 50 ft into the grass.
 

NightOnyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
882
I've been to a few minor league games this year and have really enjoyed the pitch clock. I still feel like the pitcher has a good amount of time and it keeps the game moving at a decent pace. I only saw one violation and most of the time the pitchers were throwing the ball with plenty of time left on the clock. The MLB pitchers will get used to it and it will make the game a lot easier to watch for most people.
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,105
I really don't get the shift issues. It seems to me that there is an easy way to get defenses to stop shifting, but I would have to see the math on what adds more value...letting a baserunner get a single every time up to bat via some kind of bunt or taking the chance for extra bases even given the shift.
I hate the shift and will be glad to see it gone. Unless left handed batters were allowed to run to third instead of first for a base hit, which obviously wouldn't work lol, it's a fair compromise to have set areas that fielders need to be in.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
20,181
United States
I cannot wait for these changes.

As a Seattle Mariners fan in the Central time zone, I'm very excited to not have 3 and a half hour games that start at 9:10pm my time.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
20,181
United States
I hate the shift and will be glad to see it gone. Unless left handed batters were allowed to run to third instead of first for a base hit, which obviously wouldn't work lol, it's a fair compromise to have set areas that fielders need to be in.
Ya know what, I wouldn't mind if runners were allowed to go the opposite way if no one is on base yet. And then when a player reaches the have to switch to 'normal' base running. So if it is a single you have to move to 1B and a triple has to move to 3B.

Could be kinda neat.

EDIT: This could possibly take away some aspect of shifting organically. Because if you can run to third base, you can't leave it wide open anymore.
 

vodalus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,220
CT
Never realized anyone enjoyed the shift. It doesn't really have a ton of impact on the game one way or another, but infielders playing the outfield never made any sense.
 

boxter432

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
9,601
Never realized anyone enjoyed the shift. It doesn't really have a ton of impact on the game one way or another, but infielders playing the outfield never made any sense.
? it has a huge impact. there are so many grounders up the middle or in between 1 & 2 that are currently outs that won't be if it changes.
everybody is hitting like .230
 
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GK86

GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,037
so is this different than the giant angled no no zone thats being testing right now? so can the SS or 2b still play basically right up the middle just not passing 2b?

From the article and what I have seen online, the restrictions are that there must be two infielders on either side of 2B and that they can't touch the outfield grass. I haven't seen anything that limits there movement within the arc.
 

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,380
i don't know shit about baseball, I'm surprised they are trying to lower game time. Feels like that would result in less commercials or on-screen ad-time. Or is it more that they just have a problem with people thinking the game is too slow/boring?
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,339
Banning the shift is like banning 2-3 or 3-2 Zone in basketball now.

It's a defensive play and its dumb that its being removed.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,000
What's the reasoning behind the shift changes?

The argument is the shift hurts batting average of pullside hitters by basically using analytics to take away the likeliness of a hit that squeaks through the hole. By shifting, you are adding an additional player to cover the area where the player is likely to pull the ball towards and reducing the odds of a basehit, even if it managed to get into the outfield.

As a cubs fan for example, Nico Hoerner has made a few stellar plays recently by playing the shift where he's gotten at least 2 outs at first within the last 2 weeks alone on balls that were basically half way into the outfield because of his position in the shift.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,843
Glasgow
I will reserve judgement over the shift to give teams time to come up with drills and training to overcome the ban, but I think the offensive side of the game is doing completely fine even with it in place.

Other changes seem fine.
 
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GK86

GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,037
i don't know shit about baseball, I'm surprised they are trying to lower game time. Feels like that would result in less commercials or on-screen ad-time. Or is it more that they just have a problem with people thinking the game is too slow/boring?

That won't be affected as much:

  • In between batters, there is a 30-second clock, except for the final out of an inning. The timer for inning breaks and pitching changes is 2 minutes, 15 seconds.
You can check the avg time of play over the years here.

More than a few times I have sat through a four hour long game this year. As much as I love baseball, these games are becoming too long. And players, both hitters and pitchers, doing their little routines in-between pitches really slows down the game.

There are people that think the game has become boring because of the shift. As balls put into play that would have been hits 10+ years ago are now outs. Which has led to the three true outcomes: HR, walk, or strikeout.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
I will reserve judgement over the shift to give teams time to come up with drills and training to overcome the ban, but I think the offensive side of the game is doing completely fine even with it in place.

Other changes seem fine.
Total runs per game have been fine, but the league wide batting average in 2022 is the lowest it's been since 1967 (second lowest since 1909). The game is simply more fun with more people on base and the ability for a more diverse skillset of hitters to succeed. Baseball has become way too focused on launch angle and exit speed, rewarding power hitters precisely because there's no conceivable defense against home runs.
 

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,380
That won't be affected as much:

  • In between batters, there is a 30-second clock, except for the final out of an inning. The timer for inning breaks and pitching changes is 2 minutes, 15 seconds.
You can check the avg time of play over the years here.

More than a few times I have sat through a four hour long game this year. As much as I love baseball, these games are becoming too long. And players, both hitters and pitchers, doing their little routines in-between pitches really slows down the game.

There are people that think the game has become boring because of the shift. As balls put into play that would have been hits 10+ years ago are now outs. Which has led to the three true outcomes: HR, walk, or strikeout.


Woah damn, that chart is pretty telling. Didn't realize the game had slowed down that dramatically.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
There are illegal formations in football tho.
Comparisons with other sports are a waste of time because the degree of control a QB/OL/RB/WR/TE group or a basketball player has over the design, intent and result of a play in order to counter defensive strategy is just magnitudes greater than the control a baseball hitter has over the outcome of an at bat. The shift doesn't make it so a hitter/manager has to think of a gameplan to beat defensive strategy, it just makes it so certain profiles of hitters are inherently more valuable than others. Funnily enough, the guys who have suffered the most with the shift are line drive hitters, and line drives are basically the result of an optimal approach at the plate. What are you going to do, purposely choose not to hit a well struck liner over the second baseman as a lefty because there's someone backing him up in short right field who's going to field the ball cleanly? What does the game gain by that?
 

peteykirch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,883
Does the average length of a MLB game include the commercial breaks, or are they just running the total during "action"?
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,105
Banning the shift is like banning 2-3 or 3-2 Zone in basketball now.

It's a defensive play and its dumb that its being removed.
I don't think the defensive aspects of baseball and basketball are similar enough to make that comparison. Basketball has it's own rules like traveling and goaltending that have no comparable analogy in baseball. I see banning the shift as a more "spirit of the game" rule, like offsides in soccer, where it's meant to improve the flow of the game.